Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread

[jefsco]

 

PMT with Luke Juby

 

 

[video:youtube]

[Theo Verelst]

I've listened to the first few demos, of course having normal interest in Yamaha's stage pianos. Now, apart from the luckily CP4 not looking like "look at me and my stupid synthesizer, look, it's got retard colors!" and obvious ergonomics, what sold me on the CP range (having been dubbed "the best stage piano ever" by Yamaha themselves) was the Spectral Component Modelling and the promise it would be able to be programmed like a pro instrument.

 

I don't think the sound of this new piano interests me much from the demos I've heard. Very much it's possible it allows "tuning" the sound setups like I eventually get done on the CP4, so that the sound becomes usable for pro mixing, instead of yet another obligate sampler sound with all it's mind numbing limitations and pre-programmed effects.

 

T.

 

[MotiDave]

I like that too, though it does limit you to designs with somewhat minimal control surfaces.

 

No,- it does limit a manufacturer to more clever and probably harder to manufacture case designs.

And yes, those will be somewhat larger and will come w/ some lbs more of weight.

But then, you don´t have to think that much about which stand to use.

For a flat-top keyboard, 4 solid legs or a z-stand are reliable and stable solutions where you just only put another keyboard on top,- and it also looks great.

 

A.C.

for me, your negatives list exceeds your positives list. I dont want my board design limited that much to accommodate vertical stacking. Just me ... or not - it seems manufacturers dont find enough buyers that value ability to stack over actual additional functional keyboard features and functions.

[Al Coda]

for me, your negatives list exceeds your positives list. I dont want my board design limited that much to accommodate vertical stacking.

 

LOL,- the 3 section design of the CPs is already a big limitation vs. technically deeper machines where it´s imposible to provide single knobs and buttons for every parameter.

Even the sound engine sounds good to my ears,- these tiny cheapo pitchbend- and modulation sticks alone make these instruments a no-go for me.

 

A.C.

[MotiDave]

for me, your negatives list exceeds your positives list. I dont want my board design limited that much to accommodate vertical stacking.

 

LOL,- the 3 section design of the CPs is already a big limitation vs. technically deeper machines where it´s imposible to provide single knobs and buttons for every parameter.

Even the sound engine sounds good to my ears,- these tiny cheapo pitchbend- and modulation sticks alone make these instruments a no-go for me.

 

A.C.

to me its a stage piano. I dont pitch bend piano, personally. I wouldnt buy it for synth, strings, etc etc etc any of the secondary functions. thats a different utility knife entirely imo.

 

I just meant i wouldnt want a board to be heavier, bigger, less interface options, just to create a gaint flat top space i can stack another board atop. Thats just me. And i guess the majority of the world market, as if the world wanted big heavy keyboards with large flat tops, producers would respond.

[Fleer]

Now if only that CP73 action would play heavenly...

[ElmerJFudd]

Now if only that CP73 action would play heavenly...

 

At its weight it only has to be on par with the Medelli in the SP6, TP-100 in light Nords, Feel G from Roland on an FA or DS, a Krome from Korg (their Grandstage 73 is over 35lbs) and Casios action. Kawais ES-110 action is decent but its hardly as capable as a CP73.

[AnotherScott]

these tiny cheapo pitchbend- and modulation sticks alone make these instruments a no-go for me.

Even though I haven't felt them personally, I am confident that they are a heck of a lot better than the ones on the Nord Electro, Hammond SK1, Korg SV1...

[Jazz+]

So, does the Grand Piano 1 in these new CPs sound better thatn in CP4 ??? And the Rhodes classic is now better?

[Doerfler]

So, does the Grand Piano 1 in these new CPs sound better thatn in CP4 ??? And the Rhodes classic is now better?

 

I guess that depends on how one defines "better".

[Al Coda]

to me its a stage piano. I dont pitch bend piano, personally. I wouldnt buy it for synth, strings, etc etc etc any of the secondary functions. thats a different utility knife entirely imo.[/quote9

 

No, everything offering USB and DIN-MIDI I/O & Thru is also a MIDI controller.

