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Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Markyboard] #2960785 12/01/18 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: Markyboard


Btw digital control of Voyager was done by a different group...i.e. Rudi Linhard.


Point taken. But they hired the right guy for the gig and I trust the One is in similarly capable hands. My unedited response to Theo was similar to yours. Just not as diplomatic.

KC Island
Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: mate stubb] #2960791 12/01/18 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Got it together to make init patches. The canvas is vast with this one. It's gonna make me raise my programming game like I haven't done since the Chroma.



You will no doubt, astute person that you are, discover these things, but to save you some trial and error:
1. Merely switching on a saw wave does not give you the "buzziest saw". The oscillators are quite malleable. For maximum "buzz", either choose saw, turn the wave shaping fully counter clockwise and bring in a little very thin pulse with the mix knob. OR do the same but counterintuitively choose triangle, turn the wave shaping knob fully clockwise to make a ramp and then bring in a little thin pulse. There former, when you dial in the pulse, will attenuate the lower harmonics and excite the upper, while the latter will leave the lower harmonics more or less alone and excite the upper. The oscillators in general have really strong fundamentals and lower harmonics. This is a good thing.

2. The ladder filter with resonance up steals more low end than the average Moog ladder, which steals some. The SVF is your friend for adding that back in if you wish. You can also modulate the resonance amount using keypitch as a source. In general, I think of the filters as a "filter section" and almost always use both in one configuration or another.

3. The default envelopes are linear and it makes a huge difference to tweak the curves.

4. Some of the routing vis a vis the inserts can be confusing - if something sounds odd, check there. The inserts are highly useful though.

5. Points #1, #2, and #3 are the reason people got the unit, turned it on, dialed up a typical Minimoog patch and declared that it did not sound vintage. You can get it to sound pretty vintage even though it is really its own thing and not 16 Model D's in a box. By now some of my older synths sound somewhat quaint, albeit in a good way.

6. The effects are indeed usable, if not perfect - the presets have some less than optimal settings. Levels and wet/dry mix are particularly crucial. I think in general I prefer using outboard effects, but if/when I use it live I will certainly make use of the Eventide verbs and the delays. This area of the instrument should and no doubt will be seeing improvements including the ability to address parameters in the mod matrix.

Happy playing/programming/writing!!!!!!!!


Moog The One, VV 64 EP, Wurlies 200A 140 7300, Forte 7, Mojo 61, OB-6, Prophet 6, Polaris, Hammond A100, Farfisa VIP, ,Young Chang 6', Voyager, E7 Clav, Midiboard, Linnstrument, Seaboard
Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Phil Aiken] #2960794 12/01/18 12:49 PM
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I've listened to some of the seemingly quality made videos of the latest Moog, and though some sounds to me sounded al right, the remark I made came from listening to the sounds and thinking about the signal path. I like a good Moog sound, but I'm of the school that presumes certain studio signal processing norms to be connected, or simply a great sound. I heard neither very much. It's a well known problem that you need one of the good guys to control all those signals that together make a programmable analog synth, and you'll have digital controls affecting the sound quite a bit on top of the "making the minimoog programmable" (and convincing people "the sound is the same"). That's a technical given. The way the Moog one is put together, and the way the various pieces of interesting electronics sound do not give me the feeling that we've mastered and progressed from the classical Moog sound possibilities in terms of being able to imitate the great sounds of well known Moogs, or producing more complicated setups than a modular in the studio.

Doesn't mean this instrument can't make any good sounds, but calling it the way it is called makes me want more. A lot more.

T.

Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Theo Verelst] #2960798 12/01/18 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Theo Verelst
It's a well known problem that you need one of the good guys to control all those signals that together make a programmable analog synth, and you'll have digital controls affecting the sound quite a bit on top of the "making the minimoog programmable" (and convincing people "the sound is the same"). That's a technical given. The way the Moog one is put together, and the way the various pieces of interesting electronics sound do not give me the feeling that we've mastered and progressed from the classical Moog sound possibilities in terms of being able to imitate the great sounds of well known Moogs, or producing more complicated setups than a modular in the studio.

Doesn't mean this instrument can't make any good sounds, but calling it the way it is called makes me want more. A lot more.

T.


Ah, I see where you're point of view is coming from. I just never assumed or paid attention to the marketing indicating their goal was to recreate the sound of the Minimoog or an older modular in polyphonic programmable form. I think if you go in with this expectation you will be disappointed;no different than it was for the Memorymoog and Voyager.

