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What older keys players should say to younger keys players


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General guidelines: Older >= 40yrs, Younger < 40yrs. Feel free to smash through these guidelines, add new ones or change them as you see fit. I'll get it started.

 

"When I was a younger player, there was no Uber, I had to carry my rig miles through the snow to get to the gig."

Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands

Tommy Rude Soundcloud

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"When I was a younger player, you had to choose your car carefully to fit all your keyboards."

 

Also,

 

"Stop obsessing about how your electric piano doesn't sound like a "real" piano. In 20 years, your e.piano will be way cooler and worth more than most "real" pianos on Craigslist.

What's Craigslist? Well, its a place you can find used things to buy online. Online?, well, its a way to look up stuff on a computer before you use your cell phone to call an Uber to drive you there. Never mind. Just remember this - when Apple computer looks like its gonna go out of business because their computers suck, buy lots of their stock..."

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Get you hands on a REAL Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Hammond A,B,C,M, Clavinet, Moog (pre-2000) or ARP and learn the ins and outs, in terms of not only playing, but also in its construction, servicing and general maintenance.

 

Learn how different amplification systems work with YOUR gear and also with each different piece that you own. Choosing the RIGHT AMP is JUST as crucial as choosing the right keyboards.

 

Oh yeah, get quality time on a GOOD acoustic piano. (Upright or grand) Really learn how to get a good sound and facility. Be CAREFUL to use your physical effort in sound and rhythmic production WISELY!

 

Lastly and most importantly, learn and ingrain the touch needed to play differing Electromechanical and Electronic keyboards. Be mindful of the differences and similarities between them all.

 

BE PATIENT AND EXHAUSTIVELY THOROUGH WITH EACH OF THESE TASKS!

Your future self will thank you.

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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Really learn how to get a good sound and facility.

 

That was an eye-opener for me just last night. I sat down at a grand piano for the time in nearly 30 years. A 100-year-old Steinway at a church I was removing a C3 from. Not too big, maybe 6'? Well regulated, needed tuning but not real bad...was probably tuned in the fall.

 

What did I learn? The intro to Satin Doll is easier to play on that thing than my CP4 or RD800. Why? I dunno. But on the DPs, I can't get the SOUND quite right even when the notes were right. The low notes seem to pop too much, making the chord voicing (drop-1?) not carry quite the way it did when Duke played them.

 

I need to figure this out.

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

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Learn how to, at the very least, START and RUN a tonewheel Hammond, work the Expression pedal, at least try out the bass pedals, and get s feel for the half moon switch that controls the speed of that strange external speaker thing.

 

^^^^^^^

 

THIS

 

Thanks for breaking this essential skill down,zukskywalker

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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A serious answer: "Buy professional-grade gear that will last decades, rather than cheaper equipment that dates rapidly".

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

BAM!

Nailed it, Mike. The pain your budget may feel initially will fade with careful planning and you wil thank yourself years down the line.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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Assuming they play covers:

 

Imagine a world without YouTube, [your preferred on line sheet music provider], the ability to search lyrics on line and ultimateguitar.com

 

Whether they play covers or not:

 

Imagine a world where

 

- if you want to hear an artist perform you have to stump up money to buy their music.

- a quality recording of your music means paying for studio time

- the keyboard you take on stage breaks down frequently, is very unwieldy and is hard to keep in tune

- the keyboard(s)you take on stage sounds great, but can only do one or two things really well.

- the lights on stage are hot, suck a lot of power and make you sweat profusely

- your PA speakers are ridiculously heavy because you can't have decent sound quality with lightweight speakers.

- international touring acts charge reasonable prices for their shows because they can make money from record sales

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I you feel your playing is not where you want it to be, don't be afraid to take a music lesson...I started again in my later 20's/ early 30's and it helped literally every musical thing I did there after.. and I kept taking them. Gear and gigs come and go, but your chops are like listening to you own breath..you will have it (them) for the rest of your life!

