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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3001507 08/02/19 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
The RH3 on the Kronos 8 feels the same to me as the Grandstage, meh. I like it on the SV1 for EPs.
Sounds like we'd probably be in sync there.
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Not pleased with how it plays the APs on the SV1.
I wonder how much of that may be the limitations of the sound as opposed to the action. If you ever have the opportunity, it would be interesting to see how the SV1 feels triggering some VST or iOS piano you like.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3001513 08/02/19 01:54 PM
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That’s a good question, might be an improvement if the latency can be short and consistent, and the velocity curve well matched.

Last edited by ElmerJFudd; 08/02/19 01:55 PM.

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: sosho] #3001517 08/02/19 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sosho
Originally Posted by Adan
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Haven’t found a shop with the 73 on the floor yet. Anyone on how the action compares to the 88?


I've posted about this a few times. For piano technique, they don't really compare, the 88 feels much more piano-like. The 73, having the lighter action, is arguably better for rhodes, wurly, and clav.

I think it's more appropriate to compare the CP73 to keyboards that similarly sacrifice action for portability, and in that category it's the best action I've found. I also far prefer it over Korg's RH3. However, I haven't played the newest Casio weighted action, which some people rave about, so can't compare it to that.

How do you like your cp73 compared to your seven ? I know some of the sevens sounds from my gemini and I know the older yamaha cp5 . Thank you


The CP fairs better in that comparison than I thought it would. HIstorically I haven't been a huge fan of Yamaha's EP sounds, feeling they exhibit a certain flatness and lack of dynamics, but they've improved over time and the CP is the best and most dynamic to my ears. But the Crumar is more dynamic and allows you to dial in the ep you want. For EPs, I wish I could combine the action of the CP with the engine of the Crumar (sorry, no, Scott, I have not tried to midi them together). For AP, the sampled grand on the Crumar is certainly playable, but not the equal of the CP. I've been gigging with the CP for the better action, the better APs, and the better portability. But I still think the Crumar is very cool.


Crumar Mojo 61, Vintage Vibe 64, Yamaha CP73, a bunch of melodicas

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3001538 08/02/19 03:44 PM
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I recently had opportunity to play the Crumar Seven and the CP88 side by side.
The Seven has such a great look and vibe, the UI is very cool, and the sounds - generally very good, especially on Rhodes. The FX are very good too. Especially the wah. I was surprised that the action felt right for the Rhodes on the Seven. It feels a lot like the Rhodes I’ve played - though authentic this isn’t necessarily a good thing because it’s not great for playing clav or acoustic piano on.
What I really need to know about the Seven is can you select different velocity curves - better yet, if you can, can you save them with your patch? Otherwise, going forward - Crumar should consider including or selling cross supports like my mkI 88 has to stabilize the little bounce and wobble while playing seriously.

Tough decision between these two because while the Seven is so cool, the CP88 is the vibiest thing we’ve ever seen from Yamaha with a UI drawing similar inspiration. It lacks tolex and 4 screw in legs. But it has an amazing action and covers a lot of the same ground sonically - with acoustic pianos way out ahead. It needs a tap tempo feature on the delay perhaps and a major update in ancillary sounds - as has been discussed ad nauseam now. Organs in this instrument aren’t that important to me as I’d rather play them on a second board with the right action and controls. But bonus for convenience. All around, just a very practical instrument as we expect from Yamaha.

Would love to own them both (which is very impractical) for different reasons. The CP88 to gig. The Seven for home, rehearsal space and maybe out and about for occasional non piano centric gigs - which is rare.



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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3001607 08/02/19 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
It needs a tap tempo feature


seconded

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3001691 08/03/19 07:37 PM
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Got to play the CP88 next to the RD-2000 and the APs & EPs go to Yamaha but pretty much everything else goes to Roland. I always felt the RD series had weak organs but compared to the CP88 they're pretty good. Definitely hammer action and playability is superior on the CP88 & I'm a die hard Roland guy. On the fence & I like the concept, it's just those damm weak "other" sounds...


