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#2976998 - 02/22/19 07:56 AM For You Cream Fans
Delta Offline
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Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 339
Loc: Ormond Beach, FL
A "Music of Cream" tour will be hitting the eastern part of the U.S. this spring, including The Peabody in Daytona, which is about 10 miles south of me. I plan on going. The group consists of Will Johns (Eric Clapton's nephew), Malcom Bruce (Jack's son) and Kofi Baker (Ginger's son). The few reviews I've seen have been good. They did some warm up tours last year. Here's a set list from one of the shows they did at the Garde Arts Center in Connecticut.

Set 1:

NSU
Outside Woman Blues
Politician
Badge
Sleepy Time Time
Deserted Bities
Strange Brew
Pressed Rat and Warthog
SCLABR

Set 2:

I'm So Glad
Crossroads
Born Under a Bad Sign
White Room
Sitting On Top of the World
Sweet Wine
Toad
We're Going Wrong
Sunshine of Your Love

Encore:

Spoonful


Edited by Delta (02/22/19 08:57 AM)
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#2977000 - 02/22/19 08:12 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Delta]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11970
Loc: Northern California
Very Cool Delta! Keep us posted on how well they covered Cream after you attend the concert! They have some great material to work with and it's good to hear that they are getting some good reviews! cool
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#2977003 - 02/22/19 08:41 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Larryz]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
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Loc: Near Phoenix Az
For me it was Hendix, The Beatles, and The Cream. They were my very favorites among the 60's rock bands. So I would love to see a video or DVD or whatever of that band just to see how well they do. I won't attend a concert of them in a big venue, but I would surely enjoy some You Tube clips or whatever.
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#2977013 - 02/22/19 09:32 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: desertbluesman]
d / halfnote Offline
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Hmmmm...no "Anyone For Tennis?" ?
I'd take that over "Wart Hog".

As a young teen I liked Cream immensely at the time.
In retrospect that's been tempered---but not negated--- by the recognition of what they really were.






Kinda like a sometimes OK bar band idk
(That's a ref to this outfit, not the orig )


Edited by d (02/22/19 01:20 PM)
Edit Reason: clarification
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#2977021 - 02/22/19 10:15 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5319
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: d
Kinda like a sometimes OK bar band idk


Kinda, sometimes. Lacking the frisson which continues (for me) to make the original so thrilling.
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#2977080 - 02/22/19 06:00 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Scott Fraser]
desertbluesman Offline
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Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Yep they are not The Cream but kudos to them for the descendants to keep The Cream spirit/music alive...
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#2977106 - 02/23/19 04:09 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: desertbluesman]
whitefang Offline
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Posts: 11601
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I think it adorable the the only guy( that I can EVER recall) who puts the word "the" in front of the band name is DBM.

Most of us( and the BAND too...) simply called them "Cream". wink

I once had a band that was named simply MAGIC LAMP. Easy 'nuff one might think, but our keys player's cousin( bitch!) insisted on callin' us THE Magic LAMPS! With an "S"! mad I suppose since so many bands DO have "The" as part of their names( with another exception of HERMAN'S HERMITS wink ) it's easy to place it in front of all of them...

Anyway.....

I'm just surprised( considering what the '60's were like, and for musicians in particular) that any of those guys had ANY progeny they're willing to admit to( facepalm ) so their output might be pretty interesting.

And BTW too....

I wouldn't mind seeing "Take It Back" in that playlist too. wink
Whitefang
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#2977133 - 02/23/19 08:50 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: desertbluesman]
d / halfnote Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7635
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
I think it adorable the the only guy( that I can EVER recall) who puts the word "the" in front of the band name is DBM.
Most of us( and the BAND too...) simply called them "Cream".
I suppose since so many bands DO have "The" as part of their names it's easy to place it in front of all of them...

In the case of this band, I think the "The" was an intentional reference to their individual status as some of the leading instrumentalists at the time of their formation, hence my re-adoption of it here.

Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
Yep they are not The Cream but kudos to them for the descendants to keep The Cream spirit/music alive...

I think the recs of the orig band does that, esp w/the phenomenal success Clapton's maintained.
I think that these cats intend to do so...but in the worst way, i.e., as a money machine.

The Cream were talented players who made some truly great music (though I find that more in their less celebrated tracks/ see below).
They achieved that despite their internal disagreements & lack of cohesion.
They were also one of pop music's most blatant attempts to get over on image rather than substance, sadly ironic when contrasted w/Clapton's alleged reason for leaving the Yardbirds.

