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Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again #2967344
01/07/19 12:27 AM
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Fast forward to the SOLO at 6:30 (slow bluesy funk)




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Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Jazz+] #2967349
01/07/19 01:12 AM
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Enjoyed that. Super tight trio - fantastic time, and hits galore.
A chopsfest, sure. But tasteful most of the time and a bloody master class on styles and techniques from several eras of piano music. She gave them what they expect to see at a Hiromi show.


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Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2967360
01/07/19 04:09 AM
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I adore her.

I honestly think most of the backlash against her is sexist, and maybe even a little racist. She's a monster.


"
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: MathOfInsects] #2967361
01/07/19 04:22 AM
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Has this been posted here before? It's just beautiful.



"
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: MathOfInsects] #2967363
01/07/19 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
I honestly think most of the backlash against her is sexist, and maybe even a little racist. She's a monster.
There's a backlash?

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: El Lobo] #2967367
01/07/19 06:23 AM
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Just my opinion her licks are not tasteful and smooth as some are repeated to become boring just my opinion!

But I don't think racist has nothing to do with her performance. The playing has more do with performance. Oh yea she is a great player but if your ears do the listening just not tasteful for my ears. Not throwing shade JMO!

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Jazz+] #2967372
01/07/19 08:03 AM
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What a fantastic drum kit to bring to the piano trio!


Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: JoJoB3] #2967384
01/07/19 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted By: JoJoB3
What a fantastic drum kit to bring to the piano trio!




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Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2967392
01/07/19 10:44 AM
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Sounds to me like Hiromi is channeling the one and only Gene Harris. Props to her for paying homage. cool


PD

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: MathOfInsects] #2967416
01/07/19 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects


I honestly think most of the backlash against her is sexist, and maybe even a little racist. She's a monster.


You're probably right. Jazz aficionados are known for racism and misogyny. "Everybody Loves Bill Evans"? Really? Why not just wave the confederate flag!

As the tiny river wears down the towering mountain, so do these Hiromi threads cause me to gradually warm up to her. 50 or so more (She's done it again!) and I might flip to the other side and give up my racist, misogynistic ways.

This one was particularly good. Still, at this point, I'd rather listen to Gene Harris than Hiromi channeling Gene Harris.


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Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: El Lobo] #2967426
01/07/19 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: El Lobo
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
I honestly think most of the backlash against her is sexist, and maybe even a little racist. She's a monster.
There's a backlash?


See below your post. smile


"
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Adan] #2967427
01/07/19 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Adan
You're probably right. Jazz aficionados are known for racism and misogyny. "Everybody Loves Bill Evans"? Really? Why not just wave the confederate flag!


For decades, maybe even continuing through today, Wynton Marsalis refused to conduct blind auditions for the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra. The reason? He didn't want women in the orchestra. He truly felt/feels that female players are inferior to men. He also prefers African American players, though he has a fair number of white folks in the group.

No Asians, no females.

So yes, misogyny and racism are quite present in people's responses to players.

White folks have no trouble breaking through, and in fact most of the reason there are "jazz aficionados" are because people like Dave Brubeck offered palatable ways to consume jazz at a time when we weren't quite so 'enlightened.'

Women? Rare. Asians? Rarer yet. Asian women? Hard to name three.


"
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: MathOfInsects] #2967428
01/07/19 01:24 PM
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there's a box, I didn't know there was a box, where's the box...is bigger than bread box, is it that blue box?

Last edited by Legatoboy; 01/07/19 01:25 PM.

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Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Legatoboy] #2967507
01/07/19 06:14 PM
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For me, she is very entertaining to watch perform.
To see her experiencing the music is uplifting. It makes me feel good about life.
But I wouldn't listen to her in the car for pure audio enjoyment... That's reserved more for my true favorites: Monty Alexander, Wynton Kelly, Erroll Garner, Oscar Peterson, The Beatles.

I still can't get over how intense this performance is, the way it builds up is out of this world:





Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: bennyray] #2967513
01/07/19 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: bennyray
Not throwing shade JMO!


Here's a tip: if you have to specify that you're "not throwing shade," you're throwing shade. wink


"Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them."
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2967547
01/07/19 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted By: JoJoB3
What a fantastic drum kit to bring to the piano trio!




He's doing more with less compared to Kneeel Piert there with Hiromi.

I dunno, Hiromi just doesn't scratch that itch for me guys. Sorry.
Fine player of course.

Channeling? No, no 'attempting" (perhaps 'flirting') with Gene Harris at most.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: JoJoB3] #2967555
01/07/19 09:22 PM
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I Love Hiromi. Caught her fairly early in her public career in the early 00s. Saw her last year in Honolulu, fantastic! She is indeed a monster, and a joy to see perform.

My only criticism is that I don't really feel like she's progressed or challenged herself (or me) since her first few albums. "Time Control" was kind of the height of her going wild, but then I feel like she sort of reeled herself back in, maybe it was too much for modern jazz audiences. No question, she's still an awesome freak and gonna scare the shit out of the tired "jazz fogies", but she has stopped pushing the envelope like she used to. Her last album just felt like a rehash of the same licks I heard early on, and I was kind of disappointed.

Still, one of my favorite jazz pianists of our age, right up there with Corey Henry and Tigran Hamasiyan. But if I want to go bats**t, I'll give Tigran the edge. I think she's coming back through the islands here in a few months, and I'll DEFINITELY see her again.