To me it comes down to do I like the sound of the synth on its own merits? You apparently don't and I respect your opinion. For me...no idea, I'd have to play One.

Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Markyboard] #2960818 12/01/18 04:12 PM
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@Phil -

Been following your posts closely on der SluttyGeer forum. In general I am finding my way around without reading the manual.

Can't make timbres load into synth 2 or 3 for some reason. I am selecting synth 1 on the panel before trying to do it but it ends up in synth 1.


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Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: mate stubb] #2960827 12/01/18 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: mate stubb
@Phil -

Been following your posts closely on der SluttyGeer forum. In general I am finding my way around without reading the manual.

Can't make timbres load into synth 2 or 3 for some reason. I am selecting synth 1 on the panel before trying to do it but it ends up in synth 1.


With synth 2 as the active synth, browse presets, find the timbre you wish to import, and bring it in. The imports ALWAYS go to the active synth. If I misunderstand you, PM me....


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Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Phil Aiken] #2960829 12/01/18 05:20 PM
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The thing about the inserts, is that they are not really inserts, they are really aux sends. They work fine but should really be labeled Aux 1, Aux 2, etc.
The pre-insert dry signal still goes to the Main outputs unless you actively shut it off. So in addition to what you expect to hear, the effected signal, you are hearing the dry. This is confusing until you know about it, then it isn't.
After you shut the synth off at the mains, you are hearing what you would expect, but there is no way that I have found to control the return volume from within the One. I have put in a feature request for that. You should be able to modulate or at the very least adjust it.


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Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Phil Aiken] #2960834 12/01/18 05:27 PM
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For kicks, unscientifically and by ear only, I took a random Model D patch I was using and tried to match it on the One. I think I got pretty close, but they are noticeably different in that the One is some how more meaty. It also actually sounds in some way more "real" and tangible. I should look at the spectrums and see if some EQ makes it closer, but you would really need that EQ to track the keyboard.
The thing is though, that a Minimoog sounds like a Minimoog, and BEHAVES like a Minimoog. It is one thing to match a patch, but another when you start there and begin to twiddle knobs. If you twiddle the same knobs in the same way on the One you get different results. Very different instruments.

Last edited by Phil Aiken; 12/01/18 05:29 PM.

Moog The One, VV 64 EP, Wurlies 200A 140 7300, Forte 7, Mojo 61, OB-6, Prophet 6, Polaris, Hammond A100, Farfisa VIP, ,Young Chang 6', Voyager, E7 Clav, Midiboard, Linnstrument, Seaboard
Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Phil Aiken] #2960945 12/02/18 05:05 PM
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I don't generally dislike the sounds I've heard on a number of demos, but I don't think it will be the squared Moog paradigm some might be looking for. That's my assessment, I don't think it's an opinion. Lots of more modern Moog products aren't my cup of tea for some part, which isn't necessarily wrong, it's just that it's easy to play a game with the Moog name.

T.

Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Theo Verelst] #2961790 12/07/18 11:19 PM
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Update: I've decided to return the One.

It does everything it promised - great sound, shake-the-walls-bass, incredible flexibility, great UI. But I'm not bonding with it.

The last time I sat at a complicated poly synth and spent countless hours learning to program it was 30 years ago when I bought my beloved Chroma. I find that now I don't enjoy sound design very much, and the Moog requires you to work for your supper more than a somewhat more limited synth.

I just don't think I'll devote the time to this synth that it deserves. It DOES make me wish my Chromas were still working.

And although the Moog has been described as having voices with almost modular-like flexibility, it doesn't scratch my modular itch either. While I don't enjoy sound design, I can zone out patching a modular for hours making my bleeps and bloops. Go figure.

I think for my purposes, a more limited but immediate analog poly like a Prophet 6 or OB6 will scratch the analog itch, and a nice sounding digital like a Blofeld will cover a lot of the more outlandish stuff you can coax from the Moog.

Am I nutz?


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Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: mate stubb] #2961796 12/08/18 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Update: I've decided to return the One.

It does everything it promised - great sound, shake-the-walls-bass, incredible flexibility, great UI. But I'm not bonding with it.

The last time I sat at a complicated poly synth and spent countless hours learning to program it was 30 years ago when I bought my beloved Chroma. I find that now I don't enjoy sound design very much, and the Moog requires you to work for your supper more than a somewhat more limited synth.

