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#2981414 - 03/23/19 04:43 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: d / halfnote]
whitefang Offline
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Sure. Strict instrumentation requirements spell "limits" and "tunnel vision" to me too. But, if some people wish to designate "bluegrass" as more of a "sound" than a "style", I guess that's what they gotta do. It is the same thing in the "classical" realm. Performances by symphony orchestras ARE limited to specific instrumentation, but nobody is really against other orchestras and/or ensembles making recordings using various different instrumentation. To whit:

No "major" classical musician(and composers in some cases) had any objection to the work by WENDY CARLOS( formerly Walter) and Isao Tomita, both who've done their own takes on "revered" classical works with electronic synth instruments. And as previously mentioned( somewhere), composer Aaron Copeland got a kick out of Keith Emerson's take on his "Hoedown".----

Aaron's---



ELP's---



Whitefang
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#2981443 - 03/23/19 08:21 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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I think it all depends on what you grow up with when you learn to play a guitar. I started with country as that was what my dad played and could show me. I soon moved to the rock and roll music music I loved (i.e. Elvis, Beatles, Ventures, Beach Boys, CCR, 50's and 60's, etc.). I couldn't stand country during my early rock and roll years. Then in the 70's I went to country rock and country. So from about the age of 13 till the age of 20 I messed around mostly in the rock and roll genre. So here is an example of a kid growing up on Bluegrass guitar that Doc posted on another forum awhile back. Has a lot of guitar lead coming from improvisation going for it. It will kind of show off the "style" and give us grownups a good dose of what this little guy grew up on. I guess it's called roots:



So here he is with some of his local boys getting some of that Bluegrass "sound"




cool


Edited by Larryz (03/23/19 08:38 AM)
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#2981452 - 03/23/19 09:27 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: Larryz]
DocPate Offline
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Registered: 01/11/16
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Loc: Virginia
Thanks for bringing Presley up. Great story.

https://www.wataugademocrat.com/mountain...c815609782.html

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#2981464 - 03/23/19 11:03 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: CEB]
DocPate Offline
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Originally Posted By: CEB
As an aside. The father of the Bluegrass dobro is Buck Graves.


Bashful Brother Oswald brought the resonator to the old style mountain music in the late 30s. Along with many of the great Dobro players like Josh, Jerry Douglas he recorded this album:

https://www.amazon.com/Great-Dobro-Sessions-Various-Artists/dp/B000000EYC

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#2981531 - 03/24/19 04:07 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: DocPate]
whitefang Offline
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See my "vent" in the other forum concerning "Dobro". smirk
Whitefang
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#2981576 - 03/24/19 11:45 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: whitefang]
CEB Offline
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Yeah, people who don't play Dobro complain about that sometimes.

And everybody calls the steel a Stevens bar even though many don't use a Stevens brand bar. I usually use a Long Dawg. But I call it a Stevens bar.


Edited by CEB (03/24/19 11:53 AM)
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#2981590 - 03/24/19 02:16 PM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: CEB]
DocPate Offline
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Originally Posted By: CEB
Yeah, people who don't play Dobro complain about that sometimes.


True CEB. I didn't know National was a brand until the 60s.

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#2981658 - 03/25/19 04:27 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: CEB]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: CEB
And everybody calls the steel a Stevens bar even though many don't use a Stevens brand bar. I usually use a Long Dawg. But I call it a Stevens bar.


wink
"Everybody"? laugh crazy

I usually only called it a "bar" if I bothered to call it anything. I doubt that "everybody" called it a "Steven's bar". Probably most who played lap steel or pedal steel guitar, I'm willing to bet. wink

wink laugh
But I'm guessing because when I was in a band, I played Kalamazoo, not lap or pedal steel guitar. wink
Whitefang
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#2981677 - 03/25/19 08:19 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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+1 CEB, I use a Lap Dawg, which is also known as the Steven's Bar. The design is different from the bullet bar used in steel guitar styles for those that like to angle the bar. It has a lifting design on top of the bar which is great for pull offs and for square neck blue grass style dobro players... cool
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#2981764 - 03/26/19 04:06 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Back in "The day"( whenever that was) I remember a lot of guys trying to get that sound by just using their ZIPPO LIGHTERS. wink

I mean, WHY waste money on a SPECIAL BAR, laugh when you got something that works just as well in your pocket? wink
Whitefang
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#2981788 - 03/26/19 08:13 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
You mentioned the Zippo once before (can't remember which thread) and I went out to the garage and found my old Zippo and gave it a try LOL! Since I quit smoking back in '99, I quit carrying it around and having it handy...I have used a long neck Coors bottle for bottleneck style and even my mic stand on stage LOL!

