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#2952193 - 10/09/18 02:47 PM Spinal aid- seats for the aging.
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7040
Loc: S. Ca. USA
After half century of lifting - first as a laborer in construction then Leslies and B3, then Suitase Rhodes, and SVT heads and plus 100 lb cabs. my spine has cried Uncle.

I am told my spinal situation is a " do not pass go", situation. My chiropractors insensitive words last week. SOOO, She said I need to support spine when seated, and NO lifting to speak of. I am a strong fellow, about 25 years ago I benched pressed with little training 235 weighing below 200.
At mid 30's military press body weight.
But boys, when the spine gives you pain, forget it.
SOOO What kind of seats offer maximal spinal support?
I have been wholly unconscious of spinal support... being strong, cluelessly paying zero attention, but now I have to, or quit playing.


Edited by I-missRichardTee (10/09/18 02:49 PM)
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#2952198 - 10/09/18 03:08 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Registered: 02/21/05
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You may have to retrain yourself. I'm working on it.

To Fix That Pain In Your Back, You Might Have To Change The Way You Sit
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#2952199 - 10/09/18 03:17 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
David Emm Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/14/12
Posts: 1254
Loc: Solder Huffer's Gulch
#1: Ask your chiro. I had a good one who rescued me from walking around bent over like a $#@! comma at one point.
#2: Apply the info across the board, including your supports when driving.
#3: When people ask for help moving, grab your back and scream "AAIEEE! AN OLD MAN'S BACK!!!" Now you have a valid reason for refusing and none may say ye "Nay."
#4: Do as I had to do and give up all of your heavy gear for lightly-weighted synths, XKeys and, say, a pair of QuNexii. Trust me: its not an ideal situation, but your previous piano and organ skills WILL follow you.
#5: Promise your possible choice of deity all sorts of impossible things in exchange for magical spine maintenance.
#6: Draw some comfort from the collective sympathy & good will of the brotherhood here, since virtually none of us has escaped the ravages of gear hauling. Dave Stewart even wrote a superior instrumental about it called "The Mind Your Backs Tango!" grin

The Mind Your Backs Tango
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#2952204 - 10/09/18 03:26 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: David Emm]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7040
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Thanks Boys, "back" at ya.. Ha ha ha . Hey a corny joke is not worse than no joke.
_________________________
"Live and let live", at least for me, has always has been a meaningless platitude, that is, until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

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#2952205 - 10/09/18 03:29 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7040
Loc: S. Ca. USA
I tried a drum throne, whose back was short, did not touch your back from midway to above, but DID strongly support the small of the back. Since small of back is under attack, I was tempted.
I have a SEVEN hour gig on Thanksgiving, I will have paramedics in waiting.
_________________________
"Live and let live", at least for me, has always has been a meaningless platitude, that is, until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

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#2952254 - 10/09/18 06:24 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Ledbetter Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 291
Loc: California
I have a very bad back—degenerative disks. I got this seat and the back pictured in “frequently bought together” halfway down on the left side of the page. Great chair for the back, but weighs a ton. You pay your money and take your choice.

https://www.amazon.com/K-M-Stands-14047-Performance/dp/B004UEMY2O
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#2952255 - 10/09/18 06:24 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
ShadowMan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 197
I have several bad discs and a few years ago sprang for a Roc N Soc drum throne with the seat back. It was the best money I ever spent. I used to be hunched over in pain after a 3-4 hour gig, but not any more - as it's height adjustable and I can position the seat back firmly against my lower back. I highly recommend it!

I also agree with downsizing to lighter pieces of gear. Most of my gear is now under 35-40 lbs even in cases, which is far more manageable.

Also... lift with your legs, and get regular chiropractic adjustments!

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#2952309 - 10/10/18 05:18 AM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: ShadowMan]
Rod S Offline
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Registered: 12/12/00
Posts: 3112
Loc: São Paulo, Brasil
I've had back issues at different points in my life, and I've found that sometimes a chiro has the best approach and sometimes I need a orthopedist.

