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Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Nathanael_I] #2972281 01/29/19 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: Nathanael_I
On the C15, the company was founded by the same man who founded Native Instruments, and who still has massive amounts of its stock. It is quite clear that he is not playing a short game. He can sustain this for the rest of his and his children's lives if it suits him. No need at all to compete with Korg, and I doubt very seriously he is even trying.

What is interesting to me is that the synth states an aesthetic. That aesthetic is:

Live play is important, sequencing is not - other devices do that
A novel synth engine is important - you won't know how to program it at first.
There is value in the search for personal timbre and expression

If they wanted world-beating presets, I'm quite sure they'd have paid for them. But this isn't that kind of instrument. Or put differently, they wish to equip a different kind of player - the artist who WANTS to completely control the experience and who EXPECTS to spend whatever time is required.

This one is not about instant gratification. It comes with giant warning labels so that only those who match the aesthetic will be intrigued.

I've subscribed to their news for years. I very much like it. Or I should say, I want to believe that I'm that kind of musician. In practice, my composition rig lives on MIDI. But would it be that bad to "have" to play it? No.

But I still have another synth I am working on mastering, and the Quantum would come before this.

But I do have a soft spot for the aesthetic. I think it is very bold to design an instrument with a point-of-view. A genuine maker's contribution to what he or she thinks the world is missing. It is very uncommon, and important if for no other reason that this is what artists do. We make things that didn't exist and tell the world, "I made a thing... Why? Because I wanted it to exist!"


Extremely well put!

KC Island
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: David Holloway] #2972284 01/29/19 12:35 AM
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I found it very musical and interesting. ANd beautiful.


Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Nathanael_I] #2972285 01/29/19 12:36 AM
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Presets make or break an instrument on several levels. First you must present what the instrument (particularly one of "novel" design) is capable of sonically and theoretically to move a buyer to part with $4k. Then, it's silly for a player to have to program from scratch the most commonly requested and desirable of timbres. Lastly, community is important to an instrument's success. Sound designers and players interacting together, on forums like ours devoted to the instrument, exchanging tips, tricks and patches. A popularly used instrument will also attract sound designers to offer patch collections.

Clearly presets are important to the designer as the C15 has user-definable banks, unlimited number of presets per bank, user editable infos per preset and the ability to search for presets based on name, tags and infos.


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Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Mighty Motif Max] #2972286 01/29/19 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
So no MIDI. No LFOs??

I think I get where they're coming from. String and wind instrumentalists generate their own LFO, which gives them more expressive control. My best guitar patches map aftertouch to a slight raise in pitch, so I can simulate an actual guitarist's vibrato.

That said, I would have liked MIDI, if for nothing else, to be able to use the keyboard to trigger other boards' sounds when I need a second manual but don't need its native engine.

BTW, reading the synth engine specs ('cuz I couldn't get a lot of audio):
Quote:
2 Oscillators (sine wave, phase modulation, frequency randomization)
2 Shapers (sine curve, adjustable foldback and asymmetry)
...sorta reminds me of the old Casio CZ series.


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Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Tom Williams] #2972289 01/29/19 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: Tom Williams


BTW, reading the synth engine specs ('cuz I couldn't get a lot of audio):
Quote:
2 Oscillators (sine wave, phase modulation, frequency randomization)
2 Shapers (sine curve, adjustable foldback and asymmetry)
...sorta reminds me of the old Casio CZ series.


Funny the exact same thing crossed my mind! Though this is much more complex, of course.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: David Holloway] #2972294 01/29/19 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: nursers
Originally Posted By: Docbop
Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
[quote=Docbop][quote=nursers][quote=Mark Schmieder]The Radial rack should help out a lot of people, and is very different from any line mixers out there as that isn't quite what it is anyway.


Indeed though I'm uneducated enough to wonder how it's a lot better than the PreSonus gear. With them announcing the USB-C option now I can't see where the extra cost is in the KL-8 although the components may be better?


The Radial is a rack mount line mixer and the PreSonus is a audio interface for a computer kind of an apples and oranges comparison. The Radial is basically a high end mixer and that's it. The PreSonus is a mainly an Analog to Digital convertor to send to your audio to your computer in digital format.


