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#2977706 - 02/27/19 10:00 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Scott Fraser]
d / halfnote Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7635
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Hold on Scott, I never said (The) Cream lacked substance.
They undeniably created much great music, as I've emphasized already.
I only made the point that, contrary to what many (self included) thought at the time (& some still do) they were never all abt the music & that however we might parse it (Stigwood + Baker > Clapton & Bruce idk ) they might be cited as a case where commercial interests overtook & eventual killed the band.
The part abt how Clapton selected what he thought might be the best players* (as you allude to re: CSN, etc) is a bit beside the point.

[ * & he really had to convince Bruce & Baker to play together since they'd already built up deep animosity]
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#2977734 - 02/27/19 01:34 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4973
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
All I can say about the Cream band. Is that they had a fire in their live playing and on the Wheels Of Fire album, that is rarely matched, even to this day. The animosity between them made for a competitive spirit that may have been unpleasant between them, but the results were stunning to me back in those days. To this day one of my most favorite cuts is Crossroads from Wheels Of Fire, smokin hot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE9HvSdcaL4
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#2977740 - 02/27/19 01:56 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: desertbluesman]
d / halfnote Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7635
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
They were stunning to me as well, DBM, they really seemed to be blowing things up & while I still today think some of their stuff's phenomenal, as I became a more developed player myself,I came to realize that onstage they were playing at the same time more than they were playing as a cohesive unit.
Even beyond that I kinda think they (along w/ others) took credit for songs that shoulda gone to others, & let's face it a blues afficianado as deep as Clapton knew it.

As for the live "Crossroads" see my earlier comment taken from Clapton himself.
I've done everything to clarify that I deeply like some of their music & anyone who wants to can like all of it.
I'm just tryna take a more balanced look at the band.
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#2977755 - 02/27/19 03:28 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4973
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Originally Posted By: d
I came to realize that onstage they were playing at the same time more than they were playing as a cohesive unit.
I think that was the key to the fire that they had, they were competing with each other not playing "with" each other. And from that competition came some wonderful things. Maybe it wasn't pleasant between them but they sure shook up Rock and Roll back in those "Clapton is God" days.

Of course as I got better at playing, the Cream stuff had much less impact on me than it did in the late 60's, still I like some of the stuff they did a big bunch, some of the other stuff they did not so much.
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dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2977768 - 02/27/19 05:21 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: desertbluesman]
d / halfnote Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
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Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
OK.............but I think (The) Cream didn't goad each other on the way a jazz band does by reflecting what the other members play.
They, particularly the rhythm section, just played busily in a sorta competition.
However I've stated my ideas repeatedly:

[1] They were a group of players who had, individually, great talent.
[2] As a band they did some great music.
[3] Unfortunately that wasn't always great music.
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#2977796 - 02/27/19 09:05 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5319
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: d
Hold on Scott, I never said (The) Cream lacked substance.


"They were also one of pop music's most blatant attempts to get over on image rather than substance," is what I'm reacting to. If that doesn't denigrate their substance, then I guess you mean to say their image was beyond measure. And I simply don't think that was or is the case.
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#2977821 - 02/28/19 05:37 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11601
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
"I came to realize that onstage they were playing at the same time more than they were playing as a cohesive unit".

I'd think playing "at the same time" would be what MADE them a "cohesive" unit! freak

Unless(somehow) you meant they each did their OWN thing instead of all doing the SAME TUNE. Which, when I saw them live was never the case.

Of course, that WAS 50 years ago, and my fondness for them might be clouding my memory... wink But, I don't think so.....
Whitefang
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#2977833 - 02/28/19 07:03 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Scott Fraser]
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 7635
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: d
Hold on Scott, I never said (The) Cream lacked substance.


"They were also one of pop music's most blatant attempts to get over on image rather than substance," is what I'm reacting to. If that doesn't denigrate their substance, then I guess you mean to say their image was beyond measure. And I simply don't think that was or is the case.

I guess I expressed that poorly...& yer right, Scott, I did invoke the substance of the band.

I meant that their image, clearly planned from the start, was to be the foremost musical exploratory, jazz-tinged blues-rock band happening.
That's what I & many others thought they were.
The musical substance sometimes failed to live up to that &, esp in concert, became endless loud jams of uncohesive riffing.

They're not the only band that slid into that but they definitely did.

All I can suggest is that ppl re-listen to some of their recs---really listen, not just play them & let yer memories float by--& consider what was actually being played.

It might also be worth reading John Platt's book abt the recording of DISRAELI GEARS; Crossroads : the life and music of Eric Clapton by Michael Schumacher & some of the comments members, esp Clapton, have made abt the band in interviews.
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#2985253 - 04/15/19 11:33 AM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: d / halfnote]
Delta Offline
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Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 339
Loc: Ormond Beach, FL
A follow up on the show as I saw them last night. All 3 members definitely have the genes and chops of their older relatives. Both Malcom Bruce and Will Johns are very good singers. All told, they did an excellent representation of live Cream in their prime. The set list was essentially the same as that on my OP, but in a different order. The interplay which Cream was famous for was brilliantly displayed. It was a pretty bare bones setup gear-wise which to me added to the authenticity of the era. There was no background Cream video footage displayed, as, supposedly, they've had at some earlier venues. Other than a few entertaining stories about the 3 original members, they just rocked. The show was well attended and appreciated. Absolutely nothing negative to report. Supposedly, the tour has been extended with added shows in New Orleans, Houston and Dallas. I highly recommend them to any Cream fans in those areas. It was a very delightful time trip.


Edited by Delta (04/15/19 11:34 AM)
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#2985333 - 04/15/19 07:38 PM Re: For You Cream Fans [Re: Delta]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11970
Loc: Northern California
Thanks for getting back to us Delta! Glad you had a good time and that you can recommend the show! Cream has always been a favorite of mine! thu
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