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#2982484 - 03/30/19 01:39 AM Re: Sad [Re: surfergirl]
Dannyalcatraz Online   content
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Originally Posted By: surfergirl
I want to get this back to Dick Dale, because he deserves our attention. Our band is moving towards more Country and I was wondering if he ever recorded any Country music. His Wikipedia page lists Hank Williams as one of his early influences.

Taking this in a slightly different direction...
Some of the C&W guys flirt with surf on occasion, most notoriously Junior Brown.


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#2982488 - 03/30/19 04:18 AM Re: Sad [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
whitefang Offline
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Odd....

NEVER thought of APACHE as a "Surf" tune. wink Don't think THE SHADOWS did either...

Whitefang
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#2982497 - 03/30/19 07:14 AM Re: Sad [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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@ Fang, On the west coast, we surfers have always considered Apache as a surf tune...there are many more that were not written as surf tunes like Out of Limits, Secret Agent Man, Pipeline, etc.











Notice Apache on the cover of the Ventures album (I think they knew it was a surf tune). I have included video for The #1 Surfing Hit renamed to Pipeline by the original artists after they watched a surfing contest on TV LOL! cool


On the other forum you said you guys back there never thought of Walk Don't Run as "surf music", so here it is on the Surfaris album for you:



cool













Edited by Larryz (03/30/19 11:18 AM)

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#2982501 - 03/30/19 07:42 AM Re: Sad [Re: Larryz]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
+1 on Junior Brown Danny A...check this one out with him and the Beach Boys singing backup on 409!





like
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#2982502 - 03/30/19 07:52 AM Re: Sad [Re: Larryz]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
Here's a little Bo Diddly style surf tune by Dick Dale...he really was a surfer and the surf music he played was from the feeling he got surfing:



ps. I'm pretty sure that's him on the board! I hear a little Tequila (which is also considered a surf tune, one of the tunes I played lead on in my High School Ventures band!) starting at 1:08 and at 2:01! Dick played a lot of instruments including drums. There is quite a little drum solo at the end of this tune. I don't know if it's him on drums, but I wouldn't put it past him! cool

like


Edited by Larryz (03/30/19 01:38 PM)
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#2982546 - 03/30/19 03:48 PM Re: Sad [Re: Larryz]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
Here's a little Bo Diddly style surf tune by Dick Dale...he really was a surfer and the surf music he played was from the feeling he got surfing:



ps. I'm pretty sure that's him on the board! I hear a little Tequila (which is also considered a surf tune, one of the tunes I played lead on in my High School Ventures band!) starting at 1:08 and at 2:01! Dick played a lot of instruments including drums. There is quite a little drum solo at the end of this tune. I don't know if it's him on drums, but I wouldn't put it past him! cool

like



cool like
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#2982573 - 03/31/19 04:42 AM Re: Sad [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
whitefang Offline
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Seems to me, logic would dictate that any tune ABOUT surfing could be called a "surf tune". wink

But, I guess that IS a bit TOO sensible for a Californian! freak laugh wink

That all DID sound a bit like ME claiming ANY song by an African-American artist is MOTOWN. wink Which of course, WOULDN'T be true. smile
Whitefang
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#2982585 - 03/31/19 07:31 AM Re: Sad [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Posts: 11970
Loc: Northern California
@ Fang, re: "Logic", Having lived in California since I was 3 and having started surfing in '63 and playing surf music in a band back in '65 (never as good as Dick Dale or the Ventures), I have a different take on what surf music is than you do. I was living in the not too sensible California actually enjoying those dumb beach party movies with Dick Dale back in '63 when I was 13. I have a pretty good idea of what surf music is. I'm not claiming anything, just pointing out that there are tunes you may not have considered surf tunes that are in fact, surf tunes. You can look up more of the Surf albums tunes for yourself, if you need more truth than the album covers above which include tunes like Walk Don't Run and Apache. cool

ps. Loved those Jan and Dean and Beach Boys songs too back then...