1966 music vid / can you spell"Monkees" ?


concurrent TV clip


2 sadly ignored Clapton tracks
True to his original inspirations *


Great gtr & vox (gotta love how he sometimes says "womens")


A later version, to compare his development


----------------------------------------------------------------

* Cat Squirrel / The original, early 1950s


1961 version which is prolly the 1 EC heard
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#2977167 - 02/23/19 12:08 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: whitefang]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4973
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Originally Posted By: whitefang
I think it adorable the the only guy (that I can EVER recall) who puts the word "the" in front of the band name is DBM.
"The" Beatles, "The" Jimi Hendrix Experience" "The" Buffalo Springfield.

It is because they were "The" Cream of the crop, they just dropped "of the crop". I was a big fan back in the day I read everything I could about them and when we and others talked about them we used "The" Cream....

Thanks for the "Adorable" comment. In actuality I am a homely old Geezer.......

cheers
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#2977174 - 02/23/19 12:54 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5319
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: d
They were also one of pop music's most blatant attempts to get over on image rather than substance, sadly ironic when contrasted w/Clapton's alleged reason for leaving the Yardbirds.


What? What?
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#2977181 - 02/23/19 02:04 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: desertbluesman]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11970
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
Originally Posted By: whitefang
I think it adorable the the only guy (that I can EVER recall) who puts the word "the" in front of the band name is DBM.
"The" Beatles, "The" Jimi Hendrix Experience" "The" Buffalo Springfield.

It is because they were "The" Cream of the crop, they just dropped "of the crop". I was a big fan back in the day I read everything I could about them and when we and others talked about them we used "The" Cream....

Thanks for the "Adorable" comment. In actuality I am a homely old Geezer.......

cheers


You are not the only guy according to Wiki DBM:

"Baker and Bruce put aside their differences for the good of Baker's new trio, which he envisioned as collaborative, with each of the members contributing to music and lyrics. The band was named "Cream", as Clapton, Bruce, and Baker were already considered the "cream of the crop" amongst blues and jazz musicians in the exploding British music scene. Initially, the group were referred to and billed as "The Cream",


cool


Edited by Larryz (02/23/19 02:05 PM)
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#2977184 - 02/23/19 02:13 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Scott Fraser]
d / halfnote Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7635
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: d
They were also one of pop music's most blatant attempts to get over on image rather than substance, sadly ironic when contrasted w/Clapton's alleged reason for leaving the Yardbirds.


What? What?

Yep.
Note I really liked them as a young person & still like much of their catalog.
For a while I even fell under the sway of the "noble, dedicated blues aficionado" aura that Clapton picked up when he left the YBirds. [More on that later]
As I grew, however, & came to realize more abt how the music bidniz actually worked & works, I gradually came to understand Ahmet Ertegun's evaluation of much The Cream's music as "psychedelic hogwash".

I think that Clapton, who even before the band formed was the focal point, was under the sway of Robert Stigwood & saw an opportunity to bank big on the band.
That also applied to the mktg dept of Atlantic/Atco & their young producer Pappalardi, who had a significant hand in shaping their breakthrough album DISRAELI GEARS.
Clapton had no apparent compunction, for example, in copping Albert King licks (hey everybody swipes licks) or even letting such material be turned into a "new" composition as in "Strange Brew".

Note that when a magazine review popped the bubble of their fanbase, Clapton (who says he actually fainted when he read said review) packed the band in immediately & joined "down homers" Delaney & Bonnie.

He also has been quoted as pointing out that during what many consider his single greatest solo ("Crossroads" on the WOF alb, the band was playing so loudly & w/such little interplay that he actually lost the timing of the song & played an entire chorus on the wrong beat !

Anyhow, while I still respect EC, in particular, as well as Jack Bruce (Baker maybe less), throughout his career Clapton's actually made several decisions based on commercial choices that he could've gone differently on.
One example is the work that he did in the 1980s/90s era w/ Phil Collins was sent back by his then current label as "too experimental" & promptly redone.

As for his famous quitting the YBirds over the commerciality of "For Yer Love", when one reads bios of EC, it kinda looks like he, as a young cat, already beclouded w/ fame, simply wanted to take a holiday.