Often either are dismissive of the other, so you'll have to decide what to do, but I like to hear both points of view and know my options.
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#2952326 - 10/10/18 06:42 AM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Rod S]
Mogut Offline
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Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 2013
Loc: Michigan
its the teardown that gets me. By 2am my back is a wreck.
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#2952340 - 10/10/18 07:35 AM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Ledbetter]
Wastrel Offline
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Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 2676
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Ledbetter
Great chair for the back, but weighs a ton.

Sounds like a self-defeating solution.
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#2952349 - 10/10/18 08:17 AM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Wastrel]
Gary75 Offline
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#2952359 - 10/10/18 09:52 AM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Gary75]
Six-string-man Offline
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Registered: 08/06/13
Posts: 1498
Loc: U.K.
+1 for the Roc'n'Soc. I have a standard model, plus the model with wheels on, so that I can roll from the keyboard stack to any other piece of equipment that I want to use.

The alternative would be to get a supportive computer chair, there isn't a huge price difference.
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#2952371 - 10/10/18 10:46 AM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Wastrel]
tarkus Offline
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Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 2133
Loc: MIAMI, Fl
I will probably opt for a 24" bar stool. Light-weight, somewhat comfortable and dual purpose with my guitar and bass playing.
as for wellness, yoga - with a good practitioner - seems to have reversing properties.

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#2952382 - 10/10/18 11:46 AM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: tarkus]
MoKen Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 248
Loc: Chico, CA
I'm 65, degenerative disks in the neck, worked construction many years and still do woodworking, house repairs, etc. I went through all the approaches (and a lot of pain) about 15 years ago. Finally stumbled across a good physical therapist who got my muscles loosened up and started me on flexibility stretches. I do them religiously. If I skip a couple of days, I pay for it.

Yoga doesn't work for me although it's worth a try.

The important thing is to find a way to get flexible and stay flexible. You'll probably need to strengthen some muscles you've never heard of along the way.

And of course, posture. A drum throne works for me and is not too bad for loading in an out. If I'm sitting correctly, I never touch the back.

As someone already said, look at your car seat. If you spend much time driving, that can be a killer. Our car seats are designed to screw up our backs.

Frequent stretching also pumps blood and other good stuff into the area. As we age, that is not taken care of the way it was when we were younger.

If your pain is in the lower back, look at your belly. Losing a beer belly (if you have one) can go a long ways to alleviating problems. That's hard to do but worth the effort.

My experience was that I avoided certain movements to avoid pain, which in turn decreased my flexibility, causing more pain. For me, it was very important to break this cycle and learn to stay flexible.

YMMV. Good luck.

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#2952419 - 10/10/18 04:32 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: MoKen]
Piktor Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 353
Loc: Edmonton, Canada
Lower back disk protrusions here...
I agree with daily stretching (don't forget feet and legs), checking out the drum throne with a lower back support, conscious sitting (stand/stretch to take micro breaks) and lightening the load (much easier to do today vs the 1970s).

I have a couple additional suggestions:
- Try placing a rolled hand or dish towel at the small of your back when you sit or drive).
- While working at the sink, open the lower cabinet door and place one foot inside the cabinet to elevate it slightly.
- Build core strength (lots of suggestions online) and engage your core whenever you move (not just when you lift).
- If you can, try different physiotherapists (I'm not big on chiro myself) until you find one that gives you solutions. An effective physio should give you treatment AND exercises), and then you won't have to keep going back to see them. Chiropracters, on the other hand, expect you to keep returning for tuneups. Chances are, you might be able to do all the necessary adjustments and maintenance yourself. I did have one sports physio give me exercises that hurt me, so do find one that does an accurate assessment.
- One of my physiotherapists also did acupuncture and traction. The latter was helpful in lengthening the spaces between disks. If necessary, I can tune that up by holding myself up at the corner of the kitchen counter and letting my legs dangle.
- Finally, while I feel about 20 years younger than I am, it may be that none of what I suggested would work for you. However, I hope you are as fortunate as I am in getting the rights pieces in place.

