Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony, Maple, Pau Ferro #2948554
09/16/18 02:06 AM
09/16/18 02:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Mark Schmieder Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
Mark Schmieder  Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
I came upon this information semi-accidentally, as I've been struggling to identify the woods of some South American instruments I purchased (custom luthiers) that were labeled with wood names that don't show up in the wood database and in some cases don't translate either.

https://www.andertons.co.uk/fender-cites-rosewood-pau-ferro

I had noticed that lower-end models of Gibson (I think) and Fender (definitely) were using Pau Ferro fingerboards (aka Morado, Bolivian Ironwood, and many other names), and that higher-end models were more likely to use ebony now.

The article above, confirms what I thought: new CITES rules kicked in this year, and it is no longer economically sustainable for the companies to pay the associated fees and go through the complex applications and paperwork, to continue with Rosewood.

From my own point of view, this is welcome, as I don't like the feel of Rosewood anyway and much prefer both the feel an d the tone, as well as the grain and look, of Pau Ferro (and especially Ebony). Many here might be surprised that I especially dislike Brasilian Rosewood, as I find it too bright and hyper-focused.

Of course, for acoustic guitars, this also has an impact on side/back woods, but there I also rarely prefer Rosewood as it can develop too much bass buildup and boom -- especially in Dreadnought designs. I have a nice Eastman Rosewood Parlour and a Martin OM-28 in Rosewood, but I'm quite looking forward to the exploration of overlooked woods -- including ones that are domestic and plentiful.

Last edited by Mark Schmieder; 09/16/18 06:04 PM.

Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager
GP Island
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948574
09/16/18 08:50 AM
09/16/18 08:50 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11,680
Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
whitefang Offline
10k Club
whitefang  Offline
10k Club

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11,680
Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I'm not well versed in most wood types. Especially in guitar applications.

I DO however, like the look of Mahogany in both guitar construction and furniture. And rosewood, used for the cabinet construction of BANG and OLUFSEN receivers and speakers up until the mid '80's had a real nice look to them.

As for guitar fretboards, I'd think any good looking( to taste) durable wood would suffice.
Whitefang


I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: whitefang] #2948584
09/16/18 11:24 AM
09/16/18 11:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,078
Northern California
Larryz Offline
10k Club
Larryz  Offline
10k Club

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,078
Northern California
I like ebony, maple and rosewood fretboards (in that order). I have never tried pau ferro but SRV liked it, so it must be good LOL! I have one rosewood fretboard on a Takamine parlor guitar that feels very nice. It's from Japan and different from most rosewoods I have ever tried. I'll take ebony every time if I have a choice... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Larryz] #2948590
09/16/18 12:51 PM
09/16/18 12:51 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,036
Near Phoenix Az
D
desertbluesman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
desertbluesman  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
D

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,036
Near Phoenix Az
I tried to sell my Faded SG on Craigslist, and they kept kicking my ad off the site because I detailed the SG as with an ebony fingerboard. Finally I took the word ebony off of the ad and consequently I sold the thing some months later. This is because ebony is an endangered wood so Craigslist would not let me advertise the guitar until I took the word ebony out of the title and out of the ad itself.

https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/

Also Gibson had some problems some years back because of their acquisition and use of ebony. And we talked about that on this forum at that time.

My favorite fingerboard wood is ebony of course, but I can live with maple and rosewood which I have on my remaining guitars.


dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: desertbluesman] #2948631
09/16/18 05:48 PM
09/16/18 05:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Mark Schmieder Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
Mark Schmieder  Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Ah yes, but the manufacturers have all agreed now that the wood is all that matters, not the colour, and that was the main reason that ebony had become scarce was that only the blackest heartwood was kept and the rest thrown out.

Also, there are several woods referred to as ebony, just as rosewood can mean many things (and mahogany as well). But I don't recall which specific ebony varieties are the ones still on (or recently added to) the CITES list.

Clarinets are made from grenadilla and sometimes mpingo, but often is referred to simply as blackwood or African Blackwood, and actually is a member of the rosewood (dalbergia) family anyway! Many mistake it for ebony, but they aren't in the same family.


Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948634
09/16/18 05:50 PM
09/16/18 05:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Mark Schmieder Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
Mark Schmieder  Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Gibson has updated their own wood database marketing spiel to help educate their customers during this rapid transition away from rosewood, which historically has been just about the only wood Gibson has offered (unlike other manufacturers who have had more of a balance of woods in their mix for fingerboard choices).

http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Gear-Tech/en-us/Know-Your-Fingerboards.aspx

It's funny how this is organized under the "lifestyles" section of their website, but didn't the company rebrand themselves this year as a "lifestyle" company instead of a "musical instrument" manufacturer? :-)


Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948665
09/16/18 07:57 PM
09/16/18 07:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,639
Near 12th Street and Vine...
P
picker Offline
10k Club
picker  Offline
10k Club
P

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,639
Near 12th Street and Vine...
I LOVE ebony fretboards. I like them better than pretty much any other. fretboard wood.


Always remember that youíre unique. Just like everyone else.



Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: picker] #2948683
09/16/18 09:40 PM
09/16/18 09:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,014
The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club
Caevan O'Shite  Offline
20k Club

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,014
The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
I love Pau Ferro fretboards, myself!


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2948712
09/17/18 03:23 AM
09/17/18 03:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Mark Schmieder Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
Mark Schmieder  Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Yeah, the big surprise is Pau Ferro, because I had read years ago that many people are allergic to it (specifically to the oils). Martin has been using it for years on their mid-priced guitars, under its Spanish colloquial name "Morado" ("Pau Ferro" is Portuguese for "Wood Iron" or rather "Ironwood" -- specifically in this case, Bolivian Ironwood).

I like it myself, as it is almost as hard and smooth as ebony. I like Maple on anything by Fender (including my Jazzmaster), bass-wise or guitar-wise, but I don't sweat hardly at all so don't have the issue many have with Maple.

Last edited by Mark Schmieder; 09/17/18 09:33 PM.

Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948740
09/17/18 08:38 PM
09/17/18 08:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,355
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
p90jr  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,355
I have Tele that I thought had an ebony fingerboard... black as the night, it is... but according to the Fender database info for that guitar based on the serial number it's actually rosewood.

I have no preference for fretboard wood other than visual based on matching the rest of the guitar in a pleasing way. I can't feel a difference and I certainly can't hear one (the string is sounding off the frets, not the fingerboard).

Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: p90jr] #2948752
09/17/18 09:34 PM
09/17/18 09:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Mark Schmieder Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
Mark Schmieder  Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Aha, try that on a Fretless Bass though. Woof, what a difference!


Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948757
09/17/18 09:55 PM
09/17/18 09:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,920
hurricane hugo Online content
MP Hall of Fame Member
hurricane hugo  Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,920
meh, give me synthetics.

Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948759
09/17/18 09:55 PM
09/17/18 09:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,355
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
p90jr  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,355
well, of course...

I've met guys who play fretless guitars and have fingerboards made out of glass.

Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: p90jr] #2948792
09/18/18 12:23 AM
09/18/18 12:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Mark Schmieder Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
Mark Schmieder  Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
WOW. The only fretless guitars, vs. basses, that I've played have been electric guitar-like versions of sitars and ouds. But they both had rosewood fingerboards.


Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948811
09/18/18 05:13 AM
09/18/18 05:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,349
Japan
S
skipclone 1 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
skipclone 1  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
S

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,349
Japan
There are objective differences in density among woods.
Ebony has been popular among hard rock machines like Ibanez and Charvel-
according to information and reviews, it gives notes better articulation. Synthetics are entirely inert-I have found them cold and unresponsive. Rosewood and maple are softer, I have always liked rosewood. But Brazil in particular has limited exports-last I heard there was only one company which was still licensed for exports. I spoke with a rep two years ago, the situation may have changed. Ironically, my main electric has a maple fretboard and it`s the type I`m least familiar with. I like the feel but it`s very bright. The pickups help compensate, the HSH arrangement has a lot of tonal options.

Glad I did some reading before I said anything else. I was going to mention Jacaranda, but according to one account it`s another name for Brazilian Rosewood. That same account mentioned that ebony and maple have `pop` and attack, but faster decay. Rosewood has more of a `bloom`. From my experience I would tend to concur.
My other main electric is made in Melbourne. The body is Bunya, neck is Australian Blackwood and the fretboard is rosewood-All of those are restricted now. In fact I just checked their website-they are not even offering electrics currently.

