Kurzweil Forte 4.0 !!!!!

[Josh Paxton]

I loaded a file that someone sent me, but I was not the one who did the re-sampling/conversion.

 

File conversions are possible if you want to load Nord samples, Scarbee samples, etc. into Flash memory on the Forte but it's not something I actually know how to do personally.

 

Color me interested in this option!

[Lady Gaia]

My interest in the Forte recently peaked.

 

Just wondering, about the sound quallity of the Kurzweil..

And while the sample memory promisses a lot..

The VAST engine its VA part as well as the VBK3 seem ancient ..

Altough i dont know how much they updated these and the dsp effects over time?

 

How would you characterise the Kurzweil sound?

 

Ive always found the Kurzweil VAST gear to have a timeless quality that most digital gear lacks. VAST synthesis is notoriously deep, which scares a lot of people away, but the ROM sample set is full of well-recorded and musical raw material that careful programming can really bring to life ... and of course a lot of people make wonderful music with either the factory programs or or ones created by other owners. VAST itself has undergone changes that arent always immediately obvious, like the ability to route signals among up to 32 layers.

 

The effects engine has had some useful additions over the years, like string resonance and improved rotary speaker emulation, but the primary improvement is the number of simultaneous effects allowed which has more than quadrupled over time. Theres also a dedicated global EQ / compressor at the end of the chain with controls on the front panel.

 

Programming riffs and arps and sequencing used to be a pain in the short time i owned a pc3x, has this imporved with the new interface?

 

The new color display on the Forte is used to reasonable effect to combine what used to be spread across two or three screens in one page in a lot of places, but the interface is otherwise not dramatically different for good and ill.

 

Whats left of the orriginal stage piano? Seems to have turned into a fullfledged workstation? How easy is it to sit down, quickly layer 3 sounds and play away, as one would expect on a stage piano?

 

The stago piano aspects remain front and center with handy mechanisms for quickly setting up splits and layers, and categorization is used to great effect for helping to find the right program. If anything, some of the workstation features are a little harder to use due to lack of dedicated buttons for the sequencer, editing and comparing, etc. These wind up repurposing the favorites buttons as function keys once youre in the appropriate mode.

[Dave Weiser]

think of another synth manufacturer that has released a v4 of *anything*

 

Nord (piano) - but many of the increments are marginal, rather than dramatic.

 

Regards, Mike

 

Motif series comes to mind (Motif Classic, Motif ES, Motif XS, Motif XF).

 

I believe Moray was actually referring to 4 major (free of charge) software updates for a single keyboard, each of which added sweeping new functionality: full synth/FX editing, then 3GB of user sample memory, then sequencer, and now FM and modulation sequencers.

 

The Nords and Motifs are indeed very cool, but those iterations are hardware - completely new instruments whose (often very cool) features can only be enjoyed with a new purchase. The contrast helps underscore the hugeness of what Kurz has done - rewarding loyal customers with the most/biggest free OS updates in the history of synth-geekery!

[Iconoclast]

So...what's going to be in 5.0?

 

;-)

 

(just had to be the first! Over in guitar land it's pretty standard to complain about the lack of the next update before the current update has even hit the street)

 

[Mighty Motif Max]

think of another synth manufacturer that has released a v4 of *anything*

 

Nord (piano) - but many of the increments are marginal, rather than dramatic.

 

Regards, Mike

 

 

Motif series comes to mind (Motif Classic, Motif ES, Motif XS, Motif XF).

 

I believe Moray was actually referring to 4 major (free of charge) software updates for a single keyboard, each of which added sweeping new functionality: full synth/FX editing, then 3GB of user sample memory, then sequencer, and now FM and modulation sequencers.

 

The Nords and Motifs are indeed very cool, but those iterations are hardware - completely new instruments whose (often very cool) features can only be enjoyed with a new purchase. The contrast helps underscore the hugeness of what Kurz has done - rewarding loyal customers with the most/biggest free OS updates in the history of synth-geekery!

 

Excellent point. Very cool.

[BluesKeys]

So I am looking for a replacement for my Motif! I have always been impressed with Kurzweil strings and horns and synth abilities. It seems the Forte started out as more a for lack of knowledge a Nord Clone if you will. With strong Pianos, usable Organ etc. I have not found much on the other sounds. Should I consider the Forte to use for my Stings, Horns, Synth needs? Is there a better option available?

