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The one Hammond sound I can't stand... #2974370
02/07/19 10:24 PM
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Sundown Offline OP
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We all love Hammond organs, but one of the few timbres I can't stomach can be heard in this clip at 1:38.

I'm certainly no expert, but it sounds like the high drawbars are active, vibrato is active, and the Leslie is active. The sound really cuts, but so do nails on a chalkboard.

I've heard Joey DeFranceso use it on rare occasion, but it's just not a sound I like.



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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Sundown] #2974380
02/07/19 10:44 PM
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making all kind of friends today, aren't we? smile


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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: davedoerfler] #2974386
02/07/19 10:58 PM
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" but one of the few timbres I can't stomach can be heard in this clip at 1:38."

You're squabbling about nothing.

Busch.

Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: burningbusch] #2974391
02/07/19 11:06 PM
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CEB Offline
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800008888. It is used a lot. In Squabbling and non-squabble situation.

Songs like Liitle Feat's Spanish Moon and a in Smashmouth's Walking On the Sun. No other registration sounds right when you need that sound. In these cases I don't consider it squabbling. In my mind squabbling is the playing technique and not the registration. Judging from past discussions I'm probably in the minority on this point but I'm still right.

Last edited by CEB; 02/07/19 11:10 PM.

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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: CEB] #2974393
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both fantastic songs. As always, Ed, love your avatars. thu


"Use what works. Gear is overrated." CEB
Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: davedoerfler] #2974396
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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: CEB] #2974402
02/07/19 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: CEB
80 0008 888. It is used a lot. In Squabbling and non-squabble situations.

Thank you! I LOVE this sound, but was never able to pinpoint the registration. I leave the perc on a lot, so that would be one reason.

Poster is wrong, this sound is fantastic!

BTW: I never noticed the B3 in Walking on the Sun, obviously heard the Vox, now I'll have to figure it out. Sounds like a few of the upper drawbars are a little lower, maybe 80 0008 855 or something. Fantastic song though.


"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio."

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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: EricBarker] #2974408
02/08/19 12:02 AM
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I know its not exactly the same sound, but it reminds of the the theme from "Dave Allen at Large" which is as good enough reason as any to post a link to it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2DbF7qUO1k

Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Sundown] #2974413
02/08/19 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sundown

I'm certainly no expert

Right.


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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: EricBarker] #2974423
02/08/19 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: EricBarker

BTW: I never noticed the B3 in Walking on the Sun, obviously heard the Vox, now I'll have to figure it out.

OT
when I saw them live many years ago the keyboard player was using an Alesis Andromeda for the organ parts. No idea what was used in the studio


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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Sundown] #2974429
02/08/19 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sundown

We all love Hammond organs, but one of the few timbres I can't stomach can be heard in this clip at 1:38.


As everyone knows it is called squabble. Its 'happy'. A little bit like a corny 'ragtime' ambience. It is used, imo, as a 'changeup' to take the 'ear' away from the normal Hammond 888000000/percussion (Hammond is not a theater/theatre organ with a variety of sounds) and other common registrations not to wear out the listener so the when it goes back to the common registrations they sound good Some songs focus around it mainly like a 'Mac The Knife' . It IS cornball in my opinion though it depends who plays it. Though, imo, ragtime piano played well is not cornball but I do have musician friends who hate that too. Squabble does have a 'changup' purpose.

WH

Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: WheelHead] #2974430
02/08/19 01:38 AM
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...and the example video you've chosen.

SMH

Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: JoJoB3] #2974466
02/08/19 11:09 AM
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Take a guess ....
I use it often.....


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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: JoJoB3] #2974490
02/08/19 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: JoJoB3
...and the example video you've chosen.

SMH


To be fair, I was checking out an XB-5, and I just happened to hear the sound. Iím sure a genuine tonewheel would have been a better example.


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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Sundown] #2974492
02/08/19 12:25 PM
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I like the sound in an ensemble context. It cuts through appropriately. I'm more of a fan when it's funkier. Generally the the part I don't prefer about the squabble is the technique - not a performance I like. But The sound is great.

Now, a leslie on Stop is a sound I dislike (especially for an extended time). But, I think I may be in the minority on that opinion.

Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: ABECK] #2974498
02/08/19 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: ABECK
Now, a leslie on Stop is a sound I dislike (especially for an extended time).

+1. I'm sure I'm in that same minority...


