Yamaha MODX

[nursers]

A shameful admission from me: one (of a few reasons) I went with the MODX7 was the last three digits in its name

[MotiDave]

Sorry if this was asked before, but is the action on the MODX-6 the same as the MODX-7?

According to Yamaha it is. Users will get various personal impressions - I'm not sure I'd rely on a perceived difference as being accurate but I only have a 7, can't compare to 6.

 

Ok thanks so much for the quick response! Just pulled the trigger on the MODX7. Should be here next week.

I love my MODX7, not that that guarantees you a thing of course. Im not as discerning (or picky) on key feel as many here at KC. Its a value-line all purpose synth - its tremendous value in its price range imo.

[KeyMoe]

Sorry if this was asked before, but is the action on the MODX-6 the same as the MODX-7?

According to Yamaha it is. Users will get various personal impressions - I'm not sure I'd rely on a perceived difference as being accurate but I only have a 7, can't compare to 6.

 

Thanks again. Will let you know next week.

[lsj]

agree, great keyboard

[lsj]

just some information. yamaha's guru Bad Mister will be posting information on different procedures for the MODX. the posts appear on Yamahsynthforum.com for the next few weeks. every few days a new subject will be presented. another site I ran across was yamahamusicians.com check them out....Larry

[lsj]

made a mistake the website is yamahasynth.com

[Fleer]

These guys did a part 2 of their comparison:

[zephonic]

So this is sort of weird...

 

As I have mentioned before, the MODX8 (and MX88) output level is considerably lower than that of my other boards.

 

Bumping the MODX' output up by +6dB helps when using it live, but in the studio it distorts the inputs of my interface.

 

Frankly, I don't really need the extra dB's in the studio, so I can just toggle the +6dB on/off as needed, but I want to understand why this is?

 

The Fantom, Nord, and Krome don't have this discrepancy, their levels seem consistent relative to eachother, both live and in the studio.

[Markyboard]

So this is sort of weird...

 

As I have mentioned before, the MODX8 (and MX88) output level is considerably lower than that of my other boards.

 

Bumping the MODX' output up by +6dB helps when using it live, but in the studio it distorts the inputs of my interface.

 

Frankly, I don't really need the extra dB's in the studio, so I can just toggle the +6dB on/off as needed, but I want to understand why this is?

 

The Fantom, Nord, and Krome don't have this discrepancy, their levels seem consistent relative to eachother, both live and in the studio.

 

I was waiting for someone else to answer but apparently not. All these devices are designed differently with respect to output levels, impedance etc. How they perform with other equipment is somewhat inconsistent between manufacturers and even within product lines of a single manufacturer. In a nutshell it comes down to providing the right amount of signal (seems obvious). There's really no set rules on how to handle this although others will tell you differently. If you're distorting your audio interface than yeah, switch the gain back to the lower setting. If you want some really good technical info you can read about it here.

[MotiDave]

Re Distortion - here is my experience. I also bumped up to +6 as the original output is quite low.

 

I transferred all of my performances from XF and MOXF. What I found was many of them are distorting with individual parts bumping into redline signal level. now, confession - i've previously drove signal levels high within each part volume.

 

I systematically went thru every PErformance and dropped every volume by 5. That fixed 95%, there were a few that still sound to be clipping slightly. i tweaked further.

 

I found APs were a large percent of culprits. not sure why ...

 

edit note: I would think the individual part "redlining" is way upstream of the +6 db overall output signal boost, which is more akin to overall volume control. I can't theorize a connection between the two.

[Markyboard]

 

edit note: I would think the individual part "redlining" is way upstream of the +6 db overall output signal boost, which is more akin to overall volume control. I can't theorize a connection between the two.

 

That's all done in the digital domain creating the composite digital representation of the waveform. This is then sent to a Digitalt to Analog Converter. I suspect there is an output amplifier stage following the DAC affecting all performances by the master volume level and this additional output gain.

[MotiDave]

 

edit note: I would think the individual part "redlining" is way upstream of the +6 db overall output signal boost, which is more akin to overall volume control. I can't theorize a connection between the two.

 

That's all done in the digital domain creating the composite digital representation of the waveform. This is then sent to a Digitalt to Analog Converter. I suspect there is an output amplifier stage following the DAC affecting all performances by the master volume level and this additional output gain.

