Going all software (?)

[yannis D]

I know this topic have been discussed here many times. But i also think it's in the mind of many forum members, as most of us flirt with this option:

 

Make long story short: i'm thinking of selling my NE 5 D and go on the software-only route. Next week I have a gig where I am thinking to run everything from my Mainstage on an old Macbook (2008): Scarbee rhodes/Wurlies and Vox/Farfisa, VB3 organ, Arturia Minimoog, Pianoteq, MainStage clavinet . I have already mapped everything to my M Audio controller so i don't have to reach out to my laptop (which will be hidden), and everything is as simple as it gets. Already rehearsed with it and it went flawlesly.

If I need, i will hook a small Akai 25 keyboard -so i can have some secondary sounds handy-, or just add my small Yamaha CP Reface as a second key designated for Rhodes and clavs (but i can't count on this one as a proper backup, as i mainly use organ/farfisa sounds on my MainStage, and Yamaha doesn't have them).

 

In the past i have done software-only gigs, but on the back of my head there was always the possibility to bring the hardware du jour on stage (Some sort of Nord, which was already up there, but only as a backup...)

So what are your experiences? Has anyone gone this software-only road?

Thank for sharing

Yannis

 

[mcgoo]

Did it for about 10 years. Love / hate relationship. Awesome sonic power, ultimate flexibility. Required constant tweaking. I've moved on to a one board solution (Kronos LS). In most ways, it's a slight step down, but the hassle factor has diminished greatly.

[davinwv]

I've been doing it for over 10 years on stock Dell laptops. I would never go back to hardware. The only negative for me is the inability to grab a sound in the heat of the moment that you haven't set up ahead of time, but this isn't a huge issue for me.

[Reezekeys]

I've been using a laptop on stage for close to twenty years, went 100% laptop with no backup hardware about 12 years ago. IMO perfectly workable but I recommend doing a lot of local, and for lack of better words "less important" gigs, to iron out any funkyness with drivers & various plug-ins not playing nice with each other. Do a few gigs with no issues and you're probably OK. To be safe I turn off wifi and notifications, set energy saver to prevent sleep & turn off app nap. All probably unecessary but I've had some whacky stuff happen like someone tripping over an extension cable and cutting power to the strip my AC adapter was plugged into. Of course the laptop's battery took over and I never knew (since I don't look at the laptop, it's behind me). Worked great until the battery ran down! Now I make sure my battery is fully charged before the show. Anyway, just a heads up because I've put in enough time to have seen a few of these "surprises" happen.

[yannis D]

Reezkeys

I plan to gig with my old Macbook (mid 2008). Funny thing is that my external sound interface is clicking when connected to it and latency is high! But when i play with the internal sound interface only, latency is close to zero and the sound is good, so i'll go this way. Its battery is long way dead, but i ordered a new one just for the shake of the gig, so no much trouble here.

I never get to the internet with it, so it's all set for the gig - MainStage with all the aforementioned VSTs. My set up is fairly simple and CPU (my main concern) does not get higher than 50%.

As you said, i'll work with it in a local gig with, and i'll bring my NE5D there just in case. But my ultimate goal is to get rid of everything else and be all software

 

PS: i remember Herbie Hancock in an old KM interview (when he was promoting Future 2 Future CD and band) saying that his ultimate dream was to gig with a mac and a keyboard controller. This was some years ago, and i think we've reached this point...

[Stokely]

Nope, just too worried about something not working right. I'd have to have a backup hardware keyboard for peace of mind, and if I'm going to have that there ready to go....I'll just roll with two hardware boards (ironically I am only using one right now but I do bring a backup lightweight juno ds)

 

At home, nothing but software.

 

Another factor is logistics. Our stages can be very tight and we have on a couple occasions had a fight or drunk dancer crash into stuff; on others, beverages have spilled. I just don't want a laptop to worry about. With that in mind, I'd lean toward using an ipad or even an iphone for sound, just velcro it to my keyboard If I were doing more synth stuff in my band, I'd probably already be using an ipad. I do use one anyway to control my monitor mix.