The Radial KL-8 is also an Audio Interface which is great for people like me who use hardware and software on stage. [/quote]

I stand corrected, I thought the USB was just for laptop failover it is an interface as well. So a Swiss Army Knife audio tool cool. [/quote]

Indeed - so I probably need to do some manual diving on components because based on pure functionality (I won't need all the input or outputs both offer), it seems the PreSonus is heaps cheaper and still delivers what I want. We shall see :the: [/quote]


I have Radial key Largo(it shares the same technology with KL8) and after many tests side by side with my apogee duet, as a recordings device is very good. It records almost 85% near apogee's quality, which is a great sound card...
I use key largo, more as a sound card than for live use and it's great. I have patched all my synths on it and i have Duet for recording vocals, guitars etc.
And as a keyboard mixer it's excellent. I can practice some ideas, and listen from my Roland cm30 monitors. If i like something, i open Logic and start recording. I have set as an output device for logic, the duet, so i listen through my Genelec monitors.
Before Key largo i had patched all my synths to Roland Cm30 monitors. I had buzz from my speakers. With key largo everything is quiet. Before key Largo if i wanted to record a synth, i ought to unpatched from Roland cm30 and patch to my Duet. Now i play and record with one device!
Go for it!!!

Last edited by UnderGroundH; 01/29/19 03:15 AM.

Kurzweil K2661+full options,iMac 27",Mac book white,Apogee Element 24 + Duet,Genelec 8030A,Strymon Lex + Flint,Hohner Pianet T,Radial Key-Largo,Kawai K5000W + K1,Moog Minitaur,Yamaha Reface YC + CP.
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: UnderGroundH] #2972296 01/29/19 03:36 AM
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Shure MV88 plus Video Kit

A 'small' correction. Mr. Banks says...here with you at "CES", but it's NAMM 2019. I didn't notice him saying that while recording.


Last edited by Sam CA; 01/29/19 03:36 AM.
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Sam CA] #2972298 01/29/19 03:39 AM
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I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way. Most of what's been posted here is either from manufacturer web sites or publicly available NAMM videos. I'm more interested in what my fellow forumites saw and experienced. I can google NAMM videos and watch them all day long on YouTube. I want to know your first hand, hands on opinion......not the video that anybody anywhere can see without this forum.

Last edited by J. Dan; 01/29/19 03:40 AM.

Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: J. Dead] #2972299 01/29/19 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way. ...


No it doesn't at all.

But all videos in this thread can be googled. All of them! Some might have picture content or different commentary that might not be interesting to you. Someone else could possibly find them useful. At least they're relevant. Besides, it's not just about posting something. Certain content generate more posts and in-depth thoughts.


Last edited by Sam CA; 01/29/19 03:49 AM.
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Sam CA] #2972302 01/29/19 05:45 AM
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Ah... the good old days before video embedding!

If you'd like to see our Winter NAMM Show thread from 2002, look no further than the link below:

New keys/synth stuff from NAMM!

And here's the first Winter NAMM Show thread I started (as soapbox) back in 2003:

Winter NAMM 2003 Gear Reports

Best,

Geoff


Enthusiasm powers the world.

Craig Anderton's Archiving Article
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace] #2972309 01/29/19 06:51 AM
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Yeah, but clearly back then direct links to official websites type of posts were the thing. There's a lot of that in both threads you just shared. It's really no big deal. In this thread there are tons of posts completely unrelated to the NAMM and music industry altogether. Not to mention posts about suicide and stuff!

I've got some strange reactions (at least twice) when I've posted something totally related to the topic...where that person(s) could've easily moved on to the next post, or directed their attention to off topic posts. Both instances could've been avoided with a little patience and possibly a private message.

Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Sam CA] #2972344 01/29/19 11:18 AM
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The only thing I'm trying to say is I would like to hear more first hand information from those who attended who were able to see things first hand and give their opinions, as opposed to the standard videos from other web sites. I trust the objective views of the contributors to this forum, I'm not saying that the thread is devoid of that, quite the contrary. Geoff in particular has offered opinions on several products. I'm just saying, as somebody who wanted to attend but couldn't swing it, that I would appreciate more of that if possible. Maybe it's still coming as many of the attendees were busy with the show as well as travel back and forth. Maybe another way to put it is that I would be more interested in forumite reviews than some of the other ones posted on here.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace] #2972345 01/29/19 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
Ah... the good old days before video embedding!

If you'd like to see our Winter NAMM Show thread from 2002, look no further than the link below:


Blast from the past Geoff. thu

Nice writeup by Busch. I miss Dan (South) and Cameron (Bobro) and their humor. What the heck became of them? Did they something awful happen? Did they take up the guitar? wink Shout out to Ken Lee, whose pics of the hardware would help stoke the gas until the gear showed up in the stores.

