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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: keyboardologist] #2983372 04/03/19 10:31 PM
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My contribution to the change page movement:

I was surprised to see that, among the programmable controls that Yamaha removed in these two keyboards as compared to the CP4 were Velocity Sensitivity Depth (VelDepth) and Velocity Sensitivity Offset (VelOfst). I use those a lot on my CP4.

Or are they there and I missed them?


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Mjazz] #2983376 04/03/19 11:03 PM
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My contribution to the change page movement:

I was noticing how similar the CP88 is to the Kawai MP11/MP11SE.

Like the CP, the Kawai similarly has three sections: Piano, EP, and Sub for everything else, with a relatively small number of sounds in each section with pretty direct selection, and with each section having its own volume control and key range selector. Each has banks of 8 buttons for calling up your custom combinations, and four zones of external MIDI control. The CP has an array of dedicated effects knobs, whereas Kawai has four programmable knobs. Kawai adds song recorder, audio recorder, rhythms, and includes their top of line piano sound and action.

Despite the similarities, the Kawai hasn't generated all the interest the CP has. I'm sure its 70+ lb schleppage is part of that. But I also wonder if Kawai might have raised a few more eyebrows simply by varying the size/shape/color of assorted controls, to give it more of the CP's eye candy appeal. I can kind of imagine a lightweight 73-key version of the MP11SE using an ES100 or ES110 action, and a spiffed up control surface (and maybe some tweaks to the sound set), as a nice answer to the CP73.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Mjazz] #2983388 04/04/19 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mjazz
My contribution to the change page movement:

I was surprised to see that, among the programmable controls that Yamaha removed in these two keyboards as compared to the CP4 were Velocity Sensitivity Depth (VelDepth) and Velocity Sensitivity Offset (VelOfst). I use those a lot on my CP4.

Or are they there and I missed them?


They removed the whole SCM modelling, which VelDepth and VelOfset were probably part of.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I can kind of imagine a lightweight 73-key version of the MP11SE using an ES100 or ES110 action, and a spiffed up control surface (and maybe some tweaks to the sound set), as a nice answer to the CP73.


That's not a bad idea. I'd love to have a Kawai stage piano based on ES110 action.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott] #2983390 04/04/19 01:01 AM
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Whew, glad we turned the page ... wink cry

You know I spent more time at NAMM this year on the MP11SE then probably any other keyboard, maybe with the exception of the new Avantgrand N1X.

The Kawai room was quiet. The only place at NAMM where it was !!

Yes, the MP11se obviously has the best action on a stage piano. And yes the new sample introduced last year is a significant improvement. It now plays and sounds equally great !

But for what I do - Jazz- and how I play, for whatever reason, and I don't even know if I can verbalize it -- the Kawai just doesn't speak to me like a Yamaha does when playing Jazz tunes and standards. And I'm always confident, they'll work (i.e. blend, cut through ), live, in any band context or musical style.

In comparison, my CP4 and even my now dated CP5 - they have just a crisp, clear sound and response that for me, that's as good as it's going to get in an electronic keyboard.

To give an approximate analogy, I play all these great acoustics, top of the line models - Bosendorfer, Yamaha, even Fazioli - but I always go home, open my piano and immediately say to myself , I wouldn't trade this for any of them. It's just right.

Anyway I'm veering OT. But would like to play the CP88 in a quiet environment to a do a fair assessment of it.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Dave Ferris] #2983394 04/04/19 02:34 AM
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[quote= But would like to play the CP88 in a quiet environment to a do a fair assessment of it. [/quote]


Please Dave do, walk out and test that CP88 for us. We need your opinion... smile

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: lvercaut] #2983401 04/04/19 03:00 AM
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Woops, I posted in the wrong thread at first. Fixing that now . . .

My feeling about it is, MP11 may be the best action, but the Yamaha wooden key hammer action (CP4, P515, CP88) is at least 90% as good at 50-60% of the overall weight. If you're gigging, that's kind of an easy choice. And of course there's a subjective element, so someone like Dave Ferris might actually prefer the Yamaha over the Kawai.

