What older keys players should say to younger keys players

[Outkaster]

If playing keys is a hobby (and not you chosen career), you have much more freedom to explore what satisfies you musically. Don't pigeonhole yourself in a given genre, see what's out there. You might be surprised how much you like it.

 

When it comes to instruments, we live in amazing times. A single modern keyboard can mostly replicate a ridiculous number of the original instruments. A lightweight pair of PA speakers brings 4000w and a flat response curve. Buy once, buy right.

 

If you really want that last 2%, go for it.

 

Don't marry yourself to a band, they come and go. Work up an acoustic act where you're the primary instrument -- it'll do wonders for your chops. Wean yourself off of sheet music and dedicated mixes; strive to memorize everything and learn to hear yourself in the group mix.

 

And, above all, when it stops being fun, you need to do something different.

 

Nothing wrong with marrying yourself to a band. It takes a ton of discipline to be part of something larger than yourself.

[lightbg]

If you want to make money in the music business forget gigging and sell band uniforms..........

 

Jake

[Threadslayer]

Keep. your. day. job.

 

[EscapeRocks]

Don't get discouraged when you come across the old, cynical curmudgeon.

 

Enjoy your music. Don't be told what you must like or dislike, or even what is good or bad music. Do your thing.

[midinut]

Get off my lawn ...

 

There, someone had to say it.

[Outkaster]

Don't put up with shit from guitar players

 

Don't get into a band with more than one guitar player

 

Don't let yourself be an afterthought in a band or ensemble or get bullied by musicians

 

Practice and stay on top of your craft as much as you can

 

Try to improve with your instrument and in your life

 

Don't listen to people all the time with the equipment you buy, educate yourself on what you want to put your best foot forward

 

Try not to use a music stand on stage when you play unless necessary

 

Develop your instincts as much as possible. Test the waters when you can with new music

 

Be careful, musicians are passive-agressive and often emotionally immature people

 

Try to emulate good qualities from other musicians that came before you

 

Try not to hero-worship it can be counter-productive and know what you can bring to the table

 

Work out and get into good shape as tough as it can be to juggle both disciplines, it will help your gigging and add years to your life

 

Come to this forum ( if it's still around) for advice and some good guidance

 

Look both ways before you cross the street and don't eat yellow snow

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dextroze]

I would say even if I'm only 31 :

Try to never get bored and play as a robot.

If you always play the same thing, listen to People that made better versions, or original versions and get your version embellished by all the ingredients you can fond.

[jimkost2002]

Don't put up with shit from guitar players

 

Don't get into a band with more than one guitar player

 

Don't let yourself be an afterthought in a band or ensemble or get bullied by musicians

 

Practice and stay on top of your craft as much as you can

 

Try to improve with your instrument and in your life

 

Don't listen to people all the time with the equipment you buy, educate yourself on what you want to put your best foot forward

 

Try not to use a music stand on stage when you play unless necessary

 

Develop your instincts as much as possible. Test the waters when you can with new music

 

Be careful, musicians are passive-agressive and often emotionally immature people

 

Try to emulate good qualities from other musicians that came before you

 

Try not to hero-worship it can be counter-productive and know what you can bring to the table

 

Work out and get into good shape as tough as it can be to juggle both disciplines, it will help your gigging and add years to your life

 

Come to this forum ( if it's still around) for advice and some good guidance

 

Look both ways before you cross the street and don't eat yellow snow

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All great advice, Jason, especially THIS:

 

Be careful, musicians are passive-agressive and often emotionally immature people

 

[hardware]

I took advice from my first Band Leader who told me to learn a trade.

I told him I joined Local 42 3 months ago right out of high school.

 

Concrete work isnt that hard, Vegas from 95 - 2013 was a Gold Mine.

 

Id take National Acts for 4-6 months, come back and jump in on a Tower until the next gig.

The beauty of Unions is guaranteed benefits, wages and you can come and go as you please.

Perfect for Musicians especially in Nevada, Local 6A in NYC or Atlantic City.

 

Downside is local lounge acts and shows wouldnt hire you except as a sub.

They knew you wouldnt be there to make them money 6 nights a week 52 weeks a year.

Who wants to work 6 nights a week playing chick music for a buck 50 a night anyways?

No thanks.

 

Learn A Trade Junior.

 

[MAJUSCULE]

Should I surprised this is such a hot topic?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(I am on the record several times as being grateful for all I've learned here.)

[ProfD]

Enjoy the sense of discovery, adventure and experience of being a musician.

