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#2974966 - 02/10/19 02:55 PM VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie
LilyM Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 23
I've been waiting a long time time to upgrade my original VB3 and finally had some time to demo VB3II and Blue 3II. There's no demo that I am aware of for B5 and I guess I would rather stay with modeled vst (although I have no rational reason for that).

Anyway it was quite a roller coaster. I started with Blue 3, just scrolling through presets and it sounded great but didn't knock me out (although I thought the Jimmy Smith preset was particularly sweet!). But then switching to VB3, I was even less knocked out... all the same presets from VB3I and definitely wasn't sure it was an improvement.

So I jammed for a while with both and went back and forth, opinion wise. And I came to really like both a lot. Finally I set up identical sounds/settings for both and did some serious A-Bing. I think actually they are both great, but maybe VB3II has a little more edge and aggressiveness, which works for me. However I MUCH prefer the Leslie on Blue 3. The fast setting on VB3II just doesn't work for me at all... it seems more vibrato-y than doppler-y and too intense.

I will look more into possibly tweaking that... and am open to suggestions. However I know many have posted about really liking Amplitube Leslie. As there is no demo for Amplitube Leslie and it's obviously an additional expense, I'd love to hear about others experience with it and VB3II and or Blue 3II.

I guess barring what I find with trying to tweak the VB3II leslie, if I just had to choose VB3II or Blue 3II as is, I'd have to go with Blue 3II as I much prefer the leslie. But there is just something subtle about the sound of VB3II that I THINK I prefer, so that if the Amplitube Leslie solves that problem and is worth the extra expense, I would probably go with that.

Let me also just say that I don't have a tremendous amount of experience playing a real B3 and Leslie, so I could be way off the mark in terms of being true to the original...I can just say what sounds good to me in my set up. But I appreciate any and all help and advice.















Edited by LilyM (02/10/19 05:39 PM)

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#2974969 - 02/10/19 03:01 PM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM]
JoJoB3 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/04/13
Posts: 399
Originally Posted By: LilyM
I've been waiting a long time time to upgrade my original VB3 and finally had some time to demo VB3II and Blue 3II. There's no demo that I am aware of for B5 and I guess I would rather stay with modeled vst (although I have no rational reason for that).

Anyway it was quite a roller coaster. I started with Blue 3, just scrolling through presets and it sounded great but didn't knock me out (although I thought the Jimmy Smith preset was right on the mark!). But then switching to VB3, I was even less knocked out... all the same presets from VB3I and definitely wasn't sure it was an improvement.

So I jammed for a while with both and went back and forth, opinion wise. And I came to really like both a lot. Finally I set up identical sounds/settings for both and did some serious A-Bing. I think actually they are both great, but maybe VB3II has a little more edge and aggressiveness, which works for me. However I MUCH prefer the Leslie on Blue 3. The fast setting on VB3II just doesn't work for me at all... it seems more vibrato-y than doppler-y and too intense.

I will look more into possibly tweaking that... and am open to suggestions. However I know many have posted about really liking Amplitube Leslie. As there is no demo for Amplitube Leslie and it's obviously an additional expense, I'd love to hear about others experience with it and VB3II and or Blue 3II.

I guess barring what I find with trying to tweak the VB3II leslie, if I just had to choose VB3II or Blue 3II as is, I'd have to go with Blue 3II as I much prefer the leslie. But there is just something subtle about the sound of VB3II that I THINK I prefer, so that if the Amplitube Leslie solves that problem and is worth the extra expense, I would probably go with that.

Let me also just say that I don't have a tremendous amount of experience playing a real B3 and Leslie, so I could be way off the mark in terms of being true to the original...I can just say what sounds good to me in my set up. But I appreciate any and all help and advice.















At $79 some odd bucks for B5...I can easily say you're missing out on the better sim. Every bit of it smokes VB3 orig and latest (and Blue). The leslie sim in it alone is worth the price.

https://www.acousticsamples.net/B5

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#2974994 - 02/10/19 06:19 PM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: JoJoB3]
LilyM Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 23
Originally Posted By: JoJoB3

At $79 some odd bucks for B5...I can easily say you're missing out on the better sim. Every bit of it smokes VB3 orig and latest (and Blue). The leslie sim in it alone is worth the price.

OK, I appreciate that. I have read various forum threads on all three, particularly Blue 3 vs B5 and didn't get a sense that people were raving disproportionally about B5. And I thought there seemed to be a feeling maybe B5 was a bit more suited to jazz/gospel? But I definitely respect your opinion. I know $79 is not a huge amount, but I sure wish there was a demo.