Last edited by skipclone 1; 09/18/18 05:48 AM.

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

Skipsounds on Soundclick:
www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948884
09/18/18 02:16 PM
09/18/18 02:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,355
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
p90jr  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,355
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
WOW. The only fretless guitars, vs. basses, that I've played have been electric guitar-like versions of sitars and ouds. But they both had rosewood fingerboards.


I think this is the guy who passed through town with a few of them...

He uses household mirrors... one taken from the mansion of Melvin Belli, he was strangely boasting about...

I've noticed a few other people using glass or mirrored fretboard since then.


Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: p90jr] #2948885
09/18/18 02:23 PM
09/18/18 02:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,355
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
p90jr  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,355

Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: p90jr] #2948889
09/18/18 02:31 PM
09/18/18 02:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,355
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
p90jr  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,355
This has me wanting to put a Fretless neck on one of the guitars I have laying around...

Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: p90jr] #2948890
09/18/18 02:34 PM
09/18/18 02:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,355
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
p90jr  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,355

Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: p90jr] #2948907
09/18/18 03:34 PM
09/18/18 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,599
Baltimore, MD
Danzilla Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Danzilla  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,599
Baltimore, MD
I've only owned one instrument with a maple fretboard (a bass), but played several guitars with them, and don't particularly like them. I am a fan of rosewood, but do like ebony, as well.

I recently read an ad for someone selling a Godin synth guitar, talking about ebony being considered the most desirable fretboard material for tracking on synth guitars. Anyone have any experience in this regard?

Given my say on a custom guitar, I would have to get purpleheart. I played a Conklin that had that, and totally loved it. But it is rare, and seems to be expensive.

Boggs often uses interesting woods in his Rockbeach guitars, like pistachio. I'd be interested in seeing how they feel and sound. One day...


"Am I enough of a freak to be worth paying to see?"- Separated Out (Marillion)
NEW band Old band
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Danzilla] #2948920
09/18/18 04:25 PM
09/18/18 04:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,689
no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
D
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
d / halfnote  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
D

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,689
no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
I myself have no "ultimates" in any particular element of instrument construction.
I've played gtrs w/any of the once-standard woods & value them for their varied qualities but I'd assert that those qualities are not necessarily equivalent in diff instruments, i.e., not all boards (or bodies) of any wood type will have the same sound.
I also think that the tonal qualities of any instrument change over time, although that's a bit hard to prove definitely.


d=halfnote
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: d / halfnote] #2948936
09/18/18 05:09 PM
09/18/18 05:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Mark Schmieder Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
Mark Schmieder  Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Jacaranda is Portuguese for Rosewood -- well, not a direct translation per se, but simply the colloquial name for it in that language. But it is specifically used to refer to Bolivian Rosewood, not Brasilian Rosewood.

I just bought a bunch of Andean ethnic instruments, which feature Jacaranda, so had to do the research as I was also concerned whether it was a trick to get around the CITES rules.


Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948937
09/18/18 05:11 PM
09/18/18 05:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Mark Schmieder Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
Mark Schmieder  Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
As for synth tracking, I suppose ebony might help some, but the bigger difference, according to Godin, is using nylon strings, due to different resonance, harmonics, and inter-string play than with steel or other metal strings.

I owned one of theirs (an ACS Multiac) for a while, sold it to someone who was a housemate at the time, and he still uses it a lot, as he's super into Brasilian music and they mostly use nylon guitars of various types (including related instruments that aren't really guitars). He doesn't even use it all that much as a synth trigger (it has a hex pickup installed inside).


Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948940
09/18/18 05:17 PM
09/18/18 05:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Mark Schmieder Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
Mark Schmieder  Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
I owned the Godin Glissintar for a while, but found the scale length and other factors not conducive to playing the sort of Middle Eastern phrases I had in mind, as it's designed more like a guitar overall.