He's a great player but a real traditionalist in outlook who seldom has stretched himself in the way of Hendrix or Beck.
I'd love to post a wonderful example of him doing something diff, playing w/Anoushka Shankar at a Geo Harrison tribute (I once posted it here, some may recall) but I've been unable to relocate that clip om You Tube.

I know some won't agree but I wonder if they can't accept that heroes are like the rest of us & sometimes they're just human, too.
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#2977188 - 02/23/19 02:28 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: desertbluesman]
d / halfnote Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7635
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
Originally Posted By: whitefang
I think it adorable the the only guy (that I can EVER recall) who puts the word "the" in front of the band name is DBM.
"The" Beatles, "The" Jimi Hendrix Experience" "The" Buffalo Springfield.

It is because they were "The" Cream of the crop, they just dropped "of the crop". I was a big fan back in the day I read everything I could about them and when we and others talked about them we used "The" Cream....

Thanks for the "Adorable" comment. In actuality I am a homely old Geezer.......

cheers

On this topic, note the The Beatles, as a corporate entity, always spell it w/ a capital "T"...The Beatles.
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#2977210 - 02/23/19 04:12 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
surfergirl Offline
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Registered: 12/12/17
Posts: 181
Loc: Waialua, Hi
I just went back and watched Anouska Shankar's part on the Concert for George DVD. It has been a few years since I watched and I only remembered Jeff Lynn playing, but this tims I did see Clapton. Now I am watching Monty Python which followed Anouska.

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#2977256 - 02/24/19 03:42 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: surfergirl]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11601
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Summarily( and a bit of deadhorse ) None of their LPs noted them as "The" Cream.

And I never claimed all those other bands you brought up LARRY, as NOT requiring "The" be included in their names. Just that CREAM, as well as several other bands( Like MY band that I mentioned) DIDN'T necessarily contain "The" as part of the band's name. Like---
They WEREN'T known as "The" Frost; "The" Guess Who; "The" Fleetwood Mac; "The" Grand Funk Railroad, "The" Canned Heat or "The" Ten Years After. wink

In fact, I don't recall ANY band I was in as having "the" as part of the name( Tempus Fugit; Electric Heat; Skidmark, Post-Natal Drip, etc.) wink
Whitefang
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#2977271 - 02/24/19 06:50 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11970
Loc: Northern California
You have me confused with someone else Fang...I didn't bring up any other bands. You should go back and see who you are wishing to direct your comments to. I only brought up "The Cream" as DBM is not the only one who referred to them that way. Again, according to the Wiki article "Initially, the group were referred to and billed as "The Cream",
. While you are spanking your donkey, you should know that I got your point as my buds always referred to them without the "The". I still refer to The Beatles with the The and The Ventures with the The and the Doors with the The...It's not that big of a deal IMHO. cool
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#2977272 - 02/24/19 06:56 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: desertbluesman]
GregC Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6303
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
For me it was Hendix, The Beatles, and The Cream. They were my very favorites among the 60's rock bands. So I would love to see a video or DVD or whatever of that band just to see how well they do. I won't attend a concert of them in a big venue, but I would surely enjoy some You Tube clips or whatever.


Here, here. The cool kids would write +1 but that's understated.

My older brother [who is 78] and I attended Cream and Frank Zappa concert in Chicago. 1968.

50 years ago. We still talk about that concert.

Great times. Good pot. $5.50 concert ticket.
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#2977309 - 02/24/19 11:20 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: GregC]
d / halfnote Offline
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On the advice of my attorney (& in an effort to get away from the question of To "The" or Not To The), lemme expand the premise of my earlier take on (The) Cream as a commercial enterprise.

Clapton supposedly left the YBirds b/c they were going commercial.
Played w/ John Mayall for a while but Mayall was both a domineering bandleader & even more of a traditionalist than Clapton, so he quit that band too.
Meanwhile the YBirds started making a lotta money (at least for their record company) & garnered considerable fame & critical kudus for their expansion of pop song formula & the playing of Jeff Beck.

Over in the USA, bands like Paul Butterfield's w/Mike Bloomfield & the band The BluesProject were starting to cause a stir mixing jazz & stretched-out blues.
What to do ? idk

How abt form a band built on that same idea but smaller & using some English cats w/ heavy reputations as jazzers !
& if they wanna throw in some hip poetics or psychedelic stuff, OK, I'll just play gtr & reap the benefits of where the market's going.


As said before, I was a big fan as a kid & over time EC gradually got better & better but in retrospect Cream was as commercial an idea as "Oh, My Michelob, You Look Wonderful Tonight".