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I don't personally have a Forte, but those who do on the Mastering VAST forum seem very pleased, especially with the announcement that OS version 4 will be out later this year.

Originally, it really was a stage piano, but it has had a LOT of additional features added with OS updates.

Pianos are greatly expanded in quality, since it has much more room for the samples. Most of the other sounds are from the PC3 series (which I have) along with an added ROM from the PC3 series.

When released, OS 4 will add a dedicated FM engine (VAST can do some FM as is, but this is a separate engine. It also has Kurzweil's KB3 Hammond/Leslie engine.

Plus, Dave Weiser has released some excellent gigging patches that can be loaded, and there are several commercial developers that make patches.

 

Strings, Horns - The PC3 is no slouch in this area, the Forte has more power to handle effects. Note that Kurzweil's stock patches are typically great in Orchestral simulation, perhaps not as much for "pop" synth type sounds. Synth - can do most anything, but going beyond factory patches and those available requires some experience with the VAST engine, which programs quite a bit differently than most of the competition.

 

The KB3 engine is fine for Hammond in an ensemble, not quite as good for solo work. Note my listing of boards, most all Kurzweil except the Hammond SK1 for Hammond (and I use an iPad as a sound generator also).

 

You should register on the Mastering VAST forum, free for some areas, there are literally thousands of user generated patches for different models in the subscriber area ($6 AUS per year). There is a whole sub-forum dedicated to Forte. (clarification - I am one of the forum Moderators).

 

Definitely worth the effort to find one and see what it can do for your purpose. There are some forum members here that have one. Might even be some close enough for a road trip.

 

[b3plyr]

So I am looking for a replacement for my Motif! I have always been impressed with Kurzweil strings and horns and synth abilities. It seems the Forte started out as more a for lack of knowledge a Nord Clone if you will. With strong Pianos, usable Organ etc. I have not found much on the other sounds. Should I consider the Forte to use for my Stings, Horns, Synth needs? Is there a better option available?

 

Great keyboard. I'm in Asheville, NC and have a Forte. If you get this way, come try it. PM me if interested.

[Meta]

A Forte 61, please...

 

I'd like a synth-weighted (or waterfall) 73/76. Think Nord Stage: 73SW and 76 and 88 hammers. Forte has the latter two already.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

Yes please, it's time for a Forte7 with a non-hammer action. Much like the PC3 range, but make the action/feel more like the PC361 and not as stiff as the PC3A7. 76 notes is great but make it A to C.

 

Forte7 already has 76 notes with the wheels above the keyboard, so as good as it is for the weighted action crowd it's also a great basic layout for a lighter action/lighter weight version.

 

Call it the "Forte7L" (for light):

 

-unweighted PC361-style action,

 

-lighter overall for easier cartage,

 

-76 notes _A to C range_.

 

-Take my money.

 

(And yes, could also offer a Forte6L, similar to the PC361 but w/wheels above the keyboard for compactness like the 7L)

 

 

[stoken6]

make the action/feel more like the PC361 and not as stiff as the PC3A7.

Naturally. That stupid TP8 action put me off non-hammer Kurzweils (PC361 excepted), and it's a crying shame.

 

Call it the "Forte7L" (for light):

 

-unweighted PC361-style action,

 

-lighter overall for easier cartage,

 

-76 notes _A to C range_.

That last one might be a pipe dream. The only A-C 76er I can think of is the Vax - although Korg M3 had a C-C 73. I couldn't see them doing anything other than E-G for a 76. I'd live with that if it had the TP9 action from the PC361.

 

+1000 on your other points.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Meta]

At this point it's all a pipe dream when it comes to a non-hammer Forte.

 

But yes A-C is on VAX and there was another controller that also offered it. Korg Krome is also C-C 73, so that's close and still better than E-G, AFAIK all 61's are C-C.

 

I'm also a guitarist and still don't see the point of E-G 76 on a keyboard, I'm either not using anything below the A (most of the time from where I'm transposed) or not caring about anything above the highest C because piano and organ don't go there (when I transpose the keyboard up an octave). If I'm carrying 76 keys I want them to be useful in a keyboard-based sense and not wasted/unused at the ends.

 

Pianos start on A and end on C. Give me a 76 note version and I can use a footswitch to transpose for that rarely used last octave and have a much more portable piano.