 

i'll pretend i understood all of that and say yes, thats what I said

[zephonic]

If you want some really good technical info you can read about it here.

 

Mark, thanks for that link, useful.

 

 

Re Distortion - here is my experience. I also bumped up to +6 as the original output is quite low.

 

I transferred all of my performances from XF and MOXF. What I found was many of them are distorting with individual parts bumping into redline signal level. now, confession - i've previously drove signal levels high within each part volume.

 

I systematically went thru every PErformance and dropped every volume by 5. That fixed 95%, there were a few that still sound to be clipping slightly. i tweaked further.

 

I found APs were a large percent of culprits. not sure why ...

 

edit note: I would think the individual part "redlining" is way upstream of the +6 db overall output signal boost, which is more akin to overall volume control. I can't theorize a connection between the two.

 

 

Dave, thank you. Your post got me thinking the distortion could be internal rather than external. Like you said, dialing it down just a bit fixed most of it. I also found the AP's were the most affected by distortion.

 

 

I never really considered that the distortion could be internal, but I guess if they are on fixed-point you eventually run out of bits to fill, right? I wonder if moving to 32-bit floating point would ameliorate or even fix this?

 

Tomorrow on the gig I'm gonna see if the reduced internal levels and the +6dB output have finally sorted my volume issues.

 

 

Anyway, after 2+ months I'm beginning to hit my stride with the MODX. This thing does sound awesome. Really mature, somehow, makes the Krome sound like a toy. The presets don't need much tweaking, it is super-easy to operate for the most part, and you can't beat the schlep-factor.

 

But the volume knob situation is perplexing. I still don't know how they got that so wrong. I mean, ALL other Motif/Montage/MOXF/MM/MX products got it right, why on Earth did they change it? It is really cumbersome when you have another keyboard on top.

 

However, it has got me thinking maybe I need to start gigging with just one board again.

[motomike1961]

What does Yamaha say about this output level/distortion issue?

 

Quite frankly if I purchased a new board and had to fiddling with the volume/output levels of each performance in Yamaha language, I would send the board back.

 

I never had to do anything like this on my Grandstage, MP7se or CP4.

 

Am I off base here?

 

Mike

[ElmerJFudd]

What does Yamaha say about this output level/distortion issue?

 

Quite frankly if I purchased a new board and had to fiddling with the volume/output levels of each performance in Yamaha language, I would send the board back.

 

I never had to do anything like this on my Grandstage, MP7se or CP4.

 

Am I off base here?

 

Mike

 

Arent we talking about user transferred patches from previous generation Motifs that need to be tweaked? Are the patches that Yamaha includes or have prepped for inclusion exhibiting the issue?

[lsj]

it is just the transferred patches. when I first sat down at my MODX, the first thing I did was adjust the velocity of the keyboard to my liking, not send it back. so much complaining about keyboard touch, needs more ram, too heavy, too flimsy(some people want a keyboard built like a tank made with iron, but only weighing 10 pounds). me, the most important things are how it sounds and price. I am a Hammond player, which needs a totally different style of touch, I adapt my playing style to whatever keybed I am playing....Larry

[zephonic]

Let me clarify about the distortion, so it doesn't look like I'm slandering the MODX for no reason.

 

When I first got the board, the output levels were generally low, and on the first gig it totally got lost in the mix. The +6dB helped but not enough, and the +12dB was too much.

 

I realized a lot of performances had their levels set at much lower than max (i.e. 62 out of 127 etc.) so I figured if I crank their levels to max and keep the output bump at +6dB I should be good.

 

This worked in the sense that it solved my loudness problem, but in the studio I now noticed the distortion on some patches, in particular the AP's and some more powerful synth sounds.

I thought the output was too hot, but taking the +6dB off didn't solve the problem. I bought new cables and contemplated buying a new audio interface, until I read MotiDave's post. Last night I dialed back the performance volume of the distorting patches, cranked it back up to +6dB and it looks like we're good.

 

So no, out of the box there is no distortion on the MODX.

 

[burningbusch]

A few observations about the Montage/MODX after I've been programming for the last couple of months.