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#2977328 - 02/24/19 12:57 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11970
Loc: Northern California
To Thee or not to Thee LOL! roll
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#2977369 - 02/24/19 06:16 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
GregC Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6303
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: d
t
As said before, I was a big fan as a kid & over time EC gradually got better & better but in retrospect Cream was as commercial an idea as "Oh, My Michelob, You Look Wonderful Tonight".




humor ? [above].

Here is what EC said about the commercial :
"I was a practicing alcoholic when I made that commercial," Clapton told Rolling Stone in 1988. "I was actually in treatment in Minnesota when that came on the TV. I was in a room full of recovering alcoholics, myself being one of them, and everybody went, 'Is that you?' I said, 'Yep.' What was I going to say? It was me when I was drinking."
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#2977379 - 02/24/19 07:18 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: whitefang]
Delta Offline
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Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 339
Loc: Ormond Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: whitefang
Summarily( and a bit of deadhorse ) None of their LPs noted them as "The" Cream.

And I never claimed all those other bands you brought up LARRY, as NOT requiring "The" be included in their names. Just that CREAM, as well as several other bands( Like MY band that I mentioned) DIDN'T necessarily contain "The" as part of the band's name. Like---
They WEREN'T known as "The" Frost; "The" Guess Who; "The" Fleetwood Mac; "The" Grand Funk Railroad, "The" Canned Heat or "The" Ten Years After. wink

In fact, I don't recall ANY band I was in as having "the" as part of the name( Tempus Fugit; Electric Heat; Skidmark, Post-Natal Drip, etc.) wink
Whitefang


You're accurate on all but one Fang. It was The Guess Who. I know, I'm Canadian. 🇨🇦😎🎸
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#2977382 - 02/24/19 07:26 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Delta]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4973
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Sometimes "The" prefacing a band name is more important than others just imagine saying to a non fan, I am going to go see "Guess Who" tonight and the response from that non fan would be "I give up. Who?" So prefacing the band name with "The" is common sense truthfully.

Besides this is the USA we have freedom of speech here Fangster.

The first amendment below.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

Therefore Fangster "The" Cream. Well protected by the first amendment.

twothumbs
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If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2977414 - 02/25/19 02:46 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: desertbluesman]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11601
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Yeah. I was just speaking from a position of one who had to personally deal with that crap( I told that earlier). Not only did that BE-YOTCH add "The" to our band's name, but too, put an "S" at the end! shocked
Changing the simple MAGIC LAMP to "THE" MAGIC "LAMPS"!

And then you had to go "facebook" everything up with the "freedom of speech" tripe. and cry about all your "rights" and stuff. But too, that IS purely "American"(assuming we have the "right" to do as we wish concerning anything and anywhere), so let's let it go. I do suppose that so MANY band names DO start with "the" that to slap it onto EVERY band name is hard to resist. wink

and BTW: That cousin of our keys player then suggested we change our band name to something like "The" TRUE TONES, or, "The" SWEET SOUNDS or some such crap. I said, "We can't do that until someone invents a TIME MACHINE to send us back to 1955!" THAT was a long walk home! wink
Whitefang
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#2977449 - 02/25/19 08:25 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: whitefang]
desertbluesman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4973
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
I once was in a band (which I) named See Weed. Prefacing that band name with "The" would have been pretty weird as well. Some band names don't lend themselves to the addition of "The" in the beginning, some do.
_________________________
dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2977467 - 02/25/19 10:37 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5319
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: d
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: d
They were also one of pop music's most blatant attempts to get over on image rather than substance, sadly ironic when contrasted w/Clapton's alleged reason for leaving the Yardbirds.


What? What?

Yep.
Note I really liked them as a young person & still like much of their catalog.
For a while I even fell under the sway of the "noble, dedicated blues aficionado" aura that Clapton picked up when he left the YBirds. [More on that later]
As I grew, however, & came to realize more abt how the music bidniz actually worked & works, I gradually came to understand Ahmet Ertegun's evaluation of much The Cream's music as "psychedelic hogwash".

I think that Clapton, who even before the band formed was the focal point, was under the sway of Robert Stigwood & saw an opportunity to bank big on the band.
That also applied to the mktg dept of Atlantic/Atco & their young producer Pappalardi, who had a significant hand in shaping their breakthrough album DISRAELI GEARS.
Clapton had no apparent compunction, for example, in copping Albert King licks (hey everybody swipes licks) or even letting such material be turned into a "new" composition as in "Strange Brew".