I do however, have my eye on their Electric Oud (I'd go for an acoustic one, but good ones are hard to find here and are quite expensive plus delicate). At first I felt it too much a compromise, but the latest high-end model ($1700) sounds way more authentic than the earlier models. Ebony fingerboard from what I can tell, and they make models for both nylon and steel strings.

The Oud should be played with a special implement (I forget its name) that is fairly long and somewhat spoon-like. Not sure if that would have helped on the Glissintar, but unlikely.

After giving up on ever finding a Jerry Jones electric sitar, and as the UK company that made one with a sculpted fingerboard went out of business, I was happy to see that Danelectro is back in the game but at higher quality than before (they may have hired some of the Jerry Jones people), and my Baby Sitar is on its way. I forget if it has Morado (Pau Ferro) or Rosewood fingerboard, but of course it's fretted unlike an Oud so it won't be as critical.

It took me a long time to like Maple on anything, but now there's no going back. I prefer the articulateness, and tame the brightness with flatwound strings (even on one of my guitars; certainly on all of my basses). But I'm OK with rosewood when it has super-tight grain, which is less rare than it used to be (except with Gibson, where finding a good neck is a 1-in-100 shot).


Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948941
09/18/18 05:19 PM
09/18/18 05:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Mark Schmieder Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
Mark Schmieder  Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
I can't do audio or video at work, but will try to remember to check out the posted links later this week. It's been a long time since I've heard a fretless guitar played by a top talent, and I'm curious to hear how well it works when not applied to an instrument that is specifically trying to emulate ethnic instruments (especially those of the Middle East).


Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948943
09/18/18 05:23 PM
09/18/18 05:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,599
Baltimore, MD
Danzilla Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Danzilla  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,599
Baltimore, MD
And what should appear as Musician's Friend's "Stupid Deal of the Hour", but an Alvarez acoustic guitar... with an "engineered rosewood" fretboard. Is that just a composite, made from the sawdust of other rosewood boards?


"Am I enough of a freak to be worth paying to see?"- Separated Out (Marillion)
NEW band Old band
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2948969
09/18/18 08:02 PM
09/18/18 08:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,689
no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
D
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
d / halfnote  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
D

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,689
no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
The Oud should be played with a special implement (I forget its name) that is fairly long and somewhat spoon-like.

Always happy to learn something new (at least new to me grin )
< http://www.oudforguitarists.com/oud-picks-ultimate-oud-buyers-guide-5/ >

"The final accessory required to get you started on the Oud is an Oud pick. It called mezraab/mizrap in Farsi and Turkish and Reesha/Risha in Arabic. Whatever you call it, youíre going to need a good one.
The mezraab is long and thin. It is held not only by the fingers but the whole hand. Donít use a guitar pick to play the Oud, it will limit your technique in the long run, and it just wonít give you the right sound. The attack of the mezraab is very unique for the Oud."
Originally Posted By: Danzilla
And what should appear as Musician's Friend's "Stupid Deal of the Hour", but an Alvarez acoustic guitar... with an "engineered rosewood" fretboard. Is that just a composite, made from the sawdust of other rosewood boards?

That seems to be exactly what it is...although for a moment I wondered if commercial scientists had successfully cloned the trees themselves.
< https://thefretwire.com/pages/what-is-engineered-rosewood >
There's also this...
< https://www.madinter.com/blackwood-tek.html?___from_store=fr&___store=en >


d=halfnote
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: d / halfnote] #2949028
09/19/18 08:20 AM
09/19/18 08:20 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11,680
Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
whitefang Offline
10k Club
whitefang  Offline
10k Club

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11,680
Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Originally Posted By: d
I myself have no "ultimates" in any particular element of instrument construction.
I've played gtrs w/any of the once-standard woods & value them for their varied qualities but I'd assert that those qualities are not necessarily equivalent in diff instruments, i.e., not all boards (or bodies) of any wood type will have the same sound.
I also think that the tonal qualities of any instrument change over time, although that's a bit hard to prove definitely.


