Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Topic Options
#2978046 - 03/01/19 01:33 PM Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7665
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Close listeners & viewers will note this is not Van's studio musicians from that era.
They may also consider that VM, while a stellar writer, singer & stage performer, is not known for his gtr skills, which usually exhibit a certain rough-hewn, heavy on the strum, character.

Here he plays an actual gtr solo that shows something deeper that I've never seen nor heard elsewhere (yet),
He plays fills throughout but the section 3:20~6:05 is really informative, I think.
I esp like the moment when he decides that the gtr pick has got to go !
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
GP Island
#2978306 - 03/03/19 03:10 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: d / halfnote]
whitefang Offline
10k Club

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11666
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I don't know when Van's performance in d's clip was recorded, but looks to be MANY a moon ago.

This, from less than a year ago, shows how he looks these days, and too, he wisely let someone else do the solo... wink

_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2978352 - 03/03/19 09:36 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 12009
Loc: Northern California
Reminds me of the Elvis comeback special for some reason LOL! I know I can bore both of you guys by the mention of his name but:



Elvis and Van were not great guitar players but that didn't stop either one of them from breaking one out and plugging in. +1 d, Van was not know for his guitar playing. Elvis letting Scotty handle the solos was a good thing for Elvis much the same as Fang's comment on Van letting someone else handle the solo. Guitar playing is not their claim to fame but I like to watch them both do it anyway. I think Van did a great job in Fang's clip of singing and playing. In d's, clip I think Van's got his action a little too low as I hear a lot of fret buzz going on with or without the pick...But it shows Van knows a little about noodling around on a guitar and improvisation. Both of these artists hear something in the guitar that helps them in their craft.


Another example could be Ricky Nelson relying on James Burton to handle his solos. Ricky played acoustic guitar chords to a lot of his tunes but James was better equipped to make him sound better in the early days...I won't post the clips as they can be found on YouTube. I never heard Ricky take a solo though...


Another example could be Merle Haggard or Waylon Jennings or Willie Nelson or Ray Benson. I have heard all four take solos and they do a fair job of it. Yet, for the most part they have some very talented lead men take the solos when they perform many of their tunes. Merle is fantastic at writing great tunes and melodies using simple chords like C F and G on a guitar. I saw him live on stage just before he died and he could play and sing quite well without the band. Some others that can sing and play leads as good as any that I have seen on stage are Glen Campbell and Marty Stuart. Jerry Reed comes to mind...some of these guys are great guitarists and some are not. I think they all love the guitar though... cool



Edited by Larryz (03/03/19 09:44 AM)
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2978359 - 03/03/19 10:35 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: whitefang]
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7665
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: whitefang
I don't know when Van's performance in d's clip was recorded, but looks to be MANY a moon ago.

This, from less than a year ago, shows how he looks these days, and too, he wisely let someone else do the solo... wink


The entire point is how rarely VM might take a gtr solo. facepalm
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2978360 - 03/03/19 10:38 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Larryz]
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7665
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Reminds me of the Elvis comeback special for some reason LOL! I know I can bore both of you guys by the mention of his name but:



Elvis and Van were not great guitar players but that didn't stop either one of them from breaking one out and plugging in. +1 d, Van was not know for his guitar playing. Elvis letting Scotty handle the solos was a good thing for Elvis much the same as Fang's comment on Van letting someone else handle the solo. Guitar playing is not their claim to fame but I like to watch them both do it anyway. I think Van did a great job in Fang's clip of singing and playing. In d's, clip I think Van's got his action a little too low as I hear a lot of fret buzz going on with or without the pick...But it shows Van knows a little about noodling around on a guitar and improvisation. Both of these artists hear something in the guitar that helps them in their craft.


Another example could be Ricky Nelson relying on James Burton to handle his solos. Ricky played acoustic guitar chords to a lot of his tunes but James was better equipped to make him sound better in the early days...I won't post the clips as they can be found on YouTube. I never heard Ricky take a solo though...