 

If not obvious also, we are a weekend warrior band and while I love software, my hardware keyboards are "good enough" sound-wise...allows me to focus on the show, my playing, my singing and getting in and out of there quick to go see my kids If I were doing more high-end pro shows I'd definitely be interested in software live.

[Reezekeys]

You hit on one of the major trade-offs with using a laptop - you have to stay on top of compatibility issues with various hardware & software manufacturer's products. I stopped using my MOTU MicroBook IIc audio interface after it disconnected during an AWB show. Now I use the headphone output, which has always sounded fine for live gigs. Your audio interface driver has to play nice with both your OSX version and the version of your hosting software. Using the headphone output eliminates one of those three factors (though I lost the ability to control my in-ears mix from my controller).

 

Does your old laptop run Snow Leopard? I wish mine could! That was the most trouble free OS version for music I've ever used. I suspect I have USB issues. Besides the MicroBook not playing nice, I had occasional audio burps here & there not show-stopping but annoying. I was connecting my controller to my MacBook Pro via USB. I switched to 5-pin midi through a MOTU Fastlane interface and haven't heard a hiccup since, AND I was able to drop my buffer setting to 64 samples, which I always had issues with before.

 

I do think you need to be a bit of a tech-head to use a laptop-only rig, but I still wouldn't trade what I have for hardware. My system is very stable (especially right now) and I enjoy the hell out of playing it.

[ElmerJFudd]

On the other hand you learn one interface for software like MainStage v3. It's very capable of filling your sounds, fx, layers and splits - anything nor good enough you add an AU/VST. You run it on a Mac with current OS and you don't upgrade or use the computer for a bunch of other junk. If you need redundancy you keep a second mac in the bag or you have a backup patch list on a capable controller like a Yamaha MODX. The big plus is you often can just bring the computers regardless of what's in the backline you have your sounds.

[yannis D]

Reezkeys:

My mac runs on... mac osx 10.5.7 believe it or not and its stable like a rock! No inetrnet use thought. Just plug and play. Mainstage and the rest of the gang they all run smoothly. No hickups until now.

Stokely, i understand you. Hardware might be easier on local gigs than large scale gigs. But still software is very tempting for me now no matter the gig.

Elmerjfudd, you are right. In my case i might have with me my small Yamaha CP Reface which can work as a backup and an add-on soundwise

 

[Reezekeys]

Sounds perfect. For me a music laptop rig follows one rule above all: no fixin' if it ain't broke!

 

The only thing I would add is that, depending on your situation, you might want to carry a small control surface (I use a Korg NanoKontrol), a 5-pin midi interface, and a midi cable. Edit & save a MainStage setup that uses those pieces instead of your M-Audio. Then, if anything happens to your controller (or you're flying somewhere & can't bring it), you can use any midi keyboard. This has saved me a few times in the last few years. In my case, with Bidule as a host for my VIs, I don't even need a separate setup  the same one works for both my Roland A800 Pro keyboard or any generic keyboard + NanoKontrol. YMMV of course.

[hardware]

I dont like the issues of heat on laptops because I would buy a Desktop replacement since my synths are single core resource hog.

Watched guys in Vegas using ADK Pro laptops with i7 960, 2600k, 3770k, etc.

But for 4 grand.

Build my own 1U PCs and have done software only gigs for 16 years now.

 

But on bigger gigs I drag along HX-3, Code 8, SE-02 and 4 x Strymon Pedals.

Sounds much better using hardware, but software only works fine too.

The sound I miss most using software only is a 3 Oscillator monophonic lead/bass synth.

Ive got excellent soft synths but their strength is polyphonic work.

Comparing a mono software synth to hardware is like eating Sushi @ Osakas in Las Vegas, or grabbing Sushi in plastic at 7/11.

