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VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie #2974966 02/10/19 07:55 PM
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LilyM Offline OP
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I've been waiting a long time time to upgrade my original VB3 and finally had some time to demo VB3II and Blue 3II. There's no demo that I am aware of for B5 and I guess I would rather stay with modeled vst (although I have no rational reason for that).

Anyway it was quite a roller coaster. I started with Blue 3, just scrolling through presets and it sounded great but didn't knock me out (although I thought the Jimmy Smith preset was particularly sweet!). But then switching to VB3, I was even less knocked out... all the same presets from VB3I and definitely wasn't sure it was an improvement.

So I jammed for a while with both and went back and forth, opinion wise. And I came to really like both a lot. Finally I set up identical sounds/settings for both and did some serious A-Bing. I think actually they are both great, but maybe VB3II has a little more edge and aggressiveness, which works for me. However I MUCH prefer the Leslie on Blue 3. The fast setting on VB3II just doesn't work for me at all... it seems more vibrato-y than doppler-y and too intense.

I will look more into possibly tweaking that... and am open to suggestions. However I know many have posted about really liking Amplitube Leslie. As there is no demo for Amplitube Leslie and it's obviously an additional expense, I'd love to hear about others experience with it and VB3II and or Blue 3II.

I guess barring what I find with trying to tweak the VB3II leslie, if I just had to choose VB3II or Blue 3II as is, I'd have to go with Blue 3II as I much prefer the leslie. But there is just something subtle about the sound of VB3II that I THINK I prefer, so that if the Amplitube Leslie solves that problem and is worth the extra expense, I would probably go with that.

Let me also just say that I don't have a tremendous amount of experience playing a real B3 and Leslie, so I could be way off the mark in terms of being true to the original...I can just say what sounds good to me in my set up. But I appreciate any and all help and advice.














Last edited by LilyM; 02/10/19 10:39 PM.
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Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM] #2974969 02/10/19 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: LilyM
I've been waiting a long time time to upgrade my original VB3 and finally had some time to demo VB3II and Blue 3II. There's no demo that I am aware of for B5 and I guess I would rather stay with modeled vst (although I have no rational reason for that).

Anyway it was quite a roller coaster. I started with Blue 3, just scrolling through presets and it sounded great but didn't knock me out (although I thought the Jimmy Smith preset was right on the mark!). But then switching to VB3, I was even less knocked out... all the same presets from VB3I and definitely wasn't sure it was an improvement.

So I jammed for a while with both and went back and forth, opinion wise. And I came to really like both a lot. Finally I set up identical sounds/settings for both and did some serious A-Bing. I think actually they are both great, but maybe VB3II has a little more edge and aggressiveness, which works for me. However I MUCH prefer the Leslie on Blue 3. The fast setting on VB3II just doesn't work for me at all... it seems more vibrato-y than doppler-y and too intense.

I will look more into possibly tweaking that... and am open to suggestions. However I know many have posted about really liking Amplitube Leslie. As there is no demo for Amplitube Leslie and it's obviously an additional expense, I'd love to hear about others experience with it and VB3II and or Blue 3II.

I guess barring what I find with trying to tweak the VB3II leslie, if I just had to choose VB3II or Blue 3II as is, I'd have to go with Blue 3II as I much prefer the leslie. But there is just something subtle about the sound of VB3II that I THINK I prefer, so that if the Amplitube Leslie solves that problem and is worth the extra expense, I would probably go with that.

Let me also just say that I don't have a tremendous amount of experience playing a real B3 and Leslie, so I could be way off the mark in terms of being true to the original...I can just say what sounds good to me in my set up. But I appreciate any and all help and advice.















At $79 some odd bucks for B5...I can easily say you're missing out on the better sim. Every bit of it smokes VB3 orig and latest (and Blue). The leslie sim in it alone is worth the price.

https://www.acousticsamples.net/B5

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: JoJoB3] #2974994 02/10/19 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: JoJoB3

At $79 some odd bucks for B5...I can easily say you're missing out on the better sim. Every bit of it smokes VB3 orig and latest (and Blue). The leslie sim in it alone is worth the price.