 

B3 goes up to C, so again, A-C is better.

 

Alright, this is getting OT, congrats to Kurz for the update and here's hoping non-hammer options are added to the line. Someday... (and without losing aftertouch, keep the feature set, just change the keyboard which will automatically make it lighter, maybe lighten it up in other ways if possible).

[Al Coda]

 

Call it the "Forte7L" (for light):

 

-unweighted PC361-style action,

 

Fatar TP9s for Kurz PC381 is "light(ly) weighted" !

PC361 specs

 

I guess that makes the difference from TP8s which is in other synths like J.B. Solaris p.ex..

 

 

 

-76 notes _A to C range_.

 

When it comes as a "synth action" (diving board) keyboard,- I´d take it w/ standard 61-keys (C-C) or 76 (E-G).

 

But I´d wish getting 76 weighted hammer TP40 keys, A-C.

 

A dream which won´t materialize I think.

 

A.C.

[Meta]

I'd go A-C for ANY 76 keyboard, hammer or non-hammer. Big improvement in both cases.

 

But in this case, since we're talking Forte, there is currently NO non-hammer version so that's what we're talking about. And yes, this is all a digression, so again, thanks Kurz for what you do. Still love my PC361. Did not love the PC3A7 action. Do not want/need hammer-action either.

[jimkost2002]

Have you tried the 7, Meta?

It really is the best of all possible worlds

[Meta]

Have you tried the 7, Meta?

It really is the best of all possible worlds

 

IYHO, I'm sure it is.

 

I haven't had the opportunity. Don't know of anyone carrying them locally. I have however tried the hammer actions on Nord keyboards, Korg keyboards, Roland keyboards, Yamaha keyboards, a huge variety of acoustic pianos and even a Prophet T8 I had for a while (hammer action on a synth, not a great idea).

 

I'm just not a big fan of hammer action, OK? Yes, even for piano. Nothing against those who value HA, more power to you. You have more choices than I do. I once played with another guitarist who could only play his particular guitar because that's what he was used to. I can play any guitar or keyboard but I do have my preferences.

 

Especially for a situation where I may be playing a lot of sounds that have nothing to do with piano, it's seems ludicrous to slam hammers around to play organ smears, orchestral instrument emulations and fast synth lines. Even a gliss on a piano is much more comfortable on a non-hammer action.

 

Is the Forte7 as good as a non-hammer action for everything? Probably not. Would love to try it though but I'm not going to order one on that slim chance. I am a Kurz fan, have put in the time to program VAST and have gotten some reasonable sounds from my PC361, so if a non-hammer lighter Forte7 should appear someday Kurz would have my attention. Otherwise it feels like there's no real upgrade path to the current Kurz tech for me.

 

I can put up with HA at a gig if that's what's available, but I don't see the need to lug around the extra weight of a hammer-action board when I don't like the feel. A Forte7 at 41 pounds is over my limit to haul. Even the PC361 at 31 is pushing it. A laptop and controller keyboard, for example, is under 20 pounds and doesn't slow me down with a HA. I also play a variety of other instruments so anywhere I can reduce the hauling load is a win.

 

I may have to play more precisely on a non-hammer action but that's a good habit to get into.

 

Again, not to digress, go Kurz!

[jimkost2002]

Have you tried the 7, Meta?

It really is the best of all possible worlds

 

 

Is the Forte7 as good as a non-hammer action for everything? Probably not. Would love to try it though but I'm not going to order one on that slim chance. I am a Kurz fan, have put in the time to program VAST and have gotten some reasonable sounds from my PC361, so if a non-hammer lighter Forte7 should appear someday Kurz would have my attention. Otherwise it feels like there's no real upgrade path to the current Kurz tech for me.

 

I can put up with HA at a gig if that's what's available, but I don't see the need to lug around the extra weight of a hammer-action board when I don't like the feel. A Forte7 at 41 pounds is over my limit to haul. Even the PC361 at 31 is pushing it. A laptop and controller keyboard, for example, is under 20 pounds and doesn't slow me down with a HA. I also play a variety of other instruments so anywhere I can reduce the hauling load is a win.

 

I may have to play more precisely on a non-hammer action but that's a good habit to get into.

 

Again, not to digress, go Kurz!

