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Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String] #2960472 11/29/18 04:12 PM
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Craig-- that was very helpful and I am very close to "getting it". I just need to come back to what you wrote a few more times. But it is starting to click. Either that, or my brain needs oiling;-)

Thank-you, I'll report back once I have had a chance to tinker with what you wrote again.

Last edited by Music Fusion; 11/29/18 04:13 PM.
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Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion] #2960473 11/29/18 04:24 PM
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Always happy to help out. By all means keep on digging, practicing and asking questions!

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote] #2960515 11/29/18 07:49 PM
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Hi guys:

Thanks for hanging in with me.

Yesterday night, I spent over an hour listening to a tutorial by Steve Stein. I find that tapping into different sources sometimes helps me think of things differently. The bad part of that, is that it can also cause confusion when people are explaining things in different ways.

What I got from stein's tutorial is that within the C major key, as it is played throughout the neck, we already have all the modes built in. And then he talked about the key of C being made up of

1. C Maj
2. Dm
3. Em
4. Fmaj
5. G Maj
6.Am
7. B dim

He said that the 1st, 4th and 5th are always major and the 2,3 and 6 are always minor. The 7th is a diminished

This made sense to me, and it matches what you folks have been saying.

He then said the 1, 4th and 5th are the core chords of the key, while the 2, 3 and 6 are the ones that can give your solo "colour" if you choose to emphasize any one of those.

so reading the recent posts here, the following question emerged:

I understand how moving the pentatonic scale from fret to fret will change the sound of it, particular to what chords are being played underneath it- and i think i understand how those "sounds" get known as lydian, Aelian etc., but what I am not sure i understand is this:

To achieve the different modes, I thought the fingering changed. But when i read what Craig wrote, it seems that i just need ti move the pentatonic around to achieve the modes.

Is that true? If not, what have i misunderstood?

Thank-you


Last edited by Music Fusion; 11/29/18 07:51 PM.
Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion] #2960532 11/29/18 09:31 PM
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It is one way to use the static pattern to achieve the modes, yes. Moving ANY scale pattern will change it's key. Look at the super simple blues scale:

---------------------5-8----
-----------------5-8--------
-------------5-7------------
---------5-7----------------
-----5-7--------------------
-5-8------------------------

This is the Blues scale in A. You can move this scale up and down the neck and each time you do, you change the root name. So play the same pattern on the 3rd fret and it's the Blues scale in G. Play the same pattern on the 12th fret and it's the blues scale in E.

The thing is, there are only 12 notes. Those 12 notes are repeated all over the neck meaning you can figure out MANY ways to play the same scales. But, in the end, if you play any major scale, starting on a different note - in what ever pattern you are using - you will get a mode; the key it's in depends on the root note you are starting on:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1=Ionian Mode (Major)
2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2=Dorian Mode
3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3=Phrygian Mode
4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4=Lydian Mode
5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5=Mixolydian Mode
6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6=Aeolian Mode
7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7=Locrian Mode

So in C it's C Major, D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian etc. etc. BUT, if you play in a different key, you'd get other root notes so, in the key of G Major, you would get these modes:
G Major, A Dorian, B Phrygian, C Lydian, D Mixolydian, E Aeolian and F# Locrian etc. etc.

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String] #2960549 11/30/18 12:22 AM
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Hi Craig- see my comments below yours:

This is the Blues scale in A. You can move this scale up and down the neck and each time you do, you change the root name. So play the same pattern on the 3rd fret and it's the Blues scale in G. Play the same pattern on the 12th fret and it's the blues scale in E.

I am with you on this. I understand this concept and have been applying it extensively when i solo using the minor or major pentatonic.

The thing is, there are only 12 notes. Those 12 notes are repeated all over the neck meaning you can figure out MANY ways to play the same scales. But, in the end, if you play any major scale, starting on a different note - in what ever pattern you are using - you will get a mode; the key it's in depends on the root note you are starting on:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1=Ionian Mode (Major)
2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2=Dorian Mode
3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3=Phrygian Mode
4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4=Lydian Mode
5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5=Mixolydian Mode
6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6=Aeolian Mode
7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7=Locrian Mode

So in C it's C Major, D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian etc. etc. BUT, if you play in a different key, you'd get other root notes so, in the key of G Major, you would get these modes:
G Major, A Dorian, B Phrygian, C Lydian, D Mixolydian, E Aeolian and F# Locrian etc. etc.