OK, I appreciate that. I have read various forum threads on all three, particularly Blue 3 vs B5 and didn't get a sense that people were raving disproportionally about B5. And I thought there seemed to be a feeling maybe B5 was a bit more suited to jazz/gospel? But I definitely respect your opinion. I know $79 is not a huge amount, but I sure wish there was a demo.

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM] #2975013 02/11/19 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: LilyM
Originally Posted By: JoJoB3

At $79 some odd bucks for B5...I can easily say you're missing out on the better sim. Every bit of it smokes VB3 orig and latest (and Blue). The leslie sim in it alone is worth the price.

OK, I appreciate that. I have read various forum threads on all three, particularly Blue 3 vs B5 and didn't get a sense that people were raving disproportionally about B5. And I thought there seemed to be a feeling maybe B5 was a bit more suited to jazz/gospel? But I definitely respect your opinion. I know $79 is not a huge amount, but I sure wish there was a demo.


Well I still haul the real thing around and have yet to be (really) wow'd by the clones and vst so far (they serve a purpose). But with 3 different vintage 3-type Hammonds and 3 22-type leslies here I can say this is probably one of the closest. The package works (and you can use it with any keys you have/like). I guess the hurdle left is your way to run and amplify it.

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: JoJoB3] #2975025 02/11/19 03:13 AM
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B5 is hybrid sim/samples, and don't forget Arturia's new foray, which like most of their products, will evolve over time (unlike most sample libraries). My recollection is that Arturia's clonewheel is 100% modeling, but I haven't used it recently as I have a Hammond XK-1c and still find the chorus/vibrato and percussion/keyclick superior.

Last edited by Mark Schmieder; 02/11/19 03:14 AM.

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Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2975030 02/11/19 05:28 AM
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My feeling is that all these products produce their own flavor that may not be great for everything. B5-2 is amazing and organic, and wonderful for jazz and blues. However, the leslie overdrive is subtle and really isn't capable of producing a really ballsy/grindy crunch. VB3 is capable of a lot more high-gain, but the quality of its tube drive makes it very high and buzzy. Old B4-ii is capable of even more grind and grit, but its organ sim and leslie aren't as natural. One of my favorite driven organ tones I made with an Alesis QS8, which has NOTHING on modern sims, it just ended up coming together. I have little experience with Blue, and I found Arturia's interface to be limited and (frankly) unusable, so it's hard to comment on those. I use Arturia hardware, but I find their software to have serious UI issues. (though Pigments is surprisingly good).

My favorite software combination is B5-2 and Melda Vintage Rotary. I think that smokes everything else I've owned (including my VB3-outfitted Mojo61). But both of those are pretty CPU intensive, and using a separately Leslie plugin can sometimes be difficult to setup and control. I just really wish B5 had more options for tube drive character, I'm not crazy about the current sound... then again, neither am I with VB3s either.


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Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: EricBarker] #2975035 02/11/19 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: EricBarker
My feeling is that all these products produce their own flavor that may not be great for everything. B5-2 is amazing and organic, and wonderful for jazz and blues.



?
Just jazz and blues? Whaaa?

Nevermind. Edit - to each their own.

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: JoJoB3] #2975048 02/11/19 09:58 AM
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@EricBarker, I dig the B5 and Melda Rotary combo as well. I find that the Melda isn't too CPU hungry but the B5 seems to be the culprit for me. I really liked VB3 v1, haven't tried V2.


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Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: RoadHousePiano] #2975057 02/11/19 11:13 AM
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Iím currently using VB3 II with the Líotory sim. I also have B5 and Blue 3 (and also Mojo, HX3, and A100/Leslie 145).

After hearing JoJoB3ís B5 video in a different thread on this forum Iím going to revisit my preference: great sound and excellent playing JoJoB3!

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Al Quinn] #2975059 02/11/19 11:30 AM
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Kinda telling that oftentimes what renews peoples' interest in a good VI is how they're played, not always how good or "better than x" they purportedly sound. IOW it's the artist, not the brush.

/broken record

PS - I would suck equally on Blue 3, VB3 and B5!