One thing I liked about the CP73 action was that the action itself is extremely quiet. I'm sitting in front of my Seven right now trying to play through headphones while the wife and kids are sleeping, and the clunking of keys is loud enough that I have to worry about waking them up. But this is the only time I can practice! That's my situation, but not everyone has that sort of problem.


Crumar Seven, Crumar Mojo 61, Korg Vox Continental, Yamaha CP73.

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: lvercaut] #2983402 04/04/19 03:02 AM
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Well the french demo isn't bad, but from it (my French isn't perfect but I can read the paper) and the language I conclude that the sound used would bore soon. Like I said, it may be the sound engine/chips used have the potential to be great, but used like this: not so much.

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Theo Verelst] #2983406 04/04/19 06:00 AM
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Itís my understanding the Vel Sens Depth & Offset are not part of the CP4 SCM. Are these not on the new models? For me, theyíre fundamental on CP4.

BTW, SCM for CP4ís APís are preamp sims.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: dsetto] #2983496 04/04/19 03:24 PM
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Got my CP73 unboxed and setup; just a few first-impressions...

Build is actually more robust than I was expecting. Thicker than what I thought it would be; more substantial. Knobs are all solid, and have that inertial liquid-feel. Even the unusual toggle switches and rockers feel very sturdy.

The action is also a little heavier and more substantial than what I expected, and maybe had hoped for, but this is my first DP in 30 years that doesn't have a Fatar keybed -- sorry I can't provide any comparison to existing Motif/Montage/MODX actions. It's fairly fast, fairly quiet, and has a comfortable travel-depth and bottom-out. Not as fast and light as a good Rhodes or Wurli. I would probably not choose the CP73 if the gig calls for EPs all night long. But I would definitely choose it for a big band jazz gig for mostly AP, and occasional EP.

Sound-wise, I actually like that there are just two or three very different choices in each piano category, instead of a dozen or more like on my Kurz -- I admit, fine nuances are usually lost on me. I will probably never use the "Sub" category sounds, though it will be nice to have a string pad or solo synth on hand without having to bring a separate board for "that one tune". I like the sound set here on the CP73 for the same reasons that I like the Vox Continental -- just a few choices, but all good ones. The exception, as is always decried here, are the Yamaha tonewheel/rotary voices -- still collectively awful IMHO.

Control surface is, actually, pretty cool and fun. The marketing verbiage makes much of the CP73's "one-to-one" user-interface, which is perhaps only a big deal compared to Yamaha's (and Kurzweil's, to be fair) own past offerings that require scuba gear to navigate fully. I've owned three Nord Electros and three Nord Stages that were also quite "knobby" one-to-one UIs, but I always felt they were hard to navigate because all the controls looked identical -- you had to read the labels too much. It's hard to explain, but I like the CP73's controls precisely because they are not all the same: you've got big knobs, small knobs, buttons, toggles, rockers; and they're implemented consistently and, to my mind, logically. I don't have to read the labels; instead, I can key off the shape or kind of control, and that appeals to me, viscerally.

For gig use, the CP73 seems ideal, as I said above, for my big band gigs, and for theater and general vocal rehearsals; this is the bulk of what I do. Due to its limited sound palette, it would not be my choice for a cover band, or for a complex musical theater show -- that's the Forte's (ahem) forte. Nor for a night of Herbie-esque fusion or synth work. But I would totally take it to a country/blues gig (with a clonewheel), or to accompany a vocalist for an evening of jazz standards.

I have a week of dress rehearsals coming up where I will have opportunity to play the CP73 for several hours every night -- for me, that's the only way I can assess whether I really like the board or not. Almost anything new feels fine for a few minutes; it's only after hours of playing that I can say if the keybed is helping or hurting, inviting or repelling, relaxing or tiring. More to come on that.

