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#2951867 - 10/07/18 06:31 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Fleer]
Mogut Offline
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Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 2006
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Fleer
I picked the MODX8 because of the lighter GHS action, the ample space for a laptop (thanks again for that photo, Mogut) and the fact that the European price difference between the MODX7 and MODX8 is much less than in the US


wasnít me who posted any pic idk
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#2951869 - 10/07/18 06:41 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Mogut]
Fleer Offline
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Registered: 08/21/17
Posts: 79
Loc: Boston/Cambridge
Originally Posted By: Mogut
Originally Posted By: Fleer
I picked the MODX8 because of the lighter GHS action, the ample space for a laptop (thanks again for that photo, Mogut) and the fact that the European price difference between the MODX7 and MODX8 is much less than in the US


wasnít me who posted any pic idk

True. I meant Sven Golly coffee

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#2951935 - 10/08/18 08:21 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: AnotherScott]
High Diving Act Offline
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Registered: 05/19/13
Posts: 235
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Cabo
I played the MODX8 today...They also had an MOXF8 and I like the newer action better.

I got a chance to play the MODX8 next to the DGX660 in a store (I mentioned earlier in the thread that I was surprised to think the DGX660 in the store felt better than my MOXF). They did not feel identical to me. I preferred the feel of the DGX, but of course, these things are subjective and someone might prefer the MODX. But to me the DGX felt a little lighter/quicker, a little "snappier" if you will. This was not due to different velocity curves or the presence of the vibrations of the built-in speakers, as I did this comparison with no sound. Though I would not say this necessarily means the actions are different... the MODX had just been on display for a matter of days, the DGX could have been there a year for all I know, and it could feel different after a lot of in-store playing. But while I didn't have the chance to compare them directly, the MODX8 did remind me of my MOXF8, more than the DGX did. If it's not the same, it at least seems pretty close to me. (But maybe some of us have experience with different feeling MOXF8s, who knows?)

Originally Posted By: Cabo
IOne thing really annoys me: there's a huge amount of empty space (on the 88 key version) between the keys and the screen (and buttons / wheels). It's going to make the screen very difficult to see if I have a keyboard above it. Everything is pushed up and further away from the keys.

Yes, this bothered me too. There may well be a very good reason it had to be done this way, but regardless, I don't like how far away it will push a second tier board.

I had been trying to decide between a MODX8 and a MODX7 (with a small outside chance I might have considered getting both)... the combination of both of those things has put me firmly in the MODX7 camp. But I'll be really curious to see how piano plays from that semi-weighted action, to see whether I would ever consider using it as a "bottom" or solo board, or only as a top.

Scott.. I have been messing around with my MODX7 for a little over a week now. It took about 2 days before I had acclimitized to the action but now I'm good. I was unsatisfied with how the stock pianos played.. kinda bummed me out a bit. I contacted Wojtek Olszak and he sent me a link to his soundpack. The piano he created plays really well and to my liking. The velocity settings he used in different zones of the board made it much easier to play expressively on the synth action. I highly recomend getting his sound pack.. he did a great Mark V in there too.
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#2951955 - 10/08/18 09:51 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: High Diving Act]
zephonic Offline
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Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3948
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
My observations after the first weekend of gigs with MODX:

* The positioning of the volume knobs is an ergonomic fail. Whoever greenlighted that doesn't use a two-tier setup. To me, this is the instrument's largest flaw. Not only are they too far back, they are also too close together. Why on Earth they removed the excellent faders of the MOXF is beyond me.

* The low output has been remedied somewhat by the +6dB setting, but it's still not as hot as the Krome. Think I'll try the +12dB on the next gig. Makes you wonder if Yamaha uses -12dBFS as their nominal peak level? That makes sense, as it is practically gospel in engineering circles.

* The BŲsendorfer sounded great in the studio, but got drowned out on the friday gig. Adjusting EQ (roll off LF) and reverb helped it shine on saturday. I really like this piano now, it is warm and bright at the same time. Normally, I need a natural and a bright piano patch in a band context, but the Bosie does both. Also, it has way more volume than the other AP's, somehow.