I'd add that too, there's the factors of strings and finishes to consider as I do know some who pare it all down to those kind of trivial matters. Like, I know a guy who ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to buy a guitar with a polyurethane finish(his newest guitar is about 50+ years old).
Whitefang


I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: whitefang] #2949076
09/19/18 12:14 PM
09/19/18 12:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,689
no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
D
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
d / halfnote  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
D

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,689
no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Well, strings (in terms of size more than anything else, I think).
Finiahes are of course significant on acoustic instruments but for most of these matters re: electric gtrs, I think the pups, amps & out-board gear settings are the vital parts of the sound.


d=halfnote
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: p90jr] #2949113
09/19/18 02:33 PM
09/19/18 02:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,014
The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club
Caevan O'Shite  Offline
20k Club

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,014
The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Lovin' the fretless fingerboard playing in those Ned Evett and Guthrie Govan videos- thanks, p90jr, Sir! cool

Someone needs to get a good fretless Strat into Jeff Beck's hands! crazy

I think I'd prefer a radiused fretless-fingerboard, myself, as opposed to a flat one. And I think I'd do my dangdest to play as much chord work as I could manage, as well.

As for the fretless-fingerboard material? Treated/special-finished ebony or pau ferro (perhaps heavily treated/finished, like Jaco did), metal, glass, all appeal...


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2949334
09/20/18 04:19 PM
09/20/18 04:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 357
Ormond Beach, FL
D
Delta Offline
Senior Member
Delta  Offline
Senior Member
D

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 357
Ormond Beach, FL
I love the ebony fretboard on my Godin Icon and the maple on my American Strat. The rest of my guitars have rosewood which works for me also. There's an interesting full page Taylor add in the latest Guitar Player issue regarding woods, particularly ebony.


"Let me stand next to your fire!", Jimi Hendrix
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Delta] #2950364
09/27/18 11:46 PM
09/27/18 11:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 357
Ormond Beach, FL
D
Delta Offline
Senior Member
Delta  Offline
Senior Member
D

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 357
Ormond Beach, FL
Anybody out there played on a Ritchlite fretboard? Made from recycled materials. Supposedly similar to Ebony.


"Let me stand next to your fire!", Jimi Hendrix
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Delta] #2950423
09/28/18 07:51 AM
09/28/18 07:51 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11,680
Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
whitefang Offline
10k Club
whitefang  Offline
10k Club

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11,680
Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Except for a few short minutes in a store, I never really played too much on any guitar made of, or with, composite materials( and except for that all plastic EMENEE I had when I was 12).
Whitefang


I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2950433
09/28/18 09:15 AM
09/28/18 09:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,765
Ottawa
Bluesape Offline

10k Club
Bluesape  Offline

10k Club

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,765
Ottawa
I personally applaud the phasing out of rosewood, as there are far too many junk varieties of it out there that are misrepresented as as the good stuff.There will always be the tone argument of one fretboard over another, but modern sound shaping options negate that argument. Hard, glassy feeling woods feel and sound the best to me, as do certain synthetics. The old LP straight into a basic tube amp is a bygone thing.


Never a DUH! moment! Well, almost never. OK, OK! Sometimes never!
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Bluesape] #2950452
09/28/18 11:41 AM
09/28/18 11:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,078
Northern California
Larryz Offline
10k Club
Larryz  Offline
10k Club

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,078
Northern California
Originally Posted By: Bluesape
I personally applaud the phasing out of rosewood, as there are far too many junk varieties of it out there that are misrepresented as as the good stuff.There will always be the tone argument of one fretboard over another, but modern sound shaping options negate that argument. Hard, glassy feeling woods feel and sound the best to me, as do certain synthetics. The old LP straight into a basic tube amp is a bygone thing.


Not wanting to disagree but...this reminds me of the SS thread (i.e wanting to find an overdrive pedal that makes an SS amp sound like a tube amp). We forget that not everybody is a ZZ Topper wanting that high volume tube amp overdriven sound. For me, there is no better clean sound than an LP straight into a Fender tube amp with a touch of that famous Fender spring reverb.

Most LP's come in Rosewood as far as fretboard material, but I prefer an Ebony fretboard mostly for looks and feel. Protecting endangered woods is a concept I agree with... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Larryz] #2950468
09/28/18 01:19 PM
09/28/18 01:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,356
Los Angeles
S
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Scott Fraser  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
S

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,356
Los Angeles
Ebony feels best to me, but not so much that I wouldn't ever want to play my rosewood equipped guitars. And one of my past favorites has a carbon fiber fingerboard. It's great, but unfortunately attached to a not great neck.