I love my Forte 7 and its Fatar TP40L keybed, but it's heavy, and semi-permanently installed at church; it's a chore to rip it out of its rigging to take on a gig. I had hoped that the VC73 could fill that role for me, but as much as I like that board for EP/organ/synth, it doesn't satisfy me for piano playing. I don't want an 88-key board, so I've been watching for new DPs in my preferred, six-octave format:

Nord Stage 76s; pricey, too many features
Nord Electro HPs; don't like the TP100 keybed
Dexibell Vivo S3 Pro; TP100 keybed
Crumar Seven; TP100 keybed
Kurzweil Artis7; don't like the TP8 keybed, either
Yamaha P-121; haven't played one
Korg SV-1 73; haven't played one (does it have good APs?)
Korg GrandStage 73; haven't played one

Honestly, I really wanted to love the Seven because Guido and Crumar are doing great things, and I really want to support their work. But I just do not connect with that TP100 for playing APs, and I have to connect with the APs. Did I leave any obvious contenders off the list?

Day one, the CP73 checks all of my feature boxes (as did the VC73) -- I just need to be able to say that I love playing APs on it, and I'll find that out in the next two weeks.



Kurzweil Forte 7, Korg Vox Continental, Korg SV-1 73, Barbetta Sona 31 Pro-Combo
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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Brad Kaenel] #2983499 04/04/19 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel


The action is also a little heavier and more substantial than what I expected, and maybe had hoped for, but this is my first DP in 30 years that doesn't have a Fatar keybed -- sorry I can't provide any comparison to existing Motif/Montage/MODX actions. It's fairly fast, fairly quiet, and has a comfortable travel-depth and bottom-out. Not as fast and light as a good Rhodes or Wurli. I would probably not choose the CP73 if the gig calls for EPs all night long. But I would definitely choose it for a big band jazz gig for mostly AP, and occasional EP.



Interesting, Brad, because I had sort of the opposite impression based on 20 minutes of playing. I thought the action was light and well-suited to EPs, but a bit too much on the light side for serious piano work. And the pivot point felt non-optimal for piano as compared to the CP88. The difference in our perspective might be because my fingers are on a TP100 action most of the time, which is decidedly a heavy action.

We can agree that the CP Hammond patches suck.

I would also agree that it's very easy to write off (or write on) a keyboard based on a brief audition, when what you really need is a week or two of intensive playing to know if it will work.


Crumar Seven, Crumar Mojo 61, Korg Vox Continental, Yamaha CP73.

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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Brad Kaenel] #2983502 04/04/19 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
I would probably not choose the CP73 if the gig calls for EPs all night long. But I would definitely choose it for a big band jazz gig for mostly AP, and occasional EP.

Funny that you say the CP73 action feels good for AP, so-so for EP, and Adan posted the reverse. You guys are no help! ;-)

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
The marketing verbiage makes much of the CP73's "one-to-one" user-interface, which is perhaps only a big deal compared to Yamaha's (and Kurzweil's, to be fair) own past offerings that require scuba gear to navigate fully. I've owned three Nord Electros and three Nord Stages that were also quite "knobby" one-to-one UIs

Yes, you've enjoyed one-to-one knobiness before as Nords are famous for, but that is still the exception rather than the rule, and yes, not something we have generally seen from Yamaha or Kurzweil. Roland has some of that in the VR series, but not in the RD, FP, DS, or FA lines. Korg goes that way with the SV1, Grandstage Vox, but not Kross, Krome, Kronos.

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
I've owned three Nord Electros and three Nord Stages that were also quite "knobby" one-to-one UIs, but I always felt they were hard to navigate because all the controls looked identical -- you had to read the labels too much. It's hard to explain, but I like the CP73's controls precisely because they are not all the same: you've got big knobs, small knobs, buttons, toggles, rockers; and they're implemented consistently and, to my mind, logically. I don't have to read the labels; instead, I can key off the shape or kind of control, and that appeals to me, viscerally.

