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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2969215 01/16/19 06:08 AM
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The CP73 seems to be quite close to what people (including me) have been asking - a "light-weight Reface CP". (don't know the lbs/kg but I'm guessing)

Price, however, is pretty steep frown Not as expensive as a Nord, but still...

I also don't feel a huge urge to update my CP5, even though the CP88 would probably be much lighter and the sounds have improved. The Reface CP sounds beautiful so I'm sure if the sounds are based on it, this is a winner in that aspect...

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: BRW] #2969220 01/16/19 07:13 AM
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About targeting the Nord market: a few years ago i choose a Nord Electro 5HP over a CP4, mainly for two reasons: weight (i am an urban/pubblic transportation gigger :), and user interface. I clearly preferred the AP and EP of the CP4, but i didn't wanted a keyboard to program before playing, i wanted direct access to parameters, that i usually change on the fly while playing. And weight was just too much.

In my case, organ sounds were just a bonus, not expecially a reason for the choice.

If i had to choose today, i would consider the CP73 *very* seriously.

Said this, it is not very likely that i will sell the NE5HP to buy it (unless the sound is so great that it convince me otherwise); the NE5HP fit the bill, i love it, a couple of Kg lighter, and it is already paid :->

Maurizio


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Legatoboy] #2969226 01/16/19 08:54 AM
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These boards look GREAT...... the only fly in the ointment is the two tiny levers that I’m surmising are pitch bend and mod controls.
Any news on the functionality of these controls?

Do we know if the pitch bend and mod levers can be freely assigned. For example, can you set the pitch bend range to any interval within a 12 note span and if so, is the asdignment global or per patch?
And is the mod lever useable in the EP/AP section or only in the “sub” category?
Also, to which parameters can it be assigned?

Kind of a head scratcher since Yamaha is trumpeting these new CPs as master controllers....

Oh, and how about the onboard flash storage? Size of pianos, EPs, etc?

Last edited by jimkost2002; 01/16/19 09:58 AM.

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: jimkost2002] #2969236 01/16/19 10:11 AM
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To me, the biggest head scratcher is the tiny sound set. Here are some common sounds it seems you won't find in these CPs: accordion, harmonica, flute, violin, trumpet, sax, brass section, voices (except for an "air choir" pad), ... forget anything "exotic" like a mellotron or a sitar. Even as a high end piano-centric board, I'm surprised that there are only two clav sounds (so not even covering the 4 basic clav pickup positions)... though take heart, there are 6 FM EP sounds. ;-)

As a single gigging board, unless you're really piano/EP focussed, I'd look at supplementing with an iPad, and then at least the board's good MIDI controller functions come into play, which is an area where it has a leg up on other piano-centric limited soundset boards like the Korg SV1, Crumar Seven, or some of the piano models with built-in speakers. But with so much of the board's appeal being in the grab-and-go sound selection/manipulation, at a $2k+ price, it's really a shame that its sound selection is as limited as it is. Nowhere near what you'd get in a Nord Piano 4 or a Korg Grandstage.

As part of a pair, this small sound set may make more demands of a second board, so if you were thinking about pairing with a drawbar organ or knobby synth, you may also have to think about how/whether your second board can provide some of these other common sounds.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott] #2969240 01/16/19 10:45 AM
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Claim is that sounds will be expanded with frequent OS updates.

http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductionGuide_2019_01_EN.pdf


Yamaha: Motif XF6 and XS6, A3000V2, A4000, YS200 | Korg: T3EX, 05R/W | Fender Chroma Polaris | Roland U-220 | Etc.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: MIDI2XS] #2969243 01/16/19 11:10 AM
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mmmm I bought a CP4 in June... Ah well I knew this was going to happen. I'm a bit with Aidan on this anyway. There is not really something that would want to swap my CP4 for an CP88. Only thing is maybe the upright sample.

I'm still missing the sympathic resonance on the CP88. Still no mention of it in the documentation. That, with an upright sample, is the only thing I miss in my CP4.