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Reezekeys] #2975062 02/11/19 12:05 PM
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I guess it all depends on your measuring stick. Some people just like a sim because it is what they prefer in a sound. I measure a sim against how it sounds as compared to my 122. I may or may not like everything about the 122, and if there were some area that I wish it sounded better at and found a leslie sim that improved that area I might be able to say well this leslie sounds better; in reality that is not what I do at all; I play my B3/122 frequently and when I jump on a clone I wanted it to sound like that sound, not improve some aspect of the sound. So when I hear people say this sounds better than that I'm skeptical because I don't know that the standard is that the person's opinion is being measured against. That is why I prefer to hear it myself and in my mind I compare it to my 122.


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Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Delaware Dave] #2975087 02/11/19 03:19 PM
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Yeah, I sure get the subjective nature of all of this.. but really appreciate the input. I guess my biggest question was regarding the fast Leslie setting in VB3II... I haven't really heard other complaints about it so doubting myself, but I don't think it's at all usable for me as it is.

It was the same with B4II way back in the day as @EricBarker brought up. B4 was great for its day and II was maybe a nice update, however the distortion in II was absolutely unusable for me, as others also noted at the time...but of course for others not a deal breaker.

I also agree it is the player! I have no doubt @JoJoB3 will sound way way better on the worst of sims than me on the best. I'm mainly a piano player at heart and have only occasionally played a real B3/Leslie when the venue has one in their back line. So just tying to find any edge I can with a B3 sim.

So anyway this is where it seems to stand for me...

B5 No demo...Seems to be the most realistic, but a bit tougher to get to scream than others. a bit heavier on cpu.. and ILOK

Arturia B-3 Really??? I have this. Sound might be ok or realistic or whatever..but I get no joy playing it whatsoever.

Blue 3 Seems to get a lot of support on various forums. As an overall package, seems to have it most together...from gui to preset mgr to playability, to protection scheme (although again I haven't demoed B5). I think maybe it is ever so subtly just a bit synthy/modeled sounding. Saw someone mention that the 147 models give a bit more raw sound so gonna work on that today.

VB3 I may be a bit too loyal...or too invested, as I have been waiting on this update for years! But I seem to like playing this best...But again, the fast Leslie makes it unusable for me...I will see what I can do about tweaking it today.

I guess I would really rather not have to buy and have a separate Leslie, but if it is going to make a big difference I will go that route. I wasn't so aware of Melda Rotary but will check it out. I just seemed to hear most people raving about Amplitube. But whatever it is, it seems most are using some separate Leslie, regardless of sim as well?

Last edited by LilyM; 02/11/19 03:22 PM.
Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM] #2975105 02/11/19 04:37 PM
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I was looking into purchasing Melda Vintage Rotary, but after I heard demos on T-RackS Leslie, I knew that it would be the only rotary sim I need. Sure enough, all my plug-ins such as VB3, B4 II, B5, and my NC2x sounded just right through it for me. It's a bit pricey but worth it.

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM] #2975275 02/12/19 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: LilyM
I guess my biggest question was regarding the fast Leslie setting in VB3II... I haven't really heard other complaints about it so doubting myself, but I don't think it's at all usable for me as it is.

I also find VB3 IIís Leslie sim unusable. So, I use Líotory instead with the VB3 II software plugin on my MacBook Pro and when playing the dual manual Mojo I use a Vent 2.

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Al Quinn] #2975283 02/12/19 11:40 AM
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Amplitude is the new kid on the block. Melda has been around longest and L'otary came out a couple of years ago. I have both Melda and L'otary and rate L'otary as being marginally better than Melda.

But L'otary is CPU intensive so I use the sim in B5. It gives me all the overdrive I need and realistic fast and slow. If you want the Marshall stack distortion then Air's DB33 gives you that straight out of the box, but otherwise it is rubbish.

As for iLok everything you read on the net will include a rant about how it has eat everyone's lunch. I would rather not use it or any copy protection scheme but if using it is the only way I can access some excellent VI's then I can live with it.

When I did a machine upgrade and in error reformatted the HDD without deauthorising my 30 or so iLok VI's I wrote to each vendor explaining the situation. The first vendor triggered a reset to zero for their and many other vendor's iLok authorizations. The balance reset their licenses in my iLok account within 4 hours of the request.