* When in doubt, there is all the old Motif stuff to get you through the gig! This is actually great if you need to hit the ground running.
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#2951957 - 10/08/18 10:00 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: zephonic]
MotiDave Online   content
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Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1910
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Originally Posted By: zephonic
My observations after the first weekend of gigs with MODX:

* The positioning of the volume knobs is an ergonomic fail. Whoever greenlighted that doesn't use a two-tier setup. To me, this is the instrument's largest flaw. Not only are they too far back, they are also too close together. Why on Earth they removed the excellent faders of the MOXF is beyond me.

* The low output has been remedied somewhat by the +6dB setting, but it's still not as hot as the Krome. Think I'll try the +12dB on the next gig. Makes you wonder if Yamaha uses -12dBFS as their nominal peak level? That makes sense, as it is practically gospel in engineering circles.

* The BŲsendorfer sounded great in the studio, but got drowned out on the friday gig. Adjusting EQ (roll off LF) and reverb helped it shine on saturday. I really like this piano now, it is warm and bright at the same time. Normally, I need a natural and a bright piano patch in a band context, but the Bosie does both. Also, it has way more volume than the other AP's, somehow.

* When in doubt, there is all the old Motif stuff to get you through the gig! This is actually great if you need to hit the ground running.

this is how Yammy locks me in ... lol. I'm a lazy part-ime gigger with an unrelated full time life. I'm about to pull the trigger ...
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#2951958 - 10/08/18 10:02 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: High Diving Act]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12822
Originally Posted By: High Diving Act
I contacted Wojtek Olszak and he sent me a link to his soundpack. The piano he created plays really well and to my liking. The velocity settings he used in different zones of the board made it much easier to play expressively on the synth action. I highly recomend getting his sound pack.. he did a great Mark V in there too.
Thanks for the lead, Jay!
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#2951968 - 10/08/18 10:39 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: AnotherScott]
Fleer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/21/17
Posts: 79
Loc: Boston/Cambridge
Played the MODX8 today and compared its action to the others.
Sweet keybed, light and silent, ideal for piano as well as synth patches.
Also compared it to the Kronos (88) and preferred the former to the latter (being less light at play).
The other actions are somewhat flimsy, but the boards are light.
The MODX8 feels very sturdy.


Edited by Fleer (10/08/18 10:42 AM)

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#2951982 - 10/08/18 11:45 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: zephonic]
Stokely Online   content
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Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1928
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: zephonic
... Why on Earth they removed the excellent faders of the MOXF is beyond me.



This drives me nuts. Manufacturers come up with something that works well, you'd think it would be easier to just re-use that something rather than reinvent something else. I see it at work with the front-end software designers, the mentality seems to be that everything new is always better....irritating.

Even if they can't physically reuse the part, they could recognize a good ergonomic element and fold it into the newer product.

Makes you wonder if they bother to get any feedback whatsoever from the users of the product, then bother to take action (or not) based on that feedback...

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#2951987 - 10/08/18 12:18 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Stokely]
LX88 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1916
I had a chance to play the MODX yesterday.

I basically went through most of the acoustic and electric pianos and organs.

Yamaha STILL doesn't get organs, do they? Roland and Korg and of course Nord are miles ahead of Yamaha in this regard.

When the acoustic piano page is called up, I saw mostly CFX variations. So the main CFX ( says CFX and FM?) sounds pretty good but it was nothing earth shattering. In many ways it sounds like previous samples that Yamaha already has out.

There is less plunkiness in the MODX CFX mid range than I recall hearing from the MOFX or MX88. But it didn't make me absolutely have to have it. It also made me re evaluate the
"Glasgow" sample from the MX88 that I like quite a bit, since I was able to A/B the MODX and MX88 side by side.

The Rhodes are also quite good overall . Some of them had me wishing for a fatter sound with less bark at high velocity . The "Quick to bark" factor has been an issue with Yamaha Rhodes which has caused me not to want or have to upgrade from my Roland RD300GX as a go - to Rhodes.

I though the Wurli was very authentic. It is a step up from Motif/ MX88 etc.etc.

The action was OK. I have had issues with plastic key beakage and noise from Yamaha action in the past.

Overall though I am a Yamaha fan. I recently acquired a like new Yamaha P-85 and am surprised by how much I like it.

I am just not hearing a tremendous difference in this over previous models. Perhaps it amplifies well. And I have only heard this once, and briefly.