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#2952621 - 10/11/18 02:28 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Piktor]
Ledbetter Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 291
Loc: California
Yes, the chair I linked to is heavy. Should also mention Get a Rolling Cart or dolly to minimize wear and tear.
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#2952640 - 10/11/18 04:20 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Ledbetter]
xKnuckles Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/24/13
Posts: 1750
Loc: United Kingdom
Take up yoga. These videos are great and will help anyone with back problems. Do it GENTLY! Don't push yourself .... start with very minimal movements and just do what feels ok. If there is any pain then stop immediately. You can always just watch the video to start with and only do the bits that feel ok/good.
Namaste yoga season 1
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#2952749 - 10/12/18 12:57 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Piktor]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7040
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: Piktor
Lower back disk protrusions here...
I agree with daily stretching (don't forget feet and legs), checking out the drum throne with a lower back support, conscious sitting (stand/stretch to take micro breaks) and lightening the load (much easier to do today vs the 1970s).

I have a couple additional suggestions:
- Try placing a rolled hand or dish towel at the small of your back when you sit or drive).
- While working at the sink, open the lower cabinet door and place one foot inside the cabinet to elevate it slightly.
- Build core strength (lots of suggestions online) and engage your core whenever you move (not just when you lift).
- If you can, try different physiotherapists (I'm not big on chiro myself) until you find one that gives you solutions. An effective physio should give you treatment AND exercises), and then you won't have to keep going back to see them. Chiropracters, on the other hand, expect you to keep returning for tuneups. Chances are, you might be able to do all the necessary adjustments and maintenance yourself. I did have one sports physio give me exercises that hurt me, so do find one that does an accurate assessment.
- One of my physiotherapists also did acupuncture and traction. The latter was helpful in lengthening the spaces between disks. If necessary, I can tune that up by holding myself up at the corner of the kitchen counter and letting my legs dangle.
- Finally, while I feel about 20 years younger than I am, it may be that none of what I suggested would work for you. However, I hope you are as fortunate as I am in getting the rights pieces in place.


You mention many likely good things:
Instead of a rolled towel in back of car seat i use a cushion designed for this purpose.
But the thing is, when playing keys on a gig, what kind of a stool/ seat, accommodates such a measure? It seems like when playing keys, your lower back separates ( from seemingly necessary forward motion of torso ) from the cushion, designed to support the back!
_________________________
"Live and let live", at least for me, has always has been a meaningless platitude, that is, until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

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#2952750 - 10/12/18 01:09 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Six-string-man Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/06/13
Posts: 1498
Loc: U.K.
The Roc'n'Soc back rest protrudes forward and supports the small of my back as I play. I do need to move the stool slightly closer to the keyboard than normal though, so I have to move my pedals a bit further back.
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#2952795 - 10/12/18 07:24 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Six-string-man]
rickp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 305
The best solution I’ve found is a hydraulic/pneumatic throne base with roc n soc seat. The primary difference is the base ... there is something about that little bit of forgiving air cushion in the throne base that makes all the difference. And being able to easily change the height between songs with just a lever pull can sometimes help an ache that’s creeping in.

Seat back is not necessary, just give your butt a bit of forgiveness in the seating surface rigidity and you’ll notice a huge improvement in how your lower back feels at the end of a show.

Long haul truckers and heavy equipment operators have known the pneumatic seat base secret for a long time - now it’s available to us.
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#2952809 - 10/12/18 11:52 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Piktor Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 353
Loc: Edmonton, Canada
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
You mention many likely good things:
Instead of a rolled towel in back of car seat i use a cushion designed for this purpose.
But the thing is, when playing keys on a gig, what kind of a stool/ seat, accommodates such a measure? It seems like when playing keys, your lower back separates ( from seemingly necessary forward motion of torso ) from the cushion, designed to support the back!

The Roc'n Soc stool looks pretty good. Though it doesn't have the Roc 'n Soc's hydraulic feature, I have been using a Pearl D-2500BR Drummersitz stool and I can get its back pad positioned to support the lower back area where I would normally place a rolled towel on my car seat. I don't find a need for the towel when I sit on the Pearl seat. I don't lean back onto the back rest constantly, but it's there when I need it. I also stand for a moment between songs when I need to. I have learned (the hard way) to avoid bending forward from the small of the back or twisting at the hip for extended periods while seated. No more Bill Evans/Keith Jarrett imitations. If I am playing organ bass pedals, I find it much better for my back to use an actual organ bench. Though for years I wished that I could have traded my M100 up to a B3, now I'm grateful that I didn't spend those 30 years lifting the extra 200+ pounds. Now, if I could just figure out a way to stop aggravating the tennis elbow that I have had for almost two years (grrrrr) ...
Good luck with the quest to find solutions for your back situation T.

