Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Chord help #2968292
01/11/19 05:31 AM
01/11/19 05:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 171
G
Groove58 Offline OP
Senior Member
Groove58  Offline OP
Senior Member
G

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 171
This arrangement of Ray Charles' "I Don't Need No Doctor" by John Scofield with John Mayer is essentially a 12-bar blues with a couple of jazzy twists.



(There are also several live versions on YouTube.)

I'm hearing the chords like this, but I'm not sure about a couple, particularly the C69 in bar 6, which seems to have something else in it ... can those of you with sharper ears identify it more accurately?

| E / G A | % | % | % |
| C#m7b5 / D11 / | C69 / A11 B11 | E / G A | % |
| B11 / / / | A11 / G11 A11 | E / G A | % |

KC Island
Re: Chord help [Re: Groove58] #2968322
01/11/19 12:10 PM
01/11/19 12:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 759
Rockaway,NJ,UNITED STATES
lightbg Offline
Gold Member
lightbg  Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 759
Rockaway,NJ,UNITED STATES
I'm hearing a Gmj9 over the 3rd with a really sparse voicing.
G
D
A
(over)
B

My best guess.

Jake


1967 B-3 w/(2) 122's, Nord C1w/Leslie 2101 top, Nord PedalKeys 27, Nord Electro 4D, QSC K12.2, Yamaha reface YC+CS+CP

"It needs a Hammond"
Re: Chord help [Re: lightbg] #2968346
01/11/19 02:39 PM
01/11/19 02:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 316
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
BernMeister Offline
Senior Member
BernMeister  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 316
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Very cool voicings smile

The C6/9 has an added #11. Although this first time, it sounds like he added a b9 as well, perhaps in error (it may just be a harmonic). Sounds great just the same. The following times it's played in the song as a Cadd9#4, and it's not necessarily full on. The #4 is toggled for effect. He toggles his voicings similarly for the D11 (bringing in the F natural to make it minor).

Re: Chord help [Re: BernMeister] #2968444
01/12/19 03:41 AM
01/12/19 03:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 171
G
Groove58 Offline OP
Senior Member
Groove58  Offline OP
Senior Member
G

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 171
Thanks! like

(What voicing are you hearing for the C#m7b5, D11, C69#11 progression?)

Re: Chord help [Re: Groove58] #2968457
01/12/19 12:28 PM
01/12/19 12:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,204
NYC area
R
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Reezekeys  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
R

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,204
NYC area
Jake for the win. If this was a test in theory class I would call it a "G sus2 / B", or maybe a "G add9 / B." To me, "G maj9/ B" implies a 7th, which is not in the sound.

As a piano player, if I was reading a chord chart and saw "G sus2 / B", I might play the voicing as in the 2nd example below – nice but not the same sound that the guitar gets on the track.


Re: Chord help [Re: Groove58] #2968463
01/12/19 12:54 PM
01/12/19 12:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,204
NYC area
R
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Reezekeys  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
R

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,204
NYC area
Originally Posted By: Groove58
Thanks! like

(What voicing are you hearing for the C#m7b5, D11, C69#11 progression?)

First, it's not a C69#11 chord – it's what Jake said, and I said in my post above: a G add9 / B. A #11 in a C chord would be an F# – there is no F# in that chord. Also, the bass note of the chord is a B; how could that make it a C6/9?

These are the voicings I'm hearing:
(BTW I decided to call the 3rd chord "G add 9 / B" rather than a G sus2 / B as the latter designation, to me, implies a specific way to voice the chord which is not the way it's voiced by John. I think both designations are technically correct though).


Re: Chord help [Re: Reezekeys] #2968469
01/12/19 01:28 PM
01/12/19 01:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 759
Rockaway,NJ,UNITED STATES
lightbg Offline
Gold Member
lightbg  Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 759
Rockaway,NJ,UNITED STATES
Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
Jake for the win. If this was a test in theory class I would call it a "G sus2 / B", or maybe a "G add9 / B." To me, "G maj9/ B" implies a 7th, which is not in the sound.

As a piano player, if I was reading a chord chart and saw "G sus2 / B", I might play the voicing as in the 2nd example below – nice but not the same sound that the guitar gets on the track.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I put the track through my studio monitors and couldn’t hear a C in the bass....then I figured my tired ears weren’t getting it.... glad to know they still work. w00tm

Jake



1967 B-3 w/(2) 122's, Nord C1w/Leslie 2101 top, Nord PedalKeys 27, Nord Electro 4D, QSC K12.2, Yamaha reface YC+CS+CP

"It needs a Hammond"
Re: Chord help [Re: lightbg] #2968487
01/12/19 03:38 PM
01/12/19 03:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,271
Las Vegas,NV,UNITED STATES
linwood Offline
MPN Advisory Board
linwood  Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,271
Las Vegas,NV,UNITED STATES
Bern laid it out. I think of it as a D/C (no 3 in the C), but John is playing that G up the oct the first time around and you get that C F# A D G sound... other times you get that D/C or C F#G D ( with or without the A) sound. mix and match. lol

Re: Chord help [Re: linwood] #2968520
01/12/19 06:01 PM
01/12/19 06:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,204
NYC area
R
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Reezekeys  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
R

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,204
NYC area
Did I download this track from the Bizarro World youtube? Where is there an F# in that chord? How can you call a chord D/C when the bass note is a B? I missed that theory class!

