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#2979839 - 03/12/19 09:58 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
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Interesting that #2 is basically using what I told you. The reason dropping down 3 frets gives a happy sounds is that you switch from the Minor scale to the Major scale (Look...it's a mode!!!!). This is getting into what is known as "Relative Minors". Every major scale has a relative minor counterpart, which uses the same notes. This relative minor scale is the Aeolian mode of the major scale.
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#2979845 - 03/12/19 10:33 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
d / halfnote Offline
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Originally Posted By: A String
The relative minor scale is the Aeolian mode of the major scale.

Or, put another way, it's the scale that starts on the 6th, 4 semitones down.

Originally Posted By: Music Fusion
1. There is a whole world to be discovered on the high E, B and G strings of a guitar. There are some shapes that can be played down there, that would be very familiar, that can be useful in the following ways:

a) as another way of playing chords, that emphasizes the higher sounding end.
b) typically used in funk, disco and modern music to produce some pretty nifty progressions/sounds.
c) sonically, as an alternative to playing a full chord, whose lower end, will sometimes collide- compete sonically, with a bass guitar. This is particularly important in recording music where you want to carve out frequencies positionally within the sonic landscape. Where sonic overlaps and collisions occur, it muddies the clarity of certain instruments. Thus, using the higher register as an alternative, with a bass guitar looking after the lower foundation, is often a good mix. Again, more important in recording although there are also benefits in playing live.

Excellent observation & the basis for what separates cats (& kitties) that can play well in various band & recording situations from those who keep bumping into each other.
There's a reason that not all drums have the same tone ! grin

Originally Posted By: Music Fusion
2. The Penatatonic scale, and itís various positions along the neck is probably the biggest bang for your time spent, in terms of its immediate usefulness in blues and rock. Once the various positions of the pentatonic are learned, it can easily be applied to blues music or rock. A neat little trick occurs when you move the position 3 frets back. When doing so, you switch from a bluesy sounding solo, to a happy sounding solo simply by moving the position back three frets, while remaining in key.

This kinda goes back to modes, in a way.
In the same way the whole schmear's just shifting 1 basic idea around into diff contexts, that's what happens w/ the 2 main forms of the pentatonic...yer just making a choice of M or min & adding whatever color notes ya need.

----------------------------------
Hey, Chas, what'd yer pal think of that email ?
Now mebbe you get to explain some stuff to help someone else advance !
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#2979864 - 03/12/19 12:31 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote]
Music Fusion Offline
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Hi Craig and d

I do believe in paying it forwards, so I plan to share whatever I've learned with others. So thanks for being patient with me. In the end, it paid off- for me at least ;-)

Recording is my thing and I have been doing since I was 16 years old using two parallel cassette recorders to multi track. Then I graduated to a Fostex 4 track. Back in the day, that was special.

Then of course, everything went digital and now I record using Logic X, after spending a decade with Pro Tools. . I've been very blessed to be able to write on my own and with a songwriting partner in the U.S. I've had a few little things used in American Television shows. My partner has had raving success, getting things placed on CNN, Saturday Night Live, and probably 30 other programs you'd immediately recognize.

It's very difficult making a living in the music business because there isn't much of a business left. With the mp3 transformation, people began downloading music for free even though in many cases copyright was trampled on.

Now streaming services have managed to be the thing, while paying writers next to nothing. It's near criminal my view.

Add the fact that software has democratized music, has created another monster. In days of old, you had to know how to play to write. Songs usually came from the heart. Now, software allows almost anyone to arrange chords, make loops and record vocals without necessarily knowing much about music. I'm not saying all of that is bad, but a lot of it ends up sounding like manufactured music that is not very melodic and has a hollow soul.


Edited by Music Fusion (03/12/19 12:34 PM)

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#2979865 - 03/12/19 12:36 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
d / halfnote Offline
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Coolacious, Chas !

As far as the profitability of Net mktg, that's something that one cay turn around in a few ways.

Check yer PMs for a ms.