It did not make me leave the store thinking I had to have it.

It did make me go home and appreciate my Roland RD300GX and Yamaha P-85 and the money in the bank I am not having to let go of.

I also drive older cars too. So there you have it.

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#2951992 - 10/08/18 12:40 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: LX88]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12822
Originally Posted By: LX88
Yamaha STILL doesn't get organs, do they? Roland and Korg and of course Nord are miles ahead of Yamaha in this regard.

...because Roland, Korg, and Nord have separate clonewheel engines in some models, while Yamaha's organs are still straight sample playback. To flip it around, Yamaha has a real FM engine in the MODX, whereas most other boards play samples of FM sounds and aren't as good. (I think Kronos is the only board with a clonewheel engine and an FM engine, though Nord Stage models do have some FM capabilities). If you compare the MODX to other sample-focussed boards that do NOT have separate clonewheel engines (Korg Kross/Krome, Roland Juno DS), Yamaha's organs are probably competitive. But bottom line, yeah, Yamaha is not likely to be your first choice if organ is a priority.

Originally Posted By: LX88
IThe Rhodes are also quite good overall . Some of them had me wishing for a fatter sound with less bark at high velocity . The "Quick to bark" factor has been an issue with Yamaha Rhodes which has caused me not to want or have to upgrade from my Roland RD300GX as a go - to Rhodes.

The wimpy bark is some of what has turned me off to a lot of Roland EPs. Different strokes...
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#2951993 - 10/08/18 12:45 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: LX88]
MotiDave Online   content
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1910
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
I'm picking my MODX7 up after work - traffic and schedule permitting. Sorry to twang my one note as I seem rather lonely in this passionate pursuit:

Why has acquired a case for MODX7:
- yammaha MODX7 gig bag
- other gig bag (e.g. Gator, other - which?)
- rigid case - TSA approved latches

Thoughts, recommendations? I think I may get both a TSA worthy molded case and a gig bag both so all sides of the equation (short of plywood flight case) are very welcome
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#2951999 - 10/08/18 01:34 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: LX88]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 5885
Loc: Washington DC
Originally Posted By: LX88


Yamaha STILL doesn't get organs, do they? Roland and Korg and of course Nord are miles ahead of Yamaha in this regard.


They've decided to focus on this kind of organ instead. I've been told it sells very well in Asia, that's why it's been in production until the present day. We don't hear about them in the US for whatever reason.

https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com...tone/index.html

I think this is their top of the line Electone - it has VA and "Organ" engines in addition to AWM, and "horizontal touch" keyboard:
https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com...ml#product-tabs


Edited by GovernorSilver (10/08/18 01:36 PM)
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#2952005 - 10/08/18 02:39 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Stokely]
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3948
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: Stokely
Originally Posted By: zephonic
... Why on Earth they removed the excellent faders of the MOXF is beyond me.



This drives me nuts. Manufacturers come up with something that works well, you'd think it would be easier to just re-use that something rather than reinvent something else. I see it at work with the front-end software designers, the mentality seems to be that everything new is always better....irritating.

Even if they can't physically reuse the part, they could recognize a good ergonomic element and fold it into the newer product.

Makes you wonder if they bother to get any feedback whatsoever from the users of the product, then bother to take action (or not) based on that feedback...



It's like Apple removing the switch on the iPad. On the older iPads you could change and lock orientation with the hardware switch, one action, easy as pie.

With the newer models, you have to swipe up from the bottom to get to the control center, unlock orientation, get out of control center, reposition your iPad, swipe up for control center, and lock orientation.
That's five or six actions (depending on how you count), just to change orientation and lock it.

Why the boffins at Apple think this is the superior solution to a function I use countless times a day, I really don't know...
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#2952008 - 10/08/18 02:54 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: zephonic]
Synthoid Offline
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Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 10451
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Why the boffins at Apple think this is the superior solution to a function I use countless times a day, I really don't know...


They enjoy removing features, jacks and ports.
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#2952014 - 10/08/18 04:30 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: LX88]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12822
Originally Posted By: LX88
I Yamaha STILL doesn't get organs, do they?