 

Let me compare it with the Kronos, which I know well. Talking now about working within the Program structure. With the Kronos, everything is pretty much at max. The amp section, by default, is maxed. So too are the output(s) of the filter(s). If you use an EQ, there is an option to lower the output gain (in the case where you raise a band into distortion) but no way to raise it above 0db. In fact, the Kronos has so few options for raising gain that often your only recourse is to employ the compressor trick where you insert a compressor, set the ratio to 1:1 and then raise the output gain. It's relatively hard to drive the Kronos into distortion though it can be done with the amp sims, for example.

 

In contrast, the Montage/MODX offers many opportunities to increase gain within the Performance.

 

Within the Element (I'll leave out the obvious things like amp gain):

- The output of the filter is 230 by default but can be increased to 255.

- The output of the element (Element EQ) can be boosted by 6/12/18db.

 

In the Common section for the Part:

- The Output level (post-EQ) can be raised by as much as 12db.

- Many FXs allow the boosting of gain. For example, the VCM EQ 501 allows +/-12db.

 

You, of course, have the overall volume of the Performance and this could very well need to be lowered from 127 if the internal output stages of the Elements/Parts are boosted too much. In short, Yamaha provides many places where gain can be increased and it becomes much more of a balancing act than with keyboards like the Kronos. I personally welcome it, though it's a bit more work.

 

Regarding the +6/12db boost at the Main Outputs, you can balance that with the setting at Utility-->Settings-->Sound-->Volume. So if you're getting distortion at +6db, try lowing that volume setting a bit. It can get you somewhere in between 0 and +6db. I agree that the APs are quite hot and kind of throw off the balance of the other instruments. Easier to pull them down a bit than to try to bring everything else up.

 

Busch.

 

 

[nursers]

A few observations about the Montage/MODX after I've been programming for the last couple of months.

 

Let me compare it with the Kronos, which I know well. Talking now about working within the Program structure. With the Kronos, everything is pretty much at max. The amp section, by default, is maxed. So too are the output(s) of the filter(s). If you use an EQ, there is an option to lower the output gain (in the case where you raise a band into distortion) but no way to raise it above 0db. In fact, the Kronos has so few options for raising gain that often your only recourse is to employ the compressor trick where you insert a compressor, set the ratio to 1:1 and then raise the output gain. It's relatively hard to drive the Kronos into distortion though it can be done with the amp sims, for example.

 

In contrast, the Montage/MODX offers many opportunities to increase gain within the Performance.

 

Within the Element (I'll leave out the obvious things like amp gain):

- The output of the filter is 230 by default but can be increased to 255.

- The output of the element (Element EQ) can be boosted by 6/12/18db.

 

In the Common section for the Part:

- The Output level (post-EQ) can be raised by as much as 12db.

- Many FXs allow the boosting of gain. For example, the VCM EQ 501 allows +/-12db.

 

You, of course, have the overall volume of the Performance and this could very well need to be lowered from 127 if the internal output stages of the Elements/Parts are boosted too much. In short, Yamaha provides many places where gain can be increased and it becomes much more of a balancing act than with keyboards like the Kronos. I personally welcome it, though it's a bit more work.

 

Regarding the +6/12db boost at the Main Outputs, you can balance that with the setting at Utility-->Settings-->Sound-->Volume. So if you're getting distortion at +6db, try lowing that volume setting a bit. It can get you somewhere in between 0 and +6db. I agree that the APs are quite hot and kind of throw off the balance of the other instruments. Easier to pull them down a bit than to try to bring everything else up.

 

Busch.

 

 

Superb - thank you

[mcpepe]

I have one question about the Yamaha MODX8 before buying.

 

I want to use it in my studio desk, a Zaor Miza Z:

https://zaorstudiofurniture.com/index.php?page=mizaz

 

The available free height for the keyboard is exactly 16.0cm looking at the official specifications. I have measured it and it really is 16.0cm.

 

The Yamaha MODX8 is also 16.0cm height, according to the Yamaha web.

 

Do you think I will have problems to insert the MODX8 in my desk? It's really 16,0 height? with or without the little rubber things bellow the keyboard?

 

Thanks for the help!

[Markyboard]

If the MODX8 is exactly 16cm I would say no. The spec shows Height 160mm (6-1/16"). Those inches convert to 15.4cm so you may be OK - depends which one is correct. Best to measure it yourself and don't forget to include the knobs/wheels. Also there may be rubber/plastic feet you can remove.

