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#2946374 - 09/03/18 01:11 PM The Beatles and Yoko Ono
DocPate Offline
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When Yoko Ono joined the Beatles in the studio

The day Yoko Ono joined the Beatles in the studio

https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/yoko-ono-beatles-studio-biography-george-martin-producer-white-album-john-lennon-a8520761.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&amp#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Farts-entertainment%2Fmusic%2Ffeatures%2Fyoko-ono-beatles-studio-biography-george-martin-producer-white-album-john-lennon-a8520761.html

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#2946431 - 09/03/18 07:07 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: DocPate]
Jazz+ Offline
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... the beginning of the end.
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#2946433 - 09/03/18 07:42 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Jazz+]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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I'm tired of hearing Yoko blamed. As with many things in life, she might have been a lightning rod for pre-existing issues within the group.

Anyway, we're better off that they broke up, since they all went on to do some of their greatest music, and most interesting stylistic changes, post-Beatles. Abbey Road's a great album, but does sort of indicate they might have already hit their artistic peak as a group.
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#2946464 - 09/04/18 04:58 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
whitefang Offline
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I'm with Mark, in a way....

All Yoko did was sit there. John COULD have just given cursory attention to her "suggestions" though.

As for what they might have accomplished if NOT breaking up, we'll never really know, and it's foolish to assume anything. I mean, the Stones didn't get TOO stagnant after a while, but DID to some degree. wink
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#2946477 - 09/04/18 06:52 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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I wished John would have kept Yoko away from the boys. Added friction was not needed in the fab 4. They were on the verge of breaking up but it might have been possible to have a reunion some day. John loved Yoko and that's all that mattered. They could have done anything they wanted in the studio without trying to change what the Beatles were up to IMHO. Not blaming anyone, it's History and you can't change the past. cool
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#2946511 - 09/04/18 08:34 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Jazz+]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jazz+
... the beginning of the end.

Nah the End of The Beatles started long before that & wasn't final til long after their split became apparent to their fans.
The friction between Lennon & McCartney went all the way back before they were famous.
That they managed to work around it was the real miracle of their success.
Ultimately, however, they were just 2 v.diff cats & couldn't maintain their accord.
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#2946552 - 09/04/18 01:28 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
desertbluesman Offline
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I did not click on the link, I absolutely like almost everything the Beatles did musically, but I am not much of a Yoko fan. I watched everything on the Beatles back in the day, so I am sure I already saw whatever it is that is in the video.
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#2946560 - 09/04/18 01:58 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: desertbluesman]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Hah, I didn't even notice there was a link, as it wasn't coloured or underlined. :-) I've probably seen it already though.

Was Yoko on any Beatles albums besides White Album ("Bungalow Bill" for starters) and "Let It Be" (mostly the rap between songs)? For instance, "Abbey Road", as it was their final album?
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#2946581 - 09/04/18 03:45 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
d Offline
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I think she's only on 1 Beatles record, The Beatles ("BBill" & "#9" &, some say, singing w/Patti Harrison on "Birthday").
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#2946598 - 09/04/18 04:33 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Well, she's definitely on "Let It Be" as she's the one who lovingly makes fun of Paul: "And now we're going to hear how the angels sing".
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#2946619 - 09/04/18 06:31 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
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Yoko Ono was not the one who caused the Beatles to break up, it was Paul. Right around 1969 or 1970, George Harrison made a public gripe about having to play 57 (it could have been 58, but I think it was 57) Paul songs before they could play one of his. When the Rolling Stones filmed their movie that sat around for years, Rock And Roll Circus, John Lennon made a comment on film about how it felt good to not be in Paul's backup band, or something close to that. And then there was the letter signed by John, George, and Ringo, stating that Paul's new father in law, Lee Eastman, did NOT legally represent the Beatles.

The Beatles manager, Brian Epstein, was the glue that held that band together. And after Brian died, the Beatles went from being one group to four individuals who started to drift off in four different directions, and then kept on going until it was too late. Although I will NEVER EVER be a fan of Yoko Ono, I will always be a fan of telling the truth, no matter how unpleasant the truth might be.
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#2946639 - 09/05/18 02:00 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Sharkman]
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The Beatles were broken up by the fact that The Beatles was a youth thing, started when they were kids, & they grew up & found themselves to be grown men, with families. The youthful spark had left them & they wanted to be normal family guys, not the four lads anymore. Plus, they didn't have Brian Epstein around anymore to shield them from the harsh reality of the business.
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#2946642 - 09/05/18 04:24 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
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I'll go more with Scott's summation than Shark's. I don't think it was Paul alone who broke 'em up. And not necessarily a "youth thing", as the two oldest, John andRingo, were barely 30 at the time.