I think I get this, but not sure. Let me test this with you.

So I am playing the Am pentatonic scale starting at the Low E string, 5th fret. I know that when I do that and play an Am chord, it sounds very bluesy.


Now, if I stay with that same shape (the minor pentatonic shape), and I move my baby finger- which would ordinarily be on the 8th fret of the Low E string, and instead put my baby finger on the Low E string, 5th fret and (in a way, working backwards) continue the rest of the shape as follows:

Low E string, 1st finger, 2nd
A string, 1st finger, 2nd fret
A string, 3rd finger, 4th fret
D string, 1st finger, 2nd fret
D string, 3rd finger, 4th fret
G string, 1st finger, 2nd fret
G string, 3rd finger, 4th fret
B string, 1st finger, 2nd fret
B string, 3rd finger, 5th fret
E string, 1st finger, 2nd fret
E string, 3rd finger, 5th fret


What is it that I would be doing? Have I formed a different mode by shifting the shape so that although I know if I continued the shape back to the first note of its shape, I'd be on the F# root note, I rather am starting the shape with my pinky on the A note (low e string, 5th fret)?

And what affect might this have if i played over a F# Minor chord ( I am assuming bluesy feel), and if I played this over an Am chord (not sure what happens then).

Thank-you

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion] #2960649 11/30/18 03:45 PM
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No. When you drop the A minor scale, down to the second fret, you are playing the F# minor scale.

A mode is simply the same notes, played over different chords/root notes. I'll tell you what...give me a few to get back to my PC and I will record a little video, showing you what I mean so you can better "hear" it.

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion] #2960652 11/30/18 03:55 PM
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My response here is before reading the entries between the quoted questions below & the exchange(s) that followed.

Craig's an experienced teacher; I'm a guy who sometimes shows ppl what I know.
Originally Posted By: Music Fusion
I find that tapping into different sources sometimes helps me think of things differently. The bad part of that, is that it can also cause confusion when people are explaining things in different ways.

My experience is based on what I encountered when moving beyond simply playing music to digging into the theory & the history of Western music theory---which did not develop in a single stroke & in fact has changed quite a bit over it's history.
Reading trad books on theory I would encounter terms & phrases such as "...the minor 7th...".
I'd read that as a reference to a minor 7th chord.
It took me quite a while to realize that for older classical musos that meant the interval of a b7.

My point being that terms can often be confusing, esp, as you've noted, MF, diff sources may seem similar but in actuality not be so.
That's why I always try to deliver small bits of info & suggest that that's the best way to study.
"Too much, too soon" & all that !
It's also why I think dealing w/th notes is more clear when using the interval's position [ 1 (tonic), 2, 3, etc ] is more clear than note names.
The note name refers to a particular position, etc, whereas the interval number is systematic & clear no matter what position or specific musical example.
To me it's the simplest AND the most clear way to designate theory principles.
Originally Posted By: Music Fusion

What I got from stein's tutorial is that within the C major key, as it is played throughout the neck, we already have all the modes built in. And then he talked about the key of C being made up of

1. C Maj
2. Dm
3. Em
4. Fmaj
5. G Maj
6.Am
7. B dim

He said that the 1st, 4th and 5th are always major and the 2,3 and 6 are always minor. The 7th is a diminished

This made sense to me, and it matches what you folks have been saying.

He then said the 1, 4th and 5th are the core chords of the key, while the 2, 3 and 6 are the ones that can give your solo "colour" if you choose to emphasize any one of those.

so reading the recent posts here, the following question emerged:

I understand how moving the pentatonic scale from fret to fret will change the sound of it, particular to what chords are being played underneath it- and i think i understand how those "sounds" get known as lydian, Aelian etc., but what I am not sure i understand is this:

To achieve the different modes, I thought the fingering changed. But when i read what Craig wrote, it seems that i just need ti move the pentatonic around to achieve the modes.

Is that true? If not, what have i misunderstood?

Thank-you


The description of the structure of the modes & the major scale, etc is correct & so is the list of the chords as you move along the major scale.
However, as per the idea that terms may carry diff meanings for diff ppl, I find there to be perhaps confusion abt a phrase such as "move the scale".
To me that's shifting the scale to diff position but staying in the same place within the scale.
I think at times it may be used to actually mean moving to a diff position within the scale.