 

Learn tricks of trade from them but do not spend too much time with cynical and/or jaded muscians.

 

Spend more time playing with like-minded peers. There is a reason new bands do have a huge age disparity in their membership.

[Sam CA]

Few random suggestions to a young key player...

 

1) Learn to keep a solid practice routine that actually works.

 

2) Ear training

 

3) When you're told, someone's been playing keys for 40 years....etc. As impressive as it sounds, it could mean absolutely nothing at all. It's really not that hard to just grow older, buy truck load of keys and accomplish nothing musically. It could also mean that person was able to use all that time to grow as a musician or performer. This is your chance to make things happen.

 

4) Ear training

 

5) If you're considering music as a full time career, I strongly recommend that you look around for internship opportunities if possible.

 

6) Did I say ear training?

[Bill H.]

Should I surprised this is such a hot topic? ;

 

Over 40 replies and 500 views in less than 12 hours makes this the hottest topic I've seen in here in years!

 

I dunno... the few times I've actually given advice to younger players has been about getting a better sound, dealing with clubs, owners, managers... that kind of stuff. I've shared my own struggles with alcoholism to a few who I think needed to hear it.

 

Other than that, I leave it alone. They do things so differently - which is a good thing of course.

[The Real MC]

Look out for #1. There's ALWAYS someone better than you, and they're coming when you least expect it.

 

Be wary of soundmen who are frustrated guitar players or who are buddies with the guitar player.

 

A TRUE sound engineer (not just soundman) will know the difference between -10dBv and +4dBu (and 14dB is NOT the correct answer).

 

Learn to sing. Develop it along with your chops.

 

Learn to play other instruments such as guitar. When you're in a band with one guitar player, there are many times when rhythm guitar parts do not cut it on a keyboard.

 

Be assertive with musicians you admire, and respect your peers.

 

Don't air your dirty laundry in public or on social media.

[ksoper]

Do not, for any reason, discuss politics or religion with band members, recording artists, engineers, managers, agents, promoters, stage hands, lighting techs, cocktail waitresses, your mom...

 

Don't do it. Leave the room if you have to. Pick up your book/phone/tablet/laptop and find your own happy space. If you're stuck on a tour bus with a bunch of rednecks go back to your bunk, draw the curtain and watch a movie. When asked, "What do you think about such and such," you smile, nod, and reply, "Boy, that's something!" Or just a "Oh, man, ha ha ha whew!"

 

I have yet to take this advice. My friend Jason has always kept his opinions to himself. I've known him 18 years and I still don't know how he votes. He gets along with everybody and nobody has ever said a bad word about him. He embodies YES. And as a result, his career is in the stratosphere. Be like Jason.

 

Oh, and ear training.

[CowboyNQ]

...develop the ability to sing any scale tone based off the root.

 

I will rephrase: be able to identify and hear.

Good advice for sure!

 

[Joe Muscara]

Don't get into a band with more than one guitar player

Jason, you know I love ya, but you always drop this one. It can be true if you're talking about two cats who are always turning it up to 11 and don't listen. It is unfortunately true of too many amateur/hobby/etc bands.

 

But it's not true if they're any good. If that's the case, you might be in a really good band. Like the Rolling Stones, Little Feat, the Black Crowes, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, and some band from New Jersey you might have heard of.

 

IOW, if there are two guitar players, be cautious. But it might be a great indicator of how good they are. A band with one plank spanker might not be obvious how badly he listens and how much he turns up the volume. Two will tell you right away.

[MAJUSCULE]

I dunno, if you join Iron Maiden (three guitar players), you have to play under the stage

[The Real MC]

Don't get into a band with more than one guitar player

Jason, you know I love ya, but you always drop this one.

 

Jason is hardly the only one to share this frustration.

 

It can be true if you're talking about two cats who are always turning it up to 11 and don't listen. It is unfortunately true of too many amateur/hobby/etc bands.

 

Which is unfortunately the norm in the areas where Jason and I live.

 

But it's not true if they're any good. If that's the case, you might be in a really good band. Like the Rolling Stones, Little Feat, the Black Crowes, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, and some band from New Jersey you might have heard of.

 

I played in cover bands for 30+ years and have yet to encounter a cover band playing songs from RS, LF, and BS. TP songs - yeah, songs that are fun to play on GUITAR. The only Black Crowes song I covered was Hard To Handle.

 

IOW, if there are two guitar players, be cautious. But it might be a great indicator of how good they are. A band with one plank spanker might not be obvious how badly he listens and how much he turns up the volume. Two will tell you right away.