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Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: MathOfInsects] #2967565
01/07/19 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
I adore her.

I honestly think most of the backlash against her is sexist, and maybe even a little racist. She's a monster.


What backlash?

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Radagast] #2967578
01/07/19 11:07 PM
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Okay, Hiomi has said her influences were Oscar Peterson, Erroll Garner, Chick Corea, Jeff Beck, Zapa, and Bruce Lee.

It's all about the solos with Hiromi. I don't even listen to her studio recordings. For me, Hiromi is appealing when watching her in action on YouTube; the way she moves her fingers, hands and arm; her exuberance, the dramatic facial expressions. I thinks she is visually spectacular when playing. It's like watching Bruce Lee on piano. She is undeniably a master pianist. For me, the tunes she writes are a secondary thing, various fusion pieces, not really my thing; mainly they act as vehicles for her solos. I like the way she plays solo piano the best.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: MathOfInsects] #2967597
01/08/19 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
For decades, maybe even continuing through today, Wynton Marsalis refused to conduct blind auditions for the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra. The reason? He didn't want women in the orchestra. He truly felt/feels that female players are inferior to men. He also prefers African American players, though he has a fair number of white folks in the group.

No Asians, no females.

So yes, misogyny and racism are quite present in people's responses to players.

White folks have no trouble breaking through, and in fact most of the reason there are "jazz aficionados" are because people like Dave Brubeck offered palatable ways to consume jazz at a time when we weren't quite so 'enlightened.'

Women? Rare. Asians? Rarer yet. Asian women? Hard to name three.


I’m tossing the bullshit flag here. Show your proof.

A big band is not a symphony orchestra where blind auditions are the norm.

A couple years ago, Helen Sung subbed for Dan Nimmer on tour and while he was out on paternity leave. Maybe you’ve heard her play? I have many times.

Alexa Tarrentino regularly subs on alto. If you don’t know her, you will.

Camille Thurmond played tenor on the Miles show I saw in November. She is subbing for Walter Blanding through this season. Camille slayed on their holiday show last month.

Let me Svengle this for you:
Sub list. https://www.jazz.org/y28z77j/?toggle=2
Selection process. https://www.jazz.org/y28z77j/?toggle=2


Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Mark Zeger] #2967598
01/08/19 12:58 AM
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Back on the Hiromi topic. She has incredible techinical ability but her playing leaves me completely cold. At Newport, I listened to a solo set. Left after 10 minutes. I listened to her trio. Maybe 15 minutes.

I watched the video. Nothing.

I respect her talent and the joy she brings to a substantial fan base. It’s just not for me.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Mark Zeger] #2967599
01/08/19 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger

I’m tossing the bullshit flag here. Show your proof.
Let me Svengle this for you:
Sub list. https://www.jazz.org/y28z77j/?toggle=2
Selection process. https://www.jazz.org/y28z77j/?toggle=2



Never challenge an academic to a google-off. This took literally a millisecond to find.

Article about the lawsuit that required blind auditions because of Marsalis's exclusionary policies

Article about protests against Marsalis's lack of blind auditions resulting in all-male orchestra

2015 article about JLCO changing its hiring policy. You'll notice the picture of the ensemble in this one...

Should I go on? I literally teach this exact topic and can post as many links as you'd like...


"
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: MathOfInsects] #2967601
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We’re going way off topic. I’ll conclude my comments here.

How many men are in the Diva Big Band? Do they have blind auditions? Does Maria Schneider hold blind auditions? How many women are in Gordon Goodwin’s Big Phat Band (http://www.bigphatband.com/about)? Snarky Puppy? The Roots? Maybe Ellen Seeling should file more lawsuits. Both these articles are about the actions of this 1 person.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Mark Zeger] #2967602
01/08/19 01:22 AM
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That's not what you said, though. You threw the bullshit flag, and asked for proof. I provided proof.

Now you're on to something slightly different.

I decline the kind invitation to follow you there.

Best to you.


"
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: MathOfInsects] #2967604
01/08/19 01:31 AM
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So if this artist’s work is not to someone’s taste, it means there’s a backlash, and that person is sexist and a racist. Got it.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: MathOfInsects] #2967605
01/08/19 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
(Wynton Marsalis)didn't want women in the orchestra. He truly felt/feels that female players are inferior to men. He also prefers African American players, though he has a fair number of white folks in the group.

Quote:
I provided proof.

facepalm


Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Mark Zeger] #2967607
01/08/19 01:47 AM
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Your initial post seemed to be about the presence (or lack) of women in the JLCO, and my statement about the selection process. You posted a link to their selection process and the names of women in the orchestra as evidence that I could not be correct. You asked for proof. I shared some links with you that addressed the angle you seemed strongly to be refuting.

I think any further conversation, if you really would like one, would be more fruitful off the board.


"
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: MathOfInsects] #2967609
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Coffee?

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: bennyray] #2967612
01/08/19 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: bennyray
Just my opinion her licks are not tasteful and smooth as some are repeated to become boring just my opinion!

But I don't think racist has nothing to do with her performance. The playing has more do with performance. Oh yea she is a great player but if your ears do the listening just not tasteful for my ears. Not throwing shade JMO!