 

Edit - looks like it does have short feet on it.

[niacin]

Recently replaced my MX88 with a MODX8, first gig last night, fill in with a band playing 80s to current pop. For some years I've been using an Integra for all but B3 sounds.

 

Given the concerns about the output I have to say I had no issues. into a Yamaha DBR-10 and patched out the back into the desk. DBR-10 set at 12:00, MODX8 at 3:00. Yeh it's not as hot as my Integra, but there's plenty there. I did look at the internal piano patch volumes and there at around 64, compared to some strings and synths at 127, so yeh if you're importing patches you may have gain issues. The final gain stage and effects make a big difference. Given the gain stage options mentioned by Busch I will also mention that I needed the manual on more than one occasion, in contrast to the Integra whose manual I've yet to crack. The interface is much improved over the Motif series.

 

Saved 16 performances, mostly single sounds or splits to a setlist, made my life easy on stage cause the band leader just calls tunes at will from a shortlist of around 50 (with some random tunes thrown in to make sure I'm paying attention, lol). Although I've previously found Roland/Korg sounds to be more evenly balanced when it comes to levels than Yamaha which have tended to be all over the shop, despite concerns using cans that led me to have everything on a volume pedal in case, live they were actually pretty good.

 

Piano, EP, strings, synths, even brass for Uptown Funk sounded good. Plenty of grins from other band members playing some of the signature keys parts. Hammond stuff is useable due to an improved Leslie sim which is less squirrelly than in the past, and the keyboard lends itself reasonably well to some Hammond techniques. The gig was recorded from the desk so it'll be interesting to hear it all back, but I was pretty pleased. I love the Integra for some sounds (some of the bass patches are gold for those of us playing LH bass), but the MODX8 pianos and EPs, which I spent maybe 2/3 of the night on, made me much happier.

 

Volume knob is not well placed for on the fly adjustments (which I needed for the odd synth solo).

 

Overall very happy, definitely a keeper, probably for a long time given I'm getting to old to be carrying around 20kg+ boards.

 

[zephonic]

I hate myself.

 

Last Friday I rushed to the gig and forgot to unplug the USB flash drive from the MODX8 before carrying it around in the bag. Sure enough, I damaged the USB port.

 

Yamaha service center locator lists Advanced Musical Electronics as the nearest repair center, but my previous experience with them wasn't great.

 

I guess I'll never forget to check for flash drives ever again.

[EscapeRocks]

Low Profile Thumb Drives will become your friend

 

[cassdad]

Zephonic: FWIW, I use Paul Morte Technical Services, (authorized Yamaha servicer), 946 N. Main Street, Orange, CA, (714) 532-9540, although I realize they are farther for you.

[Swithin]

Ah, don't hate yourself, accidents can always happen... Perhaps keyboard manufacturers could do something about this though: either make sure the USB ports are sturdy enough or provide 3-4 USB ports (so if you damage one, you can still get full use out of the keyboard). Computers have several USB ports - why shouldn't keyboards?

[niacin]

or they could have a covered slot like a few of the Roland boards back as far as the Juno Stage.

 

Update to my post above, having received the live recording from the gig: sounds are well balanced with very little tweaking of levels, all mono and they sound just fine, piano sounds great even mono, in a band context, Hammond even better than I thought at the time (again in the context of a 5-piece pop band). Great board.

[Charleston]

A huge bright lanyard can help.

[zephonic]

Zephonic: FWIW, I use Paul Morte Technical Services, (authorized Yamaha servicer), 946 N. Main Street, Orange, CA, (714) 532-9540, although I realize they are farther for you.

 

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check them out.

 

Perhaps keyboard manufacturers could do something about this though: either make sure the USB ports are sturdy enough or provide 3-4 USB ports (so if you damage one, you can still get full use out of the keyboard). Computers have several USB ports - why shouldn't keyboards?

 

I have had the same thought, why can't keyboards double as USB hubs? Especially with the dearth of connectors on modern MacBooks, it would come in very handy.

 

or they could have a covered slot like a few of the Roland boards back as far as the Juno Stage.

 

Yes, my Jupiter 50 had that, too. Perfect solution.

[Fleer]

Sad to hear, zephonic, hope you get it solved.