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3001692 08/03/19 07:46 PM
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I've said it before, if Roland makes a keyboard controller that uses that PHA-50 action, i'll buy it in a heart beat even if i already have what i need. I wonder why they stopped making 88 controllers after the A-88.

I've never been keen on their modeling engine, but then i'm biased against piano modeling philosophy hence i can't digest Pianoteq as well.

Last edited by Keepitsimple; 08/03/19 07:49 PM.
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: rickzjamm] #3001697 08/03/19 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rickzjamm
Got to play the CP88 next to the RD-2000 and the APs & EPs go to Yamaha but pretty much everything else goes to Roland. I always felt the RD series had weak organs but compared to the CP88 they're pretty good. Definitely hammer action and playability is superior on the CP88 & I'm a die hard Roland guy. On the fence & I like the concept, it's just those damm weak "other" sounds...


A lot of potential buyers will be watching for the new sounds promised for September update. I could “get by” with the current sub sounds, but more classic synth leads and pads, brass, etc. would finally get me to switch from CP4. I suspect I will forever be using a separate clone/key action for organ, so weak organ in a piano centric board means little to me.


Barry

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3001896 08/05/19 07:21 PM
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Has anyone here made use of the 1/4 inch inputs to mix a clonewheel or synth in lieu of using a mixer? Any downside to doing this? If I could eliminate having to lug a mixer for a 2 board rig it would be great. Looks like stereo or mono would be really easy. Whaddya think?

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Pa Gherkin] #3001912 08/05/19 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Pa Gherkin
Has anyone here made use of the 1/4 inch inputs to mix a clonewheel or synth in lieu of using a mixer? Any downside to doing this? If I could eliminate having to lug a mixer for a 2 board rig it would be great. Looks like stereo or mono would be really easy. Whaddya think?


I second this question. I’ve plugged my Mojo61 into the aux-in on my CP4 with excellent results. On CP88 there is a dedicated volume adjustment knob on the 1/4” inputs. On the CP4, the highest volume is a tad low with the Mojo61, which means I have to set the default Mojo61 to +10 rather than +4 pro level. Not a big deal, but I hope the highest volume on the CP88 for 1/4” inputs will be slightly higher gain than CP4.


Barry

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Barryjam] #3001926 08/05/19 10:04 PM
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http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3001873

review from Dave Ferris on a different Yamaha CP 88 thread :

Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
Getting around to posting this, as last week I was able to finally play the CP88 and P-515 next to each other. I had my Senn HD-650s , so there would be no afterthoughts about the quality of the phones.

My initial impressions at NAMM were confirmed again, 7 months later -- with the exception of the CP88 had a warmer and more organic sound then I heard in the over the top sonic assault at the Marriott ballroom , with pitiful quality phones..

The P- 515 has a more piano like action and the overall pianistic connection for a serious pianist closer emulates an acoustic piano. Taking the phones off, yes, the internal speakers do add to the overall piano player experience, without a doubt ! The 515 has a thicker and richer tone as well.

The CFX on the CP88 is voiced differently then the P515. At first A/B listen, I heard an obvious thinner and more compressed sound. But the more I kept going back and forth, I began to like the CP88 on its own merits. The sustain seemed to make the mid to higher octaves sing out better then my CP4. I didn't have it through speakers, where it is more noticeable then the phones, but there wasn't that break around the C6 octave where things thin out, like on the CP4.

After about 15 minutes I actually started to get used to and enjoy the overall connection of the CP88 a little more. Playing the CP88, I could envision it as sounding more clear and present out on a gig with bass, drums and guitar - especially louder volume rock/pop/ RnB - then the P515. For softer Jazz contexts, the P515 will work well however. And as goes without saying - running in stereo, the best quality speakers you can afford will produce the best sonic results live, with either Yamaha.

