Bucktunes Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I'll elaborate a bit on these excellent suggestions; Learn some theory. Otherwise, you're just wasting time trying to re-invent the circle of fifths. And don't ever let anyone convince you that music education limits or inhibits creativity! The more you know about harmony and theory, the more creative you become. Try and tell Jacob Collier he's not creative... Learn good hand and seating/standing position. Your wrists, neck, and back will thank you later. And don't play with flat fingers. Your fingers should be naturally curved when playing. ^This, x1000!^ Learn it right from the beginning, because old habits are much harder to break once they're embedded into your playing. Also, learn proper fingering so you don't have to think about it while playing. Practice until it becomes natural and automatic. As Dizzy Gillespie used to say, "Learn technique so you can forget technique". Quote ><> Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I look at all of this wonderful advice, and thing "thank $deity I do most of this already". So I guess I'm officially a wizened old dude. Anyone else want to nominate this for a Key Thread? Quote Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Learn to solo using just one note. Brilliant... I like this a lot. Timing and dynamics are critical. Pitch is just one important ingredient in the result. Quote Sundown Working on: The Jupiter Bluff; Driven Away Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361 DAW Platform: Cubase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Find a good mentor. I can easily attribute the most profound influences to my development as a musician/keyboard player to two or three special people. Quote "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 "The piano doesn't know you have two hands." Quote Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I hope this is viewed as related to topic I have fooled around on piano, organ and now keyboard since a kid. IF you asked me "are your fingers curved or not" I would not know. I pay no attention.. and I am sure my playing of many kinds of music would show this defect . Now to my question... a friend of mine is learning piano... his first teacher said curved fingers.. then he switched teachers and was told flat fingers.. On top of that, he said flat seems better. on top of that he cited the great Horowitz as playing less curved and more flat. So question is... are there without doubt, at least two schools of thought on piano playing.. curved finger and more flat? Likely there are some that would combine both approaches, depending on the musical intent. Thanks Quote You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejefunkyman Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Anyone else want to nominate this for a Key Thread? I definitely think this should be a Key Thread!! So many good advice inside ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejefunkyman Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 4) Learn good hand and seating/standing position. Your wrists, neck, and back will thank you later. And don't play with flat fingers. Your fingers should be naturally curved when playing. This one is so damn important ;-) One should never let pain grow inside because of bad body or hand positions, otherwise, this may be the beginning of the end... I'll add to this: learn to carry loads in the right way by using legs for going up and down and your abs muscles. Protect your back by all mean necessary!! Back pain is absolutely terrible, you should always keep this in mind!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkost2002 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I hope this is viewed as related to topic I have fooled around on piano, organ and now keyboard since a kid. IF you asked me "are your fingers curved or not" I would not know. I pay no attention.. and I am sure my playing of many kinds of music would show this defect . Now to my question... a friend of mine is learning piano... his first teacher said curved fingers.. then he switched teachers and was told flat fingers.. On top of that, he said flat seems better. on top of that he cited the great Horowitz as playing less curved and more flat. So question is... are there without doubt, at least two schools of thought on piano playing.. curved finger and more flat? Likely there are some that would combine both approaches, depending on the musical intent. Thanks I had a classical teacher in college named Albert Lotto, who studied with Horowitz. Alberts longtime teacher at Julliard was Sascha Gorodnitski, who played flat fingered but was not dogmatic about ingraining it in his students, only those who had a certain hand structure. But the one thing I really learned from Albert was that its not just about your FINGERS but that your WRISTS are level with the keys so that ALL hand and arm muscles can be properly engaged. Kenny Werner says the same thing. He got that from Madame Chaloff in Boston. Quote "I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.