I go with the EGO legend, sort of a "This band ain't big enough for the BOTH of us, pardner!" type thing wink
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#2946651 - 09/05/18 06:26 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
And not necessarily a "youth thing", as the two oldest, John andRingo, were barely 30 at the time.
Whitefang


Consider that John had started what became The Beatles when he was about 14 & you can see that by 30 it was no longer a new thing, but something which had occupied over half his life. I think they all wanted off the merry go round.
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#2946667 - 09/05/18 08:18 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Scott Fraser]
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#2946718 - 09/05/18 01:20 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Well, she's definitely on "Let It Be" as she's the one who lovingly makes fun of Paul: "And now we're going to hear how the angels sing".

That's Lennon's falsetto saying, "Hark the angels sing" if that's what yer referencing.

Kinda odd that "debate" abt the breakup of that band's still going sometimes 1/2 C later...but, I guess, a mark of their emotional importance to many (that's separate from their musical vitality & validity).

The truth, as is so often the case is simpler than most wanna think.
Lennon & McCartney were great partners for some time but as their success gave them each less reason to compromise & Macca's ambition/confidence grew at the same pace Lennon's declined (for a while, at least) they had less interest in working together.
Eventually Lennon looked for any excuse to avoid continuing together & finally so did Paul.
End of story.
All the ideas abt outsiders wrecking the band are way down the list of real causes.
Even within that band the departures of Starr & Harrison, at times, never really affected their future.
It was J & P.

One thing The Beatles seemed magical at is encapsulating shared feelings. Telling our story to us.
Here's a couple examples that, to me, tell their story.




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#2946796 - 09/06/18 04:14 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: DocPate]
whitefang Offline
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laugh

RAY CATHODE!

Wasn't he in a band with RAY GAMMA? wink

Anyway..... Interesting article, even though "Rain" was never on my list of Beatles "favorites". And THAT'S a long list!
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#2946809 - 09/06/18 06:58 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
GregC Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
I'm tired of hearing Yoko blamed. As with many things in life, she might have been a lightning rod for pre-existing issues within the group.

Anyway, we're better off that they broke up, since they all went on to do some of their greatest music, and most interesting stylistic changes, post-Beatles. Abbey Road's a great album, but does sort of indicate they might have already hit their artistic peak as a group.


totally agree.
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#2946826 - 09/06/18 08:03 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: GregC]
d Offline
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It's true that some of their individual work was post-Beatling...but I'd say little of that was as innovative as their collaborations.
While I disagree w/the premise that they got better as individuals (except Starr, who, by necessity, kinda blossomed) I think we can agree that they were generally wise not to try, as Lennon once put it, "reheating the souffle".
We've but to look at the debacles of those bands that've behaved as if their only hope was to resurrect their early successes as, basically, cover bands of themselves.
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#2946850 - 09/06/18 09:46 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
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I am 71 years old and was there in London in the '60's. Let me shed some light on this tale.

The myth of John and Yoko has been whitewashed many times and in particular by the image conscious Yoko Ono and her publicist.

John Lennon was a relatively happy and confident man during the first half of The Beatles. Unfortunately his love of recreational drug use eventually led him to a large number of episodes with L.S.D. As a consequence he became quite psychologically fragile with his self confidence diminished. Inside he craved a strong mother figure, an anchor to to guide him. Cynthia Lennon, his current wife at the time, was a somewhat traditional Englishwoman and unable to fill the role.

Yoko Ono was a highly confident and ambitious visual artist on the struggling avant-gaurd scene. She very much wanted success. She first had her sights on the bachelor Paul McCartney but that went nowhere. By luck she met Lennon. After that all it took was a drug fueled weekend of sex together and Lennon was devoted. Japanese sexual practices can be quite extreme, Lennon was quite overwhelmed, and it very much unlike what British girls such as Cynthia had exposed him to. It was if suddenly he had a new guru he could devote to. He had found the salvation he needed and became fiercely devoted to Ono.

