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Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: AnotherScott] #2953221 10/16/18 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

My even bigger issue with the Transpose function is that it doesn't maintain split points.


Boom! i hate that too!


-Greg
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Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Mogut] #2953233 10/16/18 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mogut
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

My even bigger issue with the Transpose function is that it doesn't maintain split points.


Boom! i hate that too!


My kurz pc3 did maintain the splitpoints. One of the many smart features of Kurzweil..


Rudy

Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: RudyS] #2953237 10/17/18 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: RudyS
Originally Posted By: Mogut
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

My even bigger issue with the Transpose function is that it doesn't maintain split points.


Boom! i hate that too!


My kurz pc3 did maintain the splitpoints. One of the many smart features of Kurzweil..


and Roland, and Korg and Casio and pretty much most of the controller brigade as well IIRC.

Ah well, Yamaha do like their "points of difference".


The trouble with doing the job correctly first time, is no-one will ever know just how difficult it was.
Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: miden] #2953274 10/17/18 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: miden
Ah well, Yamaha do like their "points of difference".

they do provide a noteshift function that changes the tuning while leaving the split point intact. Itís just not a panel button but its pretty easy to get to.

Besides, i thought the established consensus here was that transpose buttons arenít even allowed to be used? snax

Last edited by MotiDave; 10/17/18 09:24 AM.

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Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: MotiDave] #2953280 10/17/18 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: miden
Ah well, Yamaha do like their "points of difference".

they do provide a noteshift function that changes the tuning while leaving the split point intact. Itís just not a panel button but its pretty easy to get to.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that that function had to be done part by part. So if you needed to transpose a 3-way split, you'd have to go to that menu screen and perform the function three times (more if you're using any layers with your splits). And you'd still have the problem that, if you need to call up another patch mid-song, it will not come in at the transposed pitch.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: miden] #2953282 10/17/18 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: miden
Yamaha do like their "points of difference".


Just like Apple.


When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: MotiDave] #2953301 10/17/18 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: miden
Ah well, Yamaha do like their "points of difference".

they do provide a noteshift function that changes the tuning while leaving the split point intact. Itís just not a panel button but its pretty easy to get to.

Besides, i thought the established consensus here was that transpose buttons arenít even allowed to be used? snax


pretty much any split needs an octave shift. So while editing splits in performance mode, using the octave panel buttons without shifting split point would be ideal rather than digging thru menus to find transpose parameter and scrolling 12.


-Greg
Motif XS8, MOXF8, Hammond XK1c, Vent
Rhodes Mark II 88 suitcase, Yamaha P255
Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Mogut] #2953366 10/17/18 06:22 PM
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From the manual:

ďThe audio signals of the MODX can be output to the [USB TO HOST] terminal and the OUTPUT [L/MONO]/[R] jacks. When connecting to a computer, use the [USB TO HOST] terminal.Ē

So now Iím wondering if I can output audio through the USB TO HOST terminal of the MODX to the USB input of my active monitors.
Or do I really need to put a computer between them?

Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: AnotherScott] #2953411 10/17/18 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: miden
Ah well, Yamaha do like their "points of difference".

they do provide a noteshift function that changes the tuning while leaving the split point intact. Itís just not a panel button but its pretty easy to get to.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that that function had to be done part by part. So if you needed to transpose a 3-way split, you'd have to go to that menu screen and perform the function three times (more if you're using any layers with your splits). And you'd still have the problem that, if you need to call up another patch mid-song, it will not come in at the transposed pitch.


and further, if you need to re-pitch an instrument as you have it on say, the top 12 notes, all yamaha allow is -24, and with some instruments you do need -36 when playing that high.....So you need to get down to the element level and transpose those as well.


The trouble with doing the job correctly first time, is no-one will ever know just how difficult it was.
Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: miden] #2953415 10/17/18 11:02 PM
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Transpose? I thought if you couldn't play every song in your setlist in every key, AS the singer calls audibles from the mic, that you weren't worthy to even read this forum...

Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: wd8dky] #2953431 10/18/18 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: wd8dky
Transpose? I thought if you couldn't play every song in your setlist in every key, AS the singer calls audibles from the mic, that you weren't worthy to even read this forum...



Sounds like a typical gig with my band...


Studio: Motif XF8/Macbook Pro/Plug-ins
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Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: miden] #2953443 10/18/18 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: miden

and further, if you need to re-pitch an instrument as you have it on say, the top 12 notes, all yamaha allow is -24, and with some instruments you do need -36 when playing that high.....So you need to get down to the element level and transpose those as well.


This is indeed an old Yamaha problem. However, on the Montage/Modx it is not really that difficult to set the pitch (they call it note shift) on the element level because there is only a performance mode and changing something on the elements level doesn't require additional savings of a patch.
Saying that, the problem still exist because Yamaha refuses after so many years to increase the range, but doing additional note shifts on the element level is actually part of the same editing proces, it's much easier and faster compared to the older Motif line.

Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: mojkarma] #2953461 10/18/18 10:03 AM
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Not to be pedantic, but there seems to be some confusion over the terminology Yamaha uses and what "Transpose" and "Note Shift" actually do on Motif family models.

This might help (or further confuse/annoy)...
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/455226/


Yamaha: Motif XF6 and XS6, A3000V2, A4000, YS200 | Korg: T3EX, 05R/W | Fender Chroma Polaris | Roland U-220 | Etc.

Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: MIDI2XS] #2953468 10/18/18 10:44 AM
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Yamaha does have a penchant for using their own terminology for things that often runs counter to convention and/or to what a native English speaker might expect a word to mean. But yes, consistent with what I posted earlier, their Transpose function actually changes the MIDI note transmit values (which is what the Yamaha uses even internally between its own keys and its tone generator), whereas the function to change key is available in a menu via the NoteShft command. If you don't have a split, the audible result is the same. The issue is what happens when you have splits. Changing MIDI values means that the splits move to new keys, whereas keeping the MIDI values the same and instead changing the pitch of the notes you are triggering leaves the split points were they were.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: miden] #2953517 10/18/18 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: miden
and further, if you need to re-pitch an instrument as you have it on say, the top 12 notes, all yamaha allow is -24, and with some instruments you do need -36 when playing that high.....So you need to get down to the element level and transpose those as well.

you can do all of the above - which you do at what level is really based on what it is you need to do

- to make a global half-step tuning shift of everything you play, you go into Utilities and change the global coarse tuning a half step. this changes tune of everything without moving any split points.

- to change just one Performance (e.g. for one song) - if you want it permanent you'd tune the parts of that one song in the Performance at Part level. As noted, max note tune shift is +/- 24 half steps.

- to retune more than +/- 24 - you have to tune the Elements within a Part. you can these 36, combined with the 24 at the Part level you cam change tune a total of 5 octaves. if you need more than 5 octaves, you're doing something very unusual and i wish you well


Last edited by MotiDave; 10/18/18 03:57 PM.

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Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: fjzingo] #2953690 10/19/18 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Iīd want a Yammi MODX 1HU rack !
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
Guess they need to fix the midi implementation first........
I think the Roland Integra 7 rack module has the same kind of MIDI implementation (16 parts, each on a fixed MIDI channel)... and the Roland is well-liked as a module...


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Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: AnotherScott] #2953701 10/19/18 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Iīd want a Yammi MODX 1HU rack !
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
Guess they need to fix the midi implementation first........
I think the Roland Integra 7 rack module has the same kind of MIDI implementation (16 parts, each on a fixed MIDI channel)... and the Roland is well-liked as a module...


Not true, under part settings you can set rx chanel for eacht part in a studio set.
Studio set is what we call performances on yamaha montage/modx
The integra 7 is very very flexible.. and works very well together with both my kronos as well as the modx

Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: AnotherScott] #2953719 10/19/18 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
and the Roland is well-liked as a module...