Hey---just noticed where you live----how close are you & A String (or maybe Blues Ape) ?
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#2979874 - 03/12/19 01:41 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote]
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He's about 20 mins from me, tops. He is also in an area that had a very good band scene. Well worth getting out there and playing!
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#2979879 - 03/12/19 04:24 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String]
d / halfnote Offline
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Have you two met ?
I'm kinda wondering if in person lessons might advance more quickly than the triangulated, post & wait Q&A here...
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#2979892 - 03/12/19 05:53 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote]
Music Fusion Offline
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Craig...I thought you used to live around Burlington but then moved out to the states? I must be mistaken. Where are you?

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#2979971 - 03/13/19 11:59 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
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Still in Burlington. However, I don't do lessons anymore. I used to teach at Lakeshore Music/Long and McQuade's, many years back, but just have too much going on, nowadays.
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#2979977 - 03/13/19 12:11 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String]
d / halfnote Offline
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Ahem, time to start mktg those lessons as vids then, eh ?
This thread is a demonstration of their potential worth to both students & yerself, 'String !
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#2979979 - 03/13/19 12:27 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote]
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lol. Not a bad idea, d. Been thinking about it for a while now.
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#2980035 - 03/13/19 07:38 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String]
Music Fusion Offline
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Well, if ever you need some input from a learner's perspective......

actually, a video approach may be good, as it is often much easier to grasp. There are a lot of people out there with courses, videos and the like. But there are not many who can really deliver with clarity.

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#2980864 - 03/19/19 07:08 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
Music Fusion Offline
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Although I don't claim to be a pro, I think I am now more comfortable with modes. I am also able to play in any mode, up and down the neck, simply by have the light click on with something that Craig had said- so thanks for that.

I am back to practicing the pentatonic so that I don't forget that. Below is a track that I solo ed to using the pentatonic scale. It's a bit sloppy at times, but it was 100% pure feel, so i'm very happy with some of the licks as they just came out- they weren't contrived- nor did I do any retakes. d- you'd be proud ;-)

You may want to listen to this while doing other stuff, as it is lengthy but some of the stuff may be worth hearing.Again, i could not have done any of this without your help here,,,,so thanks again!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B3agSr-U6isdwcjJDUHd6VaVBZQSEao-/view?usp=sharing

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#2980947 - 03/20/19 08:02 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
Music Fusion Offline
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By the way, I was into playing, that at the end, I didn't realize that the music ran out lol

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#2980977 - 03/20/19 10:31 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
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fantastic! Keep it up!
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#2980979 - 03/20/19 10:37 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String]
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Nothing like that feeling of getting lost in the music. Just letting the solo take you away.
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#2980984 - 03/20/19 11:14 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String]
d / halfnote Offline
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Actually the best feeling
IMF
is not
gettng lost
N D music
but
Rather
Finding
yerserself
N <D
the music.

BTW
, F
I'venot made
the
DAMN
point




































GO@!
get a grip &
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#2980998 - 03/20/19 02:09 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote]
Music Fusion Offline
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Thank-you. I'm no star, but I have come a long way since I first posted on this thread- thanks to you folks.

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#2981553 - 03/24/19 09:09 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
Music Fusion Offline
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This is becoming more interesting as I go. I am now trying to match modes to "feelings" or colours. So I have been playing Phrygian over Arabic music. Very neat. Now I have stumbled across some Japanese scales which i am immersed in. I'm really liking there exotic scales. They bring a whole different approach to things.

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#2981674 - 03/25/19 07:45 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
Music Fusion Offline
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Here's an example of a Japanese scale i am playing with, Played over a Japanese backing track, it sounds very Japanese. But played over a heavy metal track (such as this one), it sounds intriguing. (I made a few minor mistakes, but the idea is there. Also, I could not figure out how to record my guitar with effects on Band in aBox, so it sounds pretty bare).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NY-06ZM15F79pVxPyUahvyFW9E0ImDK8/view?usp=sharing

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#2981681 - 03/25/19 08:46 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
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Nice! Yeah, a lot of metal players dabble in exotic scales. Can really add some unique sounds. Here is a great article on some of the more common ones:
https://www.guitarworld.com/lessons/exotic-scales-lesson-around-world-seven-scales-tab
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#2981702 - 03/25/19 12:08 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String]
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kinda mashT up....
A Japanese scale over some Japanese music sounds Japanese....
..........................
Are you surprised ?!!!!!!!!