I just don't think I'll devote the time to this synth that it deserves. It DOES make me wish my Chromas were still working.

And although the Moog has been described as having voices with almost modular-like flexibility, it doesn't scratch my modular itch either. While I don't enjoy sound design, I can zone out patching a modular for hours making my bleeps and bloops. Go figure.

I think for my purposes, a more limited but immediate analog poly like a Prophet 6 or OB6 will scratch the analog itch, and a nice sounding digital like a Blofeld will cover a lot of the more outlandish stuff you can coax from the Moog.

Am I nutz?


If you are not bonding with it and are convinced that you absolutely won't before your return period is up you'd be nutz NOT to return it. It is expensive for a modern synth.

I was prepared to do just that if I didn't see myself enjoying it for many years. I am pretty bonded with it already, have only turned on my other synths to play around with mimicking them, and don't think the learning curve is all that steep other than some non-intuitive routing behavior. I do agree that it requires you to work for your supper, but once you have that recipe filed away, you no longer have to work for that particular dish.

You are the single best judge of what works for you and what does not. If you do decide to buy a Prophet 6 or OB6 I am going to sell one of them (have not decided which) so shoot me a PM. smile


Moog The One, VV 64 EP, Wurlies 200A 140 7300, Forte 7, Mojo 61, OB-6, Prophet 6, Polaris, Hammond A100, Farfisa VIP, ,Young Chang 6', Voyager, E7 Clav, Midiboard, Linnstrument, Seaboard
Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Phil Aiken] #2961803 12/08/18 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: Phil Aiken
If you do decide to buy a Prophet 6 or OB6 I am going to sell one of them (have not decided which) so shoot me a PM. smile


Hmmm. Desktop or kbd?


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Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: mate stubb] #2961830 12/08/18 08:03 AM
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At somepoint some manufacturer / quality software maker should come up with something new, change the game, and in good Rock spirit demolish it on stage....

TV

Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: mate stubb] #2961849 12/08/18 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Update: I've decided to return the One.

Am I nutz?


Not necessarily. If it doesn't inspire you it's a very pricey collector's item. The first time I sat down to an OBX it pulled notes out of my fingers that I'd never played before. The One should do that and for $8k, if it doesn't, send it back. You can't go wrong with either the OB-6 or Prophet 6, though it was the Prophet that spoke to me. Those are lovely instruments.

Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: ksoper] #2961855 12/08/18 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: ksoper
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Update: I've decided to return the One.

Am I nutz?


Not necessarily. If it doesn't inspire you it's a very pricey collector's item. The first time I sat down to an OBX it pulled notes out of my fingers that I'd never played before. The One should do that and for $8k, if it doesn't, send it back. You can't go wrong with either the OB-6 or Prophet 6, though it was the Prophet that spoke to me. Those are lovely instruments.

Same here regarding the Prophet. The Moog One is waaay more synth than I need.


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Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Moonglow] #2961860 12/08/18 12:54 PM
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Not gonna lie, that makes me feel better. laugh


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Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: MAJUSCULE] #2961880 12/08/18 04:01 PM
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In an ideal world, I'd have time to play with a modular and do the endless patch thing. In this world, having just lost my aunt, being deeply embroiled in Phase III of the master bathroom rebuild, and having had my AV system blow up, I just don't have time to do that much fiddly stuff. Sucks, but there it is. Throw in the holidays and the fact that I play Poppa-Taxi for the kids and...I hate to say it but presets are my best friend. Hell, I haven't played keyboards in probably two or three weeks and guitar only perhaps a total of thirty minutes. That's pitiful.

Based on what you guys are saying I can see how the One would be a time sucker and will regretfully/thankfully--at least for now--back away from the idea of trying to beg/borrow/steal enough money to buy one.

*sigh*

Grey


I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.
Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: mate stubb] #2962139 12/10/18 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Originally Posted By: Phil Aiken
If you do decide to buy a Prophet 6 or OB6 I am going to sell one of them (have not decided which) so shoot me a PM. smile


Hmmm. Desktop or kbd?


P6 Desktop, OB6 keyboard. Part of my decision will be based on that. But I could get talked into either. Nice to have a module, nice to have a good smaller keyboard. Before the One, I'd have thought of them both as indispensable, but I no longer do. I don't need all 3.

Towards your "catching the modular itch", have you thought about a Matrixbrute? I sold mine to fund the One, but that was the niche it filled, and I miss it.