Come to that, the Roland IS a module, and you can't say that about much gear these days.

Cheers, Mike.


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Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: stoken6] #2953733 10/19/18 07:55 PM
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An update on the looping issue. I got a response back from Melas stating the Motif/Montage have an issue that if a WAV contains any audio after the loop, this can create audible artifacts. So I went through, re-edited everything, made sure there is nothing after the loop both in Wavelab and in the Melas Waveform Editor and I'm still getting artifacts that don't show up when the WAVs are played back on the computer or when saved as an X7U in SampleRobot. So something else is amiss. I've spent far too much time on this issue. SampleRobot can function as a tool to bring in WAVs, create waveforms (Yamaha-speak for multi-samples) and then export those as an X7U. But it's not as versatile for doing that as is the Melas Editor. But at least the results are good.

Here's an example of the issue:

Looping Issue: 1st SampleRobot - 2nd Melas Editor

Busch.

Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: burningbusch] #2953738 10/19/18 08:33 PM
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I went down to play the MODX for the 4th time today. I absolutely love the sounds, I canít come to terms with the action. I want to, badly - I just canít.

This could get expensive.


Yamaha P515, Yamaha KX88, Edirol PCR-800 (2), Korg microKey 61 Air, Mainstage, iOS, assorted other controllers and retired boards.
Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Bobby Simons] #2953751 10/20/18 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
I went down to play the MODX for the 4th time today. I absolutely love the sounds, I canít come to terms with the action. I want to, badly - I just canít.

This could get expensive.

Did you check the MODX8?

Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Fleer] #2953753 10/20/18 01:07 AM
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Yes, the 8.


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Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Bobby Simons] #2953762 10/20/18 03:15 AM
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Hey guys, yesterday I received the MODX8 from Thomann and, for the first time ever, I returned something on the same day.

Absolutely hated the action, at first I actually thought there must be something wrong with the settings, but...

I did expect something of lower quality than my CP4, of course, but it is unacceptable for me; even after setting the velocity curve to ďsoftĒ I wasnít able to bring out single notes in my chords and such things, the samples just didnĎt come to life like it sounded when pressing the audition button. Itís also very unpleasant and heavy to play deeper or higher on the keys.

Iím very dissapointed because I really really wanted to like it.

Last edited by Manolios; 10/20/18 05:04 PM.

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Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Fleer] #2953772 10/20/18 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: Fleer
Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
I went down to play the MODX for the 4th time today. I absolutely love the sounds, I can’t come to terms with the action. I want to, badly - I just can’t.

This could get expensive.

Did you check the MODX8?


Even though my MX-88 purchase a year and a half ago was sort of a buy on my 2nd line gear meaning gear I may use on small pick up gigs I could not play piano or synth on that action...and I really tried to like it because the sounds were all Motif and very good really. Though the cheaper DAC's seemed evident in their also upon playing and listening.

I must admit when I check out the MODX-8 it was much better than the MX-88 implementation. I understood the better response on that board compared to the MX-88 was due to the sound engine, not the action itself as soon as I played in GC and immediately when I touched it with a piano patch on the MODX8...I said boy how much better is this than the MX..but that was a relational response to the MX-88 experience only and the cost was factored in. I defiantly would have considered the MODX8 more than the MX-88....but I play a lot of piano on gigs about 70 % of the time actually. You do get cognitive dissonance when comparing this stuff and the series of events makes that happen with the stuff you try and when you compare instruments (just a side note).

So, in the MODX8 it isn't half as bad as on the MX-88 which they touted as being 'married' to the MX soundset especially for pianos which after some time made me laugh as Blake Angelis and the others did their video run throughs after the release...


