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#2980222 - 03/15/19 08:50 AM Re: Law suit between John Wetton's estate, and Eddie Jobson [Re: Rod S]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6222
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: Rod S

I People getting screwed and not being able to defend themselves, people being wrong and still trying to screw the other, people being right and still being screwed because of a judge's decision (very typical here -

1) judges like to favor the little guys while me, representing the american multinational company get ruled over because I'm a big capitalist pig screwing over the poor guy who can't defend himself), and on and on and on and on....

Again, no one here, unless they are directly involved, and if they are, they should keep their mouths shut until it's resolved, know enough to say for sure who's right and who's wrong.


LOL. Its time for a diversion.

I am all for the little guy. Yes, even err on the side of protecting the little guy from the avarice and monied greed of big capitalist pigs.

We have to debate this further, some time. All in good fun wink
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#2980228 - 03/15/19 09:00 AM Re: Law suit between John Wetton's estate, and Eddie Jobson [Re: GregC]
Rod S Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/12/00
Posts: 3171
Loc: São Paulo, Brasil
LOL - my loquacious nature gets the best of me and I talk to much and still miss key points.

Before I get misinterpreted, two points.
(1) Brazilian law is very dysfunctional. Europeans and Americans got berserk trying to do business here; so take comments in that light.
(2) Specific on point, brazilian law is dysfunctional not so much on the big guy (as in large corporations) and the little guy, but often the employer and the employee. The person may have a company that employs 10 people, and he still get screwed because the system tends the employee. This is a generally accepted fact and one of the reasons that drags us behind.
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#2980229 - 03/15/19 09:07 AM Re: Law suit between John Wetton's estate, and Eddie Jobson [Re: Rod S]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6222
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: Rod S
LOL - my loquacious nature gets the best of me and I talk to much and still miss key points.

Before I get misinterpreted, two points.
(1) Brazilian law is very dysfunctional. Europeans and Americans got berserk trying to do business here; so take comments in that light.
(2) Specific on point, brazilian law is dysfunctional not so much on the big guy (as in large corporations) and the little guy, but often the employer and the employee. The person may have a company that employs 10 people, and he still get screwed because the system tends the employee. This is a generally accepted fact and one of the reasons that drags us behind.



Excellent, Rod. Context is everything.

IMO , there is no[or little] " one size fits all ".

I was a small business owner and would be fearful of Brazilian judicial ' bias ' or as you portrayed it. Thanks

And somewhat context related, California is an 'at will employer state'. Which favors
the large corps, who are well funded and have significant legal resources. IOW, I still
have boot prints on my lower back after working in the corporate world for a few decades here { prior to me starting my own small business].


Edited by GregC (03/15/19 09:12 AM)
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#2980232 - 03/15/19 09:28 AM Re: Law suit between John Wetton's estate, and Eddie Jobson [Re: jimkost2002]
AnotherScott Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 13390
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
To those of you taking a neutral position on this subject:
Many of you guys have day jobs, right?
What would YOU do or how would YOU feel if you worked for x amount of weeks or months on a project (or at your regular job) and DIDNT GET PAID?
Would you be so quick to be neutral, egalitarian or to take the employer’s side?

You are assuming that the statements put forth in the story are indisputable facts, and also that there are no other facts supporting a different perspective. For example, have you seen the contract? Do you know whether Wetton himself fulfilled all the stipulations in the contract? Even if Wetton did not get the amount he expected, do we know for a fact that he did not get anything at all? "We know it because it says so in the New York Post" is not really an acceptable answer, especially if you know the New York Post. The point is, every lawsuit sounds like the plaintiff should win, until you see the defense. A jury isn't supposed to make up its mind after hearing only half the case, no matter how persuasive it may seem so far.
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#2980233 - 03/15/19 09:50 AM Re: Law suit between John Wetton's estate, and Eddie Jobson [Re: AnotherScott]
jimkost2002 Online   content
Platinum Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 1204
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
To those of you taking a neutral position on this subject:
Many of you guys have day jobs, right?
What would YOU do or how would YOU feel if you worked for x amount of weeks or months on a project (or at your regular job) and DIDNT GET PAID?
Would you be so quick to be neutral, egalitarian or to take the employer’s side?

You are assuming that the statements put forth in the story are indisputable facts, and also that there are no other facts supporting a different perspective. For example, have you seen the contract? Do you know whether Wetton himself fulfilled all the stipulations in the contract? Even if Wetton did not get the amount he expected, do we know for a fact that he did not get anything at all? "We know it because it says so in the New York Post" is not really an acceptable answer, especially if you know the New York Post. The point is, every lawsuit sounds like the plaintiff should win, until you see the defense. A jury isn't supposed to make up its mind after hearing only half the case, no matter how persuasive it may seem so far.


I’m not assuming ANYTHING from the NYPost, Scott. As a longtime NYC resident, I know it’s garbage.
I’m basing my position thus far on what’s come out from the Wetton Estate.
There have been enough spurious lawsuits that it wouldn’t get this far if the claims didn’t have some merit or if the plantiffs hadnt failed @ other recourses.

C’mon now, really? You’re gonna play it like that? Unless John ghosted the gigs or played the in a sub par manner (doubt it) those speculations are ridiculous from the standpoint of anyone who’s been in this business longer than a year!
I’m totally willing to hear a devils advocate position, but seriously?
And, I am not on the jury, I’m offering my professional perspective only.
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#2980234 - 03/15/19 11:13 AM Re: Law suit between John Wetton's estate, and Eddie Jobson [Re: jimkost2002]
Tonysounds Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 8823
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002

I’m basing my position thus far on what’s come out from the Wetton Estate.



