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Clonewheel GAS #2982813 04/01/19 06:15 PM
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stoo schultz Offline OP
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Guys, do you think it would be completely nuts to get a Mojo 61 and use a VR-09 as the bottom manual???

I need a double manual organ, but also lots more sounds, and don't want to lug a bunch of crap around.

I could take the VR-09 to rehearsals, toss it in the back seat with one hand.

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Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: stoo schultz] #2982818 04/01/19 06:28 PM
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Other than the fact that the VR feels NOTHING like the Mojo, why would this be nuts?

The bigger challenge is keeping your setups straight so that you're playing 000000000 when you're wanting to play the VR sounds, and having the VR turned down when using it as a bottom manual.

Sounds like a PITA, but not nuts. wink


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Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: stoo schultz] #2982824 04/01/19 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: stoo schultz
Guys, do you think it would be completely nuts to get a Mojo 61 and use a VR-09 as the bottom manual???

When using the VR09 as a lower manual, would you be looking for it to trigger the Mojo organ sound as opposed to its own? And assuming the answer is yes, are you expecting to use the VR09's drawbars to control that Mojo sound? If this is what you want, it's going to be more complicated than you might expect...


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Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: Sven Golly] #2982825 04/01/19 06:36 PM
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Plus....wouldn't the VR fit on top of the Mojo?? where you could get to its controls?


Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: Tonysounds] #2982842 04/01/19 07:26 PM
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So, other than the fact that it's a PITA and makes no sense, it sounds like a great idea?

I can get a VR-09 for about the same price as a second Mojo manual. I love both of these, but for completely different reasons.

Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: stoo schultz] #2982857 04/01/19 08:17 PM
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I would just buy a cheap MIDI controller with sliders, there's a big chance it'll have better keybed, and will send proper CC messages over USB to control Mojo's lower drawbars.

Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: stoo schultz] #2982859 04/01/19 08:32 PM
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If you intend to use it as I described, another possibility could be Casio XW-P1. The advantage is that you can program it to transmit on any channel you want over any region of the keyboard (four zones), and you can program its 9 sliders to send out whatever MIDI CC you want, and save presets with different MIDI zone and CC configurations, none of which you can do on the VR. Its split/layer capabilities and independent effects controls are better, too. Patch recall from the front panel is better, as is patch recall via MIDI. Both have strong synth sounds. What's the catch? The VR acoustic instrument sounds are better (as is its organ sound, but that doesn't matter if you're using it to trigger a Mojo). And action seems to vary... I've played some nice feeling ones that have a better action than the VR, but I've played others that were annoyingly clacky. One more plus is that it has a nice surface onto which you can place an iPad, and since it has good MIDI controller functions, you can incorporate that to beef up the areas where its sounds are weak.

Another possibility could be the Numa Compact 2X. That also gives you 9 sliders with definable MIDI CC, and has a pretty nice 88 key action with aftertouch. It lags the Casio in synth sounds/functions, easy patch recall, and in being 2-zone vs. 4.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: gg22] #2982863 04/01/19 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: gg22
I would just buy a cheap MIDI controller with sliders, there's a big chance it'll have better keybed, and will send proper CC messages over USB to control Mojo's lower drawbars.

Which cheap midi controller could work as USB host for the Mojo61? You will need to use traditional midi connections.

Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: Kurt W] #2982865 04/01/19 08:45 PM
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Cheap MIDI controller with 9 sliders and standard MIDI could be Behringer Motor61 or Samson Graphite 49. But since he wants "lots more sounds," the boards I mentioned function as controllers but also give him more sounds, and are still low priced.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: Kurt W] #2982896 04/01/19 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Kurt W
Originally Posted By: gg22
I would just buy a cheap MIDI controller with sliders, there's a big chance it'll have better keybed, and will send proper CC messages over USB to control Mojo's lower drawbars.

Which cheap midi controller could work as USB host for the Mojo61? You will need to use traditional midi connections.


I think you got it backwards - you'll want the Mojo61 to be a USB host, and that what it is, one of the very few keyboards with this feature.

Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: gg22] #2982918 04/02/19 12:52 AM
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If you are buying new boards the cost is high enough I would do it right and just spend the extra coin and get a SK2 or SKX. Or check in to a retailer's interest free financing on the difference.


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Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: CEB] #2982925 04/02/19 01:41 AM
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Nektar impact. Novation impulse. Not waterfall keys but i have fun on them .

Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: CEB] #2982933 04/02/19 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: CEB
If you are buying new boards the cost is high enough I would do it right and just spend the extra coin and get a SK2 or SKX. Or check in to a retailer's interest free financing on the difference.


Hammond Suzuki XK5 would be doing it right.

Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: AnotherScott] #2982940 04/02/19 03:46 AM
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Many thanks to you Scott! Great food for thought there.

Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: stoo schultz] #2982941 04/02/19 03:59 AM
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I am very happy with Mojo 61 without a lower manual. It’s taken me about 18 months to adjust the sound and get the settings just right for my taste the Leslie was way over hyped for me. and find the lightweight Amps that sound amazing : a solid-state Fender bass amp for left channel and small tube guitar amp for the right channel. Tone heaven

Last edited by Jazz+; 04/02/19 04:00 AM.

Casio PX-S3000 | Mojo 61 | Fender Rhodes | 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano
Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: gg22] #2982954 04/02/19 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: gg22
Originally Posted By: Kurt W
Originally Posted By: gg22
I would just buy a cheap MIDI controller with sliders, there's a big chance it'll have better keybed, and will send proper CC messages over USB to control Mojo's lower drawbars.

