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#2955942 - 11/01/18 05:03 PM Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes?
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 472
Loc: Northeastern MN, U.S.
Hi,

I know that there has been a lot of discussion around using iPads to send midi changes to different keyboards as a master set list. Some keyboards I have (JV-1000, Krome, YS200) don't have any way of setting up a set list or master mode with both combinations/multis and programs/patches/voices. I am going to be doing a second-keys gig on Sunday (the only other instrument is piano, so I'm only playing one or two sounds), and I'm just using the Krome for a couple of sounds. One is in Combi mode, the others in various banks in Program mode. There is no spacing between two of the songs, and very little time in-between the others. Currently I have the patch and combi bank and numbers written at the top of each song. I know you can use Sequencer mode to make a set list, but then you have to save it and load it in from an SD card. An extra step I don't want to have in case of changes etc.


So I was looking around and I found that lots of people use their iPad to send program changes to their keyboards. There seem to be tons of interfaces around and quite a few apps. Yamaha Set List isn't around anymore I see. Someone on one of the Korg Krome groups has hacked the sysex string to send in order to change between program and combi modes.

So what I need is the ability to change sounds on multiple keyboards at once from my iPad. No idea what type of interface I need. Obviously Midi, but do I need one with multiple midi ports, or an external midi box, etc...perhaps some sort of usb interface with the camera adapter?

My iPad is a 5th Generation 128GB iPad, model MPGW2LL/A, https://support.apple.com/kb/SP751?locale=en_US, so the previous model plain iPad (not the pro or mini). Uses lightning.



Suggestions?



Thanks,

-Max
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Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470

Korg Krome 61

Roland JV-1000

Titano Virtuoso Converter, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370, Kimball Valencia/Broadway

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#2955951 - 11/01/18 06:07 PM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 1288
Loc: Montreal, Canada
BIG DISCLAIMER: I've read about this but have never tried it myself.

Regarding the interface, you can use a wide variety of iOS compatible devices, but the simplest is probably the korg plugkey, which I believe allows you to charge your iOS device while it is working, so you don't need to worry about battery issues during the gig.

There are also many software app options. The two that I am aware of are Set list maker and Onsong, but I am certain there are many others.

In terms of controlling different keyboards, I would presume that you would be okay to go as long as one of them had a midi thru at least midi out that copies the input at the MIDI in (check if the Krone does this); just send a string of program change messages on different channels and set each board up to respond to different channels.


Edited by Dr88s (11/01/18 06:09 PM)
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#2955959 - 11/01/18 06:21 PM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: Dr88s]
miden Offline
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Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 2302
Loc: Australia
OnSong and Unrealbook are probs the best out there for this sort of thing (outside a laptop or Mac)

I own both, and for live gigging I use UnrealBook as it does not have all the bells and whistles of OnSong, but does what it does very, very well!

OnSong is a great app too especially if you want the "Swiss Knife" of chart reading apps.
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#2955965 - 11/01/18 06:51 PM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: Dr88s]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 472
Loc: Northeastern MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Dr88s
...
In terms of controlling different keyboards, I would presume that you would be okay to go as long as one of them had a midi thru at least midi out that copies the input at the MIDI in (check if the Krone does this); just send a string of program change messages on different channels and set each board up to respond to different channels.


FYI the Krome does not have a Midi Thru. Just In/Out. My other 5-pin boards do though. :-)

As another note, I don't need to have lyrics/chords on the iPad. Just midi and maybe eventually audio (not really to be worried about now).


Edited by Mighty Motif Max (11/01/18 06:53 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470

Korg Krome 61

Roland JV-1000

Titano Virtuoso Converter, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370, Kimball Valencia/Broadway

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#2955973 - 11/01/18 08:44 PM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
Daddyg3042 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Oregon
I've used SetList Maker (SLM)with a an iRig MIDI adapter for 4-5 years now, on 3 different boards. Patch changes are configured per Song. Songs make up Shows. Patch changes occur as you flip to the next song in the show, or via a dedicated button. The program is able to display PDF and other docs which are importable and can be attached to songs for lyrics, chords, whatever. You can also attach audio to songs. Lot of other good stuff too. I love it. There's a pretty good forum for questions and Arlo, its creator, actively supports it. Setlist Maker website

SLM has morphed into Band Helper, with more features, more connectivity, etc. I've not had any need to upgrade, but it appears this is the direction the software is going. Pretty sure you can still purchase SLM.