Yes, while Nord benefits from some differentiation via logical groupings and some size differences, I agree, more differentiation as on the CP is better. It's something I kind of mentioned in preferring the CP aesthetic to the structurally/operationally similar Kawai MP11SE.

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
I love my Forte 7 and its Fatar TP40L keybed, but it's heavy, and semi-permanently installed at church; it's a chore to rip it out of its rigging to take on a gig. I had hoped that the VC73 could fill that role for me, but as much as I like that board for EP/organ/synth, it doesn't satisfy me for piano playing. I don't want an 88-key board, so I've been watching for new DPs in my preferred, six-octave format:

Nord Stage 76s; pricey, too many features
Nord Electro HPs; don't like the TP100 keybed
Dexibell Vivo S3 Pro; TP100 keybed
Crumar Seven; TP100 keybed
Kurzweil Artis7; don't like the TP8 keybed, either
Yamaha P-121; haven't played one
Korg SV-1 73; haven't played one (does it have good APs?)
Korg GrandStage 73; haven't played one

Honestly, I really wanted to love the Seven because Guido and Crumar are doing great things, and I really want to support their work. But I just do not connect with that TP100 for playing APs, and I have to connect with the APs. Did I leave any obvious contenders off the list?

A used Stage 2 76 (NOT a Stage 2EX)... might work nicely for you. Maybe even the earlier models, too. I know, you don't need everything it has, but it may have the sounds, feel, and travel weight you want, which is going to be a hard combination to find, you may have to also get things you don't care about. I suspect that and Grandstage might be your best bets.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: dsetto] #2983503 04/04/19 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: dsetto
Itís my understanding the Vel Sens Depth & Offset are not part of the CP4 SCM. Are these not on the new models? For me, theyíre fundamental on CP4.

My sentiments exactly.

I searched for these in the owner's manuals on the new models, couldn't find them.

I don't know why they would be part of or limited to SCM. Seems like they're an essential element of how the keyboard translates player input into MIDI output values.


Mike
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott] #2983511 04/04/19 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
I would probably not choose the CP73 if the gig calls for EPs all night long. But I would definitely choose it for a big band jazz gig for mostly AP, and occasional EP.

Originally Posted By: Adan
I had sort of the opposite impression based on 20 minutes of playing. I thought the action was light and well-suited to EPs, but a bit too much on the light side for serious piano work.


Funny that you say the CP73 action feels good for AP, so-so for EP, and Adan posted the reverse. You guys are no help! ;-)



Ha! It's all in our personal preferences, isn't it. I just happen to prefer lighter weighted actions across the board (pun intended), both on APs and EPs, real or digital. And I like my EPs lighter than my APs, so I'm never going to be completely satisfied playing both on a single board. That's why I'm happier playing EPs on the VC73, and APs on the CP73 (and the Forte, for the same reason). Adan probably skews the other way, and I've certainly never done any "serious piano work" myself. blush

I've played Rhodes all my life, and although the action is often maligned, when setup right it's lightning fast and effortless to play because there's very little mass in the keybed to get moving. I also like the lighter, faster grand piano actions with the "helper" springs. Maybe I just have wimpy finger muscles.

Watch, I'll flip-flop after playing the CP every day for awhile; place your bets. laugh


Kurzweil Forte 7, Korg Vox Continental, Korg SV-1 73, Barbetta Sona 31 Pro-Combo
Fender Rhodes '73 Mark I Stage



Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Brad Kaenel] #2983523 04/04/19 06:53 PM
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Thanks Brad, I appreciate your impressions.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: jimkost2002] #2984771 04/12/19 02:53 AM
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I played the CP88 for about an hour today at GC. I can definitely see myself owning one. I don't particularly like the toggle on/off switches for the three sound sources and the knobs for instrument selection, but they're not dealbreakers. Otherwise, it's very Nord-like and something I'd love to have and play.

I'm thinking about how to replace the MODX8, though. As a bottom-tier board it's not quite right for me. I played the MODX7 too, and as a top-tier board it's perfect for 90% of my gigs. The action is very short, but consistent and snappy. Definitely a class up from the Krome.