Ilok on disc licensing has its advantages and has never caused any issues for me.

VI's devs have a choice, spend their time on building VI's or constantly updating a copy protection scheme.





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Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Markay] #2975425 02/12/19 09:53 PM
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Just a note, no iLok dongles necessary, just the iLok manager install.

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: JoJoB3] #2975440 02/13/19 12:44 AM
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Yeah, I don't really think iLok is a deal breaker, for me anyway. And actually I listened to some of @JoJoB3's demos of B5 and it really does sound fantastic. But ultimately its all about how it actually feels to sit down and and play it. And unfortunately no demo for B5... and I keep hearing from many people who have played it that it's really perfectly suited for jazz and gospel/blues, but doesn't quite wail like VB3 and Blue3 for rock. But I am still intrigued.

Last edited by LilyM; 02/13/19 12:44 AM.
Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM] #2991686 05/29/19 12:48 AM
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If no one objects, I'd like to bump this thread back to the top as I am looking to update my B3 VST(s) within the next few days. I currently have VB3 vi and can upgrade for $87.50 based on current euro to usd rate. Blue 3 is $99, and B5 would be around $110 based on exchange. So price is a marginal consideration if any. I'm more interested in who's got the best sim currently.

My impressions (based mostly on what I've read here) are that B5 is better at Jazz and Gospel and is sample-based - which would make it more CPU intensive. Blue 3 is more rock and roll growly - does Deep Purple sounding B3 well. VB3 has an upgrade now and I've heard good things - like the Leslie sim is better - except from the OP who doesn't seem to like the high speed setting. BTW, LilyM; did you ever determine if you could make adjustments in the Leslie sim high speed setting or not? Others in this thread have mentioned external Leslie sims such as Amplitude, L'otory, Melda, etc. Anything changed on this front?

I've listened to the audio files and YouTube videos on all that I can muster and no one VST stands out head and shoulders above the rest to me anyway. They all sound incredible. Having a hard time trying to make a decision. Looking for input. This thread is only a little over 3 months old, but I also thought some of the original posters may have more to contribute now or updates may have changed opinions. So let's hear what you think currently about the staple of VST B3 sims.

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: midinut] #2991713 05/29/19 10:25 AM
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I'm hoping to play with some of the demos for these things over the next couple of weeks. Besides some of the one you mentioned, also UVI Rotary. And also, some mix-and match, which compounds the eval process, i.e. you could compare VB3 and Blue3 to each other, not just each through their own sims, but each through other sims like AmpliTube and UVI Rotary as well. Blue3's Rotary is separately addressable, so in that case you could also try VB3 through Blue3's rotary. And of course, each of the sims have adjustments. And one might want to compare how they sound in a stereo recording, but also through a mono live rig. It could take a while...


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Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: AnotherScott] #2991748 05/29/19 02:39 PM
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Does anyone happen to know when the AmpliTube Leslie sale price ends?


Dennis
Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: Dnsmo] #2991808 05/29/19 11:21 PM
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I have VB3 II, B5, Arturia B3 and of course the Apple Vintage organ.
I have demoed Blue3.

I seem to gravitate mostly to B5.

By the way, live I use an Electro 5D; although for years I played shows using VB3.


Tom
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Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: analogman1] #2991810 05/29/19 11:44 PM
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Honestly, they all sound great.
Depends on your taste and what organ you're comparing them to...
Every B3/C3/A100 combination with a given Leslie, is going to sound slightly different...

you really couldnt go wrong with any of them.


Tom
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Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: midinut] #2992245 06/03/19 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: midinut
BTW, LilyM; did you ever determine if you could make adjustments in the Leslie sim high speed setting or not?


Actually Guido got right back to me with suggestions to tweak the fast leslie. I'll find them and post as soon as I can find them. They made some difference for sure, but not enough really for me. In the end I kinda gave up and am still playing VB3 VI. Neither VB3 VII or Blue 3 blew me away enough to want to fork over the money to replace VB3 I. That and the fact that I just couldn't make up my mind which I liked better. I really wish I could demo B5.

I am considering however buying Amplitude Leslie, as there is one more day of sale price of $79. If I do, I will try the whole process anew...and let you know.