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#2975013 - 02/10/19 07:51 PM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM]
JoJoB3 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/04/13
Posts: 399
Originally Posted By: LilyM
Originally Posted By: JoJoB3

At $79 some odd bucks for B5...I can easily say you're missing out on the better sim. Every bit of it smokes VB3 orig and latest (and Blue). The leslie sim in it alone is worth the price.

OK, I appreciate that. I have read various forum threads on all three, particularly Blue 3 vs B5 and didn't get a sense that people were raving disproportionally about B5. And I thought there seemed to be a feeling maybe B5 was a bit more suited to jazz/gospel? But I definitely respect your opinion. I know $79 is not a huge amount, but I sure wish there was a demo.


Well I still haul the real thing around and have yet to be (really) wow'd by the clones and vst so far (they serve a purpose). But with 3 different vintage 3-type Hammonds and 3 22-type leslies here I can say this is probably one of the closest. The package works (and you can use it with any keys you have/like). I guess the hurdle left is your way to run and amplify it.

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#2975025 - 02/10/19 10:13 PM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: JoJoB3]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 9339
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
B5 is hybrid sim/samples, and don't forget Arturia's new foray, which like most of their products, will evolve over time (unlike most sample libraries). My recollection is that Arturia's clonewheel is 100% modeling, but I haven't used it recently as I have a Hammond XK-1c and still find the chorus/vibrato and percussion/keyclick superior.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (02/10/19 10:14 PM)
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#2975030 - 02/11/19 12:28 AM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Mark Schmieder]
EricBarker Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/25/18
Posts: 318
My feeling is that all these products produce their own flavor that may not be great for everything. B5-2 is amazing and organic, and wonderful for jazz and blues. However, the leslie overdrive is subtle and really isn't capable of producing a really ballsy/grindy crunch. VB3 is capable of a lot more high-gain, but the quality of its tube drive makes it very high and buzzy. Old B4-ii is capable of even more grind and grit, but its organ sim and leslie aren't as natural. One of my favorite driven organ tones I made with an Alesis QS8, which has NOTHING on modern sims, it just ended up coming together. I have little experience with Blue, and I found Arturia's interface to be limited and (frankly) unusable, so it's hard to comment on those. I use Arturia hardware, but I find their software to have serious UI issues. (though Pigments is surprisingly good).

My favorite software combination is B5-2 and Melda Vintage Rotary. I think that smokes everything else I've owned (including my VB3-outfitted Mojo61). But both of those are pretty CPU intensive, and using a separately Leslie plugin can sometimes be difficult to setup and control. I just really wish B5 had more options for tube drive character, I'm not crazy about the current sound... then again, neither am I with VB3s either.
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#2975035 - 02/11/19 03:07 AM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: EricBarker]
JoJoB3 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/04/13
Posts: 399
Originally Posted By: EricBarker
My feeling is that all these products produce their own flavor that may not be great for everything. B5-2 is amazing and organic, and wonderful for jazz and blues.



?
Just jazz and blues? Whaaa?

Nevermind. Edit - to each their own.

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#2975048 - 02/11/19 04:58 AM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: JoJoB3]
RoadHousePiano Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/12/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Long Island, NY
@EricBarker, I dig the B5 and Melda Rotary combo as well. I find that the Melda isn't too CPU hungry but the B5 seems to be the culprit for me. I really liked VB3 v1, haven't tried V2.
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#2975057 - 02/11/19 06:13 AM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: RoadHousePiano]
Al Quinn Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/13/14
Posts: 1262
Loc: Center Moriches, NY
Iím currently using VB3 II with the Líotory sim. I also have B5 and Blue 3 (and also Mojo, HX3, and A100/Leslie 145).

After hearing JoJoB3ís B5 video in a different thread on this forum Iím going to revisit my preference: great sound and excellent playing JoJoB3!
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#2975059 - 02/11/19 06:30 AM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Al Quinn]
Reezekeys Offline
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Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 3052
Loc: NYC area
Kinda telling that oftentimes what renews peoples' interest in a good VI is how they're played, not always how good or "better than x" they purportedly sound. IOW it's the artist, not the brush.

/broken record

PS - I would suck equally on Blue 3, VB3 and B5!

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#2975062 - 02/11/19 07:05 AM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Reezekeys]
Delaware Dave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 3309
Loc: Take a guess ....
I guess it all depends on your measuring stick. Some people just like a sim because it is what they prefer in a sound. I measure a sim against how it sounds as compared to my 122. I may or may not like everything about the 122, and if there were some area that I wish it sounded better at and found a leslie sim that improved that area I might be able to say well this leslie sounds better; in reality that is not what I do at all; I play my B3/122 frequently and when I jump on a clone I wanted it to sound like that sound, not improve some aspect of the sound. So when I hear people say this sounds better than that I'm skeptical because I don't know that the standard is that the person's opinion is being measured against. That is why I prefer to hear it myself and in my mind I compare it to my 122.
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#2975087 - 02/11/19 10:19 AM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Delaware Dave]
LilyM Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 23
Yeah, I sure get the subjective nature of all of this.. but really appreciate the input. I guess my biggest question was regarding the fast Leslie setting in VB3II... I haven't really heard other complaints about it so doubting myself, but I don't think it's at all usable for me as it is.