Edited by Larryz (03/31/19 08:00 AM)
Edit Reason: ps.
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#2982586 - 03/31/19 07:55 AM Re: Sad [Re: Larryz]
Larryz Offline
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@ Caevan, like
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#2982595 - 03/31/19 09:30 AM Re: Sad [Re: Larryz]
picker Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
Dick Dale...he really was a surfer and the surf music he played was from the feeling he got surfing:


I went to Navy A School with a guy who knew Dick Dale. From what he told me, he was a champion surfer, and his wife was a prize-winning hula dancer. It seems the family tended towards overachievement as a life philosophy, had to be the best at everything they did. Did pretty well for themselves out of it.
I recall reading that he went through so many JBL 15s in his Dual Showman cabinets that the Fender people eventually stenciled a message inside the cabs telling themselves not replace any more speakers for free.
Now THAT'S pushing 'em hard!
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#2982685 - 03/31/19 10:10 PM Re: Sad [Re: picker]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: picker
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Dick Dale...he really was a surfer and the surf music he played was from the feeling he got surfing:


I went to Navy A School with a guy who knew Dick Dale. From what he told me, he was a champion surfer, and his wife was a prize-winning hula dancer. It seems the family tended towards overachievement as a life philosophy, had to be the best at everything they did. Did pretty well for themselves out of it.
I recall reading that he went through so many JBL 15s in his Dual Showman cabinets that the Fender people eventually stenciled a message inside the cabs telling themselves not replace any more speakers for free.
Now THAT'S pushing 'em hard!


Wow! crazy cool rawk
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#2982703 - 04/01/19 04:31 AM Re: Sad [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11601
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Originally Posted By: Larryz
@ Fang, re: "Logic", Having lived in California since I was 3 and having started surfing in '63 and playing surf music in a band back in '65 (never as good as Dick Dale or the Ventures), I have a different take on what surf music is than you do. I was living in the not too sensible California actually enjoying those dumb beach party movies with Dick Dale back in '63 when I was 13. I have a pretty good idea of what surf music is. I'm not claiming anything, just pointing out that there are tunes you may not have considered surf tunes that are in fact, surf tunes. You can look up more of the Surf albums tunes for yourself, if you need more truth than the album covers above which include tunes like Walk Don't Run and Apache. cool

ps. Loved those Jan and Dean and Beach Boys songs too back then...


rolleyes deadhorse

You DO realize that The Ventures doing a "cover" of "Walk, don't Run", or "Apache" DOESN'T make them "Surf tunes", anymore than The Beatles doing THEIR "cover" of "Till There Was You" ( from "The Music Man") makes It a ROCK TUNE. wink

But it DOES make it a "rock version", so we can surmise that The Ventures "covers" of the aforementioned tunes makes THOSE tunes "Surf versions" of them. I will only concede that far.

The Ventures also did "covers" of both "Slaughter On 10th Avenue"(from the George Balanchine ballet: "On Your Toes" c. 1930's) and "Harlem Nocturne"(by Earle Hagen and Dick Rogers; 1939) which of course, doesn't make THEM "Surf tunes" either. Any more than Stevie Wonder doing HIS "cover" of "Blowin' In The Wind" makes IT a "Motown" song! grin wink

But too, it's all in how some people think(or not). For example....

Because most people know the Memphis born ARETHA FRANKLIN grew up and started her career in Detroit, they're surprised to learn that she WAS NOT and NEVER WAS a Motown artist! shocked

And yeah, JAN & DEAN were pretty cool too. wink
Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (04/01/19 04:34 AM)
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#2982713 - 04/01/19 06:16 AM Re: Sad [Re: picker]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11970
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: picker
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Dick Dale...he really was a surfer and the surf music he played was from the feeling he got surfing:


I went to Navy A School with a guy who knew Dick Dale. From what he told me, he was a champion surfer, and his wife was a prize-winning hula dancer. It seems the family tended towards overachievement as a life philosophy, had to be the best at everything they did. Did pretty well for themselves out of it.
I recall reading that he went through so many JBL 15s in his Dual Showman cabinets that the Fender people eventually stenciled a message inside the cabs telling themselves not replace any more speakers for free.
Now THAT'S pushing 'em hard!



In some of the interviews Dick Dale tells stories about his relationship with Leo Fender. Leo gave him his 1st Stratocaster a brand new '64 model. Dick wanted his music loud and helped Leo develop that 1st 100watt amp. He needed and amp for a gig as his broke down and he talked Leo into letting him use one from the shop (became the 1st blonde Showman covered amp as that's all the material Leo had handy to cover it with LOL!). Leo used Dick to test his equipment. He said if it held up under the Dick Dale test, he knew it would hold up for his normal playing customers! Paraphrasing. D, posted some good interviews above... thu


Edited by Larryz (04/01/19 06:17 AM)
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#2982716 - 04/01/19 06:28 AM Re: Sad [Re: Larryz]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11970
Loc: Northern California
@ Fang, your knowledge of Motown music is much better than your Surf music expertise. You're a little too far out from the beach back there... Python rolleyes gofish

Here's the Ventures doing a Dick Dale surfing tune. It was not a surf tune until Dick got a hold of it. The Ventures put out a ton of surf music and were one of the 1st surf bands out there...many of their covers are considered surf classics...