Ono was a strong personality and a powerful mother figure. But unfortunately she often put her own self interests ahead of what was best for Lennon. That is human nature in many marriages. She realized there was no place for her in The Beatles. She inspired Lennon to make albums with her instead.

After all was done, I will never forgive her for telling John to get out of the car at the curb that tragic night, instead of letting the driver enter the private courtyard of The Dakota where fans were not allowed. She wanted John to sign autographs with the fans on the sidewalk, even though he was tired from a long studio session. She had been warned ten days earlier by her security consultant to be careful and not take any chances with the public, especially with her son.
So why did she want him to mingle on the sidewalk? Their new album was almost ready to be released and Ono sang half the songs. She always wanted to drum up public interest when a new John and Yoko album was to be released and making contact with the fans was one little way...

At this point I wonder what amazing songs he would have created had he lived. Then I put it out of my mind.

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#2946853 - 09/06/18 09:57 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Jazz+]
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#2946915 - 09/06/18 04:29 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Jazz+]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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I consider "Mind Games" to be Lennon's most innovative post-Beatles album, and one of the best examples in pop music of using a full string backing in a way that is neither cheesy nor overwhelms the song.

The album that followed was a disappointment for me, in spite of the Elton John collaboration, as it seemed to have a lot of filler, as well as a couple of songs that sounded overly derivative of songs on "Mind Games" and "Imagine".

There's some excellent songwriting on "Sometime in NYC", but I'm not one of those who think Elephant's Memory was the best backing band. They had their own schtick going and it was what it was, but the strongest songs on that album for me are the more intimate and naked ones like "John Sinclair", and "Luck of the Irish" (this was the song -- along with the gorgeous "Born in a Prison" -- that permanently erased my earlier prejudice against Yoko).

Don't get me wrong; I enjoy that band and what they did with Lennon (especially live), but there was no way it was ever going to be the highlight of his career, because they were just too loose and jam-oriented to capture the full magic of what Lennon was about.
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#2946988 - 09/07/18 04:25 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
whitefang Offline
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ALL of each Beatles' post band solo efforts is a mixed bag. I apparently thought higher of RINGO's efforts than it seemed most others did,(at least among those in my "circle" ) and among that put out by John and Paul, well, whenever I'M asked, "Who do you think was BETTER post Beatles? John or Paul?"

I always answer;

"GEORGE". wink

My way of saying, "Don't bother me with such horseshit." as I think neither was essentially BETTER than the other, just vastly DIFFERENT. Now, whom I liked better, well, I'd say after all the numbers are in, it's pretty much "neck and neck".
Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (09/07/18 04:28 AM)
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#2947138 - 09/07/18 08:23 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Jazz is kinda right above but Lennon was a bit off kilter even as a teen. He had a very wack childhood.
The fact he was able to play such a strong role in his early adulthood is classic compensation.

Here's a some late Lennon worth considering both for the track & the message...
"After all's said & done ya just can't please everyone so screw it !"
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#2947152 - 09/08/18 04:24 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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"After all's said & done ya just can't please everyone so screw it !"

Hmph!

Ain't that basically what RICKY NELSON said in "Garden Party"? wink
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#2947201 - 09/08/18 12:06 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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& Garden Party was 1 of JL's fave tunes
Garden Party was abt a 1950s pop tunes concert that Rick Nelson (not Nielson!!!!) & others performed at & which, apparently, Lennon took as a personal advisory.
tune in abt :50

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#2947296 - 09/09/18 03:58 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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Sure, we all know that. Some sort of "oldies revival" gig at MADISON SQUARE GARDEN, the "Garden" of "Garden Party". wink
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#2947417 - 09/10/18 09:16 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Hmmm.
I'd guess that's not so well known but I been wrong before & maybe again...
...keep watchin" !





You do know that she was actually a student of John Cage, not just John L, right ?

Still lookin' for that vid of Ono + Dave Cassidy...
but in the mean time...




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#2947429 - 09/10/18 11:14 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
You do know that she was actually a student of John Cage, not just John L, right ?


And member of the Fluxus group, well known (in avant garde circles, which is my personal milieu) artist collective in New York in the 60s, long before going to London & meeting Lennon.
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#2947482 - 09/10/18 02:41 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Scott Fraser]
Jazz+ Offline
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: d
You do know that she was actually a student of John Cage, not just John L, right ?


And member of the Fluxus group, well known (in avant garde circles, which is my personal milieu) artist collective in New York in the 60s, long before going to London & meeting Lennon.