Completely agree with you. The first video is not very tasteful and not musical. I liked the second video with C. Corea much more. And comments about racism or sexism were absolutely unnecessary.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Mark Zeger] #2967614
01/08/19 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
Coffee?


yes, I'll buy. coffee


"Use what works. Gear is overrated." CEB
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Mark Zeger] #2967618
01/08/19 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
Coffee?


Yes, with a sizable shot of Jameson's please....

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: MathOfInsects] #2967626
01/08/19 04:35 AM
01/08/19 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger

I’m tossing the bullshit flag here. Show your proof.
Let me Svengle this for you:
Sub list. https://www.jazz.org/y28z77j/?toggle=2
Selection process. https://www.jazz.org/y28z77j/?toggle=2



Never challenge an academic to a google-off. This took literally a millisecond to find.

Article about the lawsuit that required blind auditions because of Marsalis's exclusionary policies

Article about protests against Marsalis's lack of blind auditions resulting in all-male orchestra

2015 article about JLCO changing its hiring policy. You'll notice the picture of the ensemble in this one...

Should I go on? I literally teach this exact topic and can post as many links as you'd like...


I do not believe you know what you are talking about. Mainly your false narrative of injecting gender into the conversation.
Jazz is principally an Afro American invention, along with some non afro african americans to add what they had to add. Afro American males were the main players, with a minority of females and some ahead of the curve non African Americans, to create what wwe have now.
In amy case, jass turns out to be a human endeavor... there are great female and white players. This japanese player has amazing ability, that I am still adjusting to. And not unlike Hiromi:


Last edited by I-missRichardTee; 01/08/19 04:22 PM.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you
We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: I-missRichardTee] #2967642
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Some KC members know my Wynton story. Maybe I’ll share it over coffee someday.

Who wants coffee?

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Mark Zeger] #2967650
01/08/19 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
Back on the Hiromi topic. She has incredible techinical ability but her playing leaves me completely cold. At Newport, I listened to a solo set. Left after 10 minutes. I listened to her trio. Maybe 15 minutes.

I had a similar experience seeing her at Newport. I left in the middle of her set and found another performance on another stage — I think it was Lou Donaldson with Pat Bianchi on B3 — that quickly warmed up my chilly soul.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Al Quinn] #2967661
01/08/19 11:02 AM
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Although this is probably narrow minded, I tend to judge whether I can listen to anyone or anything by my own personal “soul / no-soul / fake-soul” criterion. Takes maybe 5 seconds. When I can’t get past the obvious mathematics of a player, I move on real fast.


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Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: davedoerfler] #2967665
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Hiromi is wonderful. Tasty, melodic and great timing. Sheer Joy. Her left hand is a lethal weapon.

Great to see and hear Simon Phillips. First time I saw him play was in 1978, with Jack Bruce at My Father's Place in Roslyn, NY. Simon was barely a teenager and it was clear he was different and going places.

Last edited by SteveCoscia; 01/08/19 01:31 PM.
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: SteveCoscia] #2967672
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Meh.

Lots of notes but I can't connect with her.

Reminds me of listening to Vai or Malmsteen on guitar; uber talented but not for me.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: p19978] #2967697
01/08/19 01:52 PM
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Maybe I'm just slow to understand new stuff, but there's so much great music that wouldn't be in my life if I'd given up on it after 5 seconds.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: bfields] #2967714
01/08/19 02:34 PM
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Heaven, Hell, or Houston
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I just watched this yesterday. Jump to about 28 or so minutes in when Nicolas Payton talks about "BAM" vs. jazz and all that, then Wynton talks next about race and music at about 30 minutes. If he's a racist I'm a frakkin' slaveowner.

Jazz Congress Day 1, Session 1: Jazz, Swing, Race and Culture


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: bfields] #2967716
01/08/19 02:36 PM
01/08/19 02:36 PM
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I don't dig her live trio shows, too much LOUD fusion for my taste.
I like being able to fast forward and volume control her solos on YouTube.
I enjoy her solo piano live shows.

Solo piano (Canon)


Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Jazz+] #2967730
01/08/19 04:12 PM
01/08/19 04:12 PM
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These Hiromi threads always follow the same arc. Jazz+ posts a vid of her tearing the keys off the piano, and inevitably someone will post a reply about how, while the skill is incredible, it's just not their mug of Ovaltine, and then it's on....for myself, the Malmsteen comparison is dead on. While I'm in AWE of what she can do on a piano it just don't resonate with me on an emotional level at all....

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Jazz+] #2967733
01/08/19 04:19 PM
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To be fair, my comment focused more on sexism than racism (which if you scroll back, you'll see I waffled about in my comment). Though there are comments to be found by the esteemed WM establishing a racial component as well.

However, all it takes is a single glance at the LCJO before and after blind auditions were instituted, to draw a pretty stark conclusion about who was deemed worthy when membership was determined at least partially by eye and familiarity, vs. whose playing (alone) might have qualified them to join.

Having said that, I have been a member here long enough to know that race and gender conversations never go over well here, and I should have known better.

So forgive me for the side-trip into our "no" zone and let's go back to appreciating the utterly bad-ass Hiromi, who I wish would stop calling me and asking me to marry her.


"
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Mark Zeger] #2967736
01/08/19 04:23 PM
01/08/19 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
Some KC members know my Wynton story. Maybe I’ll share it over coffee someday.

Who wants coffee?


I am not busy enough and curious to hear story over PM
or here.