Get passed what music "sounds like" & get to what music is .
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#2981717 - 03/25/19 03:11 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote]
Music Fusion Offline
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Thanks Craig. I will read that

d..of course I am not surprised that a Japanese scale over a Japanese backing track, sounds Japanese. What I was surprised to learn was its applicability to metal. Part of the never ending learning journey

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#2982000 - 03/27/19 10:58 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
d / halfnote Offline
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Well, there ya go, Chas, all music has some similarities.
After all, it's just sounds that ppl use to express emotions or ideas.

As we've discussed before sometimes these expressions can be codified (as w/ modes) but they also vary tremendously in various cultures around the world.

In this case, I'd say there's a great deal that Japanese culture(s) ---at least the modern forms---have in common w/ other music around the world...they love all sorts of American music there from Bluegrass to Rap.
Facetiously I'd also suggest that no place would have a greater affinity for metal music than The Land Of Godzilla !

BTW, can you cue us in on what music specifically is involved here ?
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#2982215 - 03/28/19 09:25 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote]
Music Fusion Offline
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Hi d

When I was learning some of the Japanese scales (which I am still learning as there are a few of them), I went on youtube and googled scales backing tracks. I found many that were Japanese sounding. The one site that listed the scales suggested that the scale can be played over any chord with the same name. I think the site was guitarlessons365.com

So, I made a very quick backing track using Band in the Box and by accident, I used a heavy metal style. This, of course, sounding very metal. I was surprised on how well the scale fit over it.

The scales that I am looking at are the Japanese, Hirajoshi, Kumoi, Kokin Joshi and Iwato. Most of which can be played over a chord of the same name. So basically, start on the E,, if you are using an E power chord, for example.

I am also fascinated with Phrygian, which I found very useful over flamenco and arabic , eastern, and gypsy music. Adds a very mysterious colour, which is what you gentlemen, I think , we encouraging me to do. Find out what sounds the modes make over what type of harmonial context. Which is what I'm doing and is being quite an adventure.

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#2982434 - 03/29/19 01:48 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
d / halfnote Offline
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I'll look into those scales you mentioned, Chas.
Ever listen to other cultures's stuff ?
I myself have a thing for gamelan music (Indonesia).
Keep in mind though, that what sometimes sounds right to us might be dismissed by a native muso.
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#2982457 - 03/29/19 05:04 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote]
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Another group of scales to look at (And timing too) are the "Indian" scales. Some of their scales and timings are so foreign that they can be difficult at first. It should be noted that the Beatles (George Harrison in particular), spent a lot of time studying and learning Indian music.
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#2982533 - 03/30/19 12:53 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String]
Music Fusion Offline
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When I was young, I thought the only music was Led Zeppelin. I loved that band and still do, but it was Zep only. As I matured, my musical tastes continued to grow. I will listen to any music and I like all music. I can even stomach rap from time to time, although i can't see myself ever buying a rap song.

I think listening to other cultures can only expand ones musical abilities and appreciation.

Indian scales will be on my list, but I feel myself accelerating too quickly again. I'm gonna have to master the Japenses stuff before i move on, otherwise I'll forget what I've learned. But the best part is the appetite to learn. Once you have that, the rest will happen.


Edited by Music Fusion (03/30/19 12:53 PM)

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#2982603 - 03/31/19 10:03 AM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion]
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For sure! Keep in mind, this IS a life long journey. A never ending quest to keep learning and mastering, more. And don't get me wrong...that's a really good thing!
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#2983160 - 04/02/19 04:34 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String]
d / halfnote Offline
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Originally Posted By: A String
Another group of scales to look at (And timing too) are the "Indian" scales. Some of their scales and timings are so foreign that they can be difficult at first. It should be noted that the Beatles (George Harrison in particular), spent a lot of time studying and learning Indian music.


Yes, Indian music's a very deep study, although less harmonically dense than Western music or the use of modes therein.

As an aside, I always found it interesting that once he gave up on tryna be a sitar master, Harrison's guitar playing, for whatever reason(s), had become much more skillful, assured, dynamic & varied in timbre than beforehand. rawk
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#2983204 - 04/02/19 07:24 PM Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote]
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Originally Posted By: d / halfnote
Yes, Indian music's a very deep study, although less harmonically dense than Western music or the use of modes therein.


There is no vertical harmony in Indian music, & each raga is basically a mode, the equivalent of Middle Eastern & Persian maqams.
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