And so was anybody else that wanted to be at that time, it was anything goes for that bohemian group... and I myself also knew John Cage and he didn't think much of her, she was a useful volunteer to lay upon his piano... honestly take look at her art... she was never been an artist with great talent. Her greatest achievement was marrying the Beatle...

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#2947493 - 09/10/18 03:58 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Jazz+]
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I'd have to respectfully disagree that Lennon's choices were based on LSD and wild sex. Lets not forget, he and the boys had many a romp while in Germany. I'm sure they were no strangers to wild sex. And as for LSD. I doubt it "Broke" him. I'd say it was more of a case of suffering from anxiety and depression which he tried to self treat with drugs. I think Yoko offered him the "artist" point of view that he just wasn't getting. A sympathetic ear and an understanding. In the end, as "d" said, I think they were many reasons The Beatles broke up and I don't feel that she was one of them.
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#2947530 - 09/10/18 08:13 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: A String]
d Offline
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YO was also a , um, semi-"graceful" way to get out of partnership w/Macca, as Paul grew more powerful in the band.
At the tail end of the 1960s it very much looked as though "far out" was "way in" grin.
Remember, too, that in the aftermath of their dissolution, it was Mac that got the most negative PR.
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#2947538 - 09/10/18 09:11 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Jazz+]
Jazz+ Offline
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Lennon said he reckoned he had a thousand LSD trips. This is almost certainly an exaggeration. A couple of hundred times over the course of several years I'd be willing to believe. But he first did it in 1965 and talked about it in 1970. If he'd really done it a thousand times then he was dosing himself once every 48 hours for five years. This would mean, for all practical purposes, that he was flying on LSD whenever he was awake. Cynthia said he became a different person and she knew him best. People in the Beatles camp like Mal Evans said that he almost lost himself there. I'm sure you're familiar with the story of John calling in the boys too announce he was the reincarnation of Jesus.

Have any of you doubters, that think John was himself and in a noble state of mind, have you ever tried well over a 100 LSD trips on your brains? Most cases are either died or ended up wandering in the streets. Remember Brian Wilson: “At first, my creativity increased more than I could believe… On the downside, it fucked my brain.”

We probably should blame Dr. Roberts and Timothy Leary for John's case. Ono took over Lennon care at a vulnerable time and "inspired" him to leave the boys and instead become 'The Plastic Ono Band". Perfect for the heroin loving opportunist.

Footnote: Germans are wilder than the British, but the advanced Japanese practices far surpass the European traditions...jeez don't make me spell it out for you.

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#2947561 - 09/11/18 04:03 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Jazz+]
whitefang Offline
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Personally, I too think Lennon exaggerated his acid use to perpetuate some kind of "image" he thought might put him in a "better" light with some people. And too, possibly egged on by all the "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" horseshit. Look up Peter Yarrow's send-up concerning the assertion(from some writer) that "Puff The Magic Dragon" was also a "drug reference" song. wink

At the time too, it seemed John was all about hyperbole, and Paul was all about hubris.
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#2947652 - 09/11/18 11:03 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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One caveat there is that many would just take a taste...so that you weren't completely over the rainbow but just a bit shiny.
One could do that fairly regularly...not to claim there was no exaggeration involved
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#2947680 - 09/11/18 12:44 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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The Nazis invented LSD. Bayer Aspirin invented Heroin as the "cure to the common cold". Nobody invented Yoko Ono. :-)
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#2947693 - 09/11/18 02:07 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
The Nazis invented LSD.

rolleyes
You may be joking, Mark, but that's not the case, although there were/are myriad analogs, anywhat.
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#2947716 - 09/11/18 05:41 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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They invented it, unless the author of the book I just finished is wrong (and she won many awards). The truth is hard to find anymore.
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#2947768 - 09/12/18 04:15 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
They invented it, unless the author of the book I just finished is wrong (and she won many awards). The truth is hard to find anymore.

That last sentence is true---although disinformation's been a plague on humanity throughout history--- but as far as LSD the story's well known. What book ya' citing abt this exciting topic ?