But I still yearn for aftertouch, so maybe a used Motif XF7, or go the whole hog and just get the Montage 7. Don't need it for the regular gigs, but I miss it every time I do a synth solo.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: zephonic] #2984776 04/12/19 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
I played the CP88 for about an hour today at GC. I can definitely see myself owning one. I don't particularly like the toggle on/off switches for the three sound sources and the knobs for instrument selection, but they're not dealbreakers. Otherwise, it's very Nord-like and something I'd love to have and play.

I'm thinking about how to replace the MODX8, though. As a bottom-tier board it's not quite right for me. I played the MODX7 too, and as a top-tier board it's perfect for 90% of my gigs. The action is very short, but consistent and snappy. Definitely a class up from the Krome.

But I still yearn for aftertouch, so maybe a used Motif XF7, or go the whole hog and just get the Montage 7. Don't need it for the regular gigs, but I miss it every time I do a synth solo.


Go for the gusto and get the Montage7, zephonic.
Because of the seamless sound switching and improved interface.
If you know the MOTIF architecture, itíll be a snap.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: zephonic] #2984778 04/12/19 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
I'm thinking about how to replace the MODX8, though. As a bottom-tier board it's not quite right for me.

Why? The action? Paricular sounds? Size/depth? Interface/egonomics?

Originally Posted By: zephonic
I played the MODX7 too, and as a top-tier board it's perfect for 90% of my gigs. The action is very short, but consistent and snappy. Definitely a class up from the Krome.

But I still yearn for aftertouch, so maybe a used Motif XF7, or go the whole hog and just get the Montage 7.

I assume you're talking about XF7/Montage 7 for top tier. There aren't too many greater-than-61 non-hammer actions wih aftertouch. Off-hand, in current models, I think the only other choices would be Nord Stage 3 and Numa Compact 2/2X. (Maybe some arrangers?) But obviously those two don't have the versatility of an XF/Montage if that's what you're looking for to put over a CP.

If you'd consider relegating your aftertouch to your 88, the Kurzweil PC4 could be a possibility, opening up your top tier to the MODX7 or other non-AT board, but then trading off the action and Nord-like operaton of the CP88. There are other 88s with AT, but weight starts to get up there. (If you don't need a full 88 on your hammer action, there are also some 7x options.)


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott] #2984818 04/12/19 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: jimkost2002

Go for the gusto and get the Montage7, zephonic.
Because of the seamless sound switching and improved interface.


Iíd love to have a Montage 7, but itís $2K more than a MODX7, just for the aftertouch. Want it, not sure I should.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

Why? The action? Particular sounds? Size/depth? Interface/egonomics?


I've mentioned it all before in the MODX thread, but the 8 is just not designed as a bottom-tier board. The second-tier board partially obscures the display, which means I have to adjust my body position to see the upper live sets. After 6 months, grabbing the main volume knob still requires a conscious effort.
It's a pity, because I love the sound and ease of use. So I'm thinking a MODX7 or Montage 7 on the top-tier, as I don't want to lose all the good stuff.

Aftertouch is definitely a semi-weighted only thing for me. I just love it for proper synth stuff, modulation or LFO, you know, or vibrato for woodwind emulations. In general, I prefer semi-weighted for everything except piano and Rhodes.

The CP has most of what I loved about the Nord Piano, and adds versatility.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: zephonic] #2984826 04/12/19 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
[Iíd love to have a Montage 7, but itís $2K more than a MODX7, just for the aftertouch. Want it, not sure I should.

At least the MODX supports a second CC pedal, making it easier to assign your "aftertouch" functions to a pedal. It doesn't feel as organic, but at least it doesn't tie up your other hand like a mod wheel does. I think you should be able to use a continuous damper pedal instead of an expression pedal, if you want it to "bounce back" instead of having to manually dial the effect back out, making it feel maybe a bit more aftertouch-like.