Rudy

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: RudyS] #2969248 01/16/19 11:23 AM
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CP4 is a great pick regardless of these models. The 88 is even just a bit heavier.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: MIDI2XS] #2969259 01/16/19 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: MIDI2XS
Claim is that sounds will be expanded with frequent OS updates.

http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductionGuide_2019_01_EN.pdf


That's cool, but the first expansion pack is more EPs and pianos; and this CP is already loaded with a variety of the same. Meanwhile, as Scott pointed out, the instrument lacks a full compliment of bread 'n butter sounds to round out a single keyboard gig where a healthy handful of sounds beyond piano is needed.

The 300+ plus Voices from the Motif series, as found in the CP4, aren't necessary to have on the CP73/88; but the Sub sound category looks awfully thin right now.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: allan_evett] #2969265 01/16/19 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: allan_evett
Meanwhile, as Scott pointed out, the instrument lacks a full compliment of bread 'n butter sounds to round out a single keyboard gig where a healthy handful of sounds beyond piano is needed.


I'm sure the idea is to complement it with a MONTAGE smile on top (or a MODX, probably)...

That said, the Motif Voices included on the previous CP models were certainly a plus, so I am surprised if they indeed removed all those. But I guess these have more in common with the Reface CP than the CP1/4/5 - which didn't have anything besides the "electro-mechanical" sounds.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: BRW] #2969267 01/16/19 12:30 PM
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The question really is: if they are taking pages from the Nord Playbook, will these “missing” Motif voices come in future updates? and will there also be updated functionality? What is the size of the onboard flash ROM? or is it all RAM?


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2969268 01/16/19 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Oh wow, I didn't see the "4-zone MIDI controller" spec elsewhere, until reading the "what's new" snippet above. I'm pretty sure that's a step up from what most digital pianos (vs. DAW's like a MONTAGE) offer.


Yes its in the specs, but i can not find any direct way of comtrolling these zones..

Kawai mp have several direct buttons for the external zones..
Same goes for Rolands RD800.. and their RD2000 even more so..

4 buttons, 4 sliders and 4 knobs would ave been reat for direct controll of the external parts
There is room enough for this on the panel.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2969269 01/16/19 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
CP4 is a great pick regardless of these models. The 88 is even just a bit heavier.


Cp4 was perfect for lower keybed.. could have a 76 key just above it and still read and reach all he buttons..

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: KorgyPorky] #2969274 01/16/19 12:55 PM
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I hear a little birdie singing in my ear that the CP73 as a bottom board stage piano and the MODX7 as a top board synth is a dream rig covering all my bases ................. except organ ????


My Rig: Stage Piano: Korg Grandstage 73 - Organ: Hammond SKx - Amps: Motion Sound KP-500s - Mixer: Yamaha MGU10
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: KorgyPorky] #2969275 01/16/19 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Oh wow, I didn't see the "4-zone MIDI controller" spec elsewhere, until reading the "what's new" snippet above. I'm pretty sure that's a step up from what most digital pianos (vs. DAW's like a MONTAGE) offer.


Yes its in the specs, but i can not find any direct way of comtrolling these zones..

Kawai mp have several direct buttons for the external zones..
Same goes for Rolands RD800.. and their RD2000 even more so..

4 buttons, 4 sliders and 4 knobs would ave been reat for direct controll of the external parts
There is room enough for this on the panel.

You have to menu dive into Advanced Mode - so not easy to control you zones in realtime. I also don’t see an option to shift the Upper/Lower range of the internal sound generator. The example in the manual is bizarre: internal piano layered with 3 external splits.

I reckon they will realise an iPad app that will give you ‘live’ access the Zones and probably more besides.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: KorgyPorky] #2969279 01/16/19 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
What is the size of the onboard flash ROM? or is it all RAM?
RAM goes blank when it is powered down, so the sounds are stored in ROM or rewritable flash.