In a perhaps related way I really discount specific fingerings except as relates to specific musical phrases in particular positions---& even then fingerings may change depending on what's happening in a specific musical context & what's comfortable for a player &/or what they're doing with the music, etc.
You might jump to a diff string or position or not & all that, to me, is more abt what's happening in each specific situation.
Dig ?

Plus, so far the discussion here's mostly been abt the single note aspects of things,.
The chordal/harmonic aspects may complicate things til you get a more definite idea of the musical tone of diff modes
.
idk

That said, let me maybe muddy the waters myself by suggesting this:
In the same way I suggested keeping to the pentatonic skeleton & adding notes as needed, I wonder if it would be helpful to begin the study of the chordal/harmonic aspects of mode/scale interactions by reducing the scale(s) to the intervals involved in the most common chords.

For example, if we run through this series of chords (from above), which are the chords most common to the key of C major ...
1. C Maj
2. Dm
3. Em
4. Fmaj
5. G Maj
6.Am
7. B dim


We might also (& I think more systematically) think of them this way.
1. C Maj = I maj
2. Dm = II min
[more traditionally this is usually written as ii m---same thing really, just lower case for the minor chords}
3. Em = III m ( or iii m)
4. Fmaj = IV
5. G Maj = V
6.Am = VI m (vi m)
7. B dim = VII dim (vii)

[& if you haven't seen it, there's a symbol for the dim chord that looks like math exponent, a tiny zero up by the top of whichever designation you use, letter name or number name]

Further, we might reduce the identification of the chords to this, based on their intervallic structure, instead of using the note names...
[Note that these intervals are based on strictly keeping to the unaltered key while in actual use some song might have an Em 9, for instance b/c songs shift keys all the time while they're actually driving around the streets in yer town grin ]

1. C Maj = 1 3 5 [ with potential additions of M7 9 ]
2. Dm = 1 b3 5 [ w/additions of b7 9 ]
3. Em = 1 b3 5 [ b7 b9 ]
4. Fmaj = 1 3 5 [ M7 9 ]
5. G Maj = 1 3 5 [ b7 9 ]
6. Am = 1 b3 5 [ b7 9 ]
7. B dim = 1 b3 b5 [ b7 ]

[BTW, that's usually called a 1/2 dim chord b/c the 7th interval breaks the pattern of diminished intervals that build the chord in its usual modern use / for a "full dim" chord, that 7th gets flatted again so its a bb7 in that case]... rolleyes

All that may fall into the category of TMI at this point but, as I wondered, does the numerical designation of the intervals help make the patterns more clear than translating the note names between chords ?


d=halfnote
Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote] #2960664 11/30/18 04:15 PM
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Okay, I forgot to mention that the Lydian would be in F.

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String] #2960680 11/30/18 05:41 PM
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| |X| |o|x| | 1st string
| |x|o| |x| |
|o|x| |x| | |
| |x| |X| | |
| |x| |x|o| |
| |X| |o|x| | 6th string


start on the 5th fret Key of A minor using the 1st and 6th strings as the tonal center
x = Pentatonic minor scale
X = Root tone A
o = added Aeolian scale notes

play chords Am and Dm and keep repeating, then play either scale shifting between the 5 note Pentatonic Minor and the 7 note Aeolian minor scales.

Hope this is helpful as a starting point...

Last edited by Larryz; 11/30/18 06:09 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Larryz] #2960685 11/30/18 06:07 PM
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| |X| |o|x| | 1st string
| |x|o| |x| |
|o|x| |x| | |
| |x| |X| | |
| |x| |x|o| |
| |X| |o|x| | 6th string


start on the 2nd fret Key of F# minor using the 1st and 6th strings as the tonal center
x = Pentatonic minor scale
X = Root tone F#
o = added Aeolian scale notes

play chords F#m and Bm and keep repeating, then play either scale shifting between the 5 note Pentatonic Minor and the 7 note Aeolian minor scales.

Hope this is helpful as a starting point...


Take care, Larryz
Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String] #2960687 11/30/18 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: A String


Okay, I forgot to mention that the Lydian would be in F.

Yo, CB, what are those bird sounds that crop up intermittently there ? grin


d=halfnote
Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote] #2960689 11/30/18 06:12 PM
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Lol! Yeah, we have a few conures. Cute, but can be noisy!

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Larryz] #2960694 11/30/18 06:25 PM
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Hi Craig and D.