Originally Posted By: zephonic
I've mentioned it all before in the MODX thread, but the 8 is just not designed as a bottom-tier board. The second-tier board partially obscures the display, which means I have to adjust my body position to see the upper live sets.

The CP88 does look like it has less panel depth that needs to be kept accessible/visible.

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Aftertouch is definitely a semi-weighted only thing for me.

That certainly limits your choices of 7x key boards to put over the CP88. Maybe something older is worth considering? Korg PA3x LE could be a possibility, or the older Korg TR.

Originally Posted By: zephonic
In general, I prefer semi-weighted for everything except piano and Rhodes.

I prefer hammers for piano/rhodes, SW for organ... but I find that almost everything else, I can do fine on either. And since organ doesn't use AT, that opens up the possibility of using AT on a hammer action for me. I haven't had a hammer action board with AT, but I'm looking at that PC4...


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Brad Kaenel] #2984829 04/12/19 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel

Day one, the CP73 checks all of my feature boxes (as did the VC73) -- I just need to be able to say that I love playing APs on it


Well, I didn't love it; decided to send it back. I really, really like the form factor, the weight, and the control surface. But the keybed was just not satisfying for me. Tired me out, and made my fingers hurt after several hours -- guess I'm just too biased towards the TP40.

I have a line on a used Stage 2 HA76, but I would still like to try the RH3 on an SV-1, just to say I did.

My final thought on the CP73 is that it bothers me that all the sounds in the Sub category are, IMHO, unremarkable, and many are just eeewwww -- I would never use them. Hard for me to drop $2K on a new instrument that I know going in is 1/3 wasted. Maybe if Yamaha seriously upgrades the sound set in a year, it will help me overcome my keybed objections. frown


Kurzweil Forte 7, Korg Vox Continental, Korg SV-1 73, Barbetta Sona 31 Pro-Combo
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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott] #2984831 04/12/19 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
A used Stage 2 76 (NOT a Stage 2EX)... might work nicely for you...I suspect that and Grandstage might be your best bets.


Thanks, Scott! There are two used Stage 2 HA76's on CL, near me; trying to get an audition time with them. thu

Not much luck finding a Korg GS or SV-1 in the big box music stores around me; may have to Amazon Prime one if I want to try out the RH3 keybed...


Kurzweil Forte 7, Korg Vox Continental, Korg SV-1 73, Barbetta Sona 31 Pro-Combo
Fender Rhodes '73 Mark I Stage



Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Brad Kaenel] #2984832 04/12/19 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
Not much luck finding a Korg GS or SV-1

I really enjoy playing the SV1, but if AP sound quality is a priority for you, it's definitely not first tier in that department. In fact, when I use it live, for piano, rather than one of its official grand piano sounds, I often use its Korg SG-1D sound. But for EPs, SV1 is wonderful.

I haven't had the opportunity to play a Grandstage yet. The piano/EP sounds should be much like the Vox, minus the tube.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott] #2984844 04/12/19 06:39 PM
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YMMV.

I interviewed Adam Holzman (Steven Wilson Band, Miles, others) a couple years ago when he was in Chicago. He loved the SV1 because it "was the only piano that didnt get crunchy loud."

He is absolutely correct. I listened to it that entire show, and after having used one in months of rehearsals, I would agree.

Sound quality of the piano doesn't suck.


Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Tonysounds] #2984848 04/12/19 07:52 PM
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I agree, the SV1 piano does not suck. It's certainly usable. (Heck, people are still getting mileage out of the Kurzweil Triple Strike!) But I think advances since its 2009 debut make it not first-rate by today's standards. I'd probably take the better Kawais, Nords, Kurzweils, or Yamahas over it for piano. I haven't tried all of these in gig contexts, though, and you make an interesting point there about how that could alter what you think about them. But there is a lot of subjectivity to it, too. Some people swear by Roland SuperNatural, I'd probably prefer the SV1. ;-)


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Brad Kaenel] #2984853 04/12/19 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
A used Stage 2 76 (NOT a Stage 2EX)... might work nicely for you...I suspect that and Grandstage might be your best bets.