You don't have ideas, ideas have you
We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: I-missRichardTee] #2967752
01/08/19 05:55 PM
01/08/19 05:55 PM
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Just think, instead of wasting your time hearing Hiromi, you could be reading and thinking about these topics:


What new toppings do you want to see on your hotdog?
what new toppings do you want to see on your pizza?
What new furniture would you like to see from IKEA?
What new condiments would you like to see at Whattaburger?
I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris...
OT Just before the gig I shave.
OT Linebacker in the office.
My iPhone weather app !!
Richard Carpenter - Chops
Has anyone used GarageBand?
ABACAB Discussion
Tho shall not play “Jump” A KC commandment

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Jazz+] #2967756
01/08/19 06:12 PM
01/08/19 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jazz+
Just think, instead of wasting your time hearing Hiromi, you could be reading and thinking about these topics:


What new toppings do you want to see on your hotdog?
what new toppings do you want to see on your pizza?
What new furniture would you like to see from IKEA?
What new condiments would you like to see at Whattaburger?
I came for Rick, I stayed for Chris...
OT Just before the gig I shave.
OT Linebacker in the office.
My iPhone weather app !!
Richard Carpenter - Chops
Has anyone used GarageBand?
ABACAB Discussion
Tho shall not play “Jump” A KC commandment


Hey man....leave my IKEA thread outta this laugh

Last edited by area51recording; 01/08/19 06:13 PM.
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: area51recording] #2967759
01/08/19 06:25 PM
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Joy indeed! I love the way Hiromi's trio straddles traditional jazz piano trio and modern fusion. I enjoyed this performance's lean towards the former, but you still get Anthony Jackson walking against a pedalpoint on his six-string electric, and Simon Phillips tastefully, quietly filling on what looks like the same drum set he played with the Who in the 80s. Piano playing's not bad either! laugh


Samuel B. Lupowitz
Composer. Arranger. Musician. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: samuelblupowitz] #2967764
01/08/19 06:48 PM
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Well since everyone else has chimed in, here's my take:

She is phenomenally talented. she can play circles around me.
I just don't care for it. It's not my thing. It has nothing to do with her being a woman or of Asian Heritage.

I also say the same thing about Corea and Emerson.

All three of the above make me look like a toddler with a Fisher Price My First Piano smile

This almost harkens back a thread a week or so ago:

I can appreciate talent and not like the tunes. These are not mutually exclusive things.

Not once in my entire life have I dismissed an artist based on gender or race/heritage... if I like it, I like it. if I don't, I don't. Whether or not I think an artist is talented or not is a separate conversation.

Even some of my very favorite, talented artists have put out material that I'd never listen to again.


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Komplete Kontrol S61MK2 |Alesis Vortex Wireless 2 | GigPerformer 3|

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Joe Muscara] #2967870
01/09/19 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
I just watched this yesterday. Jump to about 28 or so minutes in when Nicolas Payton talks about "BAM" vs. jazz and all that, then Wynton talks next about race and music at about 30 minutes. If he's a racist I'm a frakkin' slaveowner.

Jazz Congress Day 1, Session 1: Jazz, Swing, Race and Culture


Joe, Man oh Man was I wrong about Wynton... I agree with you... But am I a total idiot, or has Wynton massively matured since he was a younger man?
Any how, I am very very pleased and enlightened to hear Wynton's ideas about the music... I liked the all inclusivity ... I never put 2 and 2 together with the Irish Washer woman and 6/8 jazz.
Re Italian American contribution, that is super obvious ... I heard an anecdote about Wes Montgomery and Coltrane in a car ( I assume on the road, but not sure ) and they were happily singing O Solo Mio! Wish I could have been a fly on the windshield to hear that. Eddie Lang and Joe Venuti were exponents of this music and were Sicilians.

I did not listen to most of the forum talk with Nickolas Payton and Marsalis, but I want to mention the African American Church was another invaluable part of this music.
Yes, there is no doubt in my mind, the lions share of the contribution The american negro made with what we call jazz or jass. But there is also no doubt that there are some bad boys who are not African American and can play unbelievably well.. Ronnie Cuber comes to mind. Also giants like Stan Getz, Bill Evans etc.
But I diverged from Wynton's focus, where he beautifully describes this wonderful music in an at once African American music AND a European American music creation.

I was 100% Wrong about Wynton, and apologize to him and all concerned...

Hiromi and Anthony Jackson are virtuoso level players.. but I am still waiting for this music to grab me emotionally. But I am also glad she and Anthony with Simon the drummer, are doing their wonderfully creative music... very glad indeed.


You don't have ideas, ideas have you
We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: MathOfInsects] #2967937
01/09/19 02:32 PM
01/09/19 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
To be fair, my comment focused more on sexism than racism (which if you scroll back, you'll see I waffled about in my comment). Though there are comments to be found by the esteemed WM establishing a racial component as well.

However, all it takes is a single glance at the LCJO before and after blind auditions were instituted, to draw a pretty stark conclusion about who was deemed worthy when membership was determined at least partially by eye and familiarity, vs. whose playing (alone) might have qualified them to join.

Having said that, I have been a member here long enough to know that race and gender conversations never go over well here, and I should have known better.

So forgive me for the side-trip into our "no" zone and let's go back to appreciating the utterly bad-ass Hiromi, who I wish would stop calling me and asking me to marry her.