 

 

 

 CP-50, YC 73,  FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122

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What did I learn? The intro to Satin Doll is easier to play on that thing than my CP4 or RD800. Why? I dunno. But on the DPs, I can't get the SOUND quite right even when the notes were right. The low notes seem to pop too much, making the chord voicing (drop-1?) not carry quite the way it did when Duke played them.

 

I need to figure this out.

 

Wes +1. There is something about the tonal consistency and evenness of a good (or even adequate) AP which DPs commonly fail to achieve.

 

Cheers, Mike.

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...develop the ability to sing any scale tone based off the root.

This was one of the things that turned me off learning classical music. The requirement to sing things at exams. I don't have the facility to accurately describe how awful this made me feel as a young person. Singing (regardless of ability and quality of instrument) should be a joy, not a KPI.

 

I loved the piano, I hated being embarrassed and feeling inadequate.

 

I felt then, as I do now, that singing and piano playing are mutually exclusive skills.

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Being 26 years old and Hungarian, I don't agree with the necessity of everything that was said above.

Get you hands on a REAL Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Hammond A,B,C,M, Clavinet, Moog (pre-2000) or ARP and learn the ins and outs, in terms of not only playing, but also in its construction, servicing and general maintenance.
I can barely enumerate 10 people in Hungary that own a Hammond. I know maybe 2 people with a Rhodes, 1 with a Clav and none with a Wurlitzer. I might never in my life get my hands on those instruments, why should I be able to service them?

Even musicians that could afford those (which is rare in itself) won't buy them because nowadays you can get the sound with VSTs both live and in the studio. Hauling them is prohibitively difficult to most, maybe 5 people gig real Hammonds in the entire country: 2 jazz players and 3 classic rockers exactly. Real Hammonds are important to US culture but for a Hungarian they are an expensive hobby like vintage cars.

"When I was a younger player, you had to choose your car carefully to fit all your keyboards."
Why, has that changed?

Life is subtractive.
Genres: Jazz, funk, pop, Christian worship, BebHop
Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symph pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre
Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G. KingKORG. SP6 at church.

 

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Practice with a metronome and develop the ability to sing any scale tone based off the root.

 

Rather than this specific ability, I would tell a young musician to "develop your ears". Can you hear root movement in a song? Can you hear a I vi ii V ? A ii V I ? Developing one's melodic and harmonic perceptions are important skills, especially when getting into more sophisticated music (someone mentioned "Satin Doll").

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Get you hands on a REAL Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Hammond A,B,C,M, Clavinet, Moog (pre-2000) or ARP and learn the ins and outs, in terms of not only playing, but also in its construction, servicing and general maintenance.

 

Learn how different amplification systems work with YOUR gear and also with each different piece that you own. Choosing the RIGHT AMP is JUST as crucial as choosing the right keyboards.

 

Oh yeah, get quality time on a GOOD acoustic piano. (Upright or grand) Really learn how to get a good sound and facility. Be CAREFUL to use your physical effort in sound and rhythmic production WISELY!

 

Lastly and most importantly, learn and ingrain the touch needed to play differing Electromechanical and Electronic keyboards. Be mindful of the differences and similarities between them all.

 

BE PATIENT AND EXHAUSTIVELY THOROUGH WITH EACH OF THESE TASKS!

Your future self will thank you.

 

All of this above and be glad you didn't have to lug a HAMMOND AND A YAMAHA ELECTRIC GRAND in your van to gigs. Luckily I have owned all the vintage boards that Jim mentioned and the Wurly was a pita to tune. Don't cut corners on amplification quality is always better. Be creative and technology has it's place but authentic sounding instruments seem to work well for me.

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...develop the ability to sing any scale tone based off the root.

This was one of the things that turned me off learning classical music. The requirement to sing things at exams. I don't have the facility to accurately describe how awful this made me feel as a young person. Singing (regardless of ability and quality of instrument) should be a joy, not a KPI.