Agree with J. Dan, it would be nice to see more first person accounts from people we know and trust. rawk

Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Tusker] #2972436 01/29/19 04:49 PM
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Maybe there's not very many there this year? I know I can't go any more, it's just too much. I can get a pass any time I want but man, three years ago it was so crowded, noisy, couldn't get to see things I wanted to see, the Kurz area had people lined up 10 deep and when I finally got to play one, the headphones sucked. I never got a chance to play the Hammonds, too many people. There was nowhere to sit to take a break. I had to slip into a manufacturers conference area and listen to the future of something I could care less about just to sit for a few minutes.

Oh yeah, and the parking, what a mess. At least Disnyland has the shuttles to pick you up and get you to the main entrance. And the waiting in line just to get up to the window, validate the pass and get into the place.

Not doing that again.

Bob


Hammond SK1, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Jazzmammal] #2972445 01/29/19 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jazzmammal
Maybe there's not very many there this year? I know I can't go any more, it's just too much. I can get a pass any time I want but man, three years ago it was so crowded, noisy, couldn't get to see things I wanted to see, the Kurz area had people lined up 10 deep and when I finally got to play one, the headphones sucked. I never got a chance to play the Hammonds, too many people. There was nowhere to sit to take a break. I had to slip into a manufacturers conference area and listen to the future of something I could care less about just to sit for a few minutes.

Oh yeah, and the parking, what a mess. At least Disnyland has the shuttles to pick you up and get you to the main entrance. And the waiting in line just to get up to the window, validate the pass and get into the place.

Not doing that again.

Bob


That's right. Some of these guys never been to the show or don't have any recent personal experience. They think you can just walk up to gears anytime, and do all kinds of testing and come up with personal hands on stories just like that. It takes only one person....just one person to block access to a piece of gear for an extended amount of time. Unless you have a "media pass", you wouldn't even be able to take a good still picture of something.

There were broken headphones on multiple keyboards. Some didn't even have a headphone. They just had a set of speakers for multiple devices. The piano section is generally quiet. Even there you can't really focus on details, because again some guy is practicing his C major skills on another piano 6 feet away.

With a media pass, you CAN do a lot more than just taking a video from a presentation. You can spend more quality time in quiet rooms, or even before they open the doors for public.

NAMM is not the place for a person to do critical detailed testings. It takes all of us to gather some info and share...and then we put all that together and come up with some kind of conclusion.

Those who complain too much don't see any of this. They just read a post and type in the first thing comes to their mind. Maybe they should attend the next NAMM themselves and do better coverage? that is more helpful.

Last edited by Sam CA; 01/29/19 05:57 PM.
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Sam CA] #2972448 01/29/19 06:07 PM
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Well, I have been to NAMM, though not for quite a while. I recall quite a few demonstrations with plenty of opportunity to ask questions. Yes actual hands-on may not be possible, but you can certainly interact with the people who know the products and ask questions. Also, even without hands on, seeing something first hand can give you a much different impression than a video.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: J. Dead] #2972449 01/29/19 06:10 PM
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If you get up in the morning and hit the convention center when they open the doors, no problem getting your hands on lots of stuff to try. Musicians don't tend to be early risers. wink


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Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Jazzmammal] #2972451 01/29/19 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jazzmammal
Maybe there's not very many there this year? I know I can't go any more, it's just too much. I can get a pass any time I want but man, three years ago it was so crowded, noisy, couldn't get to see things I wanted to see, the Kurz area had people lined up 10 deep and when I finally got to play one, the headphones sucked. I never got a chance to play the Hammonds, too many people. There was nowhere to sit to take a break. I had to slip into a manufacturers conference area and listen to the future of something I could care less about just to sit for a few minutes.

Oh yeah, and the parking, what a mess. At least Disnyland has the shuttles to pick you up and get you to the main entrance. And the waiting in line just to get up to the window, validate the pass and get into the place.

Not doing that again.

Bob


It was #32 for me by my count. and I've said in the past- "that will be my last".

But after this year, I really can't see any reason for going back. Even the three Faziolis I played were super bright and out of tune. All the other pianos sounded and played like crap.

You think the noise level was bad three years ago ?!....bwhaaa !! Those were the glory years ! rolleyes

All the booths and exhibit areas keep shrinking every year. There's less keyboards to play with worse headphones every year. The Nord and Kurz spaces were a joke ! People lined up five deep to play an Electro. Really ?!

You need an "appointment" to get into play the premium Yamhas and Bosendorfers. It used to be a separate room down the hall at the Marriott. This year it was a makeshift isolated booth, I'd say 200 sq. ', inside the main ballroom. I peered in and spotted maybe three or four pianos scrunched in there. The side room in the past had at least a dozen ! Every Yamaha and Bosendorfer size.

