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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009183 09/23/19 01:35 PM
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Very cool. I will check this out at home.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009187 09/23/19 02:02 PM
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Haven't downloaded yet (seeing this just as I'm leaving for work). On paper it's clearly an improvement -- just having a few more lead synth sounds is great -- but not a game changer. The CP is still a piano-centered board lacking enough additional sounds to get you through most gigs. They don't list any "new" organ sounds, but I'm curious whether they've improved the existing ones at all. To me, that's where the CP is a non-starter as an all-in-one board, because the organs are not gig-useable.

Anyway, I wasn't expecting a miracle. This is about what I expected. I never planned on using the CP as an all-in-one.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009192 09/23/19 02:58 PM
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Unless they added a mono mode and portamento, it may still be too limited to pull off a lot of lead synth stuff. I haven't actually heard the CP's organs, but assuming they're at least comparable to the MotifXS/MOX/MX, I think they can get you by for a lot of typical gigs where you just need an occasional organ sound, and are in line with most rompler organs people without clonewheels have been gigging with for many years. I guess I put organ and synth in the same category for this kind of board... don't expect much, but sometimes you don't need much. All I'd expect out of a board like this are strong "piano type" sounds (where I still find the dearth of clav sounds surprising), with basic "get you by" sounds for everything else (where there are still a few gaps, IMO).


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009206 09/23/19 03:57 PM
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That should flesh it out a bit. Good to see them follow through on this, and in Sept. as promised.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009209 09/23/19 04:12 PM
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Looks like minimal OS update, really wanted a better organ and "other" sound choices... oh well, returned it.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009210 09/23/19 04:19 PM
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Why would someone by this for organ patches? Especially on a weighted board. It makes no sense.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009216 09/23/19 04:37 PM
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CP organs are not as good as those on MODX.

The question is not why would you buy the CP for organ. The question is, are the CP organs good enough to get you through even a very low priority gig where you'd prefer to bring only the CP to minimize shlep. For me, the answer is no.


Crumar Mojo 61, Vintage Vibe 64, Yamaha CP73, a bunch of melodicas

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009234 09/23/19 05:22 PM
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Yes, there is some organ improvement on the MODX/Montage compared to the earlier Motif series, largely by virtue of the introduction of "multi part single instruments" which allow you to create an organ sound with more than 8 elements (necessary if you want the equivalent of 9 separate drawbars plus things like key click and leakage). But while obviously not good enough for everyone, lots of people have managed to get by with those previous generation Motif organ sounds as well (which is why I said "assuming they're at least comparable to the MotifXS/MOX/MX"). It's the wrong board for an organ-centric gig, obviously. But for organ, lots of players just need something passable for a few songs. I've used those organ sounds on plenty of gigs myself. I think even that level of organ makes the CP88/73 more useful for a lot of players than if it had no organ at all.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009241 09/23/19 06:07 PM
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It's just weird. I never thought of using a Yamaha for organ centered stuff? It never occurred to me, and I had every one of the S80 and S90 units except the ES model. I mean there are so many clones out there can do the job better so I take it in the context it was designed for. I am sure Yamaha does it as a courtesy but that can't be the focus of this board to provide Hammond emulation?

Last edited by Outkaster; 09/24/19 02:23 PM.

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Outkaster] #3009246 09/23/19 06:38 PM
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And with more and more people using iPads you can just get a copy of Galileo or even use the organ in Korg Module. Just one USB and a CCK and your good to go. Plus up to 4 zones and lots of controller options for your iPad apps.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009276 09/23/19 08:15 PM
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In my Chicago tribute situation, I use Mojo61 over CP4. The CP4 has a polyphonic synth sound that is serviceable, especially since I can edit the filter. (think of the huge crescendo near the end of Hard Habit to Break).

When you owners of CP88 try out the new sounds, can you comment on any new analog polyphonic synth patches? Are there big ole polyphonic (brass?) patches ? Is there anything approaching filter editing?

I guess I can wait for Guitar Center to download 1.2 before I try it out. I’ll search for YouTube videos.

The idea of having 3 layers is appealing. A number of our tunes have AP, dx7, and analog poly mixed at various levels. I like to have only some of them respond to expression pedal.

Last edited by Barryjam; 09/24/19 03:53 PM.