 

Is the Forte7 as good as a non-hammer action for everything?

Actualy, it is

Plays well with pianos, organs, synths.....

This from a guy who owns a Vintage Vibe Tine Piano, Crumar Mojo 61, Moog Voyager and Little Phatty who gigs on everything from AP to EP to Nord Unweighted Keyboards and all manner of synths.

 

It's not like an action youve played and Id hate to see you lose out on it but, hey, its your call.

[Sundown]

I've caught the Forte bug, and if they ever do a rack or a synth-weighted action, I would jump. I just don't have the space for another large keyboard. My MP11 is my weighted board, and I don't need a second.

 

But I really like the Forte's sounds. There are some good demonstrations on YouTube.

[Lady Gaia]

Fatar TP9s for Kurz PC361 is "light(ly) weighted" !

 

I guess that makes the difference from TP8s which is in other synths like J.B. Solaris p.ex..

 

Many earlier 76-key Kurzweil synths used the TP8/Piano which Im not a fan of. Its a stiff synth action with waterfall style keys and has been used recently on Sequentials Prophet XL. It has a constant stiff pushback in the action that just does nothing for me.

 

The TP8/s, by comparison, is a classic synth action currently used by the Waldorf Quantum and Moog One. Its Fatars current premium synth action and would likely be well received if Kurzweil wound up using it for a 61-key variant. The TP9/s key a noticeably shorter key, moving the fulcrum forward, and was used on the 61-key Prophet X. Its nice enough but its not quite as nice as the TP8/s.

 

 

But I´d wish getting 76 weighted hammer TP40 keys, A-C.

 

A dream which won´t materialize I think.

 

Actually, I think thats exactly what the Forte 7 uses, so your dream may already have come true. (EDIT: okay, now I realize that the "A-C" qualifier probably isn't your signature after all! No, the 76-key range on the Forte 7 isn't from A to C.)

[nadroj]

Lovely demo by Chris M.

 

[video:youtube]

[Meta]

Is the Forte7 as good as a non-hammer action for everything?

Actualy, it is

Plays well with pianos, organs, synths.....

This from a guy who owns a Vintage Vibe Tine Piano, Crumar Mojo 61, Moog Voyager and Little Phatty who gigs on everything from AP to EP to Nord Unweighted Keyboards and all manner of synths.

 

It's not like an action youve played and Id hate to see you lose out on it but, hey, its your call.

 

That sounds like what Dave would say. There's a lot to like about the Forte and Kurz keeps making it better.

 

BTW congrats on your new SP6, Jim! When you get the Forte7 it could be a good combo for you if you decide to keep both. Put the Forte up top for organ, orchestral and synth duties if you like, (but I'll bet a non-hammer Hammond or synth action would still be better for that).

 

Keep in mind that I don't want "all possible worlds" in the sense of needing hammer-action at all. I didn't even like the PC3A7 action which was another attempt at a compromise action (sprung too heavily while trying to satisfy piano players). For me (not you) I don't need to compromise in that direction. I am happy with the PC361 action and similar boards. I can play piano on a non-HA without any regrets, and it's better for synth, organ and sample-based stuff. For me.

 

For my purposes I can enjoy a really good non-hammered action and I'm set. No reason for complicated hammer contraptions and extra weight, for me.

 

I dig that you come from really liking the Roland RD2000 so we are looking at it from different perspectives. No right and wrong here, just opinion and different preferences.

 

Having played the Forte7 your opinion does carry some weight (heh). But again, you're looking through a lens that's willing to see a compromise action as the "best of both worlds" which it is for you. From my vantage point it's still hammer-action and not likely a direct replacement for a hammond or synth non-hammer action. If you were doing an organ-only gig would you really choose the Forte or would you go with a hammond or similar?

 

Another topic that matters to both of us is overall weight: You like the SP6 at 27.25 lb vs the RD2000's 47 lbs 14 oz. (imagine how light the SP6 could be without HA). You'll be going back up to 41.4 lb for the Forte7, a bit better than the RD but still a haul. A non-HA version would likely be noticeably lighter.

 

Eventually Kurz may come around to offering non-HA versions of the newest tech. Meanwhile, I look forward to playing the Forte7 when I get a chance and I'll keep an eye out for any non-HA additions to the current lineup. I'll watch to see if anyone else steps up with a keyboard that meets my particular specs (I recently got an Arturia controller that meets a lot of them); and I'll continue to enjoy the gear and music I play every day.