Thanks to both of you. All of that helped, and the video was very helpful.

So now I think I get it. Let's just focus on modes for a minute because I think I am more clear on moving around the pentatonic.

So, in modes, we are playing the same (I think Craig referred to them as notes in his video), but the the movement on those notes to commence on a different fret, results in a different mode, which has a different musical character (sad, happy, etc). Correct?

Is is accurate to also say, the movement of those note positions, relative to each other, to commence on a different fret, results in a different mode, which has a different musical character (sad, happy, etc). The reason I reworded it, is that when i think of the notes moving.. the movement from one fret to another changes the note name right? But, as d seemed to suggest, as as Craig illustrated in the video, we are more accurately talking about moving the root note and the relative positions of the other notes that follow it- right? Maybe now I'm getting too technical ;-)

So now that i think i get it, I have to step back and think about how I can apply it in my playing. Because presently, my soloing is all about moving pentatonic ally across the neck, with perhaps a little adventure now and then.

But this modal thing is a slightly different way of planning an approach to a solo, right?

So, now I have to think about how to apply this stuff.

I think d may have suggested in the past that i simply pick some music that i like and experiment....so maybe that's the next step.

So if I stayed with a major scale, and found a piece of music that in in the key of the root note of my major scale, would it not be just a matter of playing over top of that music by moving the same relative position of the notes to different frets- resulting in moving to a different mode that would have a different sound? And if so, despite moving the shape to start on different fret, would I still remain in key?

I guess the best way to know is to try it, but I'd also like to understand it conceptually as well.

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion] #2960696 11/30/18 06:35 PM
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So, you are almost there. Basically, playing the same notes, lets say in the key of C from the example, will yield different sounds depending on what chord you play those notes over. No need to move up or down the neck, just use the same notes. Now, if you want to change the key, then you CAN move that pattern up and down the neck. So, for example, if you are playing the C Major scale but starting and ending on a D, you get the D dorian. If you slide the whole thing up the neck (like in the example) so you are playing the D Major scale, you can also use THOSE notes to play over a E and get the E Dorian mode.

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion] #2960698 11/30/18 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Music Fusion
So, in modes, we are playing the same (I think Craig referred to them as notes in his video), but the the movement on those notes to commence on a different fret, results in a different mode, which has a different musical character (sad, happy, etc). Correct?

The mood or feel of the music varies by the specific notes involved, yes, & since the common modern modes are all just a continuous sequence/series of notes, as you shift yer focal point, it can be viewed as a diff mode.

Originally Posted By: Music Fusion
But this modal thing is a slightly different way of planning an approach to a solo, right?

So, now I have to think about how to apply this stuff.

I think d may have suggested in the past that i simply pick some music that i like and experiment....so maybe that's the next step.

So if I stayed with a major scale, and found a piece of music that in in the key of the root note of my major scale, would it not be just a matter of playing over top of that music by moving the same relative position of the notes to different frets- resulting in moving to a different mode that would have a different sound? And if so, despite moving the shape to start on different fret, would I still remain in key?

I guess the best way to know is to try it, but I'd also like to understand it conceptually as well.


Chek the highlighted parts of what I quoted just above.
Yer conceptual understanding will become more clear as you actually try things out.
If you try to get a full understanding before you start, that'll take longer.

As far as planning a solo (or exercise or etude or composition) there are 2 ways to approach music: intellectually or expressively.
They needn't be in contradiction nor do you always need to take the same approach but I tend to think the greater value (as well as more "natural" results) come from an expressive approach.
Overly planned music can seem stilted.

That's why I suggested that yer best progress might be finding music that you already like & have a feel for & exploring how modes, etc, fit into that music rather than working through exercises that themselves may require you to work in new territory.
You'd still be learning but you'd already know some of the landmarks.

Also keep this in mind---the names of scales/modes/whatever or concepts behind what you play are really just identifiers for talking to other musos, if you get the idea of the note patterns & can use them the way you want, it doesn't matter if you can name them.
Music has always preceded the intellectual diagramming of it.
The one time in music that it didn't (Serial or Atonal classical music of the early 20th C) the results were mostly unsatisfactory.


d=halfnote
Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote] #2960706 11/30/18 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: d
Also keep this in mind---the names of scales/modes/whatever or concepts behind what you play are really just identifiers for talking to other musicians


This is a good point to keep in mind. What we are doing here is trying to put names on how the notes make you feel, based on the chords you are playing them over. These names are just ways to explain and teach to other musicians but, in the end, it's all about the sounds.