Good luck


Edited by Daddyg3042 (11/01/18 09:11 PM)
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#2955986 - 11/02/18 03:32 AM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: Daddyg3042]
TomKittel Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 600
I am using this: https://www.imidipatchbay.com/

Works great.

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#2955988 - 11/02/18 03:35 AM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: Daddyg3042]
TomKittel Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 600

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#2956000 - 11/02/18 04:44 AM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12912
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Some keyboards I have (JV-1000, Krome, YS200) don't have any way of setting up a set list or master mode with both combinations/multis and programs/patches/voices...I'm just using the Krome for a couple of sounds. One is in Combi mode, the others in various banks in Program mode...Someone on one of the Korg Krome groups has hacked the sysex string to send in order to change between program and combi modes.

No need to change modes, Just create more Combis on the Krome, that have nothing but those single Programs you need in them. Then you can stay in Combi mode and switch among all the sounds you need. Remember, just because you can put 2 or more sounds in a Combi doesn't mean you have to!
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#2956022 - 11/02/18 06:31 AM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: AnotherScott]
stoken6 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2008
I'm using BandHelper (upgraded from Set List Maker). It's great for what I need, but I would counsel that it's trickier to time a prod on a touch-screen than a physical button. You may want to look into a bluetooth pedal alongside this app.

+1 on Scott's suggestion of using Combis throughout. I did this on my Alesis QS years ago.

Cheers, Mike.

Cheers, Mike.
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#2956570 - 11/05/18 06:07 PM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 472
Loc: Northeastern MN, U.S.
Thanks guys! So here's what we have so far:

Interfaces
Korg Plugkey
iRig Midi interface
iConnectivity iConnectMIDI1 or iConnectMIDI2+



Apps
SetListMaker
BandHelper
OnSong
UnrealBook
iMidiPatchbay



More input on interfaces? I've been looking at the iRig Pro Duo (pricey though) https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/iRigProDuo--ik-multimedia-irig-pro-duo, the iRig MIDI 2 https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/iRigMIDI2--ik-multimedia-irig-midi-2, or maybe the Alesis Control Hub https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/...oring-interface with an adapter. I've read a fair amount of negative stuff about the iConnectivity stuff.
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470

Korg Krome 61

Roland JV-1000

Titano Virtuoso Converter, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370, Kimball Valencia/Broadway

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#2956573 - 11/05/18 06:36 PM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12912
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Thanks guys! So here's what we have so far:

Interfaces
Korg Plugkey
iRig Midi interface
iConnectivity iConnectMIDI1 or iConnectMIDI2+
...
More input on interfaces?

Since you're looking at "using iPads to send midi changes to different keyboards as a master set list", the Korg PlugKey won't work, since it does not have a MIDI Out.

Unlike the original iRig Midi, I believe the current version (2) does not allow you to keep a charger plugged in while using it. So if you find yourself at a gig and your iPad is accidentally not as charged as you thought it was, you could be SOL.

iConnectMIDI2+ should be a good choice. I only have a little experience with it, I couldn't quickly understand the app so I wasn't able to try any of the fancy things it can do, but the default config did what I needed at the time anyway. But this is a nice piece if you have more than 1 board and don't want to rely on one of them having a Thru function.

The easiest thing is just to get the Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter for $39, and any MIDI->USB interface. The Alesis you mentioned looks nice for giving you handy 1/4" outs and volume knobs.

As for apps for patch changes, besides what you mentioned, look at MIDI Breakout Box and Keystage and https://www.camelotpro.com/
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Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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#2956578 - 11/05/18 07:05 PM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: AnotherScott]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 472
Loc: Northeastern MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Thanks guys! So here's what we have so far:

Interfaces
Korg Plugkey
iRig Midi interface
iConnectivity iConnectMIDI1 or iConnectMIDI2+
...
More input on interfaces?

Since you're looking at "using iPads to send midi changes to different keyboards as a master set list", the Korg PlugKey won't work, since it does not have a MIDI Out.

Unlike the original iRig Midi, I believe the current version (2) does not allow you to keep a charger plugged in while using it. So if you find yourself at a gig and your iPad is accidentally not as charged as you thought it was, you could be SOL.