Note that when a magazine review popped the bubble of their fanbase, Clapton (who says he actually fainted when he read said review) packed the band in immediately & joined "down homers" Delaney & Bonnie.

He also has been quoted as pointing out that during what many consider his single greatest solo ("Crossroads" on the WOF alb, the band was playing so loudly & w/such little interplay that he actually lost the timing of the song & played an entire chorus on the wrong beat !

Anyhow, while I still respect EC, in particular, as well as Jack Bruce (Baker maybe less), throughout his career Clapton's actually made several decisions based on commercial choices that he could've gone differently on.
One example is the work that he did in the 1980s/90s era w/ Phil Collins was sent back by his then current label as "too experimental" & promptly redone.

As for his famous quitting the YBirds over the commerciality of "For Yer Love", when one reads bios of EC, it kinda looks like he, as a young cat, already beclouded w/ fame, simply wanted to take a holiday.

He's a great player but a real traditionalist in outlook who seldom has stretched himself in the way of Hendrix or Beck.
I'd love to post a wonderful example of him doing something diff, playing w/Anoushka Shankar at a Geo Harrison tribute (I once posted it here, some may recall) but I've been unable to relocate that clip om You Tube.

I know some won't agree but I wonder if they can't accept that heroes are like the rest of us & sometimes they're just human, too.


Yes, music business is in fact a business, & everybody in it wants to make some dough, but in an industry riddled with manufactured & carefully manicured acts, to refer to Cream as one of the most blatant attempts to get over on image rather than substance is to completely overlook Backstreet Boys, Spice Girls, The Monkees, etc etc etc. The substance was that they wrote & played every note of it & significantly changed popular music, at least for awhile. The image part, I don't know what one could point to that supports this. They were never groomed to be the cute, cuddly, boy band every teen girl wants to swoon over. Maybe I'm not getting what you mean by substance & image in the context of pop music.
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#2977514 - 02/25/19 05:03 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: GregC]
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7635
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: GregC
Originally Posted By: d
t
As said before, I was a big fan as a kid & over time EC gradually got better & better but in retrospect Cream was as commercial an idea as "Oh, My Michelob, You Look Wonderful Tonight".




humor ? [above].

Here is what EC said about the commercial :
"I was a practicing alcoholic when I made that commercial," Clapton told Rolling Stone in 1988. "I was actually in treatment in Minnesota when that came on the TV. I was in a room full of recovering alcoholics, myself being one of them, and everybody went, 'Is that you?' I said, 'Yep.' What was I going to say? It was me when I was drinking."


Yeah I was mashing them up (as they exist in my memory ) but I don't think EC's proclivities matter here.
He did thos as commercial tie-ins to tours, etc. ---&-at least in one case, maybe to make some money for his buddy JJ Cale.
They're just illustrations of Clapton's willingness to make money from music in ways that many of us might not think, given his long-term image as a dedicated, "pure" musician.

There's nothing wrong w/ commercial music or music being used in commercials (although I was taken aback a bit recently when I heard "blowing In The Wind" used in an ad during the Sooper Snooze Bowl).
That's really why most of us got into music---to make money !

I just think it's worth recognizing that that's what's often the case when we look back at our heroes & think there was something more there than really was (although at least sometimes there was /is pure artistic motive).
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#2977516 - 02/25/19 05:39 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Scott Fraser]
d / halfnote Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Yes, music business is in fact a business, & everybody in it wants to make some dough, but in an industry riddled with manufactured & carefully manicured acts, to refer to Cream as one of the most blatant attempts to get over on image rather than substance is to completely overlook Backstreet Boys, Spice Girls, The Monkees, etc etc etc. The substance was that they wrote & played every note of it & significantly changed popular music, at least for awhile. The image part, I don't know what one could point to that supports this. They were never groomed to be the cute, cuddly, boy band every teen girl wants to swoon over. Maybe I'm not getting what you mean by substance & image in the context of pop music.


Maybe, SF, but in the air of those times ---& for many continuing since then--- (The) Cream are sorta sacrosanct w/ no one considering the marketing that I suspect went into that band....& I'll admit that this is a fairly new recognition for me, though one that's been building for a while.