� Robert Bosch, 1919 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 So much great advice here. It could be made into an app, or a set of cards (like Eno's oblique strategies). Having been around the block I kinda know this, but it helps to be reminded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuzikTeechur Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Now to my question... a friend of mine is learning piano... his first teacher said curved fingers.. then he switched teachers and was told flat fingers.. On top of that, he said flat seems better. on top of that he cited the great Horowitz as playing less curved and more flat. So question is... are there without doubt, at least two schools of thought on piano playing.. curved finger and more flat? Likely there are some that would combine both approaches, depending on the musical intent. Thanks If you can play like Horowitz, then do whatever you like. By "curved" I'm not talking "curled up like an arthritic old crone." I said "naturally curved." But play however you like, really. Here's Horowitz in '68. He plays *slightly* flatter than I do, but also his hand position is WAY closer to the fallboard than mine. Of course, he's probably playing in d# minor or the like, and needs to be way in there. How else do you think all those gouge marks get on the lower fallboard of a well-used Steinway? Quote Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine. HS music teacher: Concert Band, Marching Band, Jazz Band, Chorus, Music Theory, AP Music Theory, History of Rock, Musical Theatre, Piano, Guitar, Drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 "Relaxed" is the important component. There are two competing issues at play: the downward motion, which is easier on the physiology of the hand when fingers are curved a bit, and the independence issue, which is easier when fingers are straight. (Two fulcrum points are harder on us than one.) So depending on your style, you may find more relief with fingers bent a bit to help with the downward motion, or closer to straight to help with the horizontal independence--or a bit of both depending on the passage. Most players I know tend to go with a nice relaxed bend when playing chords and then tend toward something flatter when playing fast runs. The wrist (as someone above says) is an even more important component. Allow those tendons to pass freely through the wrist or ALL your playing is going to be tense, whether your fingers are relaxed or not. Quote Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Now to my question... a friend of mine is learning piano... his first teacher said curved fingers.. then he switched teachers and was told flat fingers.. On top of that, he said flat seems better. on top of that he cited the great Horowitz as playing less curved and more flat. So question is... are there without doubt, at least two schools of thought on piano playing.. curved finger and more flat? Likely there are some that would combine both approaches, depending on the musical intent. Thanks If you can play like Horowitz, then do whatever you like. By "curved" I'm not talking "curled up like an arthritic old crone." I said "naturally curved." But play however you like, really. Here's Horowitz in '68. He plays *slightly* flatter than I do, but also his hand position is WAY closer to the fallboard than mine. Of course, he's probably playing in d# minor or the like, and needs to be way in there. Horowitz had a master technician from the Steinway Artist division regulate his personal Steinway piano to his touch. The action he preferred was very sensitive and he toured with that piano. One should be careful citing Horowitz as an example of proper hand positioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Anyone else want to nominate this for a Key Thread? Hear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFF Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 But the one thing I really learned from Albert was that its not just about your FINGERS but that your WRISTS are level with the keys so that ALL hand and arm muscles can be properly engaged. This is excellent, I've often wondered about the height of my hands relative to the keybed, and this makes a ton of sense. Though there's also the question of the height of the elbow relative to the wrist/hand. Quote Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425 Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Great and I have two female lead singers As we say at work: don't fish in the company pond. ...wait you said TWO female singers...? Yeah two of them........no one's happy. Quote "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefDanG Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 If you wanna be happy as long as you linger Never make a pretty woman your singer So for my personal point of view Get an ugly girl to sing for you Quote Professional musician = great source of poverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Wright Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Anyone else want to nominate this for a Key Thread? Hear! Hear! Quote "I cried when I wrote this song Sue me if I play too long" Walter Becker Donald Fagan 1977 Deacon Blues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 One should be careful citing Horowitz as an example of proper hand positioning. I believe the same caution would apply to emulating Glenn Gould. Where have you gone, Dave Horne? Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you woo woo woo Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Anyone else want to nominate this for a Key Thread? I vote no. Those in the forum who have been in position to advise young players will understand. It's been a fun read though - for those of us who have been through it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkost2002 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 But the one thing I really learned from Albert was that its not just about your FINGERS but that your WRISTS are level with the keys so that ALL hand and arm muscles can be properly engaged. This is excellent, I've often wondered about the height of my hands relative to the keybed, and this makes a ton of sense. Though there's also the question of the height of the elbow relative to the wrist/hand. the elbows take care of themselves. let then fall naturally once you alingn the hands properly. the elbows are neither pulled in nor winged out Quote "I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.