 

Rock on!

[jimkost2002]

Meta said

Another topic that matters to both of us is overall weight: You like the SP6 at 27.25 lb vs the RD2000's 47 lbs 14 oz. (imagine how light the SP6 could be without HA). You'll be going back up to 41.4 lb for the Forte7, a bit better than the RD but still a haul. A non-HA version would likely be noticeably lighter.

 

It's not only pure weight, Meta, but its length.

The Forte 7s 41.4 lbs are SO much easier to manage due to its more compact form factor. I can EASILY grab it from both sides and lift it in and out of cars and cases. It fits in many 61 key cases and bags.

The RDs 47 lbs FEEL unbearably heavier durto its 53.5 length. Id have to as tall as Manute Boa orYao Ming to grab it end to end. So, since Im not that tall, I had to grab it more equidistant somewhere in the middle and because of the weight distribution (heavier in the middle) I REALLY felt it. THAT was the deciding factor. If Roland would have had the end block for their pitch/mod paddle, I MIGHT have not minded the 48 lbs so much.....

Oh and if was doing a Hammond only gig, Id use a real Hammond or clone depending on space. Definitely not the Forte, but its NOT a Hammond centric board, but a good supplement if you needed a smattering of Organ....

 

Thanks re: SP6

Im digging it, but it I did keep it, itd be for a quick and drity solution for a low profile gig.

[Meta]

It's not only pure weight, Meta, but its length.

The Forte 7s 41.4 lbs are SO much easier to manage due to its more compact form factor. I can EASILY grab it from both sides and lift it in and out of cars and cases. It fits in many 61 key cases and bags.

 

I agree, wheels above the keys is helpful for sure. Good for Kurz on the Forte7, Artis7 and SP6 (although the latter two lack aftertouch).

 

Wheels over keys is how my new Arturia 61 and old faithful Alesis 76 are set up. The Alesis has a pretty nice non-hammer action so I keep it around as a controller (30-ish pounds).

 

The Arturia fits in a 49 key bag and weighs around half that (including a MacBook). It has enough footswitch inputs that I can dedicate one for octave shift, making it a virtual 73 c-c keyboard.

 

You can maybe see why I want a 76 key A-C keyboard, which would give me a complete virtual 88 key piano-range keyboard via an octave shift footswitch, without the actual 88 key length. And as you say, 76 keys with wheels over keys is much easier to handle.

 

Since I personally don't require or desire a hammer action, I would also welcome a lighter weight Forte7L.

 

[TomKittel]

Any news on the 4.0 update? Just wondering what 'Coming soon' means in Kurzweil speak.

[Outkaster]

Me too Tom.

[Lady Gaia]

Last year they were more specific about a Q1 release date for 3.0, so I'd read their lack of a similar commitment this year as being somewhat behind that schedule. April? May? June? I suspect not even the engineers working on it could tell you for certain, unless they're getting very close.

[KorgyPorky]

Makes me wonder if the Forte is rivalling the Kronos in the workstation department.

 

And does it rival the Montage for DAW integration?

[Dave Weiser]

This is a long shot but my friend is looking to rent a Forte for tomorrow (and maybe beyond ?) in the Tampa Bay/Sarasota Fl. area. Here's a Face Book link to his post. If not on FB, you can PM me . Thanks.

 

https://www.facebook.com/robin.swenson.1420/posts/10157769011693475

 

Ah bummed I'm just seeing this now!

 

If anyone ever needs to borrow or rent a Forte, I'm often able to help track one down, got a great network of people across the US. Shoot me an email. weiserdav@gmail.com

 

 

 

[TomKittel]

Simple but nice demo of Forte 4.0 FM sounds:

 

[Outkaster]

Cool.

[Lady Gaia]

Its great to see v4 out in beta, and better still that Kurzweil is willing to allow testers to speak freely about the features it brings. There was a lot of initial uncertainty about how exactly FM would be integrated into VAST, or if it would be completely unrelated.

 

Im positively delighted that you can cascade 6-op FM sounds through other VAST layers as well as KDFX, and have had a blast doing so. The rabbit hole goes that much deeper with this release, making me very glad indeed that I chose a Forte to replace my beloved K2500XS.