Hi. It's 2019. The majority knows there's male and female talent galore outside of whatever select, bigoted fool examples are left roaming the earth. There's no need for this (other than 'strut and pontification).
Put it away and go outside.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: JoJoB3] #2967943
01/09/19 02:49 PM
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The main topic for me is she's clever keyboardist. I get technical ideas from what she does. She's a gold mine for that. She has a lot of routines in her method and I have stolen quite a few; I've incorporated about half a dozen devices she uses on this number and others. I've also sourced about 10 Monty Alexander routine devices from his method. This stuff is a gold mine for me as a pianist. I'm not sure why some digress on to other tangents while I'm busy plagiarizing the clever things a pianist does. I will steal from any musician, and rightly so.









Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Jazz+] #2967944
01/09/19 02:53 PM
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I don't care for her feel, that's my take. I am sure she is a nice person and everything. Something seems unnatural about it. I get her appeal believe me. I can't put my finger on it but it seems contrived?


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Outkaster] #2967945
01/09/19 02:56 PM
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I know what you mean. Her swing is not great. But I think you were saying you don't like jazz piano in general? I don't think her feel is bad, you get used to it if you let yourself be flexible. I like swing better. That doesn't stop me from admiring her devices. She is a gold mine for stealing from. Just the way she handled rhythm changes in that last video! She went through about a dozen styles on that single tune! That's what interests me, the constant shifting of styles on one tune. Monty does it too!

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Jazz+] #2967948
01/09/19 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jazz+
The main topic for me is she's clever keyboardist. I get technical ideas from what she does. She's a gold mine for that. She has a lot of routines in her method and I have stolen quite a few; I've incorporated about half a dozen devices she uses on this number and others. I've also sourced about 10 Monty Alexander routine devices from his method. This stuff is a gold mine for me as a pianist. I'm not sure why some digress on to other tangents while I'm busy plagiarizing the clever things a pianist does. I will steal from any musician, and rightly so.








Still boring.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: gg22] #2967949
01/09/19 03:02 PM
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Some people don't like Monty Alexander either. Who cares if you don't. But he is a good source for stealing devices. Like Hiromi, Monty changes the style of his left hand and his rhythmic approach almost every 8 bars. It;'s a gold mine, it's a gold mine for devices.



Casio PX-S3000 | Mojo 61 | Fender Rhodes | 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Jazz+] #2967950
01/09/19 03:03 PM
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I like Jazz piano but her feel isn't great. I don't like contrived playing and when I see her I'm bored. I have a Latin jazz teacher versed in a lot of styles and can tell you the difference on how Oscar Peterson would play something compared to people like Bill Evans. Believe me I get an education because it's a style I am learning and really didn't grow up with. That said I can tell by watching and hearing a person if they are a better player than me technically.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Outkaster] #2967964
01/09/19 04:23 PM
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The answer is in the make up of different players and listeners.
We do not hear it much anymore, in the proper light anyway, but people are significantly different in their make up.
I have no authoritative book/ author to borrow from.. but in a very simplistic way.. there are people who operate, who function from intellect more than others.
I have been curious about the different natures of humanity, and have found small tidbits here and there that hint to me about these differences, and that and my responses to various players suggests to me, that my weak little theory has something behind it.

So far I only mentioned intellect versus non intellect.. that sucks, but maybe you know what I mean.? It is a binary categorization, only two options.. but I suspect there are more than two, and the various admixtures.
I know some categories you can do you own thinking about:

Astrology has 12 types

the four temperaments : Four temperaments is a proto-psychological theory that suggests that there are four fundamental personality types, sanguine (optimistic, active and social), choleric (short-tempered, fast or irritable), melancholic (analytical,wise and quiet), and phlegmatic (relaxed and peaceful). Most formulations include the possibility of mixtures of the types.

Briggs Myers

And a very old system called the Enneagram which divides personality into 9 types and their respective admixtures.

Then there is the degree of self awareness a person is in contact with.

I recommend a "deep" eastern ( Asia ) flavored book that I far from comprehend, but that opens doorways .. "The Mysticism of Sound and Music" by Khan.

Music involves a resonance between the artist music and the listener. I know the receptivity and sensitivity of a room of listeners to the music, has great effect on the total experience of the artists' performance.
This applies to the Artist in question, Hiromi.
I am pleased she is on the front lines ( on the road ) putting her music out there and with 2 gifted unusual talents at her side, Anthony Jackson and Simon Philips.

Last edited by I-missRichardTee; 01/09/19 04:25 PM.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you
We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Outkaster] #2967965
01/09/19 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Outkaster
I don't care for her feel, that's my take. I am sure she is a nice person and everything. Something seems unnatural about it. I get her appeal believe me. I can't put my finger on it but it seems contrived?


You are a very different sort of person than Hiromi... and when you say she sounds contrived, I am guessing I know what you mean. Let me take a stab in the dark.
You can hear her thoughts as she plays and you believe you can sense these "thoughts" were practised hard and long, far from the bandstand. In other words she is not spontaneous and emotional enough for you.
But problem with this hunch is the SOME PEOPLE can actually weep at her performance!
I just think we need to work on having a tolerant and open mind about those who do not touch us on a deep level.