Picking up from the previous comment... I noticed that the Montage had an upgrade a while back that included organ improvement (still not a full clonewheel engine), and I assume that made it into the MODX as well... Here's what they said about it:

Quote:
New Rotary Speaker Effect with New Organ Performances - If youíre an organ player, youíve got to check out MONTAGE OS v1.51:

MONTAGE OS 1.5 Organ Performances

The new rotary speaker effect features authentic ďrotorĒ simulation with assignable speed up/slow down. The new effect has improved overdrive behavior for a warm, full vintage sound. The new Performances feature the new rotary speaker along with drawbar control via the MONTAGE faders.

Check out some of the Organ Performances featuring the new Rotary Speaker effect below:

The Basics (Blues with Walking Bass, Arched Top and Real Brushes Kit)
888862200_2
Foolish Organ
Rock Hard

So for those who say the Yamaha organs are still the Yamaha organs, I think it's worth being sure you're checking out the newest programs, because the old Motif series ones are probably still there too, and they probably do sound just the same as they always did.
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#2952023 - 10/08/18 07:13 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: AnotherScott]
High Diving Act Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/19/13
Posts: 235
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: LX88
I Yamaha STILL doesn't get organs, do they?

Picking up from the previous comment... I noticed that the Montage had an upgrade a while back that included organ improvement (still not a full clonewheel engine), and I assume that made it into the MODX as well... Here's what they said about it:

Quote:
New Rotary Speaker Effect with New Organ Performances - If youíre an organ player, youíve got to check out MONTAGE OS v1.51:

MONTAGE OS 1.5 Organ Performances

The new rotary speaker effect features authentic ďrotorĒ simulation with assignable speed up/slow down. The new effect has improved overdrive behavior for a warm, full vintage sound. The new Performances feature the new rotary speaker along with drawbar control via the MONTAGE faders.

Check out some of the Organ Performances featuring the new Rotary Speaker effect below:

The Basics (Blues with Walking Bass, Arched Top and Real Brushes Kit)
888862200_2
Foolish Organ
Rock Hard

So for those who say the Yamaha organs are still the Yamaha organs, I think it's worth being sure you're checking out the newest programs, because the old Motif series ones are probably still there too, and they probably do sound just the same as they always did.


The organs in the modx are the updated montage versions. The rotary is much better than before... I think its even better now than the rotary sim on the juno/jupiter/fa lines. I have a stage 3 for my organs so... not something I would use a bunch but they are usable enough in a pinch. I think the new yammy organs will sound great through a vent or similar.
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www.soundcloud.com/high-diving-act
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#2952024 - 10/08/18 07:22 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: High Diving Act]
High Diving Act Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/19/13
Posts: 235
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada
While I have always liked Yamaha, it was never my "go to" brand because I didn't find the UI very friendly. After spending a week with my MODX7, I am now staring to fly around the os structure and edits. I am reprogramming patches for my next show and I am very happy with the outcome! I may officially be a convert!
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#2952030 - 10/08/18 08:19 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: High Diving Act]
Fleer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/21/17
Posts: 79
Loc: Boston/Cambridge
I get you. Up until (and including) the MOXF I found the Yamaha GUI and knobfest somewhat unwelcoming. Then the Montage came and I liked that one (apart from its price). I find the MODX even better looking and love the fact they did away with those right side buttons.
In fact, the MODX8 is almost the exact same size of the MOXF8, but so much nicer to look at and use. Plus that amazing space for a laptop. Never thought Iíd consider such a thing important until now. If you put your keyboard on a stand, there normally is no space left for your DAW. Now there is. A streak of Yamaha genius, whoíd have thought.

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#2952033 - 10/08/18 09:12 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Fleer]
MotiDave Online   content
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1910
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Just unpacked my MODX7 and turned it on. Wow, a lot of sonic power. Wandered around a bit with no particular intent to go anywhere. its an upgrade from XF/MOXF imo. Pianos, EPS, strings, etc - they all sound better to me. played with a lot of motion control preset performances, this thing will do a lot - a lot that i wonít ever do but the occasional special lil add - this will be nice.

I like it - iím going to need to load my current board library to get up and running for current gigs, and i can switch out old patches with new ones as Iím able to. First thing Iíll do is switch out pianos I was using for these on the Bowie set. The CFX piano is nicer than any on MOXF/XF. Will try the Bosendorf pianos - how much flash does that library take up?

