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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3004185 08/20/19 03:15 PM
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What are they saying... unique to the 73s action - or on the 88 as well?


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Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3004196 08/20/19 04:07 PM
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Yes, 73 only.

It is not on the CP88!

I noticed it when playing some boogie/RnR stuff....


Studio: Hammond XK5-XLK5, Yamaha P-515, Prophet 6, Yamaha Montage 7, Korg Wavedrum, Neo Vent
Live: Yamaha CP88, UHL X4-V2, Leslie 760 (11pin-mod), KP500S
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3004219 08/20/19 05:40 PM
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I guess I can see why this would be noticeable playing some styles, like a percussive rock hammer technique. "Noticeable" does not necessarily mean problematic. I think it's fairly subtle. I'd be very curious if you put a CP73 next to a real Yamaha grand whether you could do on the grand what you can't do on the 73. In other words, are people wanting a perfect key response that is beyond what the real instrument can do? But what is most strange about it, to me, is that it's only the black keys. That it's different for black v white keys suggests it should be fixed.

I was in Guitar Center yesterday and played the CP73 and 88's that were next to each other. First time I've done that since getting my 73. It just reinforced my view that the CP88 is the one to get if your focus is acoustic piano, while the 73 is better if your focus is on EPs. I made the right choice for my band gigs because for those I'm playing almost exclusively EPs. Would I do an AP-focused gig with the 73? Sure I would, and it would be fine, but it would be better with the 88.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3004223 08/20/19 06:16 PM
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For sure the 73 is for reduced weight size and some cost.
The 88k has one of the best actions we’ve ever had on a stage piano, certainly at 41lbs. The CP4 is also excellent at 38lbs. Definitely preferable if you don’t mind the size and weight and you are playing acoustic piano mostly.
But Yamaha historically doesn’t have a horrible weighted action, GHS, GH, GH3, GH3X, NW, NWX will all get the job done with AP sounds. The BHS in the 73 I’m assuming is a balanced GHS, and the NW-GH in the 88 must be a variant on the GH with the wood.

The MODX is way more versatile sonically and in programming than the CPs, but the MODX8 uses the GHS action. I didn’t find that to be a problem playing acoustic piano on it. It speaks quite well. But I’d still pick the CP88 if acoustic piano was very primary even with the huge sound palette coming from the Montage. Looking forward to more sounds in the Sept. firmware update, however.

I recently played the Crumar Seven - which has a TP-100. I typically do not care for this action on most models that use it. However it actually feels very Rhodes like on the Seven with the modeled Rhodes sound engine. I didn’t care for it for acoustic piano and obviously it’s not great for clavs. But that’s the crux of it with digitals we expect to do everything. We just pick the one that suits the gigs we’re doing.



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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Adan] #3004324 08/21/19 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Adan
I guess I can see why this would be noticeable playing some styles, like a percussive rock hammer technique. "Noticeable" does not necessarily mean problematic. I think it's fairly subtle. I'd be very curious if you put a CP73 next to a real Yamaha grand whether you could do on the grand what you can't do on the 73. In other words, are people wanting a perfect key response that is beyond what the real instrument can do? But what is most strange about it, to me, is that it's only the black keys. That it's different for black v white keys suggests it should be fixed.
.


I have to disagree.
It's not subtle and maybe not problematic for your playing
but it's not a "normal" behaviour for black keys (none of my weighted and unweighted
boards shows this).

Should be an easy fix in the scan routine firmware.
We'll see.


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Live: Yamaha CP88, UHL X4-V2, Leslie 760 (11pin-mod), KP500S
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: M_G] #3004422 08/21/19 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by M_G

I have to disagree.
It's not subtle and maybe not problematic for your playing
but it's not a "normal" behaviour for black keys (none of my weighted and unweighted
boards shows this).



Fair enough. After deliberatly looking for the problem and finally noticing it, I can see why folks who play a particular way might find it problematic. Prior to that, I had been playing the CP73 every day for a couple months and never even noticed it. I'm just trying to give folks who might be reading this, and who can't actually play one, some perspective to help them decide whether this is a deal-breaker. But I think there's an argument to be made that if you play the sort of piano styles where this might a problem, you might want to be leaning towards the CP88 in the first place, because it's going to work better for you regardless of this bug.


Crumar Mojo 61, Vintage Vibe 64, Yamaha CP73, a bunch of melodicas

roccoromanucci.com
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Adan] #3004464 08/22/19 04:22 AM
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Wow,glad I asked. Thank you Adan,jimkost,and M_G for your comments on the black key issue. I also searched out the black key phenomenom on a couple of Yamaha forums and came away seemingly enlightened. Rock,boogie woogie and New Orleans piano along with other styles are significant contents in my trick bag and as such I'm really going to have to vet the action on the 73. I once had a Roland dp that exhibited this same trait on both black and white keys and ,for me, it was miserable. BTW, Roland was no help whatsoever. The weight and size of the 73 along with some of its other features are what got me interested in it as a gigging piano. I can get all the great 88 key action I want at home on my acoustic. I still look forward to trying the 73. Thanks again guys.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3005483 08/28/19 12:56 PM
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Well I pulled the trick on the CP88 and got a great deal. I will let you know what I think about it when I dive into it more. I will still keep the Forte though. The CP88 will work well for soul gigs or an Americana band I play with sometimes.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3005499 08/28/19 04:05 PM
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Please tell us about the deal too!

