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#2967581 - 01/07/19 06:34 PM I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris...
Sundown Offline
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Rick Wakeman was a *huge* influence on my early thinking. I started around 1987 as a teenager, and when ABWH landed, I got into the Yes catalog. I then got into his solo stuff.

But today, it’s really Chris Squire that I admire musically. I love “Fish out of Water”, and I absolutely love the way he made bass a melodic instrument. So much of the Yes sound is Chris’s voice and writing influence.

I know it’s blasphemy, but I’m not much of a Rick fan anymore (musically). He’s a wonderful human being, but I can’t get into his modern playing. I thought his “Return to the Center of the Earth” album was decent (with Patrick Stewart as narrator), but I don’t like his choice of sounds on stage, and I wish he would retire the “Six Wives” and “King Arthur” material in his Yes/ARW solo set. He’s capable of so much more.

If you’re not familiar with “Fish out of Water”, check it out. Pat Moraz plays on a few tracks, and Andrew Jackman plays piano on several songs.
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#2967585 - 01/07/19 06:51 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Sundown]
AnotherScott Offline
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"Fish Out of Water" is one of my three favorite "Yes" albums.
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#2967586 - 01/07/19 07:01 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: AnotherScott]
Sundown Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
"Fish Out of Water" is one of my three favorite "Yes" albums.


Chris did another pseudo-solo venture with Billy Sherwood called Conspiracy. There are one or two tracks on it that I really like (“Days of Wonder” and “Violet Purple Rose”). It also includes some redos of material from Union.

But it’s not “Fish out of Water”... I think the Andrew Pryce Jackman collaboration was the key to the album, and his death pre-dated Chris’s (2003).
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#2967587 - 01/07/19 07:06 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Sundown]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sundown
So much of the Yes sound is Chris’s voice and writing influence.


IMO, Chris Squire was much more influntial to the sound of Yes than any of the keyboard players. I have seen Yes many times live, either with Patrick Moraz, Rick Wakeman, or Geoff Downes on keyboards. I have refused to see Yes since Chris Squire passed away. RIP
As always, YMMV. Just my dos centavos.
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#2967591 - 01/07/19 07:14 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: davedoerfler]
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They could sing really well for a British proggy outfit.
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#2967592 - 01/07/19 07:15 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: davedoerfler]
Sundown Offline
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Originally Posted By: davedoerfler


IMO, Chris Squire was much more influntial to the sound of Yes than any of the keyboard players.


One of my favorite players in the band was actually Igor Khoroshev. I liked his parts on “The Ladder”, and he did a great job live as well.

Rick’s not easy to reign-in (if you’re a producer), and I always thought of a Igor as a Rick-like player with more restraint.


Edited by Sundown (01/07/19 07:15 PM)
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#2967593 - 01/07/19 07:15 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: CEB]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: CEB
They could sing really well for a British proggy outfit.


True, Ed. Chris was an excellent backup singer aside from being a monster on bass guitar.
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#2967594 - 01/07/19 07:16 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: CEB]
Sundown Offline
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Originally Posted By: CEB
They could sing really well for a British proggy outfit.


Except for Steve Howe... Please don’t ask Steve to sing.

The classic harmonies are carried by Chris and Jon.
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#2967623 - 01/07/19 11:28 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Sundown]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Chris sang in choir earlier on, so he developed a great sense of pitch, harmony, and counterpoint, which also carried over to his bass playing.

He was the main reason I picked up bass guitar; even more so than McCartney, Mike Rutherford, Greg Lake, John Wetton, Stanley Clarke, and every bassist who ever played in Jethro Tull.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (01/08/19 01:43 PM)
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#2967659 - 01/08/19 05:47 AM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Mark Schmieder]
jimkost2002 Offline
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“Fish Out of Water” stands the test of time and is head and shoulders above Yes albums post 1977 excepting “Drama” and “The Ladder”

Most especially so as it’s the final statement from the Bruford/Squire rhythm section.

The current cover band with Steve Howe calling themselves “Yes” really needs to bow out gracefully now that Chris has left this mortal coil and cede the Yes legacy to AWR/Yes.(Especially considering Alan White’s medical issues)

Chris took John Entwistle’s concept and really made it his own. For all the talk of “No Jon, no Yes” it is more correctly “No Chris and Jon, no Yes”


Edited by jimkost2002 (01/08/19 05:49 AM)
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#2967667 - 01/08/19 06:26 AM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Sundown]
SteveCoscia Offline
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Chris Squire tells the funniest story about his first Jimi Hendrix meeting. Terrific story teller.