 

[Lee T]

Been using a MacBook for around three years now, running either MainStage or Gig Performer depending on the band and application. I've had some very minor glitches, mainly with one particular VST, but by and large it's been very stable.

I will probably move to a Mac Mini solution next year, not one of the new ones but a very stable late 2012 Mini that allows hardware upgrades. This way I can rack mount the computer and control it from an iPad. Less visible, less likely to get damaged or stolen.

 

SSD drives are becoming dirt cheap these days, so upgrade your Macbook's internal drive as it's then one less mechanical thing to break.

 

The one big advantage for me of a software solution is that I can change the controller keyboards depending on the gig without any change to the sounds. It also means I can just schlep along a cheap m-audio controller for rehearsals.

 

 

[Reezekeys]

SSD drives are becoming dirt cheap these days, so upgrade your Macbook's internal drive as it's then one less mechanical thing to break.

Definitely - the OP's 2008 MBP's regular 2.5" form factor makes it a no-brainer. My 5-year old MBP's NVMe "blade" drive with Apple's proprietary connector makes this much more expensive. I'm at 256GB and would love to go to 512GB. Not right now.

[Sven Golly]

Next week I have a gig where I am thinking to run everything from my Mainstage

 

Stop.

 

No.

 

Just, no.

 

Give yourself WAY more time to make sure everything is gig-ready.

 

Otherwise, knock yourself out. I've been doing this for some gigs for years. All is good.

[jeffincltnc]

Do most of you use all encompassing libraries like Komplete for your sounds, or are you purchasing plug ins a-la-carte?

 

Do you usually audition your sounds from free trial downloads or from listening to YouTube videos? Im just starting to acquire sounds on my MacBook Pro but just for home use. Im having a hard time picking my major purchases like Komplete, V-Collection, Omnisphere, Keyscape, Syntronik, etc. I cant just buy everything.

[johnchop]

Free trials are the way to go, although its not always an option (Spectrasonics, many Kontakt libraries.)

 

I own too much stuff, and were I doing it all over, Id go a la carte. You can narrow the field a bit:

 

Do you want to be able play any kind of sound for any situation?

Do you hate hardware dongles for licenses?

How much programming do you do? Preset tweaks or deep synth adventures?

Does it need to cut in a live setting?

 

Does it work well in your host program of choice?

 

Btw, if youre a dedicated Mac person using Mainstage, Id ask what falls short in Mainstages delivered instruments before branching out.

 

 

 

[Roland_Guy]

Just recently completed a 3 month international contract with a band. Where I ran everything 100% mainstage. It was my first ever full mainstage live performance. Not one glitch or problem throughout three months performances.

 

However before the first gigs started I ran it through many tests, played through the sets regularly to sort of bed the laptop in.

 

Things I noticed during the 3 months:

 

As mainstage displays the setlist quite nicely on a retina screen, I often had band members look on my screen to get a glance of the upcoming songs.

 

It was very convenient to drag and drop songs into different orders each night.

 

Running tracks, loops, several layers, splits was all so easy. Everything was assigned to midi keyboard. My kybrd has next and previous buttons so just hitting those moved me to the next song or set easily.

 

Don't run mainstage on battery. Just don't. Had my power supply in at all times. During testing I found the battery mode to just cause mainstage to be unstable. Not sure why.

 

But yeah the ease of use, customization, on the fly set and song changes made it so easy.

[ElmerJFudd]

I am finding laptops generally run audio streaming intense apps better and obviously much longer off of being plugged in regardless of power settings.

 

With MainStage keep redundant copies of your setlists. With lots of tweaking and hitting save a lot, sooner or later you go, "dammit, I want to revert to saved from a week ago".

[Quai34]

Yeah, I know, My former guitarist was telling me to go all software because my synths were outdated and too long to set up and tear down....But they a re so nicer than any software....and I'm still laying my D50 bought in 1986 and I expect to do the dame in 30 years with my P08 and P12....how many time I will age to change computers and OS in 30 years to keep the all system running???? Too many tech stuff for me, in the studio, ok, live, all HW plus Ipad and Bandhelper, configuration changed via midi program changes on the Roland A880 midi patchbay....