Another example could be Merle Haggard or Waylon Jennings or Willie Nelson or Ray Benson. I have heard all four take solos and they do a fair job of it. Yet, for the most part they have some very talented lead men take the solos when they perform many of their tunes. Merle is fantastic at writing great tunes and melodies using simple chords like C F and G on a guitar. I saw him live on stage just before he died and he could play and sing quite well without the band. Some others that can sing and play leads as good as any that I have seen on stage are Glen Campbell and Marty Stuart. Jerry Reed comes to mind...some of these guys are great guitarists and some are not. I think they all love the guitar though... cool


The entire point is that VM is not known for his gtr playing.
HOWEVER as demonstrated herein, he was a skilled player, which puts him in a diff category than yer hero El The P.

Let's at least stick to the point, ppl.
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2978450 - 03/03/19 03:32 PM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: d / halfnote]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 12009
Loc: Northern California
I'm sticking to the point d,

Elvis, just like Van (and some of the others that I mentioned) is also not known for his guitar playing and like Van, they leave the solo playing to their usual lead guitar and studio players. While a few of the others I mentioned, are known for their guitar playing and singing and take quite a few leads. I think my "hero El the P" plays the guitar better than Van does (as demonstrated herein) but that's just my opinion and wasn't really what I was talking about...ppl.

ps. Van Morrison is also one of my heroes... cool


Edited by Larryz (03/03/19 08:40 PM)
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2978526 - 03/04/19 04:58 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
10k Club

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11666
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Yep, I've heard(and seen) Elvis do some decent pickin' (on his '68 Singer special), and we do get the "point" about Van rarely too, doing any guitar solo work.

And it's not that unusual for some artist, known mostly for one thing, to step out and give that a try. Like Dylan's "solo" (being kind here wink ) on "Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat" from the BLONDE ON BLONDE album. freak
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2978604 - 03/04/19 11:58 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: whitefang]
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7665
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Unklike Van, El (The) P wasn't a paricularly skilled gtr player (he was much better at gospeliah pno).

How abt saying something abt Van's playing ...
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2978609 - 03/04/19 12:09 PM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: d / halfnote]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 12009
Loc: Northern California
I'm wondering if you just saw the picture of El (The) P and forgot to read my post? I did say something about Van's playing to wit:

"I think Van did a great job in Fang's clip of singing and playing. In d's, clip I think Van's got his action a little too low as I hear a lot of fret buzz going on with or without the pick...But it shows Van knows a little about noodling around on a guitar and improvisation. Both of these artists hear something in the guitar that helps them in their craft." cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2978618 - 03/04/19 12:49 PM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Larryz]
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7665
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Maybe that's what happened but I was a bit annoyed at the insertion of Presley, etc, in a thread where ge just doesn't fit.
EAP was a great interpretive singer & played pno OK but if you think EP's comparable to Van as a guitarist that's as off base as yer continual insistence he's the King/Inventor of Rock & Roll. rolleyes
[Please don't start !]
----------------------------------
I'd suggest that one review the clip of "Mystic" & notice that Van's not just directing the band w/ physical cues & by what he's playing on gtr but he's actually singing some of the stuff he plays, a sure sign that it was not simply noodling.

One might audit this stylistically similar track
& wonder how much he directed the playing of soloists on his studio efforts
but perhaps even played some of the solos, not just on the jazzier things but on the simpler rock tracks....or at least wrote the main riffs. idk



_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2978668 - 03/04/19 04:52 PM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: d / halfnote]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 12009
Loc: Northern California
Depends on what your definition of "simply noodling" is. I have seen a ton of great jazz players noodling/improvising while singing the notes as they go...many are taught to sing the notes as they play them. It's like what you hear in your mind and singing it can help you play it...I don't know what Van has in mind when he plays, but I know he can write some very cool stuff...Moondance is one of my favorites! cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2978718 - 03/05/19 03:33 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
10k Club

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11666
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Y'know, by my observation (audible), nice as that tune always was, nobody really made too much of a big deal about it until the Glen Close character in the '89 film "Immediate Family" kept playing it over and over.