I remember Caevan suggesting the Lap Dawg for my square neck dobro and he was right...I like it best of the different ones I tried and they can be found at a very reasonable price... cool


Edited by Larryz (03/26/19 08:13 AM)
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#2982011 - 03/27/19 11:56 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: Larryz]
d / halfnote Offline
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Here's a Q I have...
This thread's abt "BG gtr".
Doc, a staunch traditionalist, has suggested that, despite his own title for the thread, the gtr was not originally a lead instrument in the style.

Leaving aside that contradiction here's my Q:

Did the dobro come to prominence as a way for bands lacking a fiddler to mimic that sustained, pitch-bending sound ?
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#2982197 - 03/28/19 08:23 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: d / halfnote]
Larryz Offline
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d / halfnote, I don't think the dobro was meant to fill the fiddler void and probably came into prominence because it added a whole new sound to the genre. It would be more like adding the pedal steel to Country IMHO. Another plus, was it could keep up with the banjo and violin for lead work volume. +1 I do hear that pitch bending comparison to the fiddle though and I remember the banjo also had a little pitch bender tuning machine knob. The poor old guitar and mandolin have a hard time keeping up on the volume front until they get into the mic... cool
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#2982204 - 03/28/19 08:51 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: Larryz]
DocPate Offline
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CEB has already mentioned Josh Graves who was the first to bring the resonator guitar to Bluegrass.

"The Dobro was introduced to the bluegrass line-up in the 1950s by Josh Graves of Flatt & Scruggs, who used the Scruggs picking style on the Dobro, and that is still the way it is popularly picked. Bluegrass players typically tune their dobros to GBDGBD" (Bluegrass History)

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#2982338 - 03/28/19 09:13 PM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: DocPate]
CEB Offline
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I spend the vast majority of my time in open G but I've taken to putting a 58 phosphorous bronze string on the bottom so I can drop it E ( E B D G B D ). That gives me both full major and minor grips and some really neat voicings. A standard 56 will work but it's a little floppy.


Edited by CEB (03/28/19 09:16 PM)
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#2982357 - 03/29/19 03:41 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: DocPate]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
CEB has already mentioned Josh Graves who was the first to bring the resonator guitar to Bluegrass.


And that was MY point in all this mish-mash. That not ALL resonator guitars are DOBROS. Guys in here kept referring to the Dobro as if it was another instrument altogether, and not a brand of resonator . And remember... things do change over time. For instance...

There was a time(a LONG time too!) that the guitar wasn't a part of ANY jazz band, the BANJO put to use in them( Louis Armstrong's Hot House Five) before the guitar was ever considered. And how long WAS it before any COUNTRY/WESTERN band employed a guy beating on a DRUM KIT?

Take this scene from '65's movie YOUR CHEATIN' HEART. about Hank Williams. Dig what RED BUTTONS is playing! wink

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#2982369 - 03/29/19 06:18 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: whitefang]
CEB Offline
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They are called Dobros because that is the vernacular. That is just the way it is. People down here call all cola Coke also.

The Bluegrass guys played Dobros because Dobro had the spider bridge and Tricones and biscuit bridges sucked for Bluegrass. I play a Recording King and Beard dobros.


Edited by CEB (03/29/19 06:22 AM)
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#2982389 - 03/29/19 07:53 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: CEB]
Larryz Offline
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+1 CEB, the Dobro was invented in 1929 and was not used in bluegrass until the 50's. They were invented to make the guitar louder without using an amp (not for slide). They were discontinued in 1941 due to WWII as the metal was needed for the war effort. Mosrite bought the name for awhile. Later in the 90's the name was bought by Gibson. People started calling them Dobros a long long time ago and it became the generic term that it is today. You just can't use the logo. The resonator designs have changed now and then...but we pretty much call all of them dobros. I have a buddy who has played one bottle neck style for many decades and he always wants me to call one a resonator...The original idea is a similar idea to the archtop guitar (i.e. being used to increase volume in jazz bands). cool
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#2982402 - 03/29/19 10:13 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: Larryz]
DocPate Offline
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Us country folks couldn't pronounce Dopeyra so we just called them Dopros or Dobros.

grin

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#2982491 - 03/30/19 04:50 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: DocPate]
whitefang Offline
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
wink sure.....