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#2952841 - 10/13/18 08:43 AM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: tarkus]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7040
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: tarkus
I will probably opt for a 24" bar stool. Light-weight, somewhat comfortable and dual purpose with my guitar and bass playing.
as for wellness, yoga - with a good practitioner - seems to have reversing properties.


The Wrestler turned therapist ( Diamond something ) did a miraculous job on the injured war vet. Have you looked into his methods and diet?
_________________________
"Live and let live", at least for me, has always has been a meaningless platitude, that is, until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

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#2952874 - 10/13/18 02:03 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Piktor]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7040
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: Piktor
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
You mention many likely good things:
Instead of a rolled towel in back of car seat i use a cushion designed for this purpose.
But the thing is, when playing keys on a gig, what kind of a stool/ seat, accommodates such a measure? It seems like when playing keys, your lower back separates ( from seemingly necessary forward motion of torso ) from the cushion, designed to support the back!

The Roc'n Soc stool looks pretty good. Though it doesn't have the Roc 'n Soc's hydraulic feature, I have been using a Pearl D-2500BR Drummersitz stool and I can get its back pad positioned to support the lower back area where I would normally place a rolled towel on my car seat. I don't find a need for the towel when I sit on the Pearl seat. I don't lean back onto the back rest constantly, but it's there when I need it. I also stand for a moment between songs when I need to. I have learned (the hard way) to avoid bending forward from the small of the back or twisting at the hip for extended periods while seated. No more Bill Evans/Keith Jarrett imitations. If I am playing organ bass pedals, I find it much better for my back to use an actual organ bench. Though for years I wished that I could have traded my M100 up to a B3, now I'm grateful that I didn't spend those 30 years lifting the extra 200+ pounds. Now, if I could just figure out a way to stop aggravating the tennis elbow that I have had for almost two years (grrrrr) ...
Good luck with the quest to find solutions for your back situation T.


Did you say the extra 200 lbs? Google says, 310 lbs and with bench and pedals 425!!
_________________________
"Live and let live", at least for me, has always has been a meaningless platitude, that is, until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

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#2952881 - 10/13/18 03:02 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7040
Loc: S. Ca. USA
A shout out, thank you to like tarkus for this very helpful podcast

Since the full interview seemed difficult to display on YT.. Through a little effort I finally found it. A Joe Rogan podcast.
In this interview, the guest, former pro wrestler Diamond Dallas Page, tells how two of the cushions in his spine were gone. That means bone on bone. Fortunately he eschewed fusing of his vertebrae and by a kindly accident, discovered his own version of Dynamic tension, yoga, and calisthenics. He has not only miraculously helped the wounded vet, but other seriously wounded wrestlers.
I have not had the MRI , but an X Ray suggests serious degeneration in my lower spine and arthritis. I can tell you the pain I felt in the spine, blew my mind- sure seemed like bone on bone to me! Thankfully it only lasted in tiniest split seconds, after which you freeze and move very carefully. If that pain ( to me it feels like bone on bone, not muscular at all ) ever lasted longer than it did, I would not be typing now, but be under heaviest pain klillers in a hospital. Unbearably painful stuff.
The chiropractor has taken me away from that kind of threat of pain for now. I will have to see her for life.
But I am interested in this video and what hope it holds. We are all aging, and believe me, I was a strong guy, but that spine issue, will make you an invalid in a second.
So this post is for those of you who wish to avoid fusing of spine and the like.

So far, it has been 10-15 chiropractic visits plus very sparing use of 1 or 2 Advil.
I am still learning about pain killers, and the double edged sword they hold on health. If on a pain killer you have potential to injure yourself, and not know it till later. But apparently they can help too. I was told use both, of course chiropractor tried to dissuade me. But I have only taken maybe a total of 9-10 pills to date. After my back is 100% pain free, she is going to give me exercises... likely stretching ( like Yoga ) and strengthening even later on.