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM] #2992248 06/03/19 01:12 AM
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That would be great. I went ahead and picked up Blue 3 but haven't had a chance to spend any time with it yet. I still have VB2 but it runs in 32 bit and I don't have a wrapper to make it work in 64 bit. I can still pick up VB3 VII at the discount if I need to. As analogman1 said, you really can't go wrong with any of them.

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: midinut] #2992254 06/03/19 01:53 AM
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Hey Guys, which "Amplitube Leslie" is the best setup? I'm asking because they offer it in a few configurations (Amplitube and T Racks).
Just don't know which is better. I user LogicPro X, Mainstage, and Gig Performer to name a few...
Do I need T Racks...or will the Amplitube Leslie run alone without it?
It's kinda unclear...


Tom
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Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: analogman1] #2992310 06/03/19 01:25 PM
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From this thread https://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/ikforum/viewtopic.php?t=14883

T-RackS Leslie:
-- is a single plug-in, which will run in a DAW, T-RackS 5 (the (free) Custom Shop program or a paid-for edition) or the TR5 Suite plug-in,
-- the GUI has 3 panels,
-- the first panel is for the Setup, Amp and EQ controls
-- the second is for selection of amp (from 5) and cab (from 6) and for mic positioning,
-- and the third is for mic mixing,
-- the Amp controls look generic.
AmpliTube Leslie:
-- is 11 separate gear models: 5 Leslie Amps and 6 Leslie rotary-speaker cabinets
-- they can only be loaded into the AmpliTube program or plug-in (the free Custom Shop program or a paid-for edition, v4 onwards),
-- in AT4 CS the Cab Room GUI will look and be simpler (as for other AT cabinet models),
-- the Amp controls are on each AMP GUI, which look like the different models,
-- pop-out panels on the Cabs show Cabinet selection, mic mixing, EQ, (and speaker and room browser?),
-- you can (when released) download full working models from the AmpliTube Custom Shop and try them out free of charge,
-- I presume that they can be mixed and matched with other AT4 gear models.

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM] #2992602 06/04/19 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: LilyM
there is no demo for Amplitube Leslie

from https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/atleslie/?pkey=amplitube-leslie

Quote:
Free Trial ó Amplitube Custom Shop
Only AmpliTube gives you the ability to ďtry before you buy.Ē You can download full working models of any of the AmpliTube Leslie Amp and Cab from the AmpliTube Custom Shop and try them out free of charge.

But I couldn't figure out how to get a demo of it. I tried... figured I'd give it a go while it was $79. So much for that. Odd use of the word "only" considering that I was able to get free trials of every other rotary effect I was interested in, this was the only one I couldn't.


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Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: AnotherScott] #2992609 06/04/19 11:25 PM
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Did I say that???? I actually did figure out how to demo the Amplitube Leslie.. it wasn't easy!! But I do have to say that it is, as many have said before, FANTASTIC!!! VB3II, which I wasn't that keen on, sounds amazing through Amplitube Leslie. VB3I also sounded great. Blue 3, which I really like, sounded quite weird through it. There are probably further tweaks to Blue3 to make it more compatible, but I didn't get into that. It was to much fun fun fun playing VB3II. If I hadn't missed the $79 deal I would have bought it, but at $129, VB3I is good enough for the moment.

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM] #2992611 06/04/19 11:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 43
L
LilyM Offline OP
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L
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 43
Midinut, this is what Guido wrote me about taming the fast Leslie on VB3II...
If the fast speed sounds too pulsating for you, you might try to:
- increasing the Distance parameter
- increase the Mid. Reflections parameter
- increase or reduce the Doppler Intensity just a bit

Also, a real Leslies lets a little portion of the dry signal get
through from behind the speakers, you might want to adjust this using
the Dry Leak and Bass Port parameters.
The Cabinet parameter lets you adjust the amount of wooden cabinet
that is mixed into the sound.

Re: VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie [Re: LilyM] #2992615 06/05/19 12:03 AM
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analogman1 Offline
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I could not get a working demo of the Amplitube Leslie, either....
So I'm gonna forget it for now.....


Tom
Nord Electro 5D, Yamaha upright piano, numerous plug-ins
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