Edited by SteveCoscia (01/08/19 06:27 AM)
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#2967691 - 01/08/19 08:29 AM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: SteveCoscia]
Piktor Offline
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I came came for Rick; I stayed for "the RIC." whistle

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#2967699 - 01/08/19 09:00 AM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: jimkost2002]
Sundown Offline
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Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
“Fish Out of Water” stands the test of time and is head and shoulders above Yes albums post 1977 excepting “Drama” and “The Ladder”

Most especially so as it’s the final statement from the Bruford/Squire rhythm section.


I find it funny that given the history between Bill and Chris, Chris had Bill play on his solo album. Those two were oil and water.

Also glad to see that you’re a “Ladder” fan. “Homeworld” and “New Language” stand out.

“Drama” was a good album as well. Alan/Chris/Steve really locked together, and I thought Geoff Downes did a good job. Trevor Horn had big shoes to fill, but I think the material is really good (“Into the Lens” being my favorite, followed by “Does it Really Happen?” and “Machine Messiah”).

Great stuff...
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#2967701 - 01/08/19 09:07 AM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Mark Schmieder]
JerryA Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Chris sang in choir earlier on, so he developed a great sense of pitch, harmony, and counterpoint, which also carried over to his bass playing.


Yeah really. Great choral sensibility in Chris' writing, which we often overlooked because of Jon's stellar voice. At least I did.

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#2967846 - 01/08/19 09:10 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: JerryA]
Shamanczarek Offline
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Along with being immensely talented Squire, in his prime, was one of the best looking bass players. Classic high cheek bones and great wardrobe choices.

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#2967862 - 01/09/19 01:10 AM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Shamanczarek]
GRollins Offline
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I started playing bass ca. 1972 or so, right around the same time I was discovering Yes. Chris Squire rapidly took his place among my heros/influences, along with Geezer Butler and Mel Schacher--all non-trivial bass players.

Fragile and Close To The Edge pretty much upended my world. Then came Yessongs to cap things off and I was a happy camper. Then came Topographic Oceans and...enh...that one didn't work as well for me. Relayer came out and, though I missed Rick Wakeman, I was okay with Moraz, but that was pretty much the last "real" Yes album for me, though they went on to have plenty of hits.

Somewhere during that time period, Steve Howe released Beginnings and Chris released Fish Out Of Water. I, being a bass player and a Chris-loyalist, immediately bought Chris's album. A friend of mine, a guitarist, bought Beginnings. I loved Fish Out Of Water, but my friend was sorely disappointed with Beginnings. He'd come over to my house to listen to FOOW, lamenting about what could have been with Steve's album.

Now Chris is gone--and quite suddenly, too, from my perspective. I read that he was sick, then a month later he was dead. I'm sure those who were closer to him knew more at an earlier stage than the public did, but it came as a shock to me. In my estimation, he was integral to Yes's sound. I saw the Howe/White version of Yes a while back and, with all due respect to the guy, don't feel that Billy Sherwood can hold a candle to Chris. He just doesn't have "it." Doesn't have the chops. Doesn't have The Tone. Doesn't have the soaring voice. Doesn't have the stage presence. Nothing. It's unfortunate.

I remember seeing Yes several times during the '70s, particularly Savannah, Georgia on the Yessongs tour, with ambulances parked on either end of the stage, sirens blaring. (Apparently the same night they laid the foundations for what would later become Topographic Oceans.) Chris seemed weightless in those days...filled with helium. He could leap into the air and--like some basketball players--hang there, unsupported, for what seemed a preposterous period of time. Gravity simply had no hold on him.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if XYZ had worked out. Jimmy Page and Chris Squire? My mind boggles.

I came for Chris and stayed for Chris. That guy in the sparkly cape? He was pretty good, too. Still is, for that matter.

Grey
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#2967940 - 01/09/19 09:37 AM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: GRollins]
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Killer: tone, rhythm, feel, whatever...just killer. (for some reason I can't get the url to work with the media tag button)


https://youtu.be/0rd9ihDTebo?t=43


Edited by Iconoclast (01/09/19 09:39 AM)
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#2968044 - 01/09/19 05:18 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Iconoclast]
EricBarker Offline
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Same! If I had to pick just one member of Yes, it would be Chris, hands down. If I had to pick two, the second might be Steve Howe, just because his sound and influences are so godamn unique (even if they're not always "pretty"). The only reason ABWH worked as well as they did is they had Tony Levin, who gives Chris a run for his money in my book, and the rest really pulled their weight well. Wakeman works in Yes, but I have no interest in his solo stuff, he's too "me me me" in his playing. But don't get me wrong, he's one of my FAVORITE keyboard players, easily in my top 5, but he's got his flaws, where-as Chris has none.