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String] #2960733 11/30/18 11:55 PM
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Hi guys...I will reserve commenting on the technical stuff as I have not had time to study it, and I always like to give things the necessary thought before asking a question. So leave it with me and I will will report back and, as always, thank-you!!!

I did want to comment on a non technical aspect.

I could not agree more that intellectualizing music is, in a way, counter to free expression and can stifle creativity. I've written about 200 songs in different genres and I can never remember a time when I approached it by thinking about how it might look on sheet music. In fact, quite the opposite. the last song I wrote, was done entirely in my head as I was hanging Christmas lights .

Having said that, I have always respected those who understand music theoretically and while I think representing a creative work by lines and notes on pages of sheet music is a bit revolting (to me at least), I have alway respected the ability to do that.

I know people (such as myself) who play almost entirely by ear, and i also know people who can't play much unless it is scripted for them on sheet music. If i had to choose one or the other, i'd choose to remain as I am as i believe that music first comes from the soul.

Having said all that, i can't ignore the fact that there is a science of sorts behind understanding how music works, and that is why i am throwing myself at it. Maybe that is why I have a difficult time grasping certain scientific aspects of music- because I have spent my entire life letting it pour out of me, agnostic to the rules or "things" that guide it.

I am glad i am learning the other side of music, but it is not natural for me. But I love a challenge.




Last edited by Music Fusion; 11/30/18 11:58 PM.
Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion] #2960803 12/01/18 01:51 PM
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Abolutely no contradiction between the emotive & the analytic approach & both are important.
They're just 2 views of the same thing.


You have , as we all do, stuff to play with (I live that phrase better than "work on") to take some steps forward
but if ya wanna, let's follow some of what we've talked abt here as processes (& I fully defer to AString---along w/some others here--- as an instructor).

A PROPOSAL
What does everyone think abt this idea? idk
MF, name some of yer fave music.
While we as commenters examine those tunes ...
[& everyone, I hope, hold back from offering analysis til later cop after MF does some experiments of his own]

What do you think are the scales/modes that can be used to play those tunes, MF ?
In some cases there may be more than one option.
Do you find, in considering them, some work better than others ?
In cases where more than a single approach might work, what do you think the diff approaches create as effects?

The idea's not to find The Right Answer as much as to test drive the possibilitease grin & see/hear how they work & what you like abt the diff effects that result.
Cool ? idk

Last edited by d; 12/01/18 01:58 PM.

d=halfnote
Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote] #2960805 12/01/18 02:35 PM
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While I agree that Playing modes over music is a great way to learn them and, in this case is where we want to get to, I think it's important for him to have an understanding of what a mode is first. Far too many times I've seen students that know all the terms and how to apply them, but have no understanding of what any of it means. Understanding modes and, consequently, scales, is a fundamental foundation in understanding how music works. The fact that the same notes can sound totally different when played over different chords is how scales came to be in the first place.

And, D. In NO WAY is this going against what you are saying. I agree 100% with everything you've said here. I just want to make sure he has a basic foundation before we build the house on it.

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String] #2960828 12/01/18 05:17 PM
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Okay...so i developed this before reading the most recent posts, but maybe it is in a similar direction.

I recorded a very brief chord progression that has served as part of a song I once wrote. It's a simple C F G progression and could be heard here

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ogimz5U_9kUft6RnB0cDBumZhsLymA-q/view?usp=sharing

So I looped this and used it as my backing track.

At the same time, i was nervous about proceeding without first learning at least the major scale. So, I learned the first three shapes of the C major scale and I am starting them on the 8th fret, Low E string.

Not surprisingly, all three shapes work over top of this progression. They all sound in Key and I know it is because the C major scale is made up of C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am and Bdim

So, it is only fitting that the three positions of the C major scale sound good over this chord progression because it is made up of the 1st (root), 4th and 5th. (trust me- a week ago, i would not be able to talk in these terms- so i am learning ;-).

So now......to apply the Dorian mode in the above chord progression, i do what? Do I move my third finger down so that it is now on the C root note and play the rest of the same pattern from there?


Last edited by Music Fusion; 12/01/18 05:18 PM.
Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion] #2960836 12/01/18 06:01 PM
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Dorian is the second mode in a Major scale. So, you need to play which ever Major scale has a C for the second note. In this case it's A# Major. So, if you play the A# major scale only start and finish on the C, you will be playing the C Dorian mode. Now..to be fair, I'm not sure I would do that over the progression you have.

