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#2967990 - 01/09/19 01:06 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Adan]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 6026
Thanks, Adan, I appreciate that. I don't buy her stuff either or go to her shows. I just like watching her on youtube when she does her karate on the keys, it's amusing and entertaining form a piano chops perspective. And she has some devices in her left hand (tresillo stride) that I have adopted, for which I am thankful.

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#2967997 - 01/09/19 01:33 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 20079
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
I just watched this yesterday. Jump to about 28 or so minutes in when Nicolas Payton talks about "BAM" vs. jazz and all that, then Wynton talks next about race and music at about 30 minutes. If he's a racist I'm a frakkin' slaveowner.

Jazz Congress Day 1, Session 1: Jazz, Swing, Race and Culture


Joe, Man oh Man was I wrong about Wynton... I agree with you... But am I a total idiot, or has Wynton massively matured since he was a younger man?
I've wondered that myself. However, all the negative stuff I have heard about him was always second- or third-hand. It's possible things were taken out of context. All that matters to me now is that I dig him today and if he said dumb stuff in the past, he's moved on so I will too.

As far as Hiromi, Jazz+ makes good points about "stealing" from artists you may not even like. Think about how advanced that is. Most of us are trying to steal stuff we're moved by. That's cool, but when some method or technique can be stolen when it doesn't move you, you will probably make it move you when you play it. cool

Also, I never dug her until I saw the video Keyboard posted where she talked to the interviewer (Robbie or Jon, I think) about her latest album at the time, Move. That performance was killer, JMO, and the album moved me similarly. I haven't jumped into her subsequent stuff like that, but I haven't given it quite the listen, either.

Oh, here's the video. (The Yamaha sounds amazing too.)
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#2968001 - 01/09/19 02:05 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Joe Muscara]
MathOfInsects Offline
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Registered: 02/04/15
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Loc: California
Quote:
I've wondered that myself. However, all the negative stuff I have heard about him was always second- or third-hand. It's possible things were taken out of context. All that matters to me now is that I dig him today and if he said dumb stuff in the past, he's moved on so I will too.


I really wish I hadn’t sent us there. I would encourage anyone really interested in where some of the perspective about Marsalis regarding racism and sexism comes from, to read Gene Lees’ ‘Cats of Any Color.’ I am all too aware that this is not the best board for this kind of topic, as some of these very aggressive responses demonstrate, and want to move on if possible....
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#2968019 - 01/09/19 03:29 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: simajanpa]
JoJoB3 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/04/13
Posts: 343
Originally Posted By: simajanpa
[quote=JoJoB3]What a fantastic drum kit to bring to the piano trio!

It appears to be Simon Phillips, I've not seen him play this style before. But then again, I've haven't looked either.
Only seen him with TOTO.

Paul


Regardless, imo wrong kit for this instrumentation (I mean REALLY wrong, to the point of distraction).

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#2968035 - 01/09/19 04:41 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: JoJoB3]
Bobby Simons Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/28/17
Posts: 576
Loc: Northport, L.I., NY
Would you prefer her with Steve Smith?

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#2968050 - 01/09/19 05:47 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Bobby Simons]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 6026
I think Simon takes big solos on their other up beat fusion tunes in their shows. I wouldn't expect him to remove part of his kit just for looks on one tune.


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#2968051 - 01/09/19 05:50 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: davedoerfler]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 6026
Dana is that you?

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#2968052 - 01/09/19 05:57 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Jazz+]
MathOfInsects Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 3710
Loc: California
Ohhhhhhh.

Yes, it is.
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#2968054 - 01/09/19 06:09 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Jazz+]
Mark Zeger Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 5389
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
Dana is that you?

There is no Dana. Only Zuul.

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#2968057 - 01/09/19 06:28 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: JoJoB3]
Zalman Stern Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/18
Posts: 107
Originally Posted By: JoJoB3
Originally Posted By: simajanpa
[quote=JoJoB3]What a fantastic drum kit to bring to the piano trio!

It appears to be Simon Phillips, I've not seen him play this style before. But then again, I've haven't looked either.
Only seen him with TOTO.

Paul


Regardless, imo wrong kit for this instrumentation (I mean REALLY wrong, to the point of distraction).


It's essentially the same kit he uses for his solo gigs. As in it looks almost identical to what he had as a headliner last time I saw him. It isn't clear whether JoJoB3 is objecting to the way the kit looks or implying that Simon is overplaying the gig. The comment seems a bit off as there can be any number of reasons for using a particular kit on a given gig and if the drums are overbearing on a given song, that doesn't have as much to do with the kit so much as the player. (Or even the mix on the video.)