Thank you for that information. I definitely need to be able to charge the iPad at the gig. Off those go. smile

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
iConnectMIDI2+ should be a good choice. I only have a little experience with it, I couldn't quickly understand the app so I wasn't able to try any of the fancy things it can do, but the default config did what I needed at the time anyway. But this is a nice piece if you have more than 1 board and don't want to rely on one of them having a Thru function.


If I go that route I might just go all-out and get the 4x4 model.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

The easiest thing is just to get the Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter for $39, and any MIDI->USB interface. The Alesis you mentioned looks nice for giving you handy 1/4" outs and volume knobs.

As for apps for patch changes, besides what you mentioned, look at MIDI Breakout Box and Keystage and https://www.camelotpro.com/


Does the interface have to be class-compliant? If I go that route I'd like to have it as a regular interface as well, ie plenty of ins/outs for virtual organ programs etc. And if the interface is bus-powered, then can you still charge the iPad somehow? Or if it's not bus-powered, but you use the connection kit (which I already have)?


Camelot looks probably the best out of those apps. I'll have to take a look at it when it comes out.



Thank you Scott.
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470

Korg Krome 61

Roland JV-1000

Titano Virtuoso Converter, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370, Kimball Valencia/Broadway

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#2956615 - 11/06/18 04:24 AM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12912
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Does the interface have to be class-compliant?

Yes, but I was talking about things like Roland UM-One and the like, all of them are class compliant. If you're talking about higher end interfaces, any functions that require the installation of driver software on a Mac or PC won't work, because you can't install those drivers on an iPad (and iPad-specific system-level drivers don't exist because Apple does not permit such things).

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
And if the interface is bus-powered, then can you still charge the iPad somehow? Or if it's not bus-powered, but you use the connection kit (which I already have)?]
If you have the version of the connection kit I mentioned, it includes a port to plug in the charger. That's why that's the one I recommended.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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#2956710 - 11/06/18 02:21 PM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: AnotherScott]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 472
Loc: Northeastern MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Does the interface have to be class-compliant?

Yes, but I was talking about things like Roland UM-One and the like, all of them are class compliant. If you're talking about higher end interfaces, any functions that require the installation of driver software on a Mac or PC won't work, because you can't install those drivers on an iPad (and iPad-specific system-level drivers don't exist because Apple does not permit such things).

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
And if the interface is bus-powered, then can you still charge the iPad somehow? Or if it's not bus-powered, but you use the connection kit (which I already have)?]
If you have the version of the connection kit I mentioned, it includes a port to plug in the charger. That's why that's the one I recommended.


Ok, thanks. I had to look up that specific connection kit. Yep, I have the other version. So I'm thinking of going with the iConnectivityMIDI2+ since the price is nice. The Alesis Control Hub would be nice except I would like to have at least two sets of MIDI In/Out for multiple boards, should I like using the iPad for that sort of thing. What I'm wondering is, do you happen to know if I can use a powered usb hub and connect in an audio interface should I want to record live playing into the iPad while using the midi set list stuff? Or are iPads not capable of running multiple things at the same time?


Edited by Mighty Motif Max (11/06/18 02:22 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470

Korg Krome 61

Roland JV-1000

Titano Virtuoso Converter, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370, Kimball Valencia/Broadway

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#2956741 - 11/06/18 05:01 PM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: AnotherScott]
miden Offline
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Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 2302
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
.....
Unlike the original iRig Midi, I believe the current version (2) does not allow you to keep a charger plugged in while using it. So if you find yourself at a gig and your iPad is accidentally not as charged as you thought it was, you could be SOL....


Using the iRig PowerBridge accessory you can, I believe. Although with the battery life of the iPad at somewhere between 7-10 hours, not sure this is something to worry about wink
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#2956772 - 11/07/18 01:32 AM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: stoken6]
Quai34 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/17
Posts: 201
Loc: Canada, MB
Originally Posted By: stoken6
I'm using BandHelper (upgraded from Set List Maker). It's great for what I need, but I would counsel that it's trickier to time a prod on a touch-screen than a physical button. You may want to look into a bluetooth pedal alongside this app.

+1 on Scott's suggestion of using Combis throughout. I did this on my Alesis QS years ago.

Cheers, Mike.

