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Neo Minivent, or Roland VR 730 ??


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So 0- currently have an RD2000 on the bottom and an FA07 on the top. Im reasonably happy - but the FA was chosen for its VA synth engine really. I have since bought a Peak so thats less important. Organ sounds are now the priority.

 

Both RD and FA have issues there. The FA doesnt have physical drawbars, the RD doesnt have organ editing (it has leslie editing but not organ - things like click level, leakage level, percussive level etc).

 

So - thinking how to improve things. the Nord Electro wont work, as I need the light action board to control the Peak as well - and the midi implementation on the Electro just doesnt work for that. the Stage 3 does, but its a lot more money, and as I have no use for the piano or synth sections I cant justify that.

 

So- looks like I have a choice.

 

1. Sell the FA and pick up a VR730. I loose the arpegiator, and sequencer but I can live without those. I get a better core organ sound than either the RD or FA< and a better Leslie sim as well as a hands on FX section. Also gives me the waterfall action.

 

2. Keep the FA and add a Neo Minivent. This would give me the best leslie upgrade - but wouldnt do anything for the lack of deeper editing on the RD (which is the board Id use because of the draw bars) and wouldnt improve the core (non leslie) organ tones that the VR would do.

 

Both routes will cost me about he same. So which is the "better" route to take.

 

Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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I'd say go the first route. (Do the VR organs really improve compared to those other two boards though?)

 

Although you could MIDI up the RD and the FA so that you can edit the FA organs and control them from the RD sliders.

Life is subtractive.
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You cant control the FA with the RDs drawbars. They only work in that mode with internal sounds. There is currently no way of using the sliders for anything other than zone volume for external sounds.

 

I do play the RDs organ sounds with the FAs keyboard, giving me access to the drawbars.

 

The RD and FA organ sounds are actually identical when set the same - BUT the addition of the click levels, percussion levels, leakage levels and so on mean the FAs sound better (more natural) - and you cant edit the RDs sounds to mirror the FAs, only the other way round. The RD has 2 Leslie sims though while the FA has one. The 2nd RD one is better than the first or the FAs.

 

Directly comparing both the FA and RD to a VR in a store - without Leslie sim on either, the VRs is quite a bit better than either of the other two.

 

If Roland added the more in depth organ editing on the RD - OR enabled the sliders to be used in external zones (AND Configure the FAs Virtual drawbars to work with CCs - which they dont currently) - then I think the Minivent would probably be the better way forward. As it currently stands though - the VR is a better organ machine (with no Leslie effects taken into consideration) than the FA or RD.

 

 

Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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Sell the FA and pick up a VR730. I loose the arpegiator, and sequencer but I can live without those. I get a better core organ sound than either the RD or FA< and a better Leslie sim as well as a hands on FX section. Also gives me the waterfall action.

Reasonable, but make sure you account for all the other things that the FA does that the VR730 does not. You're going from 16-part split/layer function with independent effects for each, to 2-part split/layer with a single set of effects shared between them. You're going from 16-zone MIDI control to 1-zone limited MIDI control. Only 16 of your custom sounds/combinations can be directly recalled with buttons (the other 84 can only be accessed via scrolling). There's no sub out nor even a way to pan sounds to different sides, meaning you can't send different sounds out to different external processing. There are no expansions to load under-represented instruments. Among others.

 

Another board to consider might be the Kurzweil Artis 7. I'd say its organ sound beats the FA, but it might lag the VR... you'd have to check that out for yourself. But it has the 9 sliders for drawbars, and while it is still missing a bunch of FA capabilities (including the sequencer and sample pads), it doesn't have all those limitations I listed in the previous paragraph, or at least not to the same extent. It has 4-part split/layer with flexible effects assignment between them, 4-zone MIDI control, front panel recall of 256 custom sounds and 256 custom combinations (plus a bank of favorite buttons), you can pan sounds. Although not well documented, you can expand its sound set with any PC3 tones. The VR and Artis both rely on iPad/computer for deep editing, but Roland only lets you edit synth sounds, Kurz lets you edit everything. It also expands your palette by giving you access to a bunch of non-Roland sounds, including some that Roland doesn't do very well, like mellotron.

 

Here's another possibility... a Numa Compact 2X with a Gemini module.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Nice options.

 

I am a live player - and while the layers are something I use from time to time - I can layer not just 2 parts in the VR - but the Peak and RD as well if needed (with the correct midi setup). I only use Midi for keyboard control, not for more complex stuff (tone recall etc).

 

The FX might be an issue, but for live playing its probably not a deal breaker. For recording Id add FX in a DAW anyway normally.