We're talking about three world class players playing well here. Taste is taste and not to be disputed. It ain't my absolute favorite jam of the moment, but claims that this is somehow not competent are totally out to lunch.

-Z-


Edited by Zalman Stern (01/09/19 06:47 PM)

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#2968071 - 01/09/19 09:05 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Zalman Stern]
Reezekeys Offline
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Registered: 02/07/11
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Loc: NYC area
It might be the same kit he brings to ALL his gigs. Here he is with Bill Evans, this past October - looks like the same kit, if not the same exact drums (the finish looks different from the Hiromi clip, but that one is a few years older).

Maybe he simply considers that kit his "instrument", and it's his "voice" irregardless of the musical genre of the gig. Unlike a drummer that might have a few different types of kits depending on the style of music being played.



And the following tune, in my opinion, with its more straight-eight feel, suits the two guys' style (and maybe the sound of Simon's drums) better than the, well, cornier (I know I'm gonna get in trouble for this!) "jazzy" licks she does on the video from the top of this thread. I like this track MUCH more:


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#2968083 - 01/10/19 01:50 AM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Adan]
chigson Offline
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Registered: 02/08/18
Posts: 77
Loc: Ukraine
I am surprised to see there is a lot of talk about like/dislike of Hiromi. I thought she is more appealing to public in general.

Although, sure everyone will dig her 2010's solo performance in Marciac!



Fun fact, AFAIR there is Oscar Peterson somewhere in the audience, and she plays something for him in the middle.

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#2968099 - 01/10/19 05:12 AM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Outkaster Offline
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Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 6362
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
I don't care for her feel, that's my take. I am sure she is a nice person and everything. Something seems unnatural about it. I get her appeal believe me. I can't put my finger on it but it seems contrived?


You are a very different sort of person than Hiromi... and when you say she sounds contrived, I am guessing I know what you mean. Let me take a stab in the dark.
You can hear her thoughts as she plays and you believe you can sense these "thoughts" were practised hard and long, far from the bandstand. In other words she is not spontaneous and emotional enough for you.
But problem with this hunch is the SOME PEOPLE can actually weep at her performance!
I just think we need to work on having a tolerant and open mind about those who do not touch us on a deep level.

The deepest idea, I have already said at the K Corner before... some musicians play more from ego than others. The highest music is not from ego. Not from thinking or pre-thinking at home.
Which is a topic for debate.
I read a book long ago, by Andrew White the 3rd, he had transcribed "all" of Bird and Coltrane and could play very well himself, having played with Elvin Jones!
In his short book he claimed Coltrane was not a genius!!
I know what he thinks he means.. I DO hear the connection between what Trane practices voraciously and his performances... not unlike Hiromi. These are two virtuosi.
So we have to be very very open, tolerant and patient in the hope that SOMEDAY we will " get what all the fuss is about" with these type of players.

It took me 50 years to finally get, Art Tatum.
You cannot force it, it comes when it comes, if it comes.

Back to Hiromi and Trane: So far Hiromi has not touched me emotionally , but Trane has made me weep in a deep way. I do know why he is accused of not being a genius,, I sort of hear the practised lines in Coltrane, just as you hear the pre practised lines in Hiromi.. BUT Trane DOES get very deep, and if you are distracted by what you think you hear in Trane,,, his "pre practising", it may block your apprehending his relentless egoless search for truth. Players even on this level do not always nail it, do not always get that incredible flow. So if we go by our "in five seconds, I know" first impression and shut that artist down, we block a chance to hear these people when they do strike the mother lode of inspiration.
Just very occasionally listen to various tracks of an artist ( Hiromi ) over a period of many years... you may someday be pleasantly surprised .
This happened to me with Art Tatum, Pat Metheny, both of whom I thought were too technical. Nope, the problem was I was not receptive.
Louis Armstrong was corny to me for decades, until one day he was not!


There is nothing to get. I can tell in the first few minutes if someone has it. I have a lot less education then people on this board. A lot of you can play better then me. Trust me, I can tell who can really play and who plays at it. She comes from a militaristic/feudal based culture and it kind of comes out in her playing also. I know from being the martial arts for 40 years. It's not a matter of being open to her either or not receptive. Things to me are either are or aren't with music. That might seem like black and white thinking but its true. It's not personal, or weather she is Asian or a woman. I think she has very good technical skills but there are at least ten other people I would rather listen to. Sorry Tee but there is an element of ego in everyone musically, there has to be. It just depends on your motivation for playing music. I know one thing hero worshiping players is a very dangerous thing for a musician and can really be counter productive.