If you pitchbend internal piano sounds or not doesn´t matter.

 

I just meant i wouldnt want a board to be heavier, bigger, less interface options, just to create a gaint flat top space i can stack another board atop. Thats just me. And i guess the majority of the world market, as if the world wanted big heavy keyboards with large flat tops, producers would respond.

 

Waldorf Zarenbourgh, Crumar Seven ARE DPs w/ flat tops, but just only examples for the case design I mean.

Even a KORG SV-1 technically could have a flat top when there weren´t that "cigar" type design w/ the rounded edges they prefered because of stylish fashion.

 

I also don´t want a large flat top urgently.

It´s enough the flat top supports the front of a 2nd keyboard while the rear might sit on a support bar.

Think of the H/S XK3c or Crumar Mojo61 cases.

It´s all about getting the keys of 2 boards together as close as possible and have the most important controls of the bottom board in front of you.

But when someone wants a dedicated slider/ knob/ button for every parameter, that doesn´t work.

 

Anyway,- it´s not for me it seems.

I remember the times I used a Minimoog, Prophet 5 and DX7 in a USS A-frame stand and it always felt uncomfortable because I had to leave that space between the keyboards for recognizing the displays and operating the knobs on DX7 and Prophet 5.

 

My main interface are the keys, not the knobs, sliders and buttons.

I play w/ both hands, jump between manuals and need short distances to do that at almost every tempo.

I don´t do single-board gigs since decades anymore.

But who knows ... maybe again in a few years when I´m retired.

 

A.C.

 

 

[Al Coda]

... I am confident that they are a heck of a lot better than the ones on the Nord Electro, Hammond SK1, Korg SV1...

 

 

A.C.

[Mighty Motif Max]

... I am confident that they are a heck of a lot better than the ones on the Nord Electro, Hammond SK1, Korg SV1...

 

 

A.C.

 

 

Seems they stole those from Studiologic.

[keyboardologist]

At its weight it only has to be on par with the Medelli in the SP6, TP-100 in light Nords, Feel G from Roland on an FA or DS, a Krome from Korg (their Grandstage 73 is over 35lbs) and Casios action. Kawais ES-110 action is decent but its hardly as capable as a CP73.

I totally agree. My ES110's action is decent. Adding pitch/mod, a lot of buttons and straight parameters, alongside with some all-around sounds, effects, eq, drive, ADSR, etc is the way to go. Hope again for the action.

Also hoping some sounds can be a little edited. Like lead sound character, or brass brightness, or pad contour...

[jimkost2002]

these tiny cheapo pitchbend- and modulation sticks alone make these instruments a no-go for me.

Even though I haven't felt them personally, I am confident that they are a heck of a lot better than the ones on the Nord Electro, Hammond SK1, Korg SV1...

 

 

At first I was with you on the pitchbend/mod levers, Al, but I realized Yamaha took them from the Reface CS and I then remebered that those levers were the only things I liked about the CS. Like you, Im a wheel guy, but I adoptedto those levers quite happily.

 

I like to pitch bend EPs and most especially Clav and Im thinking those levers will make whammy bar efx and quick bends easy to execute.

[keyguy]

That new cp88 case is $350. I'll keep my Gator...

[ElmerJFudd]

That new cp88 case is $350. I'll keep my Gator...

 

Nord charges $400 for their branded wheeled cases. But yes, a $150-200 Gator will do the trick.

[halhertz]

I'm not sure how much I like the CP88. The UI is very cool but the tone generation tech is underwhelming. The action is OK but definitely nothing special.

 

If I had to buy a stage piano in the next 2 months, I'd probably get either the similarly priced RD2000 (+100) or the MP11SE (+300). Especially If I will use it in the studio for the most part and not have to move it often.

 

The CP88 is still a very good option for the gigging musician who is always on the move and needs something more portable. Having said, the RD2000 weighs only 6lbs (47lbs vs 41lbs) more than the CP88, but the action and tone generation tech in it is in my mind better than what's in the CP88.