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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Delaware Dave] #2974505
02/08/19 01:08 PM
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As far as the sound on stop - a lot of that is according to the setting. For most Rock settings it might sound too dry, although it certainly works for Steve Winwood. For Jazz settings where a certain amount of (soundwise) precision is called for, using the chorale setting smears the sound too much. I remember hearing a few jazz recordings where "something doesn't sound right, there" and upon closer inspection it was that the Leslie was on chorale. But in actuality none of us are wrong and all of us are right as long as we don't insist that our opinion is the only correct one.

Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: BenWaB3] #2974506
02/08/19 01:10 PM
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Love squabbling! A little off the beaten path which I picked up from Breaking Bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxf1IFgPH5s

Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: SteinwayB] #2974509
02/08/19 01:13 PM
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What gets to me is someone setting the Leslie to fast, and just leaving it there. Sorry, but the Leslie has to be Played to be appreciated


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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Sundown] #2974512
02/08/19 01:16 PM
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Synthoid Online content
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Isn't there a British dish called squabble and squeak? laugh


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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: SteinwayB] #2974515
02/08/19 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: SteinwayB
A little off the beaten path which I picked up from Breaking Bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxf1IFgPH5s
I know I'm a Hammond geek because that performance of "On a Clear Day" also stopped me in my tracks when I saw that episode, and a few other major events were also happening at that point in the show!


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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Synthoid] #2974517
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I don't really like playing with percussion *runs away*

Granted, I'd never, ever call myself an organist. I tend to play chords more as background in my band, so that may be why...I like being the "glue" more than I do soloing.

I do appreciate the sound of it sometimes, various ELP and tunes like Green Eyed Lady being prominent examples.

I also tend to not use chorus and vibrato, but part of that is I don't play on a real organ and it sounds iffy on the keyboards I use.

I was just listening to the Point of Know Return album by Kansas...that's a great rock organ tone he's got there.

Last edited by Stokely; 02/08/19 01:27 PM.
Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Synthoid] #2974518
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I love the squabble, but IMO you have to treat it like you would a party trick and never pull it out more than once a night, in one part of one song. Overdo it and it sounds like cheese.

I am learning to love the "stop" sound, but I am not yet skilled enough to make it work over long sections of a solo or song; I use it right now as a color in a much broader palette. But that moment of starkness can be really effective at the beginning of a solo that develops from there. I know others are much better at making it work on its own. Maybe by the time I am 80...

I am pretty active on the brake, but I notice I have two approaches. During a song, I am mostly leslie slow or even stop, with fast held in my pocket for big dynamic changes or expressive isolated phrases. When I solo I tend to reverse the equation, with more time spent on fast and slow being for beginnings and ends of phrases that I want to have greater definition.

Want to know when I use the pedals? Never. Big hole in my development. That one may have to wait for the next life.


"
Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: MathOfInsects] #2974522
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It reminds me of this organ. I asked once before: does anyone know the exact drawbar settings?



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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Synthaholic] #2974548
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I use the sound all the time, but don't squabble it. I also use brake often, but never use 88800000, different strokes.

Can't say there's an organ sound that I hate, like it all.

Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Synthaholic] #2974551
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Sundown Offline OP
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I think a true Hammond makes a much better squabble. Usually the times that it irks me the most are clone wheels.


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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Sundown] #2974553
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Delaware Dave Offline
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hmm, go to 15:15 of this video and tell me where the difference is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLKKFImRbDY


57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; www.dyinbreedband.com
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Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Delaware Dave] #2974560
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In defense of the OP, there was a time many eons ago - before I did much listening to organ players, let alone played one myself - that I did not appreciate the squabble sound either. It can be a little jarring the first time you hear it.

But now I love it...

Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: cedar] #2974562
02/08/19 05:39 PM
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I like Mike Finnigan's use of it in this video (starts around 1:30)


Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... [Re: Sundown] #2974563
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Originally Posted By: Sundown
[quote=JoJoB3]...and the example video you've chosen.

SMH


To be fair, I was checking out an XB-5, and I just happened to hear the sound. Iím sure a genuine tonewheel would have been a better example. [/quoe te]

You are a brave man to comment this way among this 1984 thought speak crowd. And you are correct, the clone Hammond, not to mention the way the demonstrator was playing the squabble... yes, I quite understand why you were turned off.

In the hands of an Erroll Garner on a real Hammond, that is another matter. But mainly kudos for your bravery.


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