We ALL know "DOBRO" is a mish-mash of DOPEYRA Brothers. wink grin

DOpeyra---BROthers. Hence... laugh "DOBRO" wink

Just like the toy company HASBRO was founded by....

The HASsenfeld BROthers! wink
Whitefang
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#2982518 - 03/30/19 09:30 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: whitefang]
CEB Offline
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Dopeyra Brothers.... Sounds like a bunch of Yankees.
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#2982575 - 03/31/19 04:57 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: CEB]
whitefang Offline
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Actually, all 10 Dopeyra siblings were mostly Slovakian. However, the name DOES remind me of DUPA, the Polish word for one's backside(buttocks). wink
Whitefang
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#2982590 - 03/31/19 09:14 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: whitefang]
picker Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
wink sure.....

We ALL know "DOBRO" is a mish-mash of DOPEYRA Brothers. wink grin

DOpeyra---BROthers. Hence... laugh "DOBRO" wink

Just like the toy company HASBRO was founded by....

The HASsenfeld BROthers! wink
Whitefang


Did Hasbro ever make a Dobro? Seems a shame if they didn't!
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#2982594 - 03/31/19 09:28 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: picker]
DocPate Offline
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There is a Leg o Strat

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F236x%2F11%2Ffd%2Fce%2F11fdcee463dc083f3c8b89d6e62014ce--lego-guitar-guitar-art.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Far6027%2Flego-guitars%2F&docid=ePJJre9Vf9ug0M&tbnid=mtnjgCnZzZGcEM%3A&vet=1&w=236&h=415&hl=en-US&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim

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#2983162 - 04/02/19 04:39 PM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: Larryz]
d / halfnote Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
d / halfnote, I don't think the dobro was meant to fill the fiddler void and probably came into prominence because it added a whole new sound to the genre. It would be more like adding the pedal steel to Country IMHO. Another plus, was it could keep up with the banjo and violin for lead work volume. +1 I do hear that pitch bending comparison to the fiddle though and I remember the banjo also had a little pitch bender tuning machine knob. The poor old guitar and mandolin have a hard time keeping up on the volume front until they get into the mic... cool


I wasn't suggesting that the overall use of the Dobro was to fill a void except in the cases of bands lacking a fiddler...
....BTW, are you talking abt the tuner for the high drone string on the banjo ?
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#2983209 - 04/02/19 08:28 PM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: d / halfnote]
Larryz Offline
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No d / halfnote, here's an example of the banjo, fiddler and dobro trading the leads and bending notes. I wasn't talking about the drone string up top on the banjo, I was talking about the 2nd string down lower. I'm not sure if the banjo can use this type of bending tuner on more that one string, but I noticed it in this clip being used down on about the 2nd string at 0:14:



cool




Edited by Larryz (04/02/19 08:42 PM)
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#2983261 - 04/03/19 07:27 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Larry, I've seen Earl do that trick on several TV shows and such over the years. And it's always amazed me that he turns that string back in tune with NO NEED to take any extra time to carefully make sure! shocked

I'd have to stop everything for at LEAST a half-minute to get it properly back in. grin

And it warmed my heart to see that MARTHA WHITE flour poster in the back. My wife made the BEST biscuits ever and insisted on only using that brand of flour! wink
Whitefang
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#2983271 - 04/03/19 08:25 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Larry, I've seen Earl do that trick on several TV shows and such over the years. And it's always amazed me that he turns that string back in tune with NO NEED to take any extra time to carefully make sure! shocked
I'd have to stop everything for at LEAST a half-minute to get it properly back in. grin


Adrian Legg does that on his Ovation, which has been fitted with banjo tuners. I thought it was a special sort of tuner which gives you an exact half step down or up with a quick quarter turn. So presumably a fine tuning aspect is included.
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#2983295 - 04/03/19 10:56 AM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: Scott Fraser]
CEB Offline
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Scrugg tuners. Now most use Keith tuners, his take on the same principle. The tuners have setable stops just like string benders or a drop d-lever do on guitars. I used to think Flint Hill special was on the 1949 record and Earl did that before he invented the tuners ..... But I was wrong. He is good but he didn't do that.


Edited by CEB (04/03/19 10:59 AM)
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#2983318 - 04/03/19 12:57 PM Re: Bluegrass Guitar [Re: CEB]
d / halfnote Offline
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Specifically in ref to LarZ's clip posted above
& CEB's comment (? Bill Keith ?)
what's the deal w/those tuners ?

Are they set to specific intervals ?

I'll look for my owm info
but mebbe ya can shorten the trip..... grin
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