Edited by Outkaster (01/10/19 05:24 AM)
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#2968108 - 01/10/19 06:04 AM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Outkaster]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7258
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Outcaster- New York State martial arts reggae band leader man!
Ok you say ego is present unanimously... that is not an arguable point.
I would say, the issue is, a matter of degree. the degree of thinking, the degree of ego ( thinking and ego in a performance are closely allied ) is the issue I suppose.
But all I know is my teacher studied with Oscar P and played and in effect studied with Dizzy Gillespie for 2 decades. He said, that Dizzy said that music invites us in... we have to leave the ego behind to get to that invitation.
So, sure there has to be some ego.. but relatively little.

On the topic of ego. I am a defender of the brash mouthy genius and disliked Buddy Rich.
i feel his ego... but players that are half of him, do they not have ego too? Heck yes.
Buddy more than backs up his ways, with a great gift.
To me, difficult as it might be, it is a privilege to play with him.
I know a few guys who did, and they never bitched about him breaking their gonads.
Music is as deep as humanity is varied.
I would remind you of Shakespeare "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
And one of my heroes Herbie Hancock uses that phrase "open" or open ears.

Might you explain what hero worship means to you?



Edited by I-missRichardTee (01/10/19 06:06 AM)
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#2968109 - 01/10/19 06:06 AM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Outkaster Offline
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Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 6362
Loc: Rochester, NY
I agree completely with you. Especially about Buddy Rich. He was something else.
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#2968113 - 01/10/19 06:20 AM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Mark Zeger]
JerryA Offline
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Registered: 08/02/00
Posts: 7252
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
Some KC members know my Wynton story. Maybe I’ll share it over coffee someday.

Who wants coffee?


I wanna hear the story. I haven't seen you in since we chatted at the Korg shindig in NYC about ten years ago. Enjoyed it. Next time I'm up your way ... thu

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#2968115 - 01/10/19 06:27 AM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Joe Muscara]
JerryA Offline
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Registered: 08/02/00
Posts: 7252
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
I just watched this yesterday. Jump to about 28 or so minutes in when Nicolas Payton talks about "BAM" vs. jazz and all that, then Wynton talks next about race and music at about 30 minutes.


Joe, I dropped the needle where you said, and I am going to have to watch the whole thing now. You've ruined my productivity today. er ... Thank you.

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#2968175 - 01/10/19 11:30 AM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: JerryA]
area51recording Offline
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Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 2017
Loc: Newburgh,IN
Speaking of drummers, if Hiromi ever hires THIS guy the whole venue might implode....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlrb7E

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#2968272 - 01/10/19 08:19 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Outkaster]
bennyray Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 970
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
I like Jazz piano but her feel isn't great. I don't like contrived playing and when I see her I'm bored. I have a Latin jazz teacher versed in a lot of styles and can tell you the difference on how Oscar Peterson would play something compared to people like Bill Evans. Believe me I get an education because it's a style I am learning and really didn't grow up with. That said I can tell by watching and hearing a person if they are a better player than me technically.


Good observation and I like Jazz as well and her playing is off the charts but it all comes down to you connect with the player. She could play circles around me but something that comes from the heart and that is feeling the groove. Just doesn't connect for me but that is what music so great is that we can agree or disagree.


Edited by bennyray (01/10/19 11:20 PM)
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#2968406 - 01/11/19 04:20 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: bennyray]
Shutoku Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 581
Loc: BC Canada
I lover her performances, both on youtube and just listening. I like the more fusion flavoured stuff the most, and I prefer the trio or quartet over solo piano in this case. I actually went on a 6 month Hiromi binge when I first heard her. I was positively addicted!
She is so beyond my playing I cannot even comprehend it, but I do connect and love it!
I don't always love her synth sound choices, and I would love to hear more nord/rhodes stuff from her, but overall she is one of my favourites.

I don't really care how big of a kit her drummer chooses...I'm pretty ok with people using the tools they like best. I mean the trio is pretty excessive musically, so a big kit and a 6 string bass don't seem all that out of context for me.
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#2968424 - 01/11/19 07:03 PM Re: Hiromi unleashes her monster chops, again [Re: Shutoku]
Jazz+ Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 6026
I was just searching "Hiromi Blues" on youtube and this slow tempo gospel blues number came up...slow being only the left hand. The right hand often blazes 32nd notes galore. It gets pretty extreme as expected. I got my piano lesson tonight.




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