[Fleer]

Same thinking here, and you can get an RD-2000 for 2000 in Europe.

[keyboardologist]

Same thinking here, and you can get an RD-2000 for 2000 in Europe.

OK, but 141cm on 21.7kgs (RD2000) vs 130cm on 18.6kgs (CP88) makes a big difference. GrandStage 88 is 131cm on 20kgs, Nord Piano 129cm on 18.5kgs, etc...

 

Although I believe CP88 is not the ulimate SP depending anyone's need, CP73 is the step forward for the compact 73/76 hammer-action stage pianos! I don't see something basic missing here.

OK it has a few all-around sounds, but categories are wider than NPs or NEs, real-time editing is good, pitch/mod, come on!

 

I see it's not for anyone's taste, but it's definately for someone like me! My back is everytime in pain on carrying heavy things around.

Only crossing fingers for the action, waiting to test it personally and if its a decent responsive action, I will sell my most other gear to buy the CP73.

[ElmerJFudd]

I'm not sure how much I like the CP88. The UI is very cool but the tone generation tech is underwhelming. The action is OK but definitely nothing special.

 

If I had to buy a stage piano in the next 2 months, I'd probably get either the similarly priced RD2000 (+100) or the MP11SE (+300). Especially If I will use it in the studio for the most part and not have to move it often.

 

The CP88 is still a very good option for the gigging musician who is always on the move and needs something more portable. Having said, the RD2000 weighs only 6lbs (47lbs vs 41lbs) more than the CP88, but the action and tone generation tech in it is in my mind better than what's in the CP88.

 

I found the action on the RD-2000 a little slow on the return swing. Its a great bread and butter stage piano. The tech is very similar to the Yamaha with the exception of modeled pianos which are decent but arguably not as bodiful as many sampled examples. Lots of choices these days. None of them suck.

[Fleer]

Same thinking here, and you can get an RD-2000 for 2000 in Europe.

OK, but 141cm on 21.7kgs (RD2000) vs 130cm on 18.6kgs (CP88) makes a big difference. GrandStage 88 is 131cm on 20kgs, Nord Piano 129cm on 18.5kgs, etc...

 

Although I believe CP88 is not the ulimate SP depending anyone's need, CP73 is the step forward for the compact 73/76 hammer-action stage pianos! I don't see something basic missing here.

OK it has a few all-around sounds, but categories are wider than NPs or NEs, real-time editing is good, pitch/mod, come on!

 

I see it's not for anyone's taste, but it's definately for someone like me! My back is everytime in pain on carrying heavy things around.

Only crossing fingers for the action, waiting to test it personally and if its a decent responsive action, I will sell my most other gear to buy the CP73.

Anxiously waiting myself too.

But as for the CP73, I still think Korgs GrandStage is the one to beat, definitely at under 1650 Bax was selling it only last week.

[keyboardologist]

Anxiously waiting myself too.

But as for the CP73, I still think Korgs GrandStage is the one to beat, definitely at under 1650 Bax was selling it only last week.

But the Korg's weight is already beaten! 17kgs vs 13kgs.

Korg has definately the more sounds advantage, 500 vs 57 and more menus (this is good and bad), so it's a matter of taste and prefers.

 

CP73 will be for 1799 on thomann, so if you can wait some months it'll be both close.

[AnotherScott]

If I had to buy a stage piano in the next 2 months, I'd probably get either the similarly priced RD2000 (+100) or the MP11SE (+300). Especially If I will use it in the studio for the most part and not have to move it often.

 

The CP88 is still a very good option for the gigging musician who is always on the move and needs something more portable. Having said, the RD2000 weighs only 6lbs (47lbs vs 41lbs) more than the CP88, but the action and tone generation tech in it is in my mind better than what's in the CP88.