THEN all of a sudden, it became Van Morrison's "greatest" song! rolleyes
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2978735 - 03/05/19 06:37 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: whitefang]
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7665
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
If you sing & play the same thing, that by definition is focused & therefore not noodling .
Originally Posted By: Larryz
I think Van's got his action a little too low as I hear a lot of fret buzz going on with or without the pick

Maybe...or is it just a metallic-slightly distorted sound from that Orange amp ?
( &who uses those for acoustic gtr ?)



Edited by d (03/05/19 07:20 AM)
Edit Reason: insertion & removal of text simultaneous w/the following post's appearance
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2978739 - 03/05/19 07:14 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: d / halfnote]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 12009
Loc: Northern California
@ D, In the clip of his live performance you posted, he appears to be noodling to me. I do it much the same way he does. I do not know if he ever played those licks before and they didn't appear to be rehearsed. If they were found on one of his records or in another performance, they could still have come from noodling. Noodling is how I write licks and they simply disappear like most improvisation. Certain licks tend to stick however and come out when playing live with other musicians as in the clip with the piano player improvising as well. Noodling can include both old licks and new ones combined. I'm not "tryna back-loop" whatever that is...


@ Fang, I never saw the movie and liked the tune at least 10 years or more prior to '89. It was jazz invading rock and roll and I liked it the 1st time I heard it. I still play and sing it and love improvising over the chords. It's one of those tunes that I like to throw in a little bit of the melody line in my improvisation... cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2978743 - 03/05/19 07:21 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Larryz]
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7665
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Now me back-looping... facepalm ...but to reiterate
Originally Posted By: d
If you sing & play the same thing, that by definition is focused & therefore not noodling .

You cannot sing the same thing yer playing while playing randomly.
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2978745 - 03/05/19 07:31 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: d / halfnote]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 12009
Loc: Northern California
Yes d, you can sing and play randomly, here's a sample:



try the intro and then skip to 2:50, then skip to the ending while "back looping"...the lyrics fit too: "we tried to talk it over, but the words got in the way."



cool


Edited by Larryz (03/05/19 07:49 AM)
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2978768 - 03/05/19 10:34 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Larryz]
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7665
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Despite what yer tryna to claim, if one is playing & vocalizing the same parts, that is, de facto, not random noodling.
To insist that's not true is simply illogical.
Improvising can be unfocused but, to quote a phrase, it ain't necessarily so.
Coordinated improv is focused but still improvising.
rolleyes
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2978782 - 03/05/19 11:36 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5332
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Another example could be Merle Haggard or Waylon Jennings or Willie Nelson or Ray Benson.


Sorry to veer off topic here, but I just want to point out that Willie is a very accomplished guitarist, not at all just an accompanist to his singing. He really plays.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2978789 - 03/05/19 12:02 PM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Scott Fraser]
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7665
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Actually a welcome, if indirect return to the point, kinda sorta...
& here's Mr Nelson in a pairing seldom seen (or heard) that proves yer point.


& another more expectable pairing which vaguely suggests a jazzy Mexicali/flamenco take on a standard


One thing I find similar to the original Van (The) Man clip we started with is that, while a less adventurous vocalist than Morrison, Nelson's gtr work usually has a meditative quality similar to the opening clip.
[BTW, after listening to the Nelson/Cash track I wondered if Willie's maybe a fan of jazz bassist Miroslav Vitous...or if Vitous just digs country pop tunes.
The lick is inherent in the song's tune but compare the minor/diminished lick Willie uses a few times in "Ghost Riders" w/ what happens here at 2:47 ! grin ]


But to wind up back on Willie Nelson, dig this---
His incorpration of passing chords, bent notes & casual but extremely effective flourishes is truly something beyond "noodling".
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2978832 - 03/05/19 04:49 PM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 12009
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Another example could be Merle Haggard or Waylon Jennings or Willie Nelson or Ray Benson.