I bought the MX-88 without playing it and just based on the videos which I try never to do but like a dope I did. So when the SP-6 came out with Kurzweil's new piano sample I had immediately hatched a plan to try it somewhere (I didn't/couldn't anywhere). I do like the way the old triple strike sat in the mix sonically in my old SP-76 and PC3 I played on gigs as backlines. Folks also responded to it over the Yamaha sound which always confused me a bit because the old triple strike piano sound itself was not very authentic in many ways. But it did hold it's own sonic wise even with the guitars and all the freq. cancellation going on, it still held it's sonic space in the mix somehow (Kurzweil mid- range) Ö.And in that it responded more like a real piano some, all true about Kurzweils and that...not a myth. So I did it again and how bought the SP-6 un-auditioned... and kept my fingers crossed. But it worked out, I'm digging it.
The pianos have character.

Anyway, the GHS, at least in the MX and now maybe in the MODX is a disappointment for me and others looks like. I don't mind it in my P95 for some reason.. How the keybeds and the sound sources marry is really the key to this stuff Ö.This has been known for years even with old vintage synths and controllers. The MODX8 is still not bad compared to the MX-88 but for $1800+... I'd probably want a better action. Just one step up really would do it.


Very happy so far with the SP-6's Medeli action...but even there....wish it was a just a tad more responsive...but for almost the same coin...much much better than the MX-88! .But it's under $1300 USD.

I'm starting to really feel all the MFG's are not 100% sure how their action choices are going to work in the final product married to the sound sources..or maybe they do and the cost margins are at play. Almost seems like a toss up sometimes when they start designing this stuff...

Really they can't design a keybed for each new instrument/soundsource but they probably should in an ideal world.

Last edited by Legatoboy; 10/20/18 09:41 AM.

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Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Manolios] #2953778 10/20/18 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: Manolios
. . . Itís also very unpleasant and heavy to play deeper or higher on the keys. . .

Interesting that you say that, thatís how I would generally describe the action. I had the sensation of playing high on the keys, even when I wasnít.

My other complaint extends to the Montage and the entire Yamaha line: how the hell are they STILL so remarkably clueless in regards to tonewheel organ expectations? Itís maddening.


Yamaha P515, Yamaha KX88, Edirol PCR-800 (2), Korg microKey 61 Air, Mainstage, iOS, assorted other controllers and retired boards.
Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Bobby Simons] #2953786 10/20/18 11:07 AM
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Interesting indeed.
I find the Yamaha GHS action (in the MOXF8 and MODX8) to be one of the lightest hammer actions around, great for piano but also very playable for synth (and strings). Itís actually one of the few actions that allow for a middle way. Not perfect for piano, neither for synth, but ideal if you regularly play both.

Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Bobby Simons] #2953819 10/20/18 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
My other complaint extends to the Montage and the entire Yamaha line: how the hell are they STILL so remarkably clueless in regards to tonewheel organ expectations? Itís maddening.

OTOH, I don't think they're worse than other rompler organs. If you need something with a clonewheel engine, this just is not the board to buy.


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Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Fleer] #2953821 10/20/18 03:02 PM
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I totally agree with you. just received my modx6 and I like the keybed. I am basically a Hammond plyer. real Hammond not a clone. playing a true Hammond organ, the feel is totally different than playing a piano or synth. I adapt to what I am playing. I wouldn't want a keybed like a piano touch to play strings, horns, organ, synth,etc. I am interested only in the sounds that the synth has. someone will always want more, and have complaints from a new product....Larry

Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: lsj] #2953840 10/20/18 04:07 PM
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Iím not yet convinced by MODX8 as a live instrument. It sounds fabulous on studio monitors, but it requires much more tweaking to get it to work live. And the position of the volume knob is almost a dealbreaker. The +6dB isnít enough to get the levels to match the Krome, the +12dB feels a little hot.

Good thing is its flexibility, and the ease of use. Setting up performances and live sets is almost self-explanatory. I need to further study how parts are broken down into elements, though.

It does make me want to get a 7, but Iím thinking maybe I should go whole hog Montage 7, then. Getting my aftertouch back would be great, but the ultra-portability of the MODX7 is definitely a big factor.


Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: zephonic] #2953849 10/20/18 04:53 PM
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Any more thoughts on the MODX8 keybed, zephonic?

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