It's all about the dedicated controls. If you don't need that, the P515 gives you better action (escapement), better piano sound (resonance), a lot more sounds (about 500), at a lower price (and a lot lower than the RD2000).

 

Of course, there's also the advantage of their offering a low weight 73.

 

OK it has a few all-around sounds, but categories are wider than NPs or NEs

Not really. The Nord sample library includes more categories of sound than what's in the CP. You get get brass, winds, reeds, etc. and vintage keyboards like mellotrons and so forth. OTOH, at least the board's strong MIDI zone functions (unlike on those Nords) means you should be able to fill in the gaps pretty easily with an iPhone/iPad, for example.

 

 

 

[keyboardologist]

Not really. The Nord sample library includes more categories of sound than what's in the CP. You get get brass, winds, reeds, etc. and vintage keyboards like mellotrons and so forth. OTOH, at least the board's strong MIDI zone functions (unlike on those Nords) means you should be able to fill in the gaps pretty easily with an iPhone/iPad, for example.

You are right, although NP's Organ (from samples) may be really limited and NE's HP action does not overcome what CP73 might have to offer.

 

I think we can talk forever on pros and cons. If the CP73 was 10kgs and had 500 sounds, it will be something of the "future" dream come true. But this will come at another cost, maybe plastic body, or menu editing. I can't blame Yamaha for their decision, because I will gladly be compromised with the CP73 package features at the price offered. That's personally me and hope not only me.

[ElmerJFudd]

Theres a reason were still here debating why models have this or that short coming, lack this or that feature or sound engine. Its bad business to offer the kitchen sink on models that arent priced as a flagship. The $2-2.5k CPs arent going to have the FM-X engine or 1.75gb of user sample storage. They could, I wish they did. Just like I wish the Nord Electro had the A1 synth in it. Or that you could edit the Kronos engines on the Grandstage.

 

But at least competition from Nord drove Yamaha to build a model that has a one function per knob/switch user interface and offer new sounds post purchase via firmware updates.

 

If we want more, thats what a module, tablet, laptop is for these days.

[Theo Verelst]

For me, certain specific DSP internals (which I have never heard from any PC program except my own (extremely complicated) Linux tools) are more important than the marketing hype and some trivialities. Alo, given the power use and the special chips in the CP4, it's likely there are actual musical powers in there a PC cannot deliver, and that not even taking latency into account.

 

Where these new machines reside on that chart of possibilities I don't know.

 

T.

[halhertz]

Anyone know what the Canadian pricing for the PC88 is? I asked my local dealer but he hasn't received any info yet.

[keyboardologist]

For me, certain specific DSP internals (which I have never heard from any PC program except my own (extremely complicated) Linux tools) are more important than the marketing hype and some trivialities. Alo, given the power use and the special chips in the CP4, it's likely there are actual musical powers in there a PC cannot deliver, and that not even taking latency into account.

Could you please say a little more on this? I don't want to go off-topic but it sounds interesting for an on-top synth, even on a CP73. PM me if you like.

[keyboardologist]

I really like what Yamaha is proposing for portables and synths/workstations:

 

P series: Good Action. Basic but Good Sounds. Limited Editing. Light Chassis for the Quality.

CPs: Good Action. Some Good Selected Sounds. Realtime easy Editing. Light Chassis but Durable.

MXs: Cheap Action. A Lot of Sounds and Menu Possibilities with some limited Realtime. Really Light Chassis.

MODXs: Better Action. More Sounds. More Menu Editing Possibilities. Better Realtime. Really Compact Chassis.

Montage: Full Package at heavy Chassis.

 

From the above, only the MX has a 49key chassis. The rest is well chosen. Only missing is the MX73, which I'd love to see as a graded hammer action, filling the only gap. But then it's an entry-level "synth". But MX88 is hammer. I'm confused.

 

Let's get back to CPs here. Why do Yamaha has to discontinue the CP4? And if yes, maybe CP88, MX88, MODX8, P515 do overlap most of its features? But I can still find S70XS and Motif Rack XS available for new! Really confused again.