� Robert Bosch, 1919 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Have a back up keyboard, don't rely on one. If it goes into the shop and you have a gig, you have nothing to play on. I told this to someone the other day and they got offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadslayer Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but one consideration to take into account is that even if the older keys player is giving good advice, will the younger keys player be willing to listen to it? An example would be "Don't hook up with the hot chick singer." Try telling that one to a horny 25 year old. Quote Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but one consideration to take into account is that even if the older keys player is giving good advice, will the younger keys player be willing to listen to it? An example would be "Don't hook up with the hot chick singer." Try telling that one to a horny 25 year old. This may be some of the most practical advice in this thread. But yeah, you'll never take this advice if you're young. You only learn by doing ... so to speak. Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Music Bird Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 As a younger keyboard player Id say I dont really want a hot chick singer. I could care less as long as they sound good. Thats just stereotyping. And I would say to the other younguns out there, try your best to advertise for a band, you may find the perfect band mates if youre lucky, dont choose someone you hate to join your band, itll just make it worse, and even if you want to hire a pretty female singer, keep in mind to some of us (like me), looks dont really matter, you may find you hate her. Quote Yamaha MX49, Casio SK1/WK-7600, Korg Minilogue, Alesis SR-16, Casio CT-X3000, FL Studio, many VSTs, percussion, woodwinds, strings, and sound effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but one consideration to take into account is that even if the older keys player is giving good advice, will the younger keys player be willing to listen to it? An example would be "Don't hook up with the hot chick singer." Try telling that one to a horny 25 year old. This may be some of the most practical advice in this thread. But yeah, you'll never take this advice if you're young. You only learn by doing ... so to speak. Under that logic, this thread is pointless as none of us should ever take the advice of our elders. Feel free to be doomed to repeat history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadslayer Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Speaking of logic... How did you get from "...one consideration to take into account is..." to "...none of us should ever take the advice of our elders." My point, which I tried to make clearly, was that the elder should consider his target audience when giving advice. Quote Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Speaking of logic... How did you get from "...one consideration to take into account is..." to "...none of us should ever take the advice of our elders." My point, which I tried to make clearly, was that the elder should consider his target audience when giving advice. Years ago a bachelorette party came to our show and at the end of the night our 22 year old horny guitarist wanted the rest of the band to go back to their party. As BL I told him the bus leaves in half an hour, if he wants to dip his doodle then he can find another ride home. We had a loud argument but he wasn't moving this oak of an elder. BTW today he is happily married to the girlfriend he almost cheated on back then, has four daughters, and we are still friends. It's one thing to consider your target audience. It's another thing to know how to confront it. And I'm not shy about calling them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFF Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 But the one thing I really learned from Albert was that its not just about your FINGERS but that your WRISTS are level with the keys so that ALL hand and arm muscles can be properly engaged. This is excellent, I've often wondered about the height of my hands relative to the keybed, and this makes a ton of sense. Though there's also the question of the height of the elbow relative to the wrist/hand. the elbows take care of themselves. let then fall naturally once you alingn the hands properly. the elbows are neither pulled in nor winged out I didn't mean the elbows going in or out, I meant up or down. The wrists can be relatively flat, and the elbows up or down in relation to the wrists. Perhaps you mean the wrists/forearms and elbows are flat? Quote Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425 Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadslayer Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Speaking of logic... How did you get from "...one consideration to take into account is..." to "...none of us should ever take the advice of our elders." My point, which I tried to make clearly, was that the elder should consider his target audience when giving advice. Years ago a bachelorette party came to our show and at the end of the night our 22 year old horny guitarist wanted the rest of the band to go back to their party. As BL I told him the bus leaves in half an hour, if he wants to dip his doodle then he can find another ride home. We had a loud argument but he wasn't moving this oak of an elder. BTW today he is happily married to the girlfriend he almost cheated on back then, has four daughters, and we are still friends. It's one thing to consider your target audience. It's another thing to know how to confront it. And I'm not shy about calling them out. Seems like we're talking about two different things, but no matter. I won't belabor the point. cheers Quote Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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