Edited by I-missRichardTee (10/13/18 03:12 PM)
_________________________
"Live and let live", at least for me, has always has been a meaningless platitude, that is, until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

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#2952891 - 10/13/18 04:32 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Ross Ward Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Tulsa, OK
Check out SoundSeat . Gas lift seats for musicians, with multiple back and other options. I've got two, one of which I've had for almost ten years and expect it to last probably another 20. Great quality product made in North Carolina, if that matters to you.

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#2952892 - 10/13/18 04:32 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Piktor Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 353
Loc: Edmonton, Canada
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Did you say the extra 200 lbs? Google says, 310 lbs and with bench and pedals 425!!

Let's just say that I was giving estimates in "Canadian pounds". whistle

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#2952928 - 10/14/18 06:14 AM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Piktor]
WesG Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/16/13
Posts: 3435
Loc: Inverary, ON, Canada
Moving a B3 isn't much harder than moving an M100. It's about an extra 80-90 lbs depending on vintage. The trick, of course, is to own the right equipment. I never spend more than 2 minutes lifting per night. Usually I don't lift at all.

John, the 425 lbs figure includes the shipping crate.

Wes
_________________________
Hammond: L111, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, B3
Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 31H
Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85
Roland: VR-09
Band Site: http://DrBombay.ca/

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#2952933 - 10/14/18 08:17 AM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: WesG]
Piktor Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 353
Loc: Edmonton, Canada
Wes, I guess the key thing is having the right equipment. I was trying to compare my experiences lifting a chopped B3 by the handles versus lifting a chopped M100 by the handles. i.e. No wheels, etc. I am not beefy, but I used to lift and carry my Rhodes stage piano by myself when I couldn't find a helping hand and carry keys in heavy single-handled cases two at a time. I had never even heard of core strength, let alone making efforts to built it. Many any years of that behaviour led to my disk protrusions and this discussion of stools with back supports.

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#2952947 - 10/14/18 10:41 AM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Piktor]
WesG Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/16/13
Posts: 3435
Loc: Inverary, ON, Canada
Ah, yes...B3 chops are very unwieldy. Chopped spinets are a piece of cake! You just use a convertible hand truck and a single ratchet strap. Good handles make stairs easy work as well, I like the Penn-Elcom spring-loaded handles with 3/4" bails.

I still have a chopped L100 in my inventory in case I need to do another gig up multiple flights of stairs. My current favourite gigger is a highly-modified CV that has some serious balls and an intact cabinet. Okay, well, not 100% intact, one of the glue joints let go 3-4 shows ago and the ROKs + pedal switch housing are all that's holding it together. wink

I just noticed, that L100 is in my profile pic.
Wes


Edited by WesG (10/14/18 10:41 AM)
_________________________
Hammond: L111, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, B3
Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 31H
Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85
Roland: VR-09
Band Site: http://DrBombay.ca/

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#2952954 - 10/14/18 01:50 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: Ledbetter]
El Lobo Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/23/14
Posts: 1008
Originally Posted By: Ledbetter
https://www.amazon.com/K-M-Stands-14047-Performance/dp/B004UEMY2O
I just got this seat. I like it. I play standing up and it adjusts to any height (higher than I would ever need it to be) on a pneumatic tube. Comfortable seat, adjustable foot rest (9 height positions), and folds up for easy transport and less room in the car. I'll use it at tonight's gig. Thanks for the link Ledbetter.

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#2952971 - 10/14/18 05:26 PM Re: Spinal aid- seats for the aging. [Re: El Lobo]
Ledbetter Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 291
Loc: California
Glad it worked out, Lobo. It’s heavy and expensive, but I doubt I’ll ever wear mine out, and it transports easy on a rock n roller cart.
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Kawai KG-2C, Nord Electro 4D, 5D and Lead 2x, Moog Voyager, Some Slim Phatties, Roland Lucina, Hohner Piano Melodica, Spacestation V3

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