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
i can not find any direct way of comtrolling these zones..

Good point. It looks like you can store the settings of 4 external zones as part of a recallable Live Set sound, but there appears to be no real-time ability to alter the volume of a zone, or turn individual zones on or off.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott] #2969283 01/16/19 01:16 PM
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Great sound demo from Swedish keyboard player Jonas Gröning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBef8xbG...VZ5xPqVzYVw6f88

Last edited by Pianolando; 01/16/19 06:07 PM.
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Pianolando] #2969286 01/16/19 01:32 PM
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Every time Blake Angelos mentions Valium, I have to remind myself that he's talking about volume!


Casio PX-S1000 | Yamaha CP4 | Yamaha MODX 8 | Yamaha Tyros 5-76 | Nord Electro 5D-73 | Moog Sub 37
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ChazKeys] #2969289 01/16/19 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChazKeys
I reckon they will realise an iPad app that will give you ‘live’ access the Zones and probably more besides.

Could be, but it's not really a great solution for zone levels, compared to knobs. Touchscreen operation is more finicky, the iPad may not be so well located, you may want your iPad to be displaying something else (your lyrics/charts, or some app that you're actually driving from your zones)... What I'd like to see is something like: you hit some button combination, and then the four knobs for EP Insert Effects (Depth, Rate, Depth, Speed) instead function as volume controls for the four zones. Something could flash to indicate you were in this alternate mode (i.e. the buttons you hit to invoke this mode, or the lights around the knobs themselves).


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott] #2969296 01/16/19 02:38 PM
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CP88's 1-to-1 UI and better connectivity (audio ins with gain control and built-in 2x2 audio interface) are quite appealing, along with updatable OS and sounds. Organ and master controller UI/controls seem a bit lacking. Wonder how well it would pair with a Mojo 61?

Using a Mojo 61 for waterfall keys and organ duties, as well as an iPad/iPhone for synths and missing sounds seems like an option.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: tfort] #2969299 01/16/19 02:43 PM
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If I was still gigging regularly with a band, I would seriously consider replacing my Kawai MP7 with this board. This has a lot of features (dual audio inputs with gain controls for one) that the CP4 lacked.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Aidan] #2969302 01/16/19 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: Aidan
Every time Blake Angelos mentions Valium, I have to remind myself that he's talking about volume!


laugh Yikes, Aidan! Very glad my coffee mug was on my desk, and not in use when I read that..


"Someday, we will look back on these days and laugh. It may be a maniacal laugh from within the confines of our padded cells, but it will be a laugh nonetheless" - Mr. Boffo.







Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: allan_evett] #2969303 01/16/19 03:17 PM
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Speaking of Nord comparisons, do these boards have that super-advanced feature that lets you put the split point anywhere you want?

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Polkahero] #2969304 01/16/19 03:21 PM
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I agree with Scott, the limited sound set if the most puzzling aspect of this board. It's a $2,000+ keyboard with far fewer sounds than keyboards in the $700 range. Why? Sure, new sounds will be available, but I can't believe it would have added much if anything to the cost to have, say, 100 sounds to begin with.

On the spectrum between gigging keyboard to workstation, this is much more the former. So violins and glockenspiel are a low priority. Having a dozen lead synth patches rather than just 2 would gain a lot more mileage.

But thinking of it as a piano/epiano board with a little bit extra, it's still attractive to me, especially the 73. The competition in my mind would be the Grandstage, the Nord Electro/Stage, and the Forte.

I had a Grandstage for awhile. I liked it, but the CP73 has some clear advantages in surface controls (GS very weak), weight, and probably a better action. This is putting aside whether you like Yamaha or Korg pianos better (imo, Yammy wins for ACs, Korg for EPs).

Nord HPs have some clear advantages, but are more expensive and give you an inferior action. For a piano-heavy gig, I'd much rather be on a CP.

I don't know the Forte except that it's much more expensive.