A note about Yes's singing prowess. Honestly, every time I hear Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, for a moment I mistakenly think I'm listening to an early Yes song I hadn't heard before. I know they're very different, but early Yes and CSNY feel very similar in the vocal department, largely due to Chris.
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#2968048 - 01/09/19 05:40 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: EricBarker]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Not surprising as the influence was very heavy; especially regarding Crosby. That's why they covered one of his songs from The Byrds on their first album. Both of the first two albums have covers that belie their roots.
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#2968064 - 01/09/19 07:54 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: EricBarker]
Sundown Offline
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Originally Posted By: EricBarker
Same! If I had to pick just one member of Yes, it would be Chris, hands down. If I had to pick two...


I’d probably go with Bill Bruford as my second pick. I just love listening to his playing, and I love listening to interviews with him (a great storyteller and a very wise individual).

Originally Posted By: EricBarker
The only reason ABWH worked as well as they did is they had Tony Levin, who gives Chris a run for his money in my book, and the rest really pulled their weight well.


Matt Clifford deserves some credit for that album as well. He played keys as a sideman on some of the tour dates. He also helped with the arrangements.

Originally Posted By: EricBarker
Wakeman works in Yes, but I have no interest in his solo stuff, he's too "me me me" in his playing.


I have *a lot* of Rick albums, but I really don’t listen to them anymore. His large-scale seventies productions remind me of the Stonehenge scene in Spinal Tap, and the glut of albums he released in the nineties are crap (with the exception of one or two of the Wakeman with Wakeman albums, which showcase his technical ability). “Crap” is a strong word for a hero, but citing “The Classical Connection” as an example, releasing a solo piano album featuring a Korg M1/T1 piano sample is dreadful. That’s phoning it in. You need a real piano for that sort of record, especially in 1991. I only bought one other record after that, which was his “Return to the Center of the Earth”, which has a few decent tracks and cameos (Trevor Rabin, Ozzy, Bonnie Tyler, etc).
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#2968065 - 01/09/19 07:56 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Sundown]
Sundown Offline
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One of my favorite Chris clips, from the “Union” tour...

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#2968072 - 01/09/19 09:27 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Sundown]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sundown
Originally Posted By: EricBarker
Same! If I had to pick just one member of Yes, it would be Chris, hands down. If I had to pick two...


I’d probably go with Bill Bruford as my second pick.

Yes... Squire and Bruford are my musicanship picks, which is ironic since apparently neither of them felt they worked particularly well together. As for Howe, I prefer his earlier stuff. Starting with CTTE, his lines got less melodic and more "angular."
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#2968128 - 01/10/19 07:07 AM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Sundown]
dje31 Offline
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As a huge Yes fan, as well as Chris Squire fan, the Fish solo from the 2003 Live at Montreaux DVD rendition is a better example, in performance, sound, and video, IMHO. Longer, and included more examples of his artistry, including bits of Tempus Fugit, Silent Wings of Freedom, etc.


Edited by dje31 (01/10/19 07:08 AM)

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#2968222 - 01/10/19 04:07 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: dje31]
EricBarker Offline
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I love Bruford, but Yes worked perfectly fine with White IMO, so it's really hard for me to think of him as an integral member the way Chris was. Bruford also has his downsides too, I would never hire him to lay down an infectious groove. In my band we kind of have a running joke that if the drummer starts hitting all the accents he's "Brufording it". Not always a bad thing, and I tend to love that style, but its not always a good thing either. I see Bruford being like Wakeman, he's fantastic at many things, but you wouldn't pick him to a lot of other things. While I figure you could put Chris in just about anything and he would kill it.

I would give Peart an edge over Bruford, even though Bruford's probably the better player, I feel Peart has more range.
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#2968223 - 01/10/19 04:15 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Sundown]
Aidan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sundown
I find it funny that given the history between Bill and Chris, Chris had Bill play on his solo album. Those two were oil and water.