And there's no comparison between the rhodes and wurlis , with the CP88 obviously sounding superior. I usually don't spend much time with "other sounds" but since so many people have been ragging on them, I did check out some of the pads one might use to layer an AP with. To my ears they aren't that bad, certainly on par with the CP4 and probably better.

Conversely, no question they're superior to the provided Grand Stage at the church, which I struggle to find a pad to layer the German mono grand with that sounds decent. There's only one on the Korg- legato strings- that works with the #9 German mono grand. On my CP4 there are a solid half dozen I can go to when I want that effect.

All this said about both the CP88 and P-515, I still don't feel like either are a monumental upgrade from the CP4, at least for APs, and for what I need it for - to emulate an Acoustic piano in a Jazz context.

Either one would be a noticeable improvement for certain but since I'm not doing many live gigs anymore, it's not high on my priority list.


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Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3001987 08/06/19 01:19 PM
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Thanks to DD and Dave Ferrs!


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Dukerbud88] #3003458 08/16/19 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Dukerbud88
The keybed, Well, it truly came down to the CP4, the RD2000 and the CP88. The CP4 was great for sure as was the RD2000 but after a number of jumps between the CP88 and the RD 2000 I found the RD was a little heavier than the CP88 and the CP4 was a little lighter so the CP88 was the perfect balance between the two.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and considerations before buying the CP88. Regarding the keybeds of the CP4 and CP88 this statement confirms their keybeds are identical except for the textured surface of the CP88: https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/cp88-keybed

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3003475 08/16/19 12:46 PM
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Yeah, perception is a tricky thing.
It’s really common we see different opinions of the same actions in different boards.
The chassis they mount it on and the sound engines being used mess with our perception of the mechanics.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3003478 08/16/19 01:38 PM
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Is this what we’ve been waiting for?

CP88/CP73 V1.10 Operating System Updater
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/cp88_cp73_os.html

V1.00 to V1.10

New features

You can now load a specific Live Set Sound from all data files.
A new function “MIDI Control Delay” has been added to the Advanced Settings.
New Voices have been added.
New Live Set Sounds have been added.
CP is now compatible with Soundmondo.
Fixed problems

Fixed minor problems.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Kurt W] #3003509 08/16/19 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurt W
Originally Posted by Dukerbud88
The keybed, Well, it truly came down to the CP4, the RD2000 and the CP88. The CP4 was great for sure as was the RD2000 but after a number of jumps between the CP88 and the RD 2000 I found the RD was a little heavier than the CP88 and the CP4 was a little lighter so the CP88 was the perfect balance between the two.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and considerations before buying the CP88. Regarding the keybeds of the CP4 and CP88 this statement confirms their keybeds are identical except for the textured surface of the CP88: https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/cp88-keybed


After owning a CP4 and playing a Cp88 there's no way I would have thought they had the same keybed apart from the textured finish. They felt like different keybeds to me. As Elmer said its probably the manner in which they're mounted plays a large part and indeed the way in which the software transmits the sound via whatever sensors they use.

I've found the modx8 more playable than it's predecessor the moxf8 yet they apparently have the same keybed.


Casio PXS3000, MODX8, Hammond SK2.
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3003569 08/16/19 09:10 PM
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Anyone know what the "new voices" are?

Cheers, Mike.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3003572 08/16/19 09:18 PM
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Jimkost2002 just bought a CP88.
He’s going to give the firmware upgrade a go.
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/cp88_cp73_os.html

Hope he comes right quick afterward to let us know about the sound additions.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3003578 08/16/19 09:56 PM
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The Yamaha website says this firmware was released in January. It’s been discussed previously on this thread.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3003586 08/16/19 10:36 PM
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Correct - the update was released ages ago. New sounds - C7 piano, 2 x 67 Rhodes sounds and a Wide Wurly.

Next update is planned for September - I hope they beef up the Sub section.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3003591 08/16/19 11:01 PM
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Ah. Bitch. I was just checking randomly to see when it shows up.
Now I know. Thanks for the check in.