The deepest idea, I have already said at the K Corner before... some musicians play more from ego than others. The highest music is not from ego. Not from thinking or pre-thinking at home.
Which is a topic for debate.
I read a book long ago, by Andrew White the 3rd, he had transcribed "all" of Bird and Coltrane and could play very well himself, having played with Elvin Jones!
In his short book he claimed Coltrane was not a genius!!
I know what he thinks he means.. I DO hear the connection between what Trane practices voraciously and his performances... not unlike Hiromi. These are two virtuosi.
So we have to be very very open, tolerant and patient in the hope that SOMEDAY we will " get what all the fuss is about" with these type of players.

It took me 50 years to finally get, Art Tatum.
You cannot force it, it comes when it comes, if it comes.

Back to Hiromi and Trane: So far Hiromi has not touched me emotionally , but Trane has made me weep in a deep way. I do know why he is accused of not being a genius,, I sort of hear the practised lines in Coltrane, just as you hear the pre practised lines in Hiromi.. BUT Trane DOES get very deep, and if you are distracted by what you think you hear in Trane,,, his "pre practising", it may block your apprehending his relentless egoless search for truth. Players even on this level do not always nail it, do not always get that incredible flow. So if we go by our "in five seconds, I know" first impression and shut that artist down, we block a chance to hear these people when they do strike the mother lode of inspiration.
Just very occasionally listen to various tracks of an artist ( Hiromi ) over a period of many years... you may someday be pleasantly surprised .
This happened to me with Art Tatum, Pat Metheny, both of whom I thought were too technical. Nope, the problem was I was not receptive.
Louis Armstrong was corny to me for decades, until one day he was not!

Last edited by I-missRichardTee; 01/09/19 05:45 PM.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you
We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: JoJoB3] #2967967
01/09/19 04:44 PM
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[quote=JoJoB3]What a fantastic drum kit to bring to the piano trio!

It appears to be Simon Phillips, I've not seen him play this style before. But then again, I've haven't looked either.
Only seen him with TOTO.

Paul




Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: I-missRichardTee] #2967968
01/09/19 04:45 PM
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I don't like everything that Hiromi does but in general I find her very interesting. She breaks the boundaries in creative ways which I find inspiring for my own listening satisfaction. Sometimes it feels she's stretching things too far just for the sake of doing it. It doesn't matter, that's probably part of her personality. I like her both as a composer and performer.

Last edited by Sam CA; 01/09/19 04:45 PM.
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Sam CA] #2967981
01/09/19 05:21 PM
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I can say honestly that I'm eternally grateful for this forum for exposing me to artists I might otherwise missed. I don't necessarily buy their stuff, but I'm glad I know about them. Hiromi's in that category. Do we need 12 threads a year about her? Well, personally, I would say no, but I also think forums like this work best when people post about whatever they want that's on topic. Jazz+ seems to be someone who spends a fair amount of time plumbing the depths of youtube to find interesting material and I appreciate it whenever he shares something new and interesting.


Crumar Seven, Crumar Mojo 61, Korg Vox Continental, Yamaha CP73.

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Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Adan] #2967990
01/09/19 06:06 PM
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Thanks, Adan, I appreciate that. I don't buy her stuff either or go to her shows. I just like watching her on youtube when she does her karate on the keys, it's amusing and entertaining form a piano chops perspective. And she has some devices in her left hand (tresillo stride) that I have adopted, for which I am thankful.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: I-missRichardTee] #2967997
01/09/19 06:33 PM
01/09/19 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
I just watched this yesterday. Jump to about 28 or so minutes in when Nicolas Payton talks about "BAM" vs. jazz and all that, then Wynton talks next about race and music at about 30 minutes. If he's a racist I'm a frakkin' slaveowner.

Jazz Congress Day 1, Session 1: Jazz, Swing, Race and Culture


Joe, Man oh Man was I wrong about Wynton... I agree with you... But am I a total idiot, or has Wynton massively matured since he was a younger man?
I've wondered that myself. However, all the negative stuff I have heard about him was always second- or third-hand. It's possible things were taken out of context. All that matters to me now is that I dig him today and if he said dumb stuff in the past, he's moved on so I will too.

As far as Hiromi, Jazz+ makes good points about "stealing" from artists you may not even like. Think about how advanced that is. Most of us are trying to steal stuff we're moved by. That's cool, but when some method or technique can be stolen when it doesn't move you, you will probably make it move you when you play it. cool

Also, I never dug her until I saw the video Keyboard posted where she talked to the interviewer (Robbie or Jon, I think) about her latest album at the time, Move. That performance was killer, JMO, and the album moved me similarly. I haven't jumped into her subsequent stuff like that, but I haven't given it quite the listen, either.

Oh, here's the video. (The Yamaha sounds amazing too.)


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Joe Muscara] #2968001
01/09/19 07:05 PM
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Quote:
I've wondered that myself. However, all the negative stuff I have heard about him was always second- or third-hand. It's possible things were taken out of context. All that matters to me now is that I dig him today and if he said dumb stuff in the past, he's moved on so I will too.


I really wish I hadn’t sent us there. I would encourage anyone really interested in where some of the perspective about Marsalis regarding racism and sexism comes from, to read Gene Lees’ ‘Cats of Any Color.’ I am all too aware that this is not the best board for this kind of topic, as some of these very aggressive responses demonstrate, and want to move on if possible....


"
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: simajanpa] #2968019
01/09/19 08:29 PM
01/09/19 08:29 PM
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JoJoB3 Offline
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Originally Posted By: simajanpa
[quote=JoJoB3]What a fantastic drum kit to bring to the piano trio!