Scott Fraser
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Larryz] #2950504
09/28/18 05:08 PM
09/28/18 05:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,689
no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
D
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
d / halfnote  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
D

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,689
no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: Bluesape
I personally applaud the phasing out of rosewood, as there are far too many junk varieties of it out there that are misrepresented as as the good stuff.There will always be the tone argument of one fretboard over another, but modern sound shaping options negate that argument. Hard, glassy feeling woods feel and sound the best to me, as do certain synthetics. The old LP straight into a basic tube amp is a bygone thing.

I largely agree, although I think the reasons for the rosewood ban could be solved by genuine effort to manage the world's resources in a practical way...but...the remarks abt "modern sound shaping" & certain approaches being "a bygone thing" are exactly what I suggested earlier, i.e., the world of music production, as so often in the past & likely the future, moves on. Sometimes it seems sketchy but, to cut to the chase, it is what it is.

There's freedom in being an artist but I've never understood why many find a comfort zone then wonder why the world didn't stop there with 'em.
Most of the music any of us here now like was at one point considered an affront & while that's a bit diff than the tech behind the sounds it's the same mind-set.
Consider if resistance to tape recording or the use of electrical gear had won out in the past. idk
To embrace new developments for what they are is not do disavow the past...but to insist that what was is the Way To Stay is a dead end.
Sooner or later it won't work...and tryna not go forward may even wreck the best way to maintain yer tradition !

Further we've always found ways to recreate sonic elements that we want. There are many examples but I'll just point here to BApe who's a skilled player & largely interested in certain trad styles of music but sees technology for what it is: a tool not a theology.
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Originally Posted By: Bluesape
The old LP straight into a basic tube amp is a bygone thing.


Not wanting to disagree but...this reminds me of the SS thread (i.e wanting to find an overdrive pedal that makes an SS amp sound like a tube amp). We forget that not everybody is a ZZ Topper wanting that high volume tube amp overdriven sound. For me, there is no better clean sound than an LP straight into a Fender tube amp with a touch of that famous Fender spring reverb....

I think that's a great argument but ignores the fact that modern tech for sonics offers both great clean sounds & great ways to manipulate sound (not just distort it) at ever lower costs, which is a bit beyond the basic thread point abt woods but not too much so.


d=halfnote
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: d / halfnote] #2950518
09/28/18 05:51 PM
09/28/18 05:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,639
Near 12th Street and Vine...
P
picker Offline
10k Club
picker  Offline
10k Club
P

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,639
Near 12th Street and Vine...
I had a Parker Fly for a while, wish I still did. It's fretboard was total composite material, and the frets were glued("bonded" is the word they used) to it.

As I said, I wish I still had it. It played and sounded great.


Always remember that youíre unique. Just like everyone else.



Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: picker] #2950549
09/28/18 11:12 PM
09/28/18 11:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,078
Northern California
Larryz Offline
10k Club
Larryz  Offline
10k Club

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,078
Northern California
@ d, I appreciate the technological advances and I'm glad you can buy a little pedal and get the sound of an overdriven Marshall stack at much lower volume (i.e. verses the LP going straight in that Bluesape brought up). +1 it was a bit OT but I went with the segue as I can hear the beauty of a clean warm tuber over an SS amp. I can't really hear the difference in the fretboard woods, and for me it's more about feel and looks. I prefer Ebony even though I also own some Rosewood and a Maple fretboard.

In the OP Delta, mentioned an article about Taylor guitars and conserving Ebony. Bob Taylor is one of the major owners of some of the last legal Ebony trees allowed for harvesting. He is a pioneer in using all of the wood when a tree is cut down not just the sought after pure black core wood. Many Ebony trees were left to rot as more than one was cut down in order to get the prime black wood and a lot of Ebony was being wasted. Bob makes fretboards using the blonde/black Ebony. That's kind of the story as best I remember it without looking it up...