 

Words of wisdom, however it varies wildly by region. Where I live, bands with even ONE good guitar player - "good" as in appreciative of keyboard players - are few and far between. Most of them only want to play songs that are fun to play on guitar, or are too focused on being the next guitar hero.

[timwat]

What I tell young musos already:

 

1) Most important thing you bring to an audience is your sound

2) Don't be a dick

3) If there's money involved, treat it like a business

4) Focus on things you can control.

5) Be the change you want to see

 

1) You control the notes you play, the notes you don't, and what those notes sound like. Invest in all three. Practice to play well every time. Grow big ears and listen constantly. And buy the best gear you can afford the first time.

 

2) Much of what it means to be a muso means to play well with others. Don't step on others musically or ethically. Be considerate of others. Be kind. What we do isn't heart surgery - even the worst gigs, no one dies at the end. So don't be a dick about things.

 

3) Understand revenue - expenses = profit. Make sure your big expenses yield a return to you. Don't waste money unnecessarily if you don't have a great day job. And remember that money does funny things to some people. Don't be surprised if someone wants to screw you out of $7.43. No matter what, treat your income like a business person, be frugal and reasonable.

 

4) So much in life is out of our control. The singer's ego, tonight's mix, the drummer's time sense. But I control what time I show up, my appearance and presentation, the notes I play, the notes I don't and what they sound like. Focus on what you control, and don't get too invested in the stuff you can't.

 

5) The biggest thing you can control is the energy you bring to each and every interpersonal engagement. Your energy makes things better...or not. Come alongside the truculent, pensive singer and complement her voice on the first set. Be good to the sound man. But the drummer a beer. Take care of the people on your left and right. That's the essence of what leadership is about - leadership isn't about being in charge, it's taking care of those IN your charge.

[Joe Muscara]

Don't get into a band with more than one guitar player

Jason, you know I love ya, but you always drop this one.

 

Jason is hardly the only one to share this frustration.

[snip]

Oh, I hear ya. I'm just saying Never Say Never. Usually, probably, often, even most of the time, but I'd never turn down a gig *just* because there were two plank spankers. I would be prepared to walk away if the aforementioned problems showed up though. I'd do my best to check them out before committing. It's one of the nice things about people posting videos.

 

What I tell young musos already:

 

C'mon Tim. Don't you have anything funny and/or useless to add? You're always being so damned helpful.

[jimkost2002]

^^^^^^

Great words to live and play by, Tim!

I can always use a refresher course in all that you have put down here!

[vonnor]

...strive to memorize everything and learn to hear yourself in the group mix.

this.

[timwat]

C'mon Tim. Don't you have anything funny and/or useless to add? You're always being so damned helpful.

 

Leaving your wife or GF for the hot damaged young singer ends badly 97.3% of the time.

 

More than 57% of these also end with a chronic burning sensation.

[JimboKeys]

Some advice i would like to have been able to give to my 20-year-old self:

 

Buy decent equipment. If you don't spend the money up front you're not going to get invited into positions where you'll make the money you need to pay it off. Or get a day job if that's what it takes.

 

Look good. People listen with their eyes.

 

Accept that some people are dicks. Learn to either put up with it or move on.

 

Be gracious.

 

Don't be above taking lessons. There's a lot of areas where you could learn something. If you're putting in the effort but not learning anything, find another teacher.

 

- Jimbo

[David Loving]

"When in doubt, lay out."

[ChiefDanG]

It's not too late to take up flute.

 

 

 

 

FWIW - in the past, I did not even ask for an audition for bands with 2 guitars. Late last year I joined one and very happy I did. They also had a second keys player that I get along with!

[elsongs]

"When I was your age, I lugged around a Yamaha DX7, not one of your fancy-schmansy bright red Nord thingamajigs!"

[Piktor]

1) [paraphrased and reinterpreted: LISTEN to others]

2) Don't be a dick

...

4) Focus on things you can control.

5) Be the change you want to see

I'm not surprised to see Tim offer such wisdom. For me, these items are part of my rules for a happy life in general.

There are also many other good suggestions here. However, to the original question I would like to add the responses "Wow, how are you doing that?" or "What are YOU listening to?".

Eventually, what I will say to younger players will be "You should buy my [anything over 35 pounds]."

[TommyRude]

Put on a nice set of headphones. Put on Jimi Hendrix - Voodoo Chile, Rainy Day, Are You Experienced. Close your eyes and listen.. loop it, over and over. Play air guitar until you've got every note. This may take some time, possibly weeks or months or longer. It will be worth it.