It appears to be Simon Phillips, I've not seen him play this style before. But then again, I've haven't looked either.
Only seen him with TOTO.

Paul


Regardless, imo wrong kit for this instrumentation (I mean REALLY wrong, to the point of distraction).

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: JoJoB3] #2968035
01/09/19 09:41 PM
01/09/19 09:41 PM
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Would you prefer her with Steve Smith?



Yamaha P515, Yamaha KX88, Edirol PCR-800 (2), Korg microKey 61 Air, Mainstage, iOS, assorted other controllers and retired boards.
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Bobby Simons] #2968050
01/09/19 10:47 PM
01/09/19 10:47 PM
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Jazz+ Offline OP
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I think Simon takes big solos on their other up beat fusion tunes in their shows. I wouldn't expect him to remove part of his kit just for looks on one tune.


Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: davedoerfler] #2968051
01/09/19 10:50 PM
01/09/19 10:50 PM
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Dana is that you?

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Jazz+] #2968052
01/09/19 10:57 PM
01/09/19 10:57 PM
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Ohhhhhhh.

Yes, it is.


"
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Jazz+] #2968054
01/09/19 11:09 PM
01/09/19 11:09 PM
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Mark Zeger Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jazz+
Dana is that you?

There is no Dana. Only Zuul.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: JoJoB3] #2968057
01/09/19 11:28 PM
01/09/19 11:28 PM
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Zalman Stern Offline
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Originally Posted By: JoJoB3
Originally Posted By: simajanpa
[quote=JoJoB3]What a fantastic drum kit to bring to the piano trio!

It appears to be Simon Phillips, I've not seen him play this style before. But then again, I've haven't looked either.
Only seen him with TOTO.

Paul


Regardless, imo wrong kit for this instrumentation (I mean REALLY wrong, to the point of distraction).


It's essentially the same kit he uses for his solo gigs. As in it looks almost identical to what he had as a headliner last time I saw him. It isn't clear whether JoJoB3 is objecting to the way the kit looks or implying that Simon is overplaying the gig. The comment seems a bit off as there can be any number of reasons for using a particular kit on a given gig and if the drums are overbearing on a given song, that doesn't have as much to do with the kit so much as the player. (Or even the mix on the video.)

We're talking about three world class players playing well here. Taste is taste and not to be disputed. It ain't my absolute favorite jam of the moment, but claims that this is somehow not competent are totally out to lunch.

-Z-

Last edited by Zalman Stern; 01/09/19 11:47 PM.
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Zalman Stern] #2968071
01/10/19 02:05 AM
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It might be the same kit he brings to ALL his gigs. Here he is with Bill Evans, this past October - looks like the same kit, if not the same exact drums (the finish looks different from the Hiromi clip, but that one is a few years older).

Maybe he simply considers that kit his "instrument", and it's his "voice" irregardless of the musical genre of the gig. Unlike a drummer that might have a few different types of kits depending on the style of music being played.



And the following tune, in my opinion, with its more straight-eight feel, suits the two guys' style (and maybe the sound of Simon's drums) better than the, well, cornier (I know I'm gonna get in trouble for this!) "jazzy" licks she does on the video from the top of this thread. I like this track MUCH more:


Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Adan] #2968083
01/10/19 06:50 AM
01/10/19 06:50 AM
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I am surprised to see there is a lot of talk about like/dislike of Hiromi. I thought she is more appealing to public in general.

Although, sure everyone will dig her 2010's solo performance in Marciac!



Fun fact, AFAIR there is Oscar Peterson somewhere in the audience, and she plays something for him in the middle.



if you can't tell the difference, does it matter?
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: I-missRichardTee] #2968099
01/10/19 10:12 AM
01/10/19 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
I don't care for her feel, that's my take. I am sure she is a nice person and everything. Something seems unnatural about it. I get her appeal believe me. I can't put my finger on it but it seems contrived?


You are a very different sort of person than Hiromi... and when you say she sounds contrived, I am guessing I know what you mean. Let me take a stab in the dark.
You can hear her thoughts as she plays and you believe you can sense these "thoughts" were practised hard and long, far from the bandstand. In other words she is not spontaneous and emotional enough for you.
But problem with this hunch is the SOME PEOPLE can actually weep at her performance!
I just think we need to work on having a tolerant and open mind about those who do not touch us on a deep level.

The deepest idea, I have already said at the K Corner before... some musicians play more from ego than others. The highest music is not from ego. Not from thinking or pre-thinking at home.
Which is a topic for debate.
I read a book long ago, by Andrew White the 3rd, he had transcribed "all" of Bird and Coltrane and could play very well himself, having played with Elvin Jones!
In his short book he claimed Coltrane was not a genius!!
I know what he thinks he means.. I DO hear the connection between what Trane practices voraciously and his performances... not unlike Hiromi. These are two virtuosi.
So we have to be very very open, tolerant and patient in the hope that SOMEDAY we will " get what all the fuss is about" with these type of players.

It took me 50 years to finally get, Art Tatum.
You cannot force it, it comes when it comes, if it comes.