And that's why you're Vehemently denying anyone should be neutral.

It aint over. Not close. Sorry if our NON rush to judgment affects your....what did you call us, butt hurt??.....sense of INTEGRITY.

WHEN did our forum turn into facebook exactly?
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#2980257 - 03/15/19 02:03 PM Re: Law suit between John Wetton's estate, and Eddie Jobson [Re: Tonysounds]
jimkost2002 Online   content
Platinum Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 1204
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Originally Posted By: Tonysounds
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002

I’m basing my position thus far on what’s come out from the Wetton Estate.



And that's why you're Vehemently denying anyone should be neutral.

It aint over. Not close. Sorry if our NON rush to judgment affects your....what did you call us, butt hurt??.....sense of INTEGRITY.

WHEN did our forum turn into facebook exactly?


Actually, Tony, I am not denying anyone should be neutral, but am advising them not to hide behind fake objectivity.
And, to be clear I didn’t call YOU “butthurt” but a paricular respondent who attacked my position and ethics in a way more personal manner.
Again, the responses you mention are not directed to you, as you’ve kept your language focused on the subject at hand and not directed personally.
I will respond in kind always.

Again as I’ve stated earlier “SO FAR, the case put forth by the Wetton estate SEEMS to have the most ring of truth and to be the most plausible”

I also said numerous times: “I hope I’m wrong” or “If I am proven wrong”
I really don’t think I can be more clear than that.


Edited by jimkost2002 (03/15/19 02:12 PM)
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#2980406 - Yesterday at 02:34 AM Re: Law suit between John Wetton's estate, and Eddie Jobson [Re: jimkost2002]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/15/18
Posts: 63
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
...you are espousing is moral relativism ie “whatever is right for YOU is right.”...

Nope. I pointed to your moral relativism, funny you should think of it.

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
...My assesment of this situation is simply that my BS detector went off the charts when I heard about this lawsuit....

Truth determined by jimost2002's "BS detector" .....uh huh.


Exactly how do YOU define “moral relativism”?
Let’s hear it....I havent seen YOUR understanding of the definition stated here....

It does not matter. I was not espousing it. YOU saw it in your own words then flipped it around trying to make it my intent when it was in YOUR words all along. You have lost all rationale in your desperate need to have your point of view validated. Your presentation is flawed. Getting worked up is not going to make it more convincing. Do you care this much about Wetton? It appears that being right and getting people to side with you is your objective here.

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#2980409 - Yesterday at 03:54 AM Re: Law suit between John Wetton's estate, and Eddie Jobson [Re: o0Ampy0o]
jimkost2002 Online   content
Platinum Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 1204
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
[quote=jimkost2002]...you are espousing is moral relativism ie “whatever is right for YOU is right.”...

Nope. I pointed to your moral relativism, funny you should think of it.

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
...My assesment of this situation is simply that my BS detector went off the charts when I heard about this lawsuit....

Truth determined by jimost2002's "BS detector" .....uh huh.


Exactly how do YOU define “moral relativism”?
Let’s hear it....I havent seen YOUR understanding of the definition stated here....

It does not matter. I was not espousing it. YOU saw it in your own words then flipped it around trying to make it my intent when it was in YOUR words all along. You have lost all rationale in your desperate need to have your point of view validated. Your presentation is flawed. Getting worked up is not going to make it more convincing. Do you care this much about Wetton? It appears that being right and getting people to side with you is your objective here. [/quote]

So, I just put your responses to my posts under logical scrutiny.
It would appear from your response here that you are laboring under dynamic projection.
I’ve stated continually that my perspective comes from examining what has been stated publicly in this case against my own 32 years as a professional inthis business.
I, personally, don’t have a dog inthis fight.
For the last time, I have continually used phrases like “If I am proven wrong” “I hope I am wrong”;etc. im my posts here. Yes, I have stated my perspective with passion and conviction, but I dont apologize for that.


Edited by jimkost2002 (Yesterday at 03:55 AM)
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#2980431 - Yesterday at 07:44 AM Re: Law suit between John Wetton's estate, and Eddie Jobson [Re: jimkost2002]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/15/18
Posts: 63
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
...I, personally, don’t have a dog inthis fight....

Then back it up by letting go of this. Your actions indicate that you have something at stake in this. No matter how you phrase things you cannot undo what has already been revealed in your posts.

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#2980534 - Today at 04:50 AM Re: Law suit between John Wetton's estate, and Eddie Jobson [Re: o0Ampy0o]
jimkost2002 Online   content
Platinum Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 1204
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
...I, personally, don’t have a dog inthis fight....

Then back it up by letting go of this. Your actions indicate that you have something at stake in this. No matter how you phrase things you cannot undo what has already been revealed in your posts.


Once Again:
YOU are responding to my posts emotionally and defensively, with texbook dynamic projection.
look it up
I am responsing with logic and real world experience
‘nuff said.

To the forum moderators and other readers of this post:
I debated replying privately to the quoted respondant, but decided to make this, my last, response public in hopes to end the exchange in the most civil manner possible.



Edited by jimkost2002 (11 minutes 40 seconds ago)
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