Thanks, Scott! There are two used Stage 2 HA76's on CL, near me; trying to get an audition time with them. thu

Not much luck finding a Korg GS or SV-1 in the big box music stores around me; may have to Amazon Prime one if I want to try out the RH3 keybed...


I also think you should try Korg Grandstage. Same keybed as the Kronos, more AP variety, best in class modelled Rhodes, wheels instead of a joystick, shorter, lighter and boots in 35 seconds. I really enjoy mine.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Brad Kaenel] #2984855 04/12/19 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel

Day one, the CP73 checks all of my feature boxes (as did the VC73) -- I just need to be able to say that I love playing APs on it


Well, I didn't love it; decided to send it back. I really, really like the form factor, the weight, and the control surface. But the keybed was just not satisfying for me. Tired me out, and made my fingers hurt after several hours -- guess I'm just too biased towards the TP40.


That's why as long as there is a return policy, manufacturers should be upfront on what actions they use, and not overhype it.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Tonysounds] #2984870 04/12/19 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tonysounds
Sound quality of the piano doesn't suck.


I'm not picky about the AP sound, I just want to feel good when I play it. Ordered an SV-1 73 from A-Z Prime to give it a try; easy return if I don't like it. thu


Kurzweil Forte 7, Korg Vox Continental, Korg SV-1 73, Barbetta Sona 31 Pro-Combo
Fender Rhodes '73 Mark I Stage



Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Brad Kaenel] #2984907 04/13/19 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
Ordered an SV-1 73 from A-Z Prime to give it a try

Don't forget to check out the two free downloadable optional sound packs from Korg's web site.


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Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: AnotherScott] #2984940 04/13/19 02:11 PM
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I got to play the CP88 this week at the San Jose GC through some Yamaha 8" studio monitors of some kind.

The CFX sample was quite nice - they did a great job with it. It felt great on the keyboard too.

The action seemed "tall" to me compared to my Kawai RX-7 grand in the studio. The keys travel further, or felt like they did. The triple sensor mechanism seems to work very well. I was able to consistently play extremely softly - which is usually a problem on digitals. So, I suspect the MIDI stream can play velocity 30 and under controllably. It felt like I could play it at the very edge of silence - truly impressive. The action was definitely better than the Nord Stage3 88 they had - which had the typical Fatar "meh" feel - not great, not bad, just workably beige. I'd get used to the extra height in the action, and the control is quite good. Expressive control is a high point of the action.

The e-pianos all seemed flat and lifeless to me. My comparison point would be the 'Canterbury Rhodes" sample and Keyscape, both of which I can get lost in. I found the CP-88 Rhodes and Wurly uninspiring, by comparison. I'd bring a laptop instead of use them. Maybe it was a monitoring thing - I have no experience with the Yamaha monitors that were there and normally listen on much better amplification.

The pads were very bland and generic. I'd bring my OB-6 rather than listen to them. They would do in a pinch, but sound like dated ROMpler sounds to me - flat and one-dimensional. I have pretty nice hardware synths, so it isn't a fair comparison. But, I just wouldn't use this section. Omnisphere or hardware would be my choice instead.

So, my takeaway was that I'd only use the main CFX sample. But the action is quite nice. I'll look forward to checking out the new Nord Grand Stage and see what that is about.

The UI is quick and efficient. Yamaha did a nice job with the board.

If they make it so that it is a lot like the Nords where I can replace the samples I won't use, or put in my own, I could be very interested. As it stands, I would have to justify it as the price of getting a great 88 weighted action that sends out quality MIDI to drive a Gig Performer rig.

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread [Re: Nathanael_I] #2984950 04/13/19 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nathanael_I
The e-pianos all seemed flat and lifeless to me.

Disappointing, but not surprising. I don't think I've ever heard a stock Motif/Montage EP that I really liked.


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