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009404 09/24/19 02:13 PM
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I found the new sounds somewhat disappointing -- but some of the pads do sound ok. I agree on the comments on the bread and butter stuff. I really need accordion, violin, etc. And there's got to be an opportunity to improve those organs. I don't need clone quality, just something useble.

Compared to the Roland RD2000 -- there's just a scarcity of what I would call essential sounds in the additional sound category.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009406 09/24/19 02:25 PM
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You like the Roland RD2000 piano? I think the action is terrible. I actually considered it for awhile.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009411 09/24/19 02:52 PM
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I guess it comes down to if a CP is right for ones needs, at home or gigging.
If acoustic pianos and electric pianos are the bulk of it, Yamaha CPs are great for the action and those sounds.
On this line, the ancillary sounds are always stuff for splits and layers with the pianos.
If action isn’t the priority but huge sound palette is, the MODX is a better choice.
If organ is your thing - we’ve lamented Yamaha’s efforts in that for a while.
The Genos or Montage are good, but you might want to look elsewhere for organs.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009414 09/24/19 03:22 PM
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If you need nice sounding pianos , electric pianos and organs you should give the Dexibell S7 pro a try , they also have a lot of other nice sounds but space is limited and I think the action would not be as nice as the CP 88 .

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Outkaster] #3009437 09/24/19 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
You like the Roland RD2000 piano? I think the action is terrible. I actually considered it for awhile.


I liked the action, but the sound live, man it was same old same Roland for me - sounds good playing by yourself, get it into a band context and it disappears. And this was in a very controlled environment - live in the studio with pretty good phones..

I went back and had a second play on the CP88 and P-515 next to each other. For pop/rock band stuff, the CP88 all the way. For Acoustic Jazz Trio context, or at home solo, or on a solo piano gig, I'd go with the P-515.

In spite of the 48 lbs. of the 515, I'd consider using it out on occasion, if the load in wasn't a hassle. It wasn't as wide and with the overall bulk of the RD 2000, so easier to move around. I picked it up off the stand and it didn't feel all that bad.

It plays much better then the CP4.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009438 09/24/19 05:19 PM
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Dexibel’s Combo J7 has not been popular on this board. I wanted to love it, on paper it checked a lot of boxes. But the Leslie effect is very week compared to what we get onboard from Crumar, Hammond, Roland, Korg, Nord. Also the non-organ tones are nothing to write home about. I know the S model non-organ sounds may be better? I wound up with a B stock VR-700 (the 730 hadn’t appeared yet) when I was in the market. But ya, for acoustic pianos sounds Dexibell is building a following. Still, for piano I much prefer the Yamaha action on the CP4, CP88 compared to other slab DPs in the sub +/- $2k area.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009447 09/24/19 06:11 PM
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I think if you tweak the organs properly on the Dexibells you can get a pretty nice sound out of them , I use the spring reverb which is the last effect on my S3 . I played out with it about a month ago and the lead guitar player asked me what I was using for a leslie to speed up and slow down the organ sound and I told him it was the stock sound from the filter wheel , but he liked it . I was setting in with their keyboard player and he had a 7year old alesis that weighted 80 pounds and he liked the S3 and was amazed it weighted 23 pounds I would really like for someone to do a shootout with the Yamaha cp 88 Grand piano sound and the Dexibell Platinum Japanese piano sound to see which one sounds better .

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Dave Ferris] #3009462 09/24/19 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

I went back and had a second play on the CP88 and P-515 next to each other. For pop/rock band stuff, the CP88 all the way. For Acoustic Jazz Trio context, or at home solo, or on a solo piano gig, I'd go with the P-515.


Dave-

Is that solely based on the extra resonances of the 515's piano sound compared to the CP88, or do you also feel the escapement adds something to the action that is noticeable in a jazz trio context? I'd have thought the extra 7 pounds of speakers you won't use would tip the scales toward the CP88 for jazz piano gigs.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009470 09/24/19 08:10 PM
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I was under the impression CP88 and P515 have identical actions?

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009946 09/27/19 02:55 AM
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Just pulled the trigger on the CP-73. Arrives Monday, hoping forum members who own one can help with any problems I have figuring out a new keyboard.
I will read the manual, but never been too tech savvy so I'm hoping it will be fairly easy to navigate!!

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: tfort] #3009951 09/27/19 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by tfort
Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

I went back and had a second play on the CP88 and P-515 next to each other. For pop/rock band stuff, the CP88 all the way. For Acoustic Jazz Trio context, or at home solo, or on a solo piano gig, I'd go with the P-515.