Moog The One, VV 64 EP, Wurlies 200A 140 7300, Forte 7, Mojo 61, OB-6, Prophet 6, Polaris, Hammond A100, Farfisa VIP, ,Young Chang 6', Voyager, E7 Clav, Midiboard, Linnstrument, Seaboard
Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Phil Aiken] #2962140 12/10/18 02:04 PM
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I remain thrilled with it. It sounds better and better with experience, and it is a joy to play. I also look forward to new developments, and full midi/cv implementation, which should be in weeks, not months.


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Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Phil Aiken] #2962151 12/10/18 03:32 PM
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I can't imagine not being really pleased with the Moog One. If I had the $$$$ I would buy one. Maybe its because I miss my OBX and the OBXa I bought after the OBX. Alas, they were both expensive keys in those days and I was in hock up to my ears.

And Phil, I'm on board with your love for the MatrixBrute. What a power house monster synth. I believe the Moog fills a different role, a poly synth vs primarily a 3 OSC mono synth. It is a wall shaker with endless mod matrix possibilities. In either case, I would probably only come out of my music room to use the bathroom.


Cheers!


Mike T.

Last edited by MikeT156; 12/10/18 03:32 PM.

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Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: MikeT156] #2964700 12/24/18 06:22 AM
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Asheville, NC, home to Moog, is just a couple of hours up the road from me. When my wife suggested a holiday trip up there for the weekend, I was all for it. It's a beautiful town and the fact that I was born a short distance away means that mountains look "right" to me. I feel most at home in that area.

With that in mind I spent an enjoyable half-hour at the Moog store on Saturday, 12/22. The majority of that time was spent on their demo One, trying to get some sense of whether it deserved a position on my GAS list. To be honest, the demo videos I've seen have not moved me, but given that I tend to favor the Moog house sound over other synth companies, I wanted to give the keyboard a fair shake.

CAVEAT: As soon as I told the guys behind the counter that I wanted to try the One, they responded that the evaluation unit wasn't their usual one; that theirs was in back to get the latest software/firmware/hardware/whatever updates and that the unit on the floor was a pre-production prototype that didn't fully reflect the current production sound. Specifically, the signal wasn't as "hot." It didn't drive the filters, etc. as hard and was lacking some growl or however you want to phrase it.

With that in mind, I sat down to play. My approach--especially given that I had four other people with me who don't quite share my passion for making music--was to run through the presets, with the idea that they will be chosen to show off what the synth can do. Yes, I know that some would rather have spent their time twisting knobs, but I could have spent my entire afternoon trying to create a single sound, rather than getting a broad overview, which is what I wanted.

In short, I just didn't connect with it. This is something of a WTF moment for me, because I generally respond well to Moog's stuff and for me to have such a tepid response was a bit of a shock.

So what's wrong? It's subjective, so what I feel (or don't feel, as the case may be) is going to be hard to articulate, but the One seems to lack the organic gestalt that other Moogs have; the sense that I was hearing sounds that, while obviously of electronic origin, had that indefinable something that gives you the impression that those sounds could have come from nature. It sounds artificial. It lacks soul. The One is a machine and sounds like one.

I want to emphasize that the very thing that isn't working for me is very likely to be the exact quality that will draw others to it. It's as though Moog infused 20% of the DNA of a Dave Smith synth into a Voyager in an attempt to appeal to a different market segment. In that, they were successful, but in doing so they lost what makes a Moog a Moog, at least to my ears.

I very much like the fact that it's polyphonic, but that's not enough to make me want a One. Not by itself. Not for that price.

The interface is sexy and modern. Straightforward to use.

But...dammit...the sound of the thing just didn't work for me.

Read my caveat above. Then perhaps read it again. Would driving the internal circuitry harder make it work for me...or for you? To be honest, I don't think that's going to make the One a must-have item for me. I suspect that my gut reaction would still be pretty much like it was Saturday--I left the Moog store without a backwards glance. No yearning. No GAS. No tug on the heartstrings. No making of plans to rob banks in order to fund the purchase.

I feel disloyal for saying that, given how much I love my theremin, Little Phatty, Voyager, and Behringer D...all units that sound, to my ears, the way a Moog should sound. But I'm not going to lie and say that I'm in love with the thing when I'm not.