Which cheap midi controller could work as USB host for the Mojo61? You will need to use traditional midi connections.


I think you got it backwards - you'll want the Mojo61 to be a USB host, and that what it is, one of the very few keyboards with this feature.

Well in that case this is a hidden feature of the Mojo61, Crumar specify it like this:
USB Type B for MIDI IN/OUT
USB Type A for software updates
Also checked by connecting a Yamaha CP4 USB B to my Mojo61 USB A, no luck.

Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: bennyray] #2982980 04/02/19 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: bennyray
Originally Posted By: CEB
If you are buying new boards the cost is high enough I would do it right and just spend the extra coin and get a SK2 or SKX. Or check in to a retailer's interest free financing on the difference.


Hammond Suzuki XK5 would be doing it right.


Well the Mojo 61 is 1500 plus the cost of a case and a Roland VR-09 is 1000. That's 2500 plus two cases. The SKK is 3,000. The XK5 is a lot mo' money to come up with and you still don't get the non organ sounds. A SK2 is about 2895 new. That's a good option. But only one set of draw bars.

Anytime I'm at the $2500 price point as a matter of philosophy I take step back and get what I really want. $2500 is a good chunk of change.

Last edited by CEB; 04/02/19 08:59 AM.

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Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: CEB] #2983002 04/02/19 09:43 AM
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It's a duo gig with a jazz singer. We could go two routes: do everything with an 88-weighted board, but lightweight, like a Casio. Or we could go full organ route, but I'd need dual manuals for that. Ideally we'd want to mix it up, some songs only work with acoustic piano for instance, and also do some splits and pads.

Plus another gig with a loud blues-rock band with a lot of Deep Purple and ELP. The VR-09 would probably work for that.

For the singer, the SK-series would probably work for both the organ and the other sounds.

The Mojo 61 is glorious for organ, but it's monotimbral, so no splits with say organ bass and EP top, even with the 2nd manual.

Mojo XT is tritimbral, but not much sound selection. Plus apparently some reliability issues w/ Windows XP?

Currently I have an RD700, a Korg M1 w/Voce V5 and Motion Sound w/Speakeasy. This is old as the hills and just won't cut it for an intimate jazz gig, and the new stuff is so lightweight it's time to upgrade.

Decisions, decisions.

Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: stoo schultz] #2983014 04/02/19 10:28 AM
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How about the DMC-122 with Gemini module? That's probably your best dual manual solution with high quality organ and a good variety of non-organ sounds. (Runner up would probably be Hammond SKX.)

If you end up preferring the idea of a lightweight 88, in your case, I'd probably look at Hammond SK1-88. Or a Numa Compact 2X, perhaps driving an external Gemini module.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: AnotherScott] #2983232 04/03/19 06:12 AM
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Thanks again Scott, you guys are the greatest.

Here's Max taking the GSi/DMC-122 through its paces:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAM1OWsJPjk

And a dedicated Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/962387123793409/

Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: stoo schultz] #2989678 05/15/19 11:55 AM
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So I ended up going for the DMC/Gemini.

Also had a chance finally to play a VR-09: has a horrible keybed, feels like a toy -- now I completely understand Sven's post :-) But some nice capabilities and lightweight, probably great for light gigging/traveling/rehearsals.

The DMC/Gemini is a revelation. Just the tonewheel alone is as inspiring a sound/feel that I've probably ever had in any electronic instrument. The other high-end dual-manuals might give the same experience, but I can't speak for those. This is truly inspiring, easy just to sit and forget the world and play for 1, 2, 3 hours.

Next I need a weighted controller for the piano presets. Will probably use my Casio Privia for that -- but will need to figure out how that weird USB midi out works.

Thanks again Scott and all you guys for the advice.

Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: stoo schultz] #2989847 05/16/19 01:48 PM
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As long as this thread is up, I am going to remind people that the Viscount organ module is available as an option.

I have no dog in the race other than being a satisfied user of a Viscount Legend Solo. I am not sure if the module has all the same features as the solo but as far as I am concerned the sound is excellent.

I have A/B ed the Viscount versus my B-3 at home many times and there is not much if anything missing between the two.

The main thing that interests me about the module would be the ability to use different controllers. I am fairly sure the Viscount module would control dual manuals, but at a substantial price difference compared to the Gemini.

I am one of the people that chose the Viscount Legend over the Crumar Mojo. I chose it because I very much preferred the Key B leslie sim to the 2017 Mojo and because the long decay percussion volume behaved much more smoothly than the Mojo.

I also prefer having dedicated percussion volume knob to the maddening Mojo wi fi editor to change percussion volume. To me that is a no brainer.

Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: LX88] #2989867 05/16/19 03:29 PM
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The Viscount offers an organ; the gemini offers: organ, wurli, rhodes, trumpet, strings, clav, synth, brass, three different acoustic pianos, farfisa, Vox Continental, orchestra, pipe organ, MKS electric piano, DX7 electric piano, CP80, vibes, accordian, violin, flutes, electric bass, upright bass, pads. Also included are three wavetables of new sounds (digital synths from the 80's and 90's being just one of them). Guido also up'd the game with recent enhancements to the organ and leslie and a newly sample Venice Grand Piano. Hence, I would expect to pay a little more for the gemini because you're getting a whole lot more.


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Re: Clonewheel GAS [Re: Delaware Dave] #2990144 05/18/19 12:19 PM
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Plus the Gemini has all the modeling effects you can tweak, on all the presets -- I think it's great value for the money.


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