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Outkaster] #3005541 08/28/19 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
I will let you know what I think about it when I dive into it more.


I'm most curious what you think about the Wurlitzer EP's. I love the AP' s, really dug the upright piano. We all know Yamaha does great with Rhodes EP's.
The only keyboard company that I am 100% sold on for Wurlitzer EP's is your fav red ones.
smile


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3005575 08/29/19 12:49 AM
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Well, that orange Vox Continental comes pretty close too.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Fleer] #3005578 08/29/19 12:53 AM
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OT to this thread but agree, I own a Vox 63 and had it sitting on top of my Wurlitzer 200 for quite a while. It's pretty close, but it's not all the way there. Yes, this is only my opinion but as I can A/B them to the real thing it's an educated opinion.


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3005580 08/29/19 01:53 AM
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Ideal set up to compare. Do you find Nord beats the Vox Continental on Wurli?

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Fleer] #3005589 08/29/19 03:35 AM
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yes, they are more expensive however


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3005625 08/29/19 01:23 PM
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IMO, the Wurlies on the Yamaha are top notch. Having played live and recorded with140s,145s, 112s and 200s, I can authoritatively say Yamaha KILLS Nord. And I’ve toured and backlined EVERY Nord Electro and Stage since the first iterations of both.
Nord has a “hard stop” on ALL their EP samples that make for a less organic experience than Yamaha.
I’ve also backlined all the Motifs, S90, Montage and just about every Korg too.
Korgs are next best EPs after Yamaha.

Being more than 30 days in on a CP88, I still find it to be the most satisfying emulator I have played thus far.
I haven't ever had a less than inspirational or “want to keep playing” feeling on this board, and isn't that what we all strive for??
My only issue is that I have to have hernia surgery in 2 weeks and wont be able to schlep the CP out for a good long while so Im considering a VC 73 as a backup gigging keyboard for EPs in the meantime!


"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3005630 08/29/19 02:04 PM
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thanks for that info, Jim. Best to you on your upcoming surgery. As far as the Wurlitzers, I'll defer to your ear.


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3005634 08/29/19 03:13 PM
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It's subjective and varies with the model, but I tend to like Korg, Kurzweil, Kawai, and Casio Wurlis better than Yamaha, Nord, or Roland.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: davedoerfler] #3005637 08/29/19 03:39 PM
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Thanks for the good wishes, Dave!


"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3006844 09/06/19 01:57 PM
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September OS update Yamaha? The dust cloud is the other big dogs on the block moving forward.


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3006848 09/06/19 02:11 PM
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I think Yamaha has turned over a new leaf with software update promises. At least it's been that way since they bought Steinberg (I have no idea if getting those engineers helped in this regard or not). A few weeks left in September.


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Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3006892 09/06/19 06:27 PM
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Man I love this board. I had to learn how to navigate it a little but it feels great. The build quality is nice and tight. The unit feels secure. It's even better then when I played it at GC in Buffalo. I love the action. This will be great for piano centered gigs. I will still keep the Forte of course.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3007087 09/07/19 09:33 PM
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But it seems that it needs a second tier mate to "complete" it like say, a MODX or a FA-06 for bread & butter. That's why I'm intrigued on the September surprise, hope it's better "other" sounds.


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3007917 09/13/19 01:30 PM
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Got the CP88 & very impressed with the APs & EPs, paired it with my FA-06 and it's great! Light weight, solid sounds (except the organ on both boards fall flat) that can cover any cover band needs. Hopefully the September OS update will bring game.


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3007950 09/13/19 05:28 PM
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Just got mine yesterday. Best feeling keyboard I’ve owned. Last one I had that was close was RD700NX and this is an improvement by a long shot.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3008017 09/14/19 10:30 AM
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I really dig both CP’s for ac.piano, but I wish the Rhodes had a little more flavor. It sounds great, but doesn’t make me boogie.

Oddly, the Rhodes on the Krome may not be the most authentic, but it definitely gives me the vibe.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3008069 09/15/19 02:08 AM
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Krome love, now that’s unique.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009158 09/23/19 07:49 AM
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Update 1.2 is now available for download. 30 new sounds and some tweaks to the OS including being able to assign a controller to USB volume. Handy if you are using an iPad.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009159 09/23/19 08:24 AM
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Here's a grab of some of the new sounds.

Attached Files
Screenshot 2019-09-23 at 09.20.44.png (26.95 KB, 111 downloads)
New Sounds - Strings
Screenshot 2019-09-23 at 09.20.36.png (44.63 KB, 104 downloads)
Other
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ChazKeys] #3009160 09/23/19 08:29 AM
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The download is over 1.2Gb - so must be overwriting the last update and then adding the sounds from V1.1 plus the new sounds. So it probably includes about 100Mb of new stuff - clunky way of doing things. Another couple of OB Brass sounds (why?) but at least they have now added 1 (One) Brass sound - let's hope it's a good 'un!

Last edited by ChazKeys; 09/23/19 09:10 AM. Reason: Updated
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3009176 09/23/19 12:23 PM
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Here's the complete list of new sounds:

[Linked Image from yamahasynth.com]

Good to see staples harmonica, flute, brass. Mellotrons ia a nice surprise. Still missing for my ideal "bread and butter" set: accordion, sax, violin, trumpet, choir voices. I'm also surprised that this kind of piano-centric board still has just two clav sounds, I would have expected at least all 4 basic pickup settings.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
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