I may get a CP73. If I do, it will be to have Yamaha ACs in a very portable weighted-key package.


Crumar Seven, Crumar Mojo 61, Korg Vox Continental, Yamaha CP73.

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Josh Paxton] #2969305 01/16/19 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Josh Paxton
Speaking of Nord comparisons, do these boards have that super-advanced feature that lets you put the split point anywhere you want?


My god, what kind of miracles do you expect from these companies?

Busch.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: burningbusch] #2969313 01/16/19 03:54 PM
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So besides oodles of knobs and tweak-ability (I like simplicty like the CP4 interface) Is this new thingy the best sounding digital piano ever? Have they left behind the traditional Yamaha technique of sampling a real piano note and then reusing it by transposing it for several keys giving it that all the same sounding quality|?| So is this now the best feeling action and dynamic response (ppp- fff) ever? Better than CP4?

I recall Roland stated moving backwards in DP quality, after their SX stuff, when Super Natural" came along (imo).

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott] #2969318 01/16/19 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
To me, the biggest head scratcher is the tiny sound set. Here are some common sounds it seems you won't find in these CPs: accordion, harmonica, flute, violin, trumpet, sax, brass section, voices (except for an "air choir" pad), ... forget anything "exotic" like a mellotron or a sitar. Even as a high end piano-centric board, I'm surprised that there are only two clav sounds (so not even covering the 4 basic clav pickup positions)... though take heart, there are 6 FM EP sounds. ;-)

As a single gigging board, unless you're really piano/EP focussed, I'd look at supplementing with an iPad, and then at least the board's good MIDI controller functions come into play, which is an area where it has a leg up on other piano-centric limited soundset boards like the Korg SV1, Crumar Seven, or some of the piano models with built-in speakers. But with so much of the board's appeal being in the grab-and-go sound selection/manipulation, at a $2k+ price, it's really a shame that its sound selection is as limited as it is. Nowhere near what you'd get in a Nord Piano 4 or a Korg Grandstage.

As part of a pair, this small sound set may make more demands of a second board, so if you were thinking about pairing with a drawbar organ or knobby synth, you may also have to think about how/whether your second board can provide some of these other common sounds.


It looks like some manufacturers worry to much to not cannibalize sale s of their other models, forgetting that many customers may look at their competition instead of their other models. With such a limited soundset, I might just get a weighted controller under the NS3C and save some money.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: gg22] #2969329 01/16/19 04:46 PM
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It remains to be seen what additional sounds Yamaha will provide. It wouldn't surprise me if user requests might influence that.

However, the PDF from Easy Sounds says:
"CP is Yamaha's acronym for Combo Piano."
---- and ----
"The new CP series from Yamaha provides an answer to the question of what standards are set for a Stage Piano today."

Those statements may or may not be a clue to Yamaha's intent.


Yamaha: Motif XF6 and XS6, A3000V2, A4000, YS200 | Korg: T3EX, 05R/W | Fender Chroma Polaris | Roland U-220 | Etc.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: MIDI2XS] #2969333 01/16/19 05:27 PM
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So now the only thing that matters is if Yamaha compares to Nord? Really? I think most Yamaha products can stand on their own two feet.

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Outkaster] #2969335 01/16/19 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Outkaster
So now the only thing that matters is if Yamaha compares to Nord? Really? I think most Yamaha products can stand on their own two feet.

Absolutely agree. Some of us already have Nords that do the Nord-thing pretty well. I've always liked Yamahas for doing what I've considered the Yamaha-thing pretty well - producing some of the best sounds then-currently available along with some of the best keyboard mechanisms then-currently available with great connectivity of the two (and accepting in that bargain that the UI may not be the most advanced or intuitive and that the organs generally aren't usable).


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Outkaster] #2969363 01/16/19 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: Outkaster
I think most Yamaha products can stand on their own two feet.
Which two feet do they have? That seems unstable or at least "teetery." All the keyboards I have ever owned had four feet.

poke wink


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