 

[yannis D]

Roland_Guy: i see what you say. This is where i really want to go. On my "international" gig -all fly in gigs, so no place to move my Electro- i do the same as you, but i have an old XV2020 layering sounds with MS and a controller (usually a NS3) to run my sounds and have it as a backup. But here in my hometown, where money is tight and sound/PAs are usually bad, going all software seems like a legit solution programming- and money-wise.

Sven Golly: i have tested it in various rehearsals where we run our set list top to bottom. No problems till now.

ElmerJFudd: i keep different MS copies just in case i want to go back to a specific set.

[erik_nie]

Been using a Macbook pro 2012 with 16GB/256GB together with DMC-122.

For audio I need 2 stereo outputs (audio+click).

I used to use the headphone out for audio and a cheap chinese usb-audio interface for click. Now I moved to a USB hub with 2 chinese USB-audio interfaces. CPU dropped (don't know why).

If you are looking for a cheap Audio interface search for 2704 dac.

 

I switched several times between hardware and software.

Recently had an issue with mainstage 3.4, but using time-machine backup I can always go back a version

 

 

 

[Lee T]

If you run MainStage then don't forget to switch off auto save. It's not fun when it starts saving in the middle of a song.

[erik_nie]

from the apple site:

 

Perform mode disables OS-level Auto Save, Spotlight, and Time Machine.

 

I always use this. And disable wifi.

 

[Markay]

Now I moved to a USB hub with 2 chinese USB-audio interfaces. CPU dropped (don't know why).

 

That is because the audio processing load is shifted from the CPU to the ouboard DAC.

 

One of the first things to try to reduce CPU overload.

[Markay]

from the apple site:

 

Perform mode disables OS-level Auto Save, Spotlight, and Time Machine.

 

I always use this. And disable wifi.

 

Also disables power saving, screen sleep and shut down.

[Markay]

ElmerJFudd: i keep different MS copies just in case i want to go back to a specific set.

 

The MS structure is Concert > Set (optional) > Patch > Channel strip.

 

Each are saved as seperate entities. Once built patches can be recalled and added to any future concert and channel strips to patches.

 

A Concert file is a collection of pointers to the concert's assets, patches. A patch file contains pointers to the patches assets which are channel strips.

 

Or you can alias a channel strip so one instance can be run in multiple patches.

[Iconoclast]

Just recently completed a 3 month international contract with a band. Where I ran everything 100% mainstage. It was my first ever full mainstage live performance. Not one glitch or problem throughout three months performances....

The eternal Mainstage question: What did you use for pianos or EP's?

[yannis D]

I guess this question goes to all software hosts, not just MS...

Myself is Pianoteq (and sometimes the internal ESC24 ap's), although most of my project where i use MS are organ/ep/clav/moog centric and not so much AP

[Roland_Guy]

Piano I used the stock logic Steinway and NI The Grandeur (fantasik for live us - can cut through a dense mix with settings tinkered) Tried pianoteq as well but had cpu issues.

 

For Ep lounge lizard was surprisingly good. Used Scarbee as well.

 

I found these sounds were more than enough and sounded good live. We ran tracks, live horns and vocals.

My MacBook was 8gb ram retina late 2013. 128gb SSD

 

I am currently testing out an all iPad rig with tracks using AUM mixer and several high quality iOS apps. I have three gigs lined up shortly that I am using it. The rig is 100% iOS. So far it is sounding good.

 

 

[drawback]

I am currently testing out an all iPad rig with tracks using AUM mixer and several high quality iOS apps. I have three gigs lined up shortly that I am using it. The rig is 100% iOS. So far it is sounding good.

 

 

Would you share a breakdown of what youre using with us?