 

The number of patches directly accessible is a limitation - but I think I could manage. I currently (on the FA) have one patch dedicated to playing the RD and one to the Peak. I have 13 patches I have FA sounds saved on - BUT there all solo sounds - no splits or layers. Ive not needed more than that is a year. Id be down to 12 on the VR (if I had one patch per bank for peak and/or RD) but thats only 1 down. This is what I use the pads for - I dont sample. If I did Id add a separate small sampler anyway Id guess.

 

Ive never used the sub outs on the FA - though I would (either on the FA or RD) if I went the Minivent route.

 

To be honest - if the RD had the deeper organ editing, the FA had physical drawbars, OR I could control the FAs drawbars from the RDs sliders - Id lie with the slight core downgrade on from the VR and just get the Minivent. Unfortunately they dont (though Ive suggested these along with other FW fixable usability upgrades to Roland - who knows if/when they would implement them).

 

 

This is not me having made my choice already - far from it (and once I have Id have to find a buyer for the FA before I got the VR anyway). Im just clarifying how I use the FA currently.

 

Got to be honest - if I didnt want a VA engine when I bought the FA - along with the pcm based synth stuff - Id have gone VR or Nord electro in the first pace - but as always, needs and priorities do change.

Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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Kurzweils are really hard to find in store in the UK... Ive had some short listening on youtube (not the best medium I know).

 

Thoughts are that the orchestral and string sounds are stunning - the best Ive ever heard from a hardware synth (and I do use those in the FA). I have no need for pianos/EPs as my RD2000 covers that.

 

As far as organs go - there not close to the Nords, and having had both an electro 6d and stage 3 compact up against the VR - these little to call between those two - so Im guessing the Atris isnt going to cut it if the reason to change is for better organs.

 

Shame, as I REALLY like those orchestral sounds.

Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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I am a former owner of a VR700, and I gave a hard look to a fa-06 recently. I was very surprised at the difference between the two organs, specifically the leslie. The VR700's was MUCH better. The basic organ tone sounded about the same from memory but as mentioned you don't have the control, and no C/V iirc (which I don't personally use much anyway, but still). A big killer for me was not having separate overdrive on the keyboard but of course with a vent you'd have that.

 

If the 730 overcomes some of the limitations of the 700--namely, the non-organ sounds were VERY limited and I didn't particularly like the pianos or the synths--and IF it has that same awesome action, it would be recommended.

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Action is slightly better from reviews Ive seen. The synths are better - its a VA engine and you can fully edit them via an ipad app (on stage) or a PC editor - though not from the keyboard direct.

 

I dont need piano/eps/clavs etc as I get those from the RD. I dot NEED a synth as I have the peak (and the RD has a decent amount of good quality choice as well). The orchestral stuff was as good or better than the FA - but less choice.

Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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To be honest - if the RD had the deeper organ editing, the FA had physical drawbars, OR I could control the FAs drawbars from the RDs sliders - Id lie with the slight core downgrade on from the VR and just get the Minivent.

I don't know tha 'd call that a downgrade... FA+Vent arguably sounds better than VR without. But regardless, how about this option... WIth the 1.5 update, the RD2000 sliders send MIDI CC in organ mode. So if you invoke that mode (even if you're not playing the RD's organ), I think you should be able to use a MIDI Solutions box to convert the CC to sysex and use those sliders to control the virtual drawbars on the FA. Or you could keep your eyes open for the discontinued Ocean Beach drawbar box, which I think works with the FA.

 

Kurzweils...orchestral and string sounds are stunning - the best Ive ever heard from a hardware synth (and I do use those in the FA).

That is a Kurz strength, but also be sure to check out he orchestral expansions you can load into the FA.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I wasnt actually aware the drawbars SENT midi ccs when in organ mode - I thought it only sent midi out in "external" mode - which cant have the drawbars enabled.

 

I know that they enabled the RDs drawbars to be controlled via CCs in that update though.

 

Shame the FAs drawbars dont react to CCs in the same way. FA plus vent would probably be my preferred solution (or RD with those deeper editing options) IF ONLY i could find a way to get physical drawbars. No having them kills the FA as an option for organs.

Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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I wasnt actually aware the drawbars SENT midi ccs when in organ mode

Well, that's how it seems to me from the manual, with the note about what's transmitted, but I don't have an RD-2000 myself, and Roland manuals are not a model of clarity...

 

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/RD-2000_v150_eng01_W.pdf

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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OK - Ive confirmed (from the FW 1.5 aditional manual, and a physical test using peak) that the RD does transmit CCs on the drawbars (on the Midi channel corresponding to the zone) when drawbars are enabled.

 

I couldnt check on the FA - because the CCs transmitted are 102 through to 110 - but the FA only responds up to 95. All CCs above that are "reserved" for internal OS commands.

 

Why do Roland make it so hard....... Cant even assign drawbars to their own CCs which would then work.

Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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Since you seem to be a Roland guy why not instead just add a VK8m module? Or if you can wait it looks like Guido might be coming out with an Organ module with VB3, a unit similar in size to a VK8M.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

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Or if you can wait it looks like Guido might be coming out with an Organ module with VB3, a unit similar in size to a VK8M.