 

I loved the piano, I hated being embarrassed and feeling inadequate.

 

I felt then, as I do now, that singing and piano playing are mutually exclusive skills.

 

I will rephrase: be able to identify and hear.

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My father didn't relate to the popular music of my era.

 

I don't relate to the current popular music of this era.

 

You won't relate to the current popular music of a future era.

 

That being said, there is always good, moving and quality new music coming from somewhere.

 

"If you're young, listen to old music. If you're old, listen to new music."

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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Being 26 years old and Hungarian, I don't agree with the necessity of everything that was said above.

Get you hands on a REAL Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Hammond A,B,C,M, Clavinet, Moog (pre-2000) or ARP and learn the ins and outs, in terms of not only playing, but also in its construction, servicing and general maintenance.
I can barely enumerate 10 people in Hungary that own a Hammond. I know maybe 2 people with a Rhodes, 1 with a Clav and none with a Wurlitzer. I might never in my life get my hands on those instruments, why should I be able to service them?

Even musicians that could afford those (which is rare in itself) won't buy them because nowadays you can get the sound with VSTs both live and in the studio. Hauling them is prohibitively difficult to most, maybe 5 people gig real Hammonds in the entire country: 2 jazz players and 3 classic rockers exactly. Real Hammonds are important to US culture but for a Hungarian they are an expensive hobby like vintage cars.

"When I was a younger player, you had to choose your car carefully to fit all your keyboards."
Why, has that changed?

 

well, if you can barely enumerate 10 or 2 people, get to one of those 10 or 2.

where theres a will, theres a way.

I grew up in a small town where I knew 2 people who had these instruments, but I drove 60-100 miles to get to instruments I didnt have access to. I found out who had them and how to get there.

If you are going to emulate US music, at least at the start, learn the tools enough to get an accurate yardstick to judge VSTs and hardware emulators, thats my point.

Also, you dont have to learn to service them, just have a fair idea of how they work mechanically by sering the actual thing in front of you.

Get your hands on doesnt HAVE to mean buy, but to have some degree of access to....

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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Yes it will only help get perspective on instruments. A good amount of people that argue about these sounds have not played the real thing where a lot of guys around here have.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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My father didn't relate to the popular music of my era.

 

I don't relate to the current popular music of this era.

 

You won't relate to the current popular music of a future era.

 

That being said, there is always good, moving and quality new music coming from somewhere.

 

"If you're young, listen to old music. If you're old, listen to new music."

 

Its more than that. Good crafstmanship, sincerity and authenticity transcend generational barriers. They are TIMELESS. Theres good music in ALL eras, but fake and soul-sucking are always fake and soul-sucking no matter whether its done by 9 or 90 year olds.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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Yes it will only help get perspective on instruments. A good amount of people that argue about these sounds have not played the real thing where a lot of guys around here have.

 

My point EXACTLY, Jason. I would only changenot to NEVER EVER

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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If playing keys is a hobby (and not you chosen career), you have much more freedom to explore what satisfies you musically. Don't pigeonhole yourself in a given genre, see what's out there. You might be surprised how much you like it.

 

When it comes to instruments, we live in amazing times. A single modern keyboard can mostly replicate a ridiculous number of the original instruments. A lightweight pair of PA speakers brings 4000w and a flat response curve. Buy once, buy right.

 

If you really want that last 2%, go for it.

 

Don't marry yourself to a band, they come and go. Work up an acoustic act where you're the primary instrument -- it'll do wonders for your chops. Wean yourself off of sheet music and dedicated mixes; strive to memorize everything and learn to hear yourself in the group mix.

 

And, above all, when it stops being fun, you need to do something different.

Want to make your band better?  Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band"

 

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cphollis said:

 

Buy once, buy right

 

This should be tatooed underneath the eyelids of every keyboard player, hobbyist or professional.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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