Edited by Larryz (04/01/19 07:32 AM)
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#2982734 - 04/01/19 09:17 AM Re: Sad [Re: Larryz]
Dannyalcatraz Online   content
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5803
Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Whitefang, would you consider “Miserlou” a surf tune?
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#2982986 - 04/02/19 05:01 AM Re: Sad [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
whitefang Offline
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Nope. Not based on THIS 1927 recording of the ORIGINAL and traditional version.... wink



All I'm trying to get across( and into obviously thick skulls) is that any Dick Dale or Ventures "cover" of much earlier tunes are just "Surf STYLE" versions of them, which doesn't MAKE them "Surf" tunes. And, to ME a song ABOUT surfing is what I'd call a "Surf" tune.

Based on what SOME feel, you'd have to think, based on it, that Walter Murphy's '76 boondoggle "A 5th Of Beethoven" that Beethoven's 5th symphony really IS a "disco" tune! rolleyes
Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (04/02/19 05:01 AM)
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#2983033 - 04/02/19 07:19 AM Re: Sad [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11970
Loc: Northern California
Maybe this Wiki definition of surf music will help the thin skulled among us. Contains a direct quote from Dick Dale on what he thought about surf music (which includes his Misirlou concepts BTW)...but, what would he know about it?


"SURF MUSIC

Surf music is a subgenre of rock music associated with surf culture, particularly as found in Southern California. It was especially popular from 1962 to 1964 in two major forms.[8] The first is instrumental surf, distinguished by reverb-drenched electric guitars played to evoke the sound of crashing waves, largely pioneered by Dick Dale and the Del-Tones. The second is vocal surf, which took elements of the original surf sound and added vocal harmonies, a movement led by the Beach Boys.[9][10]

Dick Dale developed the surf sound from instrumental rock, where he added Middle Eastern and Mexican influences, a spring reverb, and the rapid alternate picking characteristics. His regional hit "Let's Go Trippin'" (1961) launched the surf music craze, inspiring many others to take up the approach.

The genre reached national exposure when it was represented by vocal groups such as the Beach Boys and Jan and Dean.[11] Dale is quoted on such groups: "They were surfing sounds [with] surfing lyrics. In other words, the music wasn't surfing music. The words made them surfing songs. ... That was the difference ... the real surfing music is instrumental."[12]

At the height of its popularity, surf music rivaled girl groups and Motown for top American popular music trends.[13] It is sometimes referred to interchangeably with the California Sound.[14] During the later stages of the surf music craze, many of its groups started to write songs about cars and girls; this was later known as hot rod rock.[15] "


1. Pipeline 0:00
2. Walk Dont Run 2:18
3. Movin 4:23
4. Diamond Head 6:25
5. Yellow Jacket 8:34
6. Surf Rider 11:04
7. Raunchy 13:23
8. Wipe Out 15:55
9. Tequila 19:43
10. Black Sand Beach 23:06
11. Apache 25:19
12. Pedal Pusher 28:10
13. Driving Guitars 30:24
14. Yozora No Hoshi 32:15
15. Hawaii Five-O 34:12
16. Lullaby Of The Leaves 35:55
17. Sleep Walk 37:53
18. The Cruel Sea 40:08
19. Nutty 42:32
20. Bumble Bee Rock 44:36
21. Penetration 47:02
22. Blue Moon 49:06
23. Spindrift 51:19
24. Perfidia 54:22
25. Ten Seconds To Heaven 56:28


cool




Edited by Larryz (04/02/19 12:30 PM)
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#2983081 - 04/02/19 10:47 AM Re: Sad [Re: Larryz]
Dannyalcatraz Online   content
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Registered: 07/28/04
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Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Quote:
All I'm trying to get across( and into obviously thick skulls) is that any Dick Dale or Ventures "cover" of much earlier tunes are just "Surf STYLE" versions of them, which doesn't MAKE them "Surf" tunes. And, to ME a song ABOUT surfing is what I'd call a "Surf" tune.


Pretty sure most of us understand what a cover is. No thick skulls here, just a question of shared terminology.