What other 3rd party libraries have Montage or new MODX users found great? anyone try the B3 libraries out there?

I got the ďmanagerís friendĒ deal too ... iím stoked.


Edited by MotiDave (10/08/18 09:12 PM)
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#2952034 - 10/08/18 09:17 PM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: MotiDave]
miden Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 2288
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Just unpacked my MODX7 and turned it on. Wow, a lot of sonic power. Wandered around a bit with no particular intent to go anywhere. its an upgrade from XF/MOXF imo. Pianos, EPS, strings, etc - they all sound better to me. played with a lot of motion control preset performances, this thing will do a lot - a lot that i wonít ever do but the occasional special lil add - this will be nice.

I like it - iím going to need to load my current board library to get up and running for current gigs, and i can switch out old patches with new ones as Iím able to. First thing Iíll do is switch out pianos I was using for these on the Bowie set. The CFX piano is nicer than any on MOXF/XF. Will try the Bosendorf pianos - how much flash does that library take up?

What other 3rd party libraries have Montage or new MODX users found great? anyone try the B3 libraries out there?

I got the ďmanagerís friendĒ deal too ... iím stoked.


Bose pno takes about 480 mb of the 1 gb limit. IIRC

If you load the Chick Corea EP's too, it's just about all gone. I tried the Corea ones, but tbh the factory ones are just as good if not better IMO.
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#2952040 - 10/09/18 12:16 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: miden]
zephonic Offline
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Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3948
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: miden
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Just unpacked my MODX7 and turned it on. Wow, a lot of sonic power. Wandered around a bit with no particular intent to go anywhere. its an upgrade from XF/MOXF imo. Pianos, EPS, strings, etc - they all sound better to me. played with a lot of motion control preset performances, this thing will do a lot - a lot that i wonít ever do but the occasional special lil add - this will be nice.

I like it - iím going to need to load my current board library to get up and running for current gigs, and i can switch out old patches with new ones as Iím able to. First thing Iíll do is switch out pianos I was using for these on the Bowie set. The CFX piano is nicer than any on MOXF/XF. Will try the Bosendorf pianos - how much flash does that library take up?

What other 3rd party libraries have Montage or new MODX users found great? anyone try the B3 libraries out there?

I got the ďmanagerís friendĒ deal too ... iím stoked.


Bose pno takes about 480 mb of the 1 gb limit. IIRC

If you load the Chick Corea EP's too, it's just about all gone. I tried the Corea ones, but tbh the factory ones are just as good if not better IMO.


Yeah, I'm not sure I'll keep the CC MkV. It's a very nice tone, but not one I'd need a lot live. I'm leaving it in there for now, but if I need that space, it'll have to go.
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#2952061 - 10/09/18 05:15 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: zephonic]
Fleer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/21/17
Posts: 79
Loc: Boston/Cambridge
And then thereís that free CS-80 (480mb) and Montage Expanded (180mb).
Keepers or goners?


Edited by Fleer (10/09/18 05:17 AM)

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#2952063 - 10/09/18 05:20 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Fleer]
Mogut Offline
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Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 2006
Loc: Michigan
In an age where memory and hard drive space is cheap and endless, keyboard makers are still frugal with the memory cards used in their machines.
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#2952066 - 10/09/18 05:32 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Mogut]
Bobby Simons Online   content
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Registered: 12/28/17
Posts: 510
Loc: Northport, L.I., NY
Originally Posted By: Mogut
In an age where memory and hard drive space is cheap and endless, keyboard makers are still frugal with the memory cards used in their machines.


Iíve often had the same thought - whatís up wit dat? There must be something Iím not getting.
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#2952067 - 10/09/18 05:49 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Bobby Simons]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12822
Originally Posted By: Fleer
And then thereís that free CS-80 (480mb) and Montage Expanded (180mb).
Keepers or goners?

Not all or nothing. Keep the bits you like, ditch the rest.

Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
Originally Posted By: Mogut
In an age where memory and hard drive space is cheap and endless, keyboard makers are still frugal with the memory cards used in their machines.

Iíve had the same thought - whatís up wit dat? There must be something Iím not getting.