Now, that big Keith Emerson synth in the corner? Yeah, that's talking to me. No, I didn't get to mess with it. It wasn't hooked up to play. Rats.

Those of you who get off on the DSI house sound should get serious about trying the One. Once you leave the organic, "might be an alternate universe natural sound" requirement behind, then I think the One becomes a more viable option.

Me? I think I'll save my money. Don't get me wrong, I wish Moog the best and hope they sell plenty of Ones, but it's not for me.

Grey

Last edited by GRollins; 12/24/18 06:27 AM.

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.
Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: GRollins] #2964745 12/24/18 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
In short, I just didn't connect with it. It sounds artificial. It lacks soul. The One is a machine and sounds like one. The sound of the thing just didn't work for me. Those of you who get off on the DSI house sound should get serious about trying the One. Once you leave the organic, "might be an alternate universe natural sound" requirement behind, then I think the One becomes a more viable option.
Thanks very much for sharing your experiences. I was on the original waiting list for the One, but have deferred several times because it is missing an important feature (yes Markyboard, that one!) in its MIDI implementation. Now I am glad that I will have to wait until after NAMM, and will get to try one out before actually completing the purchase. But yes, you have to bond with a synth; like you I never really liked the DSI filters, until the P6 and OB-6. I currently have a Novation Peak, and it is quite possible that it will work as well at filling the analog poly itch as the Moog that costs more than 6x as much.

Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Marzzz] #2964761 12/24/18 01:56 PM
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laugh

Totally agree with the bonding thing. Just not sure how you know if you're relying on someone else's taste and idea of sweet spot. How often do we hear "...presets suck" when often individual taste is what it comes down to.

Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Markyboard] #2964767 12/24/18 02:34 PM
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For me, there's a certain amount of momentum just in the Moog name. As one who has liked so many of their products in the past, I wanted to like it simply because it's a Moog. Only, the YouTube demo videos weren't grabbing me and I couldn't understand why. Some people said--rightly--that it might be the audio quality of the videos over the web. Fair enough. But now that I've had a chance to hear a One up close and personal, I find that the YouTube audio wasn't the problem. It was the synth itself.

Again: It's possible...nay, probable...that the things that don't work for me about the One are the very things that will be the most vital selling points for others. Everyone is going to have to make their own decision on this--just be aware that this isn't a typical Moog in terms of sound quality. Whether that's good or bad will vary with the individual.

I reserve the right to change my mind if/when Moog makes changes to the One, but I feel that it's unlikely that the "drive" thing that the Moog guys were talking about is going to be what does it for me.

Grey


I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.
Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: GRollins] #2964770 12/24/18 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: GRollins


With that in mind I spent an enjoyable half-hour at the Moog store on Saturday, 12/22.


Demoing a synth a the Moog store is only slightly better than demoing at a NAMM show. The last time I was there it was too chaotic for me to focus. I touched a Voyager XL and it left me cold. Odd, because I have a Voyager with the same break-out boxes at home. I figured it was the crappy phones, greasy keys, and clamoring tourists.

Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: ksoper] #2964782 12/24/18 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: ksoper


Demoing a synth a the Moog store is only slightly better than demoing at a NAMM show. The last time I was there it was too chaotic for me to focus.


The real question is...what's the most overplayed song/riff in the Moog store?

Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: GRollins] #2964785 12/24/18 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
...

Specifically, the signal wasn't as "hot." It didn't drive the filters, etc. as hard and was lacking some growl or however you want to phrase it.

...

But...dammit...the sound of the thing just didn't work for me.


To be fair, my Memorymoog - and my other vintage moogs - lacks some soul/growl when the levels aren't hot.

Go back when the store has a proper example and do a reassessment.

The sound of the Voyager wasn't exactly a Minimoog but I learned to appreciate what it can do.

Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Markyboard] #2964787 12/24/18 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: Markyboard
The real question is...what's the most overplayed song/riff in the Moog store?


Fur Elise.
Fur Elise.
Fur Elise.

Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: dsetto] #2964788 12/24/18 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: ksoper
Demoing a synth a the Moog store is only slightly better than demoing at a NAMM show. The last time I was there it was too chaotic for me to focus.


That will happen when a crowd following Stevie Wonder is going through the aisle.

Kidding aside, if I want to do some real auditioning I reserve that for the first or last days of NAMM when they aren't so chaotic.

Re: Moog One. The Polyphonic. [Re: Markyboard] #2964792 12/24/18 03:46 PM
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