Back to Hiromi and Trane: So far Hiromi has not touched me emotionally , but Trane has made me weep in a deep way. I do know why he is accused of not being a genius,, I sort of hear the practised lines in Coltrane, just as you hear the pre practised lines in Hiromi.. BUT Trane DOES get very deep, and if you are distracted by what you think you hear in Trane,,, his "pre practising", it may block your apprehending his relentless egoless search for truth. Players even on this level do not always nail it, do not always get that incredible flow. So if we go by our "in five seconds, I know" first impression and shut that artist down, we block a chance to hear these people when they do strike the mother lode of inspiration.
Just very occasionally listen to various tracks of an artist ( Hiromi ) over a period of many years... you may someday be pleasantly surprised .
This happened to me with Art Tatum, Pat Metheny, both of whom I thought were too technical. Nope, the problem was I was not receptive.
Louis Armstrong was corny to me for decades, until one day he was not!


There is nothing to get. I can tell in the first few minutes if someone has it. I have a lot less education then people on this board. A lot of you can play better then me. Trust me, I can tell who can really play and who plays at it. She comes from a militaristic/feudal based culture and it kind of comes out in her playing also. I know from being the martial arts for 40 years. It's not a matter of being open to her either or not receptive. Things to me are either are or aren't with music. That might seem like black and white thinking but its true. It's not personal, or weather she is Asian or a woman. I think she has very good technical skills but there are at least ten other people I would rather listen to. Sorry Tee but there is an element of ego in everyone musically, there has to be. It just depends on your motivation for playing music. I know one thing hero worshiping players is a very dangerous thing for a musician and can really be counter productive.

Last edited by Outkaster; 01/10/19 10:24 AM.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Outkaster] #2968108
01/10/19 11:04 AM
01/10/19 11:04 AM
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Outcaster- New York State martial arts reggae band leader man!
Ok you say ego is present unanimously... that is not an arguable point.
I would say, the issue is, a matter of degree. the degree of thinking, the degree of ego ( thinking and ego in a performance are closely allied ) is the issue I suppose.
But all I know is my teacher studied with Oscar P and played and in effect studied with Dizzy Gillespie for 2 decades. He said, that Dizzy said that music invites us in... we have to leave the ego behind to get to that invitation.
So, sure there has to be some ego.. but relatively little.

On the topic of ego. I am a defender of the brash mouthy genius and disliked Buddy Rich.
i feel his ego... but players that are half of him, do they not have ego too? Heck yes.
Buddy more than backs up his ways, with a great gift.
To me, difficult as it might be, it is a privilege to play with him.
I know a few guys who did, and they never bitched about him breaking their gonads.
Music is as deep as humanity is varied.
I would remind you of Shakespeare "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
And one of my heroes Herbie Hancock uses that phrase "open" or open ears.

Might you explain what hero worship means to you?


Last edited by I-missRichardTee; 01/10/19 11:06 AM.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you
We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: I-missRichardTee] #2968109
01/10/19 11:06 AM
01/10/19 11:06 AM
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I agree completely with you. Especially about Buddy Rich. He was something else.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Mark Zeger] #2968113
01/10/19 11:20 AM
01/10/19 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
Some KC members know my Wynton story. Maybe I’ll share it over coffee someday.

Who wants coffee?


I wanna hear the story. I haven't seen you in since we chatted at the Korg shindig in NYC about ten years ago. Enjoyed it. Next time I'm up your way ... thu

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Joe Muscara] #2968115
01/10/19 11:27 AM
01/10/19 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
I just watched this yesterday. Jump to about 28 or so minutes in when Nicolas Payton talks about "BAM" vs. jazz and all that, then Wynton talks next about race and music at about 30 minutes.


Joe, I dropped the needle where you said, and I am going to have to watch the whole thing now. You've ruined my productivity today. er ... Thank you.

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: JerryA] #2968175
01/10/19 04:30 PM
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Speaking of drummers, if Hiromi ever hires THIS guy the whole venue might implode....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlrb7E

Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Outkaster] #2968272
01/11/19 01:19 AM
01/11/19 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: Outkaster
I like Jazz piano but her feel isn't great. I don't like contrived playing and when I see her I'm bored. I have a Latin jazz teacher versed in a lot of styles and can tell you the difference on how Oscar Peterson would play something compared to people like Bill Evans. Believe me I get an education because it's a style I am learning and really didn't grow up with. That said I can tell by watching and hearing a person if they are a better player than me technically.


Good observation and I like Jazz as well and her playing is off the charts but it all comes down to you connect with the player. She could play circles around me but something that comes from the heart and that is feeling the groove. Just doesn't connect for me but that is what music so great is that we can agree or disagree.

Last edited by bennyray; 01/11/19 04:20 AM.
Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: bennyray] #2968406
01/11/19 09:20 PM
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I lover her performances, both on youtube and just listening. I like the more fusion flavoured stuff the most, and I prefer the trio or quartet over solo piano in this case. I actually went on a 6 month Hiromi binge when I first heard her. I was positively addicted!
She is so beyond my playing I cannot even comprehend it, but I do connect and love it!
I don't always love her synth sound choices, and I would love to hear more nord/rhodes stuff from her, but overall she is one of my favourites.

I don't really care how big of a kit her drummer chooses...I'm pretty ok with people using the tools they like best. I mean the trio is pretty excessive musically, so a big kit and a 6 string bass don't seem all that out of context for me.


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Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Shutoku] #2968424
01/12/19 12:03 AM
01/12/19 12:03 AM
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I was just searching "Hiromi Blues" on youtube and this slow tempo gospel blues number came up...slow being only the left hand. The right hand often blazes 32nd notes galore. It gets pretty extreme as expected. I got my piano lesson tonight.




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