It was the same with B4II way back in the day as @EricBarker brought up. B4 was great for its day and II was maybe a nice update, however the distortion in II was absolutely unusable for me, as others also noted at the time...but of course for others not a deal breaker.

I also agree it is the player! I have no doubt @JoJoB3 will sound way way better on the worst of sims than me on the best. I'm mainly a piano player at heart and have only occasionally played a real B3/Leslie when the venue has one in their back line. So just tying to find any edge I can with a B3 sim.

So anyway this is where it seems to stand for me...

B5 No demo...Seems to be the most realistic, but a bit tougher to get to scream than others. a bit heavier on cpu.. and ILOK

Arturia B-3 Really??? I have this. Sound might be ok or realistic or whatever..but I get no joy playing it whatsoever.

Blue 3 Seems to get a lot of support on various forums. As an overall package, seems to have it most together...from gui to preset mgr to playability, to protection scheme (although again I haven't demoed B5). I think maybe it is ever so subtly just a bit synthy/modeled sounding. Saw someone mention that the 147 models give a bit more raw sound so gonna work on that today.

VB3 I may be a bit too loyal...or too invested, as I have been waiting on this update for years! But I seem to like playing this best...But again, the fast Leslie makes it unusable for me...I will see what I can do about tweaking it today.

I guess I would really rather not have to buy and have a separate Leslie, but if it is going to make a big difference I will go that route. I wasn't so aware of Melda Rotary but will check it out. I just seemed to hear most people raving about Amplitube. But whatever it is, it seems most are using some separate Leslie, regardless of sim as well?


Edited by LilyM (02/11/19 10:22 AM)

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#2975105 - 02/11/19 11:37 AM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM]
MPN21 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/11/16
Posts: 72
I was looking into purchasing Melda Vintage Rotary, but after I heard demos on T-RackS Leslie, I knew that it would be the only rotary sim I need. Sure enough, all my plug-ins such as VB3, B4 II, B5, and my NC2x sounded just right through it for me. It's a bit pricey but worth it.

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#2975275 - 02/12/19 06:00 AM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM]
Al Quinn Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/13/14
Posts: 1262
Loc: Center Moriches, NY
Originally Posted By: LilyM
I guess my biggest question was regarding the fast Leslie setting in VB3II... I haven't really heard other complaints about it so doubting myself, but I don't think it's at all usable for me as it is.

I also find VB3 IIís Leslie sim unusable. So, I use Líotory instead with the VB3 II software plugin on my MacBook Pro and when playing the dual manual Mojo I use a Vent 2.
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#2975283 - 02/12/19 06:40 AM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Al Quinn]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3190
Loc: Australia
Amplitude is the new kid on the block. Melda has been around longest and L'otary came out a couple of years ago. I have both Melda and L'otary and rate L'otary as being marginally better than Melda.

But L'otary is CPU intensive so I use the sim in B5. It gives me all the overdrive I need and realistic fast and slow. If you want the Marshall stack distortion then Air's DB33 gives you that straight out of the box, but otherwise it is rubbish.

As for iLok everything you read on the net will include a rant about how it has eat everyone's lunch. I would rather not use it or any copy protection scheme but if using it is the only way I can access some excellent VI's then I can live with it.

When I did a machine upgrade and in error reformatted the HDD without deauthorising my 30 or so iLok VI's I wrote to each vendor explaining the situation. The first vendor triggered a reset to zero for their and many other vendor's iLok authorizations. The balance reset their licenses in my iLok account within 4 hours of the request.

Ilok on disc licensing has its advantages and has never caused any issues for me.

VI's devs have a choice, spend their time on building VI's or constantly updating a copy protection scheme.



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#2975425 - 02/12/19 04:53 PM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Markay]
JoJoB3 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/04/13
Posts: 399
Just a note, no iLok dongles necessary, just the iLok manager install.

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#2975440 - 02/12/19 07:44 PM Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: JoJoB3]
LilyM Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 23
Yeah, I don't really think iLok is a deal breaker, for me anyway. And actually I listened to some of @JoJoB3's demos of B5 and it really does sound fantastic. But ultimately its all about how it actually feels to sit down and and play it. And unfortunately no demo for B5... and I keep hearing from many people who have played it that it's really perfectly suited for jazz and gospel/blues, but doesn't quite wail like VB3 and Blue3 for rock. But I am still intrigued.


Edited by LilyM (02/12/19 07:44 PM)

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