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String] #2960842 12/01/18 06:27 PM
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In regard to the most recent remarks here, AString & I've known each other to whatever degree both here & at http://www.thestringnetwork.com (his own cool music & gear discussion site) for a good while so we needn't reassure each other over our mutual affiliation, but as happens, we may have diff opinions. cheers

I've the impression that MF does now have a general, if not detailed, idea of the basis of modes & would best learn more by starting to explore them in practice.
If one waits til there's a memory bank w/full recollection of the details of all the names, etc. rather than a handy study guide, that's maybe a long time.
As I said before I think getting smaller bits of info ingrained is easier (my fave word grin ).

I simply think it's easier to get an understanding of the musical effects in the context of music he's already familiar with than generic chord sequences, esp those lacking a song or tune.

If that doesn't resonate w/you guys, that's OK but I do think it's worth trying.
------------------
Now I'm off to chk out MF's link to his track ! w00t


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Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: d / halfnote] #2960870 12/01/18 11:09 PM
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For sure, D. There are as many ways to learn as there are to teach. Could very well be your method will work more efficiently than mine. Cheers!

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String] #2960871 12/01/18 11:29 PM
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Folks---they are both working...and i appreciate all the contributions here. Let me think about the latest things said here and i'll report back

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion] #2960902 12/02/18 12:15 PM
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Craig wrote:

Dorian is the second mode in a Major scale. So, you need to play which ever Major scale has a C for the second note. In this case it's A# Major. So, if you play the A# major scale only start and finish on the C, you will be playing the C Dorian mode. Now..to be fair, I'm not sure I would do that over the progression you have.

So, does that mean that Dorian mode can only be explored when playing in the major scale. And here's a real stupid question. I am learning there C major scale throughout the neck. I am on position 4, having learned positions 1,2 and 3. Does that mean that i can move that scale around.

So, for example, if I started that scale on the low E string, 5th note, would that mean I was in the A major scale, and if so, if I started that scale on the B note, would I be in B Dorian? I hope the answer is yes, because that would mean it is starting to click lol

Last edited by Music Fusion; 12/02/18 12:16 PM.
Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion] #2960904 12/02/18 12:30 PM
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If you move the A Major scale shape up a few frets to the B, it's the B Major scale. If you move it to a G, it's the G Major scale. ANY scale pattern can be slid up and down the neck to change the key but maintain the scale name.

Where you are getting lost is how modes fit into this. A mode is simple the scale, played over a different key than the root note suggests. So, play the A Major scale on the 5th fret and number each note. The notes you are playing will be "A, B, C#, D, E, F#, and G#." If, using the same pattern and not moving up or down the neck, you start on the second note, the B, you will suddenly be hearing the B Dorian Mode. So playing the notes B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A, B. without moving anywhere. If you need to play the Dorian mode in the key of C, you could move that whole thing up one fret.

Last edited by A String; 12/02/18 01:05 PM. Reason: Re-worded for clarity
Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String] #2960908 12/02/18 12:42 PM
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Hi Craig

I don't think I said this right. I know that if I started the entire scale of the B, I'd be in B. But what I mean is if I started the second note of the scale on the B, would I be in Dorian, albeit in the A major scale? am I saying the same thing as your reply is? If we are, which I think we are, I've hit a BINGO moment.

Last edited by Music Fusion; 12/02/18 01:04 PM.
Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion] #2960910 12/02/18 12:47 PM
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Indeed. The only thing left is to know WHICH mode you are playing. So, the A Major scale, played from B to B would give you the Dorian mode in the key of B.

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: A String] #2960912 12/02/18 01:06 PM
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Very cool . Now, i just need time to reset my brain to make it absorb this. FINALLY.

Thanks so much to all of you. I took everything everyone said to heart and although they present different approaches, they all have had an influence in my thinking and learning.

I'll report back once I have had a chance to try this stuff out.

Re: Applying Modes Question [Re: Music Fusion] #2960913 12/02/18 01:09 PM
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Glad to hear! Nothing quite like that illusive "Ah Ha!" moment! By the way, I notice you are in Ontario, if you are close enough to Burlington and looking for lessons, I can highly recommend the teachers at Long and McQuade's, here. Very skilled teachers.

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