There are different kinds of "memory", it's not all cheap and endless. Look at the $ difference per GB between buying RAM vs. flash thumb drive. The kind of flash memory needed to be seen as RAM (so that its data is instantly available and can be processed "in place" rather than moved into RAM first) that can also function as storage (i.e. its contents survive reboots) is very expensive. It's part of what makes Nords pricey, and it's why the 512 Mb flash expansion for previous Yamahas was $150, and the 1 GB was close to twice that. I'm assuming that's still what Yamaha is using in the Montage/MODX. You can read about the differences between NOR and NAND flash at https://www.micron.com/~/media/documents/products/product-flyer/nor_nand_flash_guide.pdf
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#2952068 - 10/09/18 05:49 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: Mogut]
MotiDave Online   content
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Registered: 12/04/12
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Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Originally Posted By: Mogut
In an age where memory and hard drive space is cheap and endless, keyboard makers are still frugal with the memory cards used in their machines.


According to Yamaha - their flash memory design is fundamentally different and faster than standard SSD or other storage media because it multi-bit (i think 16 bit but donít quote me) paralle read access instantly - hence allowing the board to read detailed sample data faster without constantly loading it into a temporary RAM location first. Itís not apples and orange at all.

Now, is all that a focus on direct live read of the memory vs just loading it to a faster cheap RAM location necessary to function - well, thats a question i canít answer.

I do think the inability to add more Flash at user cost is miss. Add the gratuitous reduction in MODX - just to keep flagship separation - well, understandable but a bummer for me as i bought MODX. 1GB is not a lot. Not sure I can afford half of it for a piano library, i donít play much isolated solo piano - iím In a band mix and there are just other priorities.
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#2952070 - 10/09/18 06:13 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: MotiDave]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Now, is all that a focus on direct live read of the memory vs just loading it to a faster cheap RAM location necessary to function - well, thats a question i canít answer.

One variable is boot time, as systems that store their data in cheap flash (or SSD, or hard drive) need extra time to copy their data into RAM at boot (see Korg). In fact, Yamaha took this approach in the older Moifs... ES and XS at least could auto-load additional sample data from USB into optional RAM.
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#2952116 - 10/09/18 09:46 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: AnotherScott]
MotiDave Online   content
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Registered: 12/04/12
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Loc: San Diego, CA USA
I'll say this - MODX boots very fast and switches programs very fast - jmo, ymmv
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#2952125 - 10/09/18 10:19 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: MotiDave]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 5885
Loc: Washington DC
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
I'll say this - MODX boots very fast and switches programs very fast - jmo, ymmv


That's good to hear.

When I was bringing my Korg M3 to band rehearsals, I had to make sure I turned it on first, because it took a while to boot up, then several minutes to load all those M3 Xpanded sounds from the attached USB thumb drive.
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#2952135 - 10/09/18 11:01 AM Re: Yamaha MODX [Re: GovernorSilver]
pjd Offline
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Registered: 09/14/12
Posts: 122
Loc: Massachusetts
The old Yamaha expansion flash modules (boards) are 16-bit data parallel. The address bus is also parallel.

The Montage and MODX tone generators communicate directly with NAND flash using the Open NAND Flash Interface (ONFI). ONFI is the same interface used internally within SSD drives. The tone generator maintains a cache of currently used samples in a fast, dedicated SDRAM. The cache is needed because NAND flash random access read time is relatively slow, too slow to sustain 128 voice stereo polyphony.

ONFI moves data and address bits across a bi-directional bus. Normally, the bus is 8-bits wide, but there is provision for 16-bit transfer. Looking at the Montage service manual, it looks like Yamaha are using 8-bit mode although they double up the flash devices in order to implement 16-bit transfer.

WRT user expansion, I don't think Yamaha could find a reasonable way to let users expand ONFI memory in the field. Getting rid of the parallel expansion bus, connectors, boards and chassis access greatly simplifies industrial design, cuts cost, and eliminates another QA headache.

Gory details:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-hardware-platform/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/swp70-tone-generator/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/serial-mem-tone-gen/

U.S. Patent 8,957,295 is the patent issued for the SWP70 memory interface. U.S. Patent 9,040,800 describes a tone generator with 256 channels -- very likely the SWP70.

Hey, hey, I gigged with MODX6 on Sunday and I'm quite happy with it. Very easy to schlep around.

All the best -- pj

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