Too crowded, too loud, too stupid ! buh bye. wave

Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2972457 01/29/19 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
If you get up in the morning and hit the convention center when they open the doors, no problem getting your hands on lots of stuff to try. Musicians don't tend to be early risers. wink


Would've been a good tip, but I was there before 10 all 3 days. I skipped Sunday as it's impossible to actually see anything beyond casual walking and talking... . Mornings are just as crowded. Been there since 2000 every winter. I still have a lot of fun. I don't care how loud it is or it takes 45 minutes to get a $20 hot dog. I enjoy it very much so. I've been able to find job opportunities in the past when I was looking for a job. It's been a very positive personal experience for me over the years.

Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: J. Dead] #2972462 01/29/19 06:44 PM
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Dan, it's incredibly easy to have an opinion from the comfort of your home, isn't ? There's always the NAMM 2020. Maybe you could do the way you think it should be done and then share that detailed experience. Looking forward to your NAMM 2020 reviews. That would give us a much better impression than complaining about someone else's content.

Peace!

Last edited by Sam CA; 01/29/19 06:44 PM.
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Dave Ferris] #2972465 01/29/19 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
...
...too loud...


I received a number of NAMM e-mails about the levels. I don't remember getting that many e-mails about this in the past. Many people must've complained this year...

Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Sam CA] #2972469 01/29/19 07:01 PM
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I used to get really jealous about not being at NAMM, but after seeing the reports here over the years of what it's actually like I always thought it sounded like it's really not worth it unless you have a job to do.


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Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: nadroj] #2972472 01/29/19 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: N4dr0j
I used to get really jealous about not being at NAMM, but after seeing the reports here over the years of what it's actually like I always thought it sounded like it's really not worth it unless you have a job to do.


It really depends on your attitude too. If you don't know why you're there, you can totally be there all 4 days and accomplish nothing at all. For me it's always been a positive experience, but that's just me.

Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Sam CA] #2972476 01/29/19 07:23 PM
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Melodica men :

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs9wGXdQrN9-dcQucuzRzNw

They were at Suzuki's Melodica booth. I had watched some of their YouTube videos before. Many people would comment that they're not actually playing in real time. Oh they DO!!!! They're actually very good and efficient. They played multiple arrangements of their own YouTube content. It's nice to hear good musicians in person.

Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: zephonic] #2972478 01/29/19 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Sam CA
John Jennings of Royer Labs introduces the dBooster In-line Signal Booster.





Can you say Cloudlifter?

I can indeed, since I'm the one that brought Cloudlifters to the market and defined the Mic Activator channel. idea

We're not worried - they're like the tenth company to make a version of the Cloudlifter, and we're basically Kleenex. cool

It is kinda funny to see most of these guys using versions of marketing chops I wrote, though. grin

dB
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Cloud Microphones

Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Sam CA] #2972480 01/29/19 07:44 PM
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these guys KILL IT!
Thanks Sam!


"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�
Robert Bosch, 1919
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: jimkost2002] #2972487 01/29/19 08:10 PM
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I had a pass this year but didnt get there. I'm semi-local, just down the road in San Diegoy north county. but i was still rehabbing my back from a nasty disk bulge nerve episode and I had to fly out Saturday for a show in NoCal, I decided discretion demanded I rest up as much as I could before I leave.

I made it thru the show, actually playing keyboards live for an audience instead of staring at other people playing ones I won't have. my back started to tighten up the last couple songs, fortunate it was only a 1:45 show. got back to my room and iced it again - and no serious relapse - whew!

but next year - i'm there, damnit!

I really enjoy all of the posts from those that go - thank you all for your work relaying info back to KC. it is much appreciated by every one of us.


The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.
Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: MotiDave] #2972495 01/29/19 08:38 PM
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Dave I am glad you made it through the gig without a flare-up. There is no arguing with back pain.

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
I really enjoy all of the posts from those that go - thank you all for your work relaying info back to KC. it is much appreciated by every one of us.


+1000

Thank you for saying what a lot of us are feeling: grateful. thu

Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Tusker] #2972499 01/29/19 09:07 PM
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Ditto - although I do plan on getting to a NAMM one day, it's a little far to go for me and the updates are interesting no matter what they are thu

Re: Winter NAMM 2019 Reports [Re: Dave Bryce] #2972541 01/30/19 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
...I can indeed, since I'm the one that brought Cloudlifters to the market and defined the Mic Activator channel. idea...


Dave, do you agree with Royer Labs comment about the noise level?

Last edited by Sam CA; 01/30/19 12:17 AM.
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