Sorry to veer off topic here, but I just want to point out that Willie is a very accomplished guitarist, not at all just an accompanist to his singing. He really plays.


I never said otherwise Scott...nor did I say anything about Willie just noodling d (although I can sing and noodle at the same time and I won't bore you with more jazz clips). Here' the sentence in context:

"Another example could be Merle Haggard or Waylon Jennings or Willie Nelson or Ray Benson. I have heard all four take solos and they do a fair job of it. Yet, for the most part they have some very talented lead men take the solos when they perform many of their tunes."

and "Some others that can sing and play leads as good as any that I have seen on stage are Glen Campbell and Marty Stuart. Jerry Reed comes to mind...some of these guys are great guitarists and some are not. I think they all love the guitar though... "


Willie is definitely an accomplished guitarist, he also has a special voice that is a favorite of mine going back to his Red Headed Stranger album that I was listening to back in '75. He's not as good as Jerry, Marty or Glenn on guitar IMHO, but that in no way suggests he's not good at guitar. The others I mentioned are quite good on guitar as well... cool



Edited by Larryz (03/05/19 04:57 PM)
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2978879 - 03/06/19 03:36 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
10k Club

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11666
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I've done what BENSON does, and it can be a lot of fun.

Mind you, I never did as GOOD as Benson, but y'get the drift.... wink
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2978916 - 03/06/19 07:08 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: whitefang]
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7665
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
As a final comment (from me at least) on Nelson, I think his thoughtful expressiveness puts him ahead of many who may have flashier skills.

FWIW, after a week of searching I've not found another clip of Morrison soloing on gtr, (though many on sax), which seems kinda odd.
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2978937 - 03/06/19 08:15 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: d / halfnote]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 12009
Loc: Northern California
@ Fang, in Jazz it's called "scat." +1 I'll never be any kind of comparison to Benson at it LOL! Here's another guy who is very good at it and could keep up:



@ d, Van Morrison finally got the Grammy he deserved for the Moondance album. He's credited as the "rhythm guitar" player. Nothing wrong at being a rhythm guitar player. I admire singer songwriters like Van as guitar gods. They put the melodies and lyrics to those chord patterns that they come up with.


cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2978940 - 03/06/19 08:20 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Larryz]
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7665
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
"Scat" = a most unfortunate term when the alternate meanings are considered.
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2978944 - 03/06/19 08:42 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: d / halfnote]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 12009
Loc: Northern California
When hunting, you always look for fresh scat and follow the tracks...not sure if that's what they had in mind when calling it scat that though LOL! cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2978947 - 03/06/19 08:54 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5332
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Larryz
I never said otherwise Scott...


Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were, just that Willie is so good as a player that he doesn't really fit the category of singer songwriters who just accompany themselves on rhythm guitar, like Van Morrison.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2978965 - 03/06/19 09:52 AM Re: Van (The) Man Morrison plays a gtr solo [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 12009
Loc: Northern California
No problem Scott, I knew what you were getting at and agree in many ways. Back in my country rock band days we played a lot of Willie, Reed, Haggard, Jennings, Williams Sr., Williams Jr., Daniels, and several others. They are all great artists and some like Willie can play his own guitar leads quite well. I admire singer songwriters and their guitar work like Harrison, Simon, Dylan, Croce, Taylor, Morrison, etc., even if some of them are not the greatest lead guitar players or improvisors they have other guitar playing talent working with chords and rhythms. Loggins and Messina come to mind also... cool

ps. and a Happy St Patricks Day to Van Morrison and U2! cool


Edited by Larryz (03/06/19 07:30 PM)
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top


Moderator:  A String, Bluesape, myles_rose