Squire obviously knew that the complexities of the music would be a walk in the park for Bruford, while the latter probably did it for the money – Bruford could be quite mercenary in his choice of jobs, given the opportunity.
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#2968226 - 01/10/19 04:24 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: dje31]
Sundown Offline
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Originally Posted By: dje31
As a huge Yes fan, as well as Chris Squire fan, the Fish solo from the 2003 Live at Montreaux DVD rendition is a better example, in performance, sound, and video, IMHO. Longer, and included more examples of his artistry, including bits of Tempus Fugit, Silent Wings of Freedom, etc.


Agreed. I have that DVD. But I don’t think it’s on YouTube, so I couldn’t post it.

I love the “Tempus Fugit” run. What a great bass line.
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#2968410 - 01/11/19 04:37 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Sundown]
Shutoku Offline
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I feel that the classic Yes sound really requires the classic line up (though I'm fine with Bruford or White) but the two most required ingredients are Anderson and Squire. With either missing it just isn't as good (though I think ABWH was an excellent Yes album...it would undoubtably have been better with three changes...1. no electric drums, 2. Chris Squire, 3. No teakbois)

I think Squire's vocals are excellent and really they would have been fine with him taking over when Anderson left in 1980. But the blend he has with Anderson is incredible.
As a bass player, he is hands down my favourite.

For me Yes is defined by Fragile through to Going For the One.
The Yes Album is excellent, but I wish Wakeman was on it. I prefer all of the Yessongs versions of those songs because Wakeman adds so much to them. Tormato I think is under-rated, but one of the things I don't like so much about it, is actually Squire's bass sound on that album.
Later albums for the most part don't hold a ton of interest for me, nor does any form of Yes missing Anderson, Wakeman and Squire...at least two of them really need to be there.

For solo Yes work I would tend to rate Olias of Sunhillow as the best, with a tie for Criminal Record, Six Wives, for second and Fish out of Water third.
Chris Squire's Swiss Choir is also a great Xmas album (and an amazing title!!)

As for Squire's fashion sense....a bit hit and miss. I cannot get past the poodle boots! laugh


Edited by Shutoku (01/11/19 04:42 PM)
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#2968412 - 01/11/19 05:02 PM Re: I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris... [Re: Shutoku]
Sundown Offline
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Originally Posted By: Shutoku
...though I think ABWH was an excellent Yes album...it would undoubtably have been better with three changes...1. no electric drums, 2. Chris Squire, 3. No teakbois


I actually like the percussion on the ABWH album. Bruford’s electronic snare is a bit obnoxious (too repetitive, especially on the live album), but I do like some of his other sounds. “Brother of Mine” has a good drum track, and I like the drums on “Fist of Fire”.

As much as I love Chris, I don’t know if he would have helped or hurt the ABWH album. I discovered ABWH before Yes, so I’ve always viewed it as its own entity. I didn’t have any preconceived notions before listening to it. I think there are a few really good pieces on it, and I’m not sure what impact Chris would have had. “The Meeting” and “Let’s Pretend” are fantastic, and I like “Brother of Mine”, except for the ending. I made a version for myself that fades out on Steve Howe’s pedal steel solo.

As for “Teakbois”, well, let’s just say it’s a different track. smile But I do actually enjoy it from time to time. Rick had some really good brass/Minimoog lines on it.

Originally Posted By: Shutoku
The Yes Album is excellent, but I wish Wakeman was on it.


We can agree to disagree on that one. I think Rick would have overplayed on some of those tracks. I do like his “Starship Trooper” Minimoog solo, but I think Tony did a better job on the organ parts.

Originally Posted By: Shutoku
Tormato I think is under-rated, but one of the things I don't like so much about it, is actually Squire's bass sound on that album.


I totally agree. He had that slightly overdriven “wah” sound, particularly on “Future Times” and “On the Silent Wings of Freedom”. Not my favorite.

I like “Future Times”, “Release Release”, “Onward”, and “On the Silent Wings of Freedom”, but I don’t particularly like “Don’t Kill the Whale”, “Circus of Heaven”, or “Arriving UFO”. I’m on the fence about “Madrigal”. I like the Thomas Goff harpsichord, but it seems odd track for a rock album (even a prog rock album).

I actually think Rick is the weak link on Tormato. I don’t like the Polymoog patches, and his solo on “Release Release” gets in the way. I’m not a fan of the solo on “Don’t Kill the Whale” either (but I don’t like the song overall).
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