If we recall there was, during the 1960s, a very real line many drew between entertainment & "art".
Hendrix often wound up on the wrong side b/c of his showmanship...although I think in the long run it's clear that his music & compositions were amoungst the best of that era.
[& I still can remember the sheer power of that 1-b5-1 in the intro to "P Haze" when I 1st heard it...as well as the (then not understood) #V chord change in "R U Xperienced"]
Similarly the Monkees still get short shrift even though a surprising amount of their music was actually creative (please see concurrent Peter Tork thread).

I have no disparaging arrows to throw at "commerciality", really---heck, let's not forget even Zappa did a lotta blatantly commercial stufF & the intertwining of art & commerce far predates modern pop music.
It might be argued that "All Ya Need Is Love" was the supreme case of the 2 being blurred beyond separation.
I just think it's best if ppl recognize that sometimes what they view through the haze of nostalgia is not what they think it is.

I've been thinking abt a new thread considering the continuing clamor over not just oldies acts but dead-in-their-grave-oldies act (I note that Experience Hendrix has a tour going on now) when most of the ppl that go to see such shows would never have gone to see a resurrection of extremely good 30 ~ 50 year old jazz back in the day when everything was all new & modern rolleyes despite much of it being not-that-at-all.

How's a young musician, today, supposed to get traction when alla the cash is being thrown at marketing gambits such as we're yakking abt here ?

BTW, a quick chk seems to show tix for the Cream Redux costing more than the Xperience Hendrix shows by as much as 30% in some venues--even w/ cats like Dweezil Z & Joe Satriani & Eric Johnson being part of the latter show !
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#2977672 - 02/27/19 04:15 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
whitefang Offline
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In the Dylan song "Tombstone Blues" is the line---
"Stop all this weeping. Swallow your pride/You will not die, it's not poison."

It applies here a bit because we have to remember. Most of these recording "artists" struggled to get where they got in an effort to SELL RECORDS, and not to necessarily promote any kind of "art". Remember too, the phrase "Starving Artist" wasn't pulled out of anyone's ass. And too, although I can't recall just who said it, one guy from a '60's band when questioned about his band's( also forgotten) "lowering" itself to "commercial" levels said, "The aim wasn't to "lower" us to any "commercial" level, but to RAISE the level of what "commercial" IS." wink I thought that was pretty good. Just wish I could recall WHO IT WAS! cry
Whitefang
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#2977693 - 02/27/19 08:38 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: whitefang]
d / halfnote Offline
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The fact that (The) Cream may've been started (or developed during DISRAELI GEARS & their touring) w/a focus on commercial success is not an inherent criticism nor a denial that much of their music was worthwhile.
It's merely a recognition that they weren't what they seemed at the time...or to many, still.
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#2977698 - 02/27/19 09:11 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
Scott Fraser Offline
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But the big difference between Cream & the industry manufactured commercial bands was that Cream had the actual substance, & that's where I disagree with you about image over substance statement regarding them. Bay City Rollers, yes, because they didn't bring the goods. Cream did. Also, as far as starting a band from scratch with the intent to gather the best talent available, that's exactly what Crosby, Stills & Nash was, and for that matter, Led Zeppelin, as well as Jeff Beck's first solo venture with Keith Moon & Rod Stewart.
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#2977706 - 02/27/19 10:00 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Scott Fraser]
d / halfnote Offline
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Hold on Scott, I never said (The) Cream lacked substance.
They undeniably created much great music, as I've emphasized already.
I only made the point that, contrary to what many (self included) thought at the time (& some still do) they were never all abt the music & that however we might parse it (Stigwood + Baker > Clapton & Bruce idk ) they might be cited as a case where commercial interests overtook & eventual killed the band.
The part abt how Clapton selected what he thought might be the best players* (as you allude to re: CSN, etc) is a bit beside the point.

[ * & he really had to convince Bruce & Baker to play together since they'd already built up deep animosity]
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#2977734 - 02/27/19 01:34 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
desertbluesman Offline
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All I can say about the Cream band. Is that they had a fire in their live playing and on the Wheels Of Fire album, that is rarely matched, even to this day. The animosity between them made for a competitive spirit that may have been unpleasant between them, but the results were stunning to me back in those days. To this day one of my most favorite cuts is Crossroads from Wheels Of Fire, smokin hot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE9HvSdcaL4
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#2977740 - 02/27/19 01:56 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: desertbluesman]
d / halfnote Offline
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They were stunning to me as well, DBM, they really seemed to be blowing things up & while I still today think some of their stuff's phenomenal, as I became a more developed player myself,I came to realize that onstage they were playing at the same time more than they were playing as a cohesive unit.
Even beyond that I kinda think they (along w/ others) took credit for songs that shoulda gone to others, & let's face it a blues afficianado as deep as Clapton knew it.