Cheers, Mike.
i started with Setlist maker and now I use Bandhelper....Awesome product, could do very specific trick for. Isi, like sending 3 different ones of the same channel, on in program change, one like the attached program even some program change and control,change via HEXA decimal...
And of course, you also can still use it with a blue tooth pedal...
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#2956774 - 11/07/18 01:33 AM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: miden]
Quai34 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/17
Posts: 201
Loc: Canada, MB
Originally Posted By: miden
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
.....
Unlike the original iRig Midi, I believe the current version (2) does not allow you to keep a charger plugged in while using it. So if you find yourself at a gig and your iPad is accidentally not as charged as you thought it was, you could be SOL....


Using the iRig PowerBridge accessory you can, I believe. Although with the battery life of the iPad at somewhere between 7-10 hours, not sure this is something to worry about wink

Just ordered it today, I was done with having to remember charge at max my ipad when we were doing 4/5 hours of practice or when Imworkn sound design....
_________________________
Stage 2, C2 & NL2X+TC Pedals, Prophet 08 & 12+Tetra&H9, D50+PG1000, 2 Matrix 1K, Proteus 2K, TX802, Streichfett, Drumbrute. Guitars:G&L Legacy, Asat X2, Ibanez Artstar AS153.Bass: L2000, SR1200& 2605.

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#2956793 - 11/07/18 06:12 AM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: miden]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12912
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
do you happen to know if I can use a powered usb hub and connect in an audio interface should I want to record live playing into the iPad while using the midi set list stuff? Or are iPads not capable of running multiple things at the same time?

I don't know about your specific scenario, but yes you can put a powered USB hub on the iPad, and yes, the iPad can run multiple apps simultaneously.

Originally Posted By: miden
Using the iRig PowerBridge accessory you can, I believe.

Good to know. I had some vague memory that they were supposed to be coming out with a charging accessory, but there was no info about it on the iRig MIDI's web page, so I thought it was vaporware.

Originally Posted By: miden
Although with the battery life of the iPad at somewhere between 7-10 hours, not sure this is something to worry about wink

It's happened that I've expected to arrive with a fully charged iPad that wasn't. Maybe something wasn't plugged in that I thought was plugged in, whatever. Even with a fully charged device, you may have an older one whose battery life has degraded, or may be running it in a power hungry scenario (like using it to power a MIDI controller)... It's nice to have the security of knowing you can always plug it in to charge it, even if you're in the middle of using it.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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#2956796 - 11/07/18 07:07 AM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: AnotherScott]
Quai34 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/17
Posts: 201
Loc: Canada, MB
"It's Nice to have the Security", yes p, exactly....But you're right, they are hard to find, the Irig PowerBridge is Tough to find even Their website, if you don't remember the exact name...
_________________________
Stage 2, C2 & NL2X+TC Pedals, Prophet 08 & 12+Tetra&H9, D50+PG1000, 2 Matrix 1K, Proteus 2K, TX802, Streichfett, Drumbrute. Guitars:G&L Legacy, Asat X2, Ibanez Artstar AS153.Bass: L2000, SR1200& 2605.

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#2956978 - 11/08/18 02:13 PM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
bob_sd Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/24/14
Posts: 56
Loc: CA
If you are looking for an audio and midi interface in one - I recommend the iconnectivity iconnectaudio4+. Itís very inexpensive, provides four audio channels in and four audio channels out, and both 5pin din and usb MIDI in and out. Iíve used mine since it was released a few years ago and love it both in the studio and live. Keeps the iPad charged, and I can even simultaneously connect another computer. I can exchange midi data between any of my keyboards and iPad and MacBook. And of course can route audio too. They recently released a new utility app that makes configuring a breeze.

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#2956984 - 11/08/18 03:08 PM Re: Best app and interface combo for iPad midi program changes? [Re: bob_sd]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 472
Loc: Northeastern MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: bob_sd
If you are looking for an audio and midi interface in one - I recommend the iconnectivity iconnectaudio4+. Itís very inexpensive, provides four audio channels in and four audio channels out, and both 5pin din and usb MIDI in and out. Iíve used mine since it was released a few years ago and love it both in the studio and live. Keeps the iPad charged, and I can even simultaneously connect another computer. I can exchange midi data between any of my keyboards and iPad and MacBook. And of course can route audio too. They recently released a new utility app that makes configuring a breeze.


Thanks. smile I need more than one set of 5-pin in/outs though.
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470

Korg Krome 61

Roland JV-1000

Titano Virtuoso Converter, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370, Kimball Valencia/Broadway

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