Dave-

Is that solely based on the extra resonances of the 515's piano sound compared to the CP88, or do you also feel the escapement adds something to the action that is noticeable in a jazz trio context? I'd have thought the extra 7 pounds of speakers you won't use would tip the scales toward the CP88 for jazz piano gigs.


Hi, yes I heard, again, the P-515 as having a thicker tone and better sustain then the CP88, which sounds good but more compressed to me. Probably why the later is geared more for pop/rock bands. With regard to the P515 action, it just felt closer to an acoustic grand. In fact the entire instrument player connection was more "piano friendly" to me.

The 7 lbs. is a noticeable jump up, actually 10 lbs. from what I'm used to carrying- the CP4. Like I said though, I wouldn't be bringing it all the time. In fact I'm gigging so little , especially with an electronic keyboard, as it is, it's definitely a non-issue at this juncture. I'd keep the CP4 as my "lightweight" DP though.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009983 09/27/19 12:08 PM
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Dave I love mine. I mean the build quality is great and it reminded me why I like Yamaha keyboards in general. I can understand the P515 being better for your needs but I am more impressed with this than when I first got it a couple of weeks ago. I just updated the OS last night to the new version.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3012631 10/16/19 06:26 PM
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Has anyone heard anything more about the black key issue on the 73? Latest word on the yamasynth.com forum seems to be that it affects some 73s and not others but no word on a fix. Doesn't appear to affect the 88 at all. The 73 is the one I want but not until this is resolved. Not willing to roll the dice and hope for a good one.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Pa Gherkin] #3015342 11/08/19 07:10 PM
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Ok, as of about 3 weeks ago the best suggestion from Yamaha on the Yamahasynth forum is to buy a CP88 instead of the 73 in order to avoid the " black key issue." For gigging I find the 73's size and weight much more attractive. Yamaha hedged and blamed,among other things,the stand being used causing the issue. Someone else said a real piano behaves in a manner similar to the 73's black key issue. Interesting since the 88 doesn't do this. Having played many acoustic pianos of varying makes and models I've never run into such a thing. Yes,people have CP73s that play fine but some don't. Seems like Yamaha's response to this issue rather half baked. Phooey. No CP 73 for me.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3015347 11/08/19 07:57 PM
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The 88 is really manageable with the proprietary case. It's lighter than my forte and is really a good board regardless of the "black key issue" It's really a minor thing compared to what else the keyboard has to offer.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Outkaster] #3015545 11/11/19 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
The 88 is really manageable with the proprietary case. It's lighter than my forte and is really a good board regardless of the "black key issue" It's really a minor thing compared to what else the keyboard has to offer.


Thanks for sharing your take on the CP88. As I understand it only the 73 has the black key issue. Every reaction I've read or heard concerning the 88 says it plays great. Good to hear you're happy with it. I was looking forward to the smaller size and weight of the 73. Another biggie for me regarding both the 73 and 88is the use of an internal power supply and a real AC cord. Good on Yamaha for that. Right now I'm weighing the pros and cons of the 88. Still not sure I'll go that route since stuff over 40 lbs is a bit tough on this old bod. We'll see.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3015560 11/11/19 07:05 AM
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I just switched over from the CP73 to the CP88 (thanks to my dealer).
Yamaha denied the Problem with the black keys…… well, maybe some models have it, some not.
Mine had it.

The CP88 plays and feels fantastic (I played a CP4 in the past but the user interface was a PITA).
The GUI and sounds are great.

I wanted a lightweight gigging board. But the CP88 is worth the extra schlepping.
;-)


Studio: Hammond XK5-XLK5, Yamaha P-515, Prophet 6, Yamaha Montage 7, Korg Wavedrum, Neo Vent
Live: Yamaha CP88, UHL X4-V2, Leslie 760 (11pin-mod), KP500S
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3015589 11/11/19 02:14 PM
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It's not that heavy and I have owned a lot of 88 keys. Playing a 73 note keyboard is like not being 21 and old enough to drink legally.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Outkaster] #3015624 11/11/19 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
Playing a 73 note keyboard is like not being 21 and old enough to drink legally.


nice analogy, Jason. laugh
I'm sure everyone won't agree, but I like it. cheers


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
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