As for the live "Crossroads" see my earlier comment taken from Clapton himself.
I've done everything to clarify that I deeply like some of their music & anyone who wants to can like all of it.
I'm just tryna take a more balanced look at the band.
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#2977755 - 02/27/19 03:28 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
desertbluesman Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
I came to realize that onstage they were playing at the same time more than they were playing as a cohesive unit.
I think that was the key to the fire that they had, they were competing with each other not playing "with" each other. And from that competition came some wonderful things. Maybe it wasn't pleasant between them but they sure shook up Rock and Roll back in those "Clapton is God" days.

Of course as I got better at playing, the Cream stuff had much less impact on me than it did in the late 60's, still I like some of the stuff they did a big bunch, some of the other stuff they did not so much.
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#2977768 - 02/27/19 05:21 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: desertbluesman]
d / halfnote Offline
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OK.............but I think (The) Cream didn't goad each other on the way a jazz band does by reflecting what the other members play.
They, particularly the rhythm section, just played busily in a sorta competition.
However I've stated my ideas repeatedly:

[1] They were a group of players who had, individually, great talent.
[2] As a band they did some great music.
[3] Unfortunately that wasn't always great music.
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#2977796 - 02/27/19 09:05 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
Hold on Scott, I never said (The) Cream lacked substance.


"They were also one of pop music's most blatant attempts to get over on image rather than substance," is what I'm reacting to. If that doesn't denigrate their substance, then I guess you mean to say their image was beyond measure. And I simply don't think that was or is the case.
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#2977821 - 02/28/19 05:37 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
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"I came to realize that onstage they were playing at the same time more than they were playing as a cohesive unit".

I'd think playing "at the same time" would be what MADE them a "cohesive" unit! freak

Unless(somehow) you meant they each did their OWN thing instead of all doing the SAME TUNE. Which, when I saw them live was never the case.

Of course, that WAS 50 years ago, and my fondness for them might be clouding my memory... wink But, I don't think so.....
Whitefang
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#2977833 - 02/28/19 07:03 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Scott Fraser]
d / halfnote Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: d
Hold on Scott, I never said (The) Cream lacked substance.


"They were also one of pop music's most blatant attempts to get over on image rather than substance," is what I'm reacting to. If that doesn't denigrate their substance, then I guess you mean to say their image was beyond measure. And I simply don't think that was or is the case.

I guess I expressed that poorly...& yer right, Scott, I did invoke the substance of the band.

I meant that their image, clearly planned from the start, was to be the foremost musical exploratory, jazz-tinged blues-rock band happening.
That's what I & many others thought they were.
The musical substance sometimes failed to live up to that &, esp in concert, became endless loud jams of uncohesive riffing.

They're not the only band that slid into that but they definitely did.

All I can suggest is that ppl re-listen to some of their recs---really listen, not just play them & let yer memories float by--& consider what was actually being played.

It might also be worth reading John Platt's book abt the recording of DISRAELI GEARS; Crossroads : the life and music of Eric Clapton by Michael Schumacher & some of the comments members, esp Clapton, have made abt the band in interviews.
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#2985253 - 04/15/19 11:33 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
Delta Offline
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A follow up on the show as I saw them last night. All 3 members definitely have the genes and chops of their older relatives. Both Malcom Bruce and Will Johns are very good singers. All told, they did an excellent representation of live Cream in their prime. The set list was essentially the same as that on my OP, but in a different order. The interplay which Cream was famous for was brilliantly displayed. It was a pretty bare bones setup gear-wise which to me added to the authenticity of the era. There was no background Cream video footage displayed, as, supposedly, they've had at some earlier venues. Other than a few entertaining stories about the 3 original members, they just rocked. The show was well attended and appreciated. Absolutely nothing negative to report. Supposedly, the tour has been extended with added shows in New Orleans, Houston and Dallas. I highly recommend them to any Cream fans in those areas. It was a very delightful time trip.


Edited by Delta (04/15/19 11:34 AM)
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#2985333 - 04/15/19 07:38 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Delta]
Larryz Offline
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Thanks for getting back to us Delta! Glad you had a good time and that you can recommend the show! Cream has always been a favorite of mine! thu
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