It was an accidental discovery by a lab chemist, Albert Hofmann (not Yippie mastermind Abbie H. grin ).
Here's one source but the story was well-known long before the advent of WPedia or the Net & you'll likely find details in a variety of books or online locs
< https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Hofmann >

Here's a starter list searching "discovery of LSD"
< https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=CfiYW4MwwbawBdXcppgC&q=discovery+of+LSD&btnK=Google+Search&oq=discovery+of+LSD&gs_l=psy-ab.3...9251.14393..15379...3.0..0.162.1630.18j1......0....1..gws-wiz.....6..0j35i39j0i131j0i10.-qyKqBPML_I >

Some might wonder if Germany controlled that area of Switzerland at that time but there seems to be no historical suggestion that they did anything to use the discovery in social control or in way.


Edited by d (09/12/18 04:31 AM)
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#2947770 - 09/12/18 04:30 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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Heh!

I just remembered a buddy of mine said( after hearing Yoko apparently laying an egg on "Cold Turkey", and many moons ago... ) that Yoko was maybe Japan's revenge for Hiroshima!
wink
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#2947774 - 09/12/18 05:01 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Turkey Clodding
Orig w/ Ringo on drums & Lennon doing all gtr


Ye Olde Rock & Roll Concert / Toronto, Cana-dada, Dad
Eric Clapton weighs his options in joining Lennon's band


Living it up w/ Elle Frank's Memory
Chet Atkins---oops, Chester Ayers---on gtr / Jimmy Keltner on drums


Special Listening Section
If ya think you know all abt this song listen to these trax

BOTH will reward the effort twothumbs

Cold Trickey version, feat Rick Nelson---oops, Nielson---on gtr


Freddie Hubbard's 1970 version, feat Herbie Hancock & others
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#2947868 - 09/12/18 11:53 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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That exactly matches what is said in "Operation Paperclip", so for some reason you have chosen to not consider 1938 the Nazi era, or the Swiss complicit (including Hoffman himself).
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#2947870 - 09/12/18 11:59 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Can't do videos or audio, but I have the Hubbard and listened to it quite recently. B-O-R-I-N-G. I don't think he played it when I saw him live around the time that album came out. Haven't heard the Cheap Trick cover; that might be fun. Awful song though.

I love the stuff Ono did with Charlie Haden. She was in the jazz and avant-garde world prior to meeting Lennon, then they did their Primal Scream thing and also she was devastated that her ex took her daughter away. It's a VERY brief part of her musical career, and yet people choose to DEFINE her by that work (but they don't do the same for Lennon's awful contemporaneous album, which had GREAT songs that were nearly all destroyed by his renditions).

Ono is very melodic. Her NORMAL singing voice is not what we're used to in the west, but is in line with what is somewhat typical in more traditional Japanese folk and pop form. She's written some truly gorgeous melodies, such as "Listen, the Snow is Falling", and some fun proto-punk songs that inspired B-52's and others ("Catman", and other stuff from the mid-70's). She was actually more prolific than Lennon during that era, and her songs have been covered by others who are appreciative.
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#2947922 - 09/12/18 02:46 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
That exactly matches what is said in "Operation Paperclip", so for some reason you have chosen to not consider 1938 the Nazi era, or the Swiss complicit (including Hoffman himself).

Unaware til a moment ago of "Op PClip"...& still haven't checked it out fully (frankly it's over 1/2 C ago &, while of historical pertinence, may not be particularly relevant here idk ).

While there were various scientists who did work for the Nazsties & were later brought to the USA (Von Braun of NASA, for ex) that doesn't mean that all scientists who were in Ger or controlled territories worked for Hitler or were themselves Nazsties.

Whatever the case in that regard, nothing that I've ever seen suggests that the discovery of LSD was but an accident & since there were many somewhat similar psychoactive chemicals already available, I'd posit that an effort to deliberately develop a new one was unlikely.

There is a later history of LSD being tested by the CIA, etc, as a control tool but all indications are that, except for possibly making unsuspecting victims all twitchy & spookadelic, it was so unpredictable as to be useless for anything other than making ppl crack up.
My understanding of the Hitler regime is that they had absolutely no compunctions abt just slaughtering folks nor felt the need to operate covertly, so why would they even bother w/that approach ?

There are some who think that it may've been a tool used to divert the more modern protests in 1960s USA but whether that had the intended effect could still be debated. idk
It's use as a disruptive military or strategic tool would've been more effective, I'd say, in something like making a whole populace simultaneously non compos mentis as opposed to a few individuals.

On the other hand it may be the explanation for...