I couldn't cover all the angles of both stories, but I know I'm not as deaf when it comes to the electric sounds when you plug in a guitar (acoustic or electric) to an amp or PA, as I am with just trying to hear the difference in fretboard materials... cool

Last edited by Larryz; 09/28/18 11:19 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: picker] #2950563
09/29/18 01:56 AM
09/29/18 01:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,014
The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club
Caevan O'Shite  Offline
20k Club

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,014
The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: picker
I had a Parker Fly for a while, wish I still did. It's fretboard was total composite material, and the frets were glued("bonded" is the word they used) to it.

As I said, I wish I still had it. It played and sounded great.


Those are great fretboards, on great necks, on great guitars!


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2950571
09/29/18 04:44 AM
09/29/18 04:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Mark Schmieder Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
Mark Schmieder  Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,533
San Francisco Bay Area
Hagstrom fingerboards feel fantastic, and very similar to ebony. As near vas I can tell, it's some sort of compressed composite.


Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2950650
09/29/18 03:39 PM
09/29/18 03:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,639
Near 12th Street and Vine...
P
picker Offline
10k Club
picker  Offline
10k Club
P

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,639
Near 12th Street and Vine...
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: picker
I had a Parker Fly for a while, wish I still did. It's fretboard was total composite material, and the frets were glued("bonded" is the word they used) to it.

As I said, I wish I still had it. It played and sounded great.


Those are great fretboards, on great necks, on great guitars!


Amen, brother!


Always remember that youíre unique. Just like everyone else.



Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: picker] #2950833
10/01/18 10:06 AM
10/01/18 10:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,349
Japan
S
skipclone 1 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
skipclone 1  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
S

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,349
Japan
Well, you can plug electrodes into my brain and see which parts light up, and maybe that will bypass anything I can say. I had an all-you-can-play tryout with Parker. It just didn`t connect for me.


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

Skipsounds on Soundclick:
www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: skipclone 1] #2950880
10/01/18 01:48 PM
10/01/18 01:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,356
Los Angeles
S
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Scott Fraser  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
S

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,356
Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
I had an all-you-can-play tryout with Parker. It just didn`t connect for me.


I wanted to like it but the upper horn poked me in the chest uncomfortably.


Scott Fraser
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Scott Fraser] #2950910
10/01/18 03:40 PM
10/01/18 03:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,689
no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
D
d / halfnote Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
d / halfnote  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
D

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,689
no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
I had an all-you-can-play tryout with Parker. It just didn`t connect for me.


I wanted to like it but the upper horn poked me in the chest uncomfortably.

Maybe a diff type wood would've lessened the discomfort....


d=halfnote
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: d / halfnote] #2950917
10/01/18 04:31 PM
10/01/18 04:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,356
Los Angeles
S
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Scott Fraser  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
S

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,356
Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: d
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
I had an all-you-can-play tryout with Parker. It just didn`t connect for me.


I wanted to like it but the upper horn poked me in the chest uncomfortably.

Maybe a diff type wood would've lessened the discomfort....


They were all out of the squishy foam Parkers that day.


Scott Fraser
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Scott Fraser] #2951163
10/03/18 09:06 AM
10/03/18 09:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,765
Ottawa
Bluesape Offline

10k Club
Bluesape  Offline

10k Club

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,765
Ottawa
They were all out of the squishy foam Parkers that day.

LMAO!


Never a DUH! moment! Well, almost never. OK, OK! Sometimes never!
Re: The end of Rosewood, and the rise of Ebony and Pau Ferro [Re: Scott Fraser] #2951224
10/03/18 02:22 PM
10/03/18 02:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,014
The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club
Caevan O'Shite  Offline
20k Club

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,014
The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: d
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
[quote=skipclone 1] I had an all-you-can-play tryout with Parker. It just didn`t connect for me.


I wanted to like it but the upper horn poked me in the chest uncomfortably.

Maybe a diff type wood would've lessened the discomfort....


They were all out of the squishy foam Parkers that day. [/quote]
Originally Posted By: Bluesape
They were all out of the squishy foam Parkers that day.

LMAO!


crazy laugh grin thu

I know that Parker's since come out with other body designs, FWIW...


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  A String, Bluesape, myles_rose 

 
   
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1