A lot of people- evidenced by the Dick Dale quote- would not consider as surf music what you do because “real surfing music is instrumental."

Those who feel that way often don’t care if a tune is a cover or not. If it works as a surf instrumental, it’s surf music. It just is to them. I mean, DD knew the origins of “Miserlou”, having heard it in his youth.

It’s similar to when Run DMC covered Aerosmith’s “Walk this way”. Steven Tyler essentially said that that song was a rap tune that came out before rap existed.
_________________________
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap”.

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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#2983098 - 04/02/19 12:13 PM Re: Sad [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
d / halfnote Offline
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Have we all not learned that Thread Derailer will just not stop ?
Steer the thread around & passed...
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#2983225 - 04/02/19 10:39 PM Re: Sad [Re: whitefang]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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facepalm rolleyes deadhorse
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#2983265 - 04/03/19 07:55 AM Re: Sad [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
whitefang Offline
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz

Pretty sure most of us understand what a cover is. No thick skulls here, just a question of shared terminology.

A lot of people- evidenced by the Dick Dale quote- would not consider as surf music what you do because “real surfing music is instrumental."

Those who feel that way often don’t care if a tune is a cover or not. If it works as a surf instrumental, it’s surf music. It just is to them. I mean, DD knew the origins of “Miserlou”, having heard it in his youth.

It’s similar to when Run DMC covered Aerosmith’s “Walk this way”. Steven Tyler essentially said that that song was a rap tune that came out before rap existed.


No thick skulls here, eh?

So how come many DON'T get the gist that I'm referring to a tune's ORIGIN, and NOT the "style" used in COVERING it? I mentioned elsewhere that if B. B. King did a "cover" of Johnny Mercer's 1941 show tune "Tangerine" in a blues "style" that it STILL wouldn't make the song necessarily a "blues" tune. Nor categorize it in the "blues genre". And BTW(and to dispell Tyler's alleged incorrectness)

RAP, in some form or fashion existed LONG before rock'n'roll, jazz, OR even blues. Since the 18th century( and before probably) there was a form that by the late 19th century and mid '60's became known as "talking blues". Bob Dylan wrote a few, as well as Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie BEFORE him, and in ancient Roman times, a "song" wasn't necessarily musically sung, but performed as a recitation(spoken). OR, in other words...

RAP! wink







Whitefang
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#2983267 - 04/03/19 08:01 AM Re: Sad [Re: whitefang]
Dannyalcatraz Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5803
Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Quote:
So how come many DON'T get the gist that I'm referring to a tune's ORIGIN, and NOT the "style" used in COVERING it?


Honestly, I haven’t seen anyone making that mistake. idk

Quote:
RAP, in some form or fashion existed LONG before rock'n'roll, jazz, OR even blues.


While I don’t really disagree that rap is older than people think, I will say that “spoken word musical performances” are not the same as rap. This is not rap, but a jazz fusion spoken word performance:


There is no rhyming or use of vernacular. It’s the author’s spoken words set to music.


Edited by Dannyalcatraz (04/03/19 08:08 AM)
_________________________
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap”.

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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#2983317 - 04/03/19 12:47 PM Re: Sad [Re: whitefang]
d / halfnote Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7635
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz

Pretty sure most of us understand what a cover is. No thick skulls here, just a question of shared terminology.

A lot of people- evidenced by the Dick Dale quote- would not consider as surf music what you do because “real surfing music is instrumental."

Those who feel that way often don’t care if a tune is a cover or not. If it works as a surf instrumental, it’s surf music. It just is to them. I mean, DD knew the origins of “Miserlou”, having heard it in his youth.

It’s similar to when Run DMC covered Aerosmith’s “Walk this way”. Steven Tyler essentially said that that song was a rap tune that came out before rap existed.


No thick skulls here, eh?

While I appreciate the poster's attn to rap
(which, chkn their HISTORY, seems, as SOME might say, QUITE surprising)
there's really only 1 thick skull seen here.

As someone
who's had my own time's of being
on the outside of the mainstream
lemme say that there's
a diff between being opinionated w/some basis for that
& just being a pretentious NOISE
........................
.......................
...............
.......
so
we're going where ?
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#2983328 - 04/03/19 02:02 PM Re: Sad [Re: d / halfnote]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11970
Loc: Northern California
In reverence to Dick Dale and surf music as known by everyone in the surfing world but Fang, I will not be commenting further...
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