Yes, the sub section!


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Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Pa Gherkin] #3003620 08/17/19 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Pa Gherkin
Originally Posted by Barryjam
Originally Posted by Pa Gherkin
Has anyone here made use of the 1/4 inch inputs to mix a clonewheel or synth in lieu of using a mixer? Any downside to doing this? If I could eliminate having to lug a mixer for a 2 board rig it would be great. Looks like stereo or mono would be really easy. Whaddya think?


I second this question. I’ve plugged my Mojo61 into the aux-in on my CP4 with excellent results. On CP88 there is a dedicated volume adjustment knob on the 1/4” inputs. On the CP4, the highest volume is a tad low with the Mojo61, which means I have to set the default Mojo61 to +10 rather than +4 pro level. Not a big deal, but I hope the highest volume on the CP88 for 1/4” inputs will be slightly higher gain than CP4.




Well Barry,it looks like you or I will have to drop a couple grand in order to ascertain the answer to this question. If I'm first I'll post my results.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3003642 08/17/19 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Ah. Bitch. I was just checking randomly to see when it shows up.
Now I know. Thanks for the check in.

Yes, the sub section!


just checked Elmer, its the old OS, the new update is Sept.... can’t wait!


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3003708 08/17/19 06:52 PM
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Me either. The CP88 is very compelling.
I’m this close to selling things off to get my hands on it.
But as we’ve discussed. Better if that 4th section with the misc. sounds gets fattened up.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3003933 08/19/19 03:13 AM
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Two reviews on the Sweetwater page for the instrument claim that the black keys on the CP73 don't produce full velocity when played "fast and hard". I suspect both reviews are from the same person. Can any CP73 owners here either confirm or deny this from their experiencie? Should be easy to tell.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Pa Gherkin] #3004055 08/19/19 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Pa Gherkin
Two reviews on the Sweetwater page for the instrument claim that the black keys on the CP73 don't produce full velocity when played "fast and hard". I suspect both reviews are from the same person. Can any CP73 owners here either confirm or deny this from their experiencie? Should be easy to tell.


Denied.


Crumar Mojo 61, Vintage Vibe 64, Yamaha CP73, a bunch of melodicas

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Adan] #3004059 08/19/19 08:46 PM
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Thank you Adan. I crave the 73. Going to try it asap.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Adan] #3004161 08/20/19 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Adan
Originally Posted by Pa Gherkin
Two reviews on the Sweetwater page for the instrument claim that the black keys on the CP73 don't produce full velocity when played "fast and hard". I suspect both reviews are from the same person. Can any CP73 owners here either confirm or deny this from their experiencie? Should be easy to tell.


Denied.


also denied—- i own an 88 but i put the 73 thru multiple tests with various jazz and classical examples at multiple dynamics and velocity... SW poster dude just doesn't have thoroughness or good technique or both..... beware always of overly negative un-specific reviews-or overly positive un-specific reviews as well!


"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3004169 08/20/19 01:44 PM
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Hi,

my CP73 shows this "black keys bug" too.
And some other users here in Germany confirmed.
It is also dicussed at the Yamaha Forum and
the software department is checking....

I hope for the September update and a fix....


Studio: Hammond XK5-XLK5, Yamaha P-515, Prophet 6, Yamaha Montage 7, Korg Wavedrum, Neo Vent
Live: Yamaha CP88, UHL X4-V2, Leslie 760 (11pin-mod), KP500S
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3004182 08/20/19 02:45 PM
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Now I see what they’re talking about. Playing a black note repeatedly, quickly, at maximum velocity, volume drops a little for the successive notes. I would have assumed that’s intentional, trying to replicate the limits of return of s real mechanism, but I don’t notice the same effect for white keys.

For me, this would make no possible difference in real playing. To hear this “bug”, I have to use a technique I’d never use while making music.


Crumar Mojo 61, Vintage Vibe 64, Yamaha CP73, a bunch of melodicas

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