Re: Chord help [Re: Reezekeys] #2968523
01/12/19 06:16 PM
01/12/19 06:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,271
Las Vegas,NV,UNITED STATES
linwood Offline
MPN Advisory Board
linwood  Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,271
Las Vegas,NV,UNITED STATES
You must have. lol

Re: Chord help [Re: linwood] #2968531
01/12/19 06:34 PM
01/12/19 06:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,271
Las Vegas,NV,UNITED STATES
linwood Offline
MPN Advisory Board
linwood  Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,271
Las Vegas,NV,UNITED STATES
Found this...it's easier to hear on this youtube


Re: Chord help [Re: Reezekeys] #2968532
01/12/19 06:35 PM
01/12/19 06:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 316
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
BernMeister Offline
Senior Member
BernMeister  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 316
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
Did I download this track from the Bizarro World youtube? Where is there an F# in that chord? How can you call a chord D/C when the bass note is a B? I missed that theory class!

With much respect, sir, there is indeed an F# in that chord. Try running the audio out of phase...it might come out at you more clearly.

As for the bass...it's easy to fall into the trap of assuming it's a simple /B chord. It's clearly a C bass.

The beauty of clusters and upper extensions...

Re: Chord help [Re: BernMeister] #2968570
01/12/19 11:12 PM
01/12/19 11:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,204
NYC area
R
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Reezekeys  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
R

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,204
NYC area
Ahhh, I should have known I'd get into trouble with this. BernMeister you are correct, it's a C in the bass on that chord. In my pathetic defense – I was listening to the first time thru the form on the u-tube posted at the top of this thread. It kinda sounded to me like the bass player was sliding between a B and C, and I assumed it was a B. The second u-tube is MUCH clearer wrt the bass. And the voicing I came up with, with the B in the bass, is a very common one for Sco to play – I know this from personal experience!

As to the chord in question – in the first (album version) track, I stand by my earlier transcription of the upper notes (A, D, G) – I really have a hard time hearing an F# (at least in that first instance). If it's there, I guess I'm losing my touch (or ear!). Of course, now that I know the bass is playing a C, I think that means you could call this a C 6/9 without getting an X from the teacher!

On the live video Linwood posted, you don't hear that A at the top of the voicing – it most definitely is an F#! This will give you an idea of how much free time I have these days: I worked up a quick project with the two versions of these chords alternating and slowed down:

https://soundcloud.com/user-626321137/scochord/s-Gr766

So yea, that could sure be called a D/C. I do have a hard time hearing the A (5th) ,and because I think I hear a G in there, you might also call this chord a G maj7 (omit 3) / C.


Re: Chord help [Re: Reezekeys] #2968577
01/12/19 11:54 PM
01/12/19 11:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,271
Las Vegas,NV,UNITED STATES
linwood Offline
MPN Advisory Board
linwood  Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,271
Las Vegas,NV,UNITED STATES
It's a Christopher Cross C.

Re: Chord help [Re: linwood] #2968581
01/13/19 12:31 AM
01/13/19 12:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,204
NYC area
R
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Reezekeys  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
R

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,204
NYC area
I knew there was a technical explanation for it! smile

Re: Chord help [Re: Reezekeys] #2968583
01/13/19 12:58 AM
01/13/19 12:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,271
Las Vegas,NV,UNITED STATES
linwood Offline
MPN Advisory Board
linwood  Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,271
Las Vegas,NV,UNITED STATES
We could always go Beato and call it a Clyd (add9)but few would be hip. lol

Re: Chord help [Re: linwood] #2968592
01/13/19 03:40 AM
01/13/19 03:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 171
G
Groove58 Offline OP
Senior Member
Groove58  Offline OP
Senior Member
G

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 171
I've since found a few other transcriptions online that agree on this progression as C#m7b5, D11, C69 (most including the #11), so I've gone with that for now.

I'm voicing it like this, to keep the G sounding on top and to keep it within my reach.

C#m7b5: C# ... B C# E G
D11: D ... A C E G (or D ... C D E G)
C69#11: C ... A D F# G (or Cmaj9: C ... A B D E G also sounds OK)


Re: Chord help [Re: Groove58] #2968650
01/13/19 02:54 PM
01/13/19 02:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,204
NYC area
R
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Reezekeys  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
R

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,204
NYC area
IMO transcribing is great for developing your ear, but figuring out what to call the chords has little relevance if you're just looking to play the song. With this Ray Charles tune, it's possible Sco played the voicing differently each time (they are sure different between the two u-tubes). I think what you came up with is totally cool for the purpose, whether it's exactly what was played or not.

This thread made me think of why I transcribe. Some tunes, I want to test my skills by trying to nail exactly what was played; I was challenging myself. Or, maybe I wanted to play the tune and felt that without the original voicings, it would lose the qualities that attracted me to the song in the first place. The best example of this is an Eliane Elias tune I transcribed a few years ago. It took me a week to do this song, but the block chords with their clustery voicings (starting at the very top of the song) knocked me out and I had to figure them out:



I had absolutely no interest in choosing what to call the chords – I only wanted to play the song!

Most tunes I need to learn, I write out the top line and come up with a chord symbol – what we all know as a lead sheet. That wouldn't work with this tune. With the Ray Charles song though, imo you could probably get away with doing it like that – especially since it's a vocal song and you're not responsible for the melody.

Eliane's piano intro to "Just For You." (Scan of a chart done with the Atari ST program "Copyist", printed on a 9-pin dot-matrix printer! I did say a "few" years ago, lol).


Moderated by  Dave Bryce, Stephen Fortner 

 
   
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1