The organ module of course exists today in the Gemini. He could use his RD2000 sliders to control it, or I think this works...

 

https://www.crumar.it/?a=page&p=D9U

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Or if you can wait it looks like Guido might be coming out with an Organ module with VB3, a unit similar in size to a VK8M.

The organ module of course exists today in the Gemini. He could use his RD2000 sliders to control it, or I think this works...

 

https://www.crumar.it/?a=page&p=D9U

 

He doesn't own a Gemini and a Gemini is $1200. Why would he spend $1200 to get the Gemini if he's only interested in upgrading the organ? My guess would be that the organ module (if it ever comes out) would have to be significantly less than the Gemini or users would rationalize to spend a little extra to get the Gemini and potentially cannibalize sales of the organ module. So the price of the organ module needs to significantly less than the Gemini or his potential launch of the product would not be very successful.

 

This is where I was with the HX3, that was what I was going to purchase. Then I rationalized that for a few hundred dollars more I could get the Gemini module. Had the HX3 been priced lower I would have bought that; but the delta was small enough (for me) to justify purchasing the Gemini.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

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Ferrofish B-4000 is an option.

I don't think that will necessarily sound any better than what he has.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I would go for the VR730. The Organ and Leslie needs some tweaking but sounds great then. And it has a fully equipped VA synth plus very usable classic keys sounds like AP, EP, Clav strings and so on. Great lightweighted keybed too. The VR730 keybed makes a whole world of difference compared to the VR09 which I own and love despite it's mediocre keybed.

LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-)

 

 

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I would go with a VK8m, this eliminates the need for another keyboard, the footprint is small and add a Vent if he feels that he needs it, and...... IT'S A ROLAND!!!!

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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I wont be adding "another" board. Ill either replace the FA with an organ (VR730 as specified - BUT Ive been looking at an SK1-73) - OR add a leslie sim or possibly rack unit thats cc controllable from the RD. I already have a desktop synth and small mixer on my live stand - I dont have room for another module either.
Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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VR730 as specified - BUT Ive been looking at an SK1-73

SK1 is more customizable in its organ parameters, has better drawbars, 10-button keypad selection, 3-zone MIDI capability. Overdrive is a weakness. It doesn't have all the synth functionality of the VR, but you have that covered elsewhere.

 

OR add a leslie sim or possibly rack unit thats cc controllable from the RD. I already have a desktop synth and small mixer on my live stand - I dont have room for another module either.

The aforementioned Gemini module is available as either a desktop or a rack module. he desktop module could also be placed on the floor, as your hands never need to touch it, assuming you're selecting its patches from your keyboard's controls. As Dave alluded to, it's not your cheapest option, but it could be your best.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Id have to look into the Gemini's. My main issue with them (without adding a controller) is real time control. The RDs drawbars do sent CCs so that would be fine - but How would I do things like percussion settings, leslie speeds/brakes, Chorus on/off etc on the fly.
Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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Hum - the newly announced Viscount Legend EXP module looks interesting. I think I could just about find a mount point for it.

 

Gives me all the control I want - and I could keep the FA. I wouldnt have waterfall keys but thats all Id miss.

 

A little more expensive than the other options but Id keep more functionality.

 

HOWEVER, I have no idea how good or bad the Viscount stuff is, either base organ tones or leslie effects.

 

Roland RD2000, FA07 (soon to be Fantom7), Legend EXP, Peak, Virus Ti2 Desktop.
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"..How would I do things like percussion settings, leslie speeds/brakes, Chorus on/off etc on the fly.

every feature in VB3 on the Gemini is assignable via a CC. if your boards send MIDI CC# out then assign buttons, dials etc. to control the percussion, V/C, leslie via midi. I use a Voce MIDI drawbar unit and assign its controls to control those functions in real time.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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You could add a Korg Nanokontrol or similar... I'm pretty sure the Gemini directly accepts a USB controller, in addition to your MIDI keyboard input. But you're back to needing a place to put it. It's small, though.

 

You can also achieve some functionality by creating different presets (i.e. with and without percussion), but I know that's not the same as freely switching percussion in/out on the fly on whatever your existing drawbar settings may be.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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You might be interested in my setup, which is an Electro 5D on the bottom for piano and organ, and Juno DS on top. The Juno DS is surprisingly powerful, and the latest OS update gives you multi-sampling as well as the general Roland palette of D50/synth sounds. The phrase pad is also very useful for recording and triggering riffs and motifs. Its MIDI functionality would be fine for operating your Peak.

 

Of course you'd lose the RD2000's piano keybed, but you could pick up a Nord 5HP on the used market for about the same price. It's only 76 keys as oppose to the Roland's 88, dunno if that's a dealbreaker.

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