It's effect here is for the listener to decide
Ornette Coleman = trumpet / Ed Blackwell = drums
Charlie Haden & David Izenzon = basses


The same caveat applies to the emotive writing here
Bob Dylan's Voice Lowered 3 Semitones.
Removing the "nasal"-sound quality of Bob Dylan's voice in some of his songs it reveals a different kind of voice.
All credits to: < https://soundcloud.com/bobsothervoice >



Back to the LenOno thang, here's one that may surprise many
An old European folk song



& here's "Snow Is Falling" that Mark mentioned


& for those who like a bit of trance-funk (or trance folk)
compare these

Which is more oddball ?






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#2947998 - 09/13/18 04:02 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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That "Bob's other voice" thing is interesting. But, any long time Dylan "freak" is aware Bob could actually sing smoothly enough when his mind was put to it. wink
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#2948021 - 09/13/18 06:44 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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I dunno.
I think his vox are on a par w/what most ppl think of Ono.

Even on NASHRAMBLER SKYLINE & some of the leftover tracks that went onto ELF'S PORTRAIT, which most ppl consider his "smoovy smoove" vox (& was, I think accomplished via Bob Johnston's EQ in an attempt to make the new improved homey Dyl more radio friendly rather than a real diff in his singing) there's a barky quality to his vox & as he's aged, w/ some attendant health probs he's like Croaky the Frog.

The thing that sells his vocal delivery is not his voice but his almost inimitable phrasing.
He's actually a terribly self-conscious & uncertain singer, which is one reason his deliver of many songs varies over time.


We now return you to our regularly scheduled program, "Bashifying Yoko OhNo"...
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#2948025 - 09/13/18 06:55 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
Larryz Offline
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Well one more little comment as we are comparing Yoko's crappy vocals and baying at the moon to Bobby D's vocals history. The Nashville Skyline album did show the world that Bob could sing and had another side to his vocals. +1 As he got older he got croaky like an old frog, but the lyrics and delivery were still there. I like all of his vocals from Highway 61, John Wesley Hardin, Blood on the Tracks, etc., through today. Here's a cut from Nashville and I loved Lay Lady Lay with Johnny too!




Now back to Yoko LOL! cool
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#2948212 - 09/14/18 03:32 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
I dunno.
I think his vox are on a par w/what most ppl think of Ono.

Even on NASHRAMBLER SKYLINE & some of the leftover tracks that went onto ELF'S PORTRAIT, which most ppl consider his "smoovy smoove" vox (& was, I think accomplished via Bob Johnston's EQ in an attempt to make the new improved homey Dyl more radio friendly rather than a real diff in his singing) there's a barky quality to his vox & as he's aged, w/ some attendant health probs he's like Croaky the Frog


Well sure, Bob's voice did get raspier and rawer (and "croaky") as he got older. And due to many reasons. But I'll contend that the "most ppl" that are referred to are usually that majority of the general public that were unfamiliar with Bob BEFORE "Like A Rolling Stone", which is about the time he quit putting in that much effort in his vocals. And BTW---

I don't recall Cash joining in on "Lay Lady Lay". from "Nashville Skyline", but Bob DID surprise most "come-lately's" with the often well done vocals on that LP. And I think it was "Girl From The North Country" that Johhny joined him on. wink
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#2948236 - 09/14/18 06:35 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Yeah, I think you got that right Fang...Cash was on the North Country. Sorry about the brain fart! facepalm
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#2948410 - 09/15/18 04:34 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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'Salright.....

But, it WAS fun seein' them both doin' that tune on Cash's TV show.
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#2948427 - 09/15/18 07:25 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Yeah, I have it on DVD! There were a ton of the old greats on that Cash show when they were still young. Fun to watch! cool
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#2948477 - 09/15/18 01:24 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
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FWIW & BTW, I like a lota of the Dyls work but, as expressive as he was/is he was never a good singer.
He's more like Mick Jagger: an inflector of content.
Lennon, Paul McCarcerateMePlease, Rod Stewart, ... those are good male rock singers. Bob has never been a good singer.
Back to killing YO, who, IMHO, falls into exactly the same pit as Bob as far as, uh, sangin' [real Dyl fans'll get that grin , "Locust"s & all ].
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#2948485 - 09/15/18 01:55 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
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John, Paul, George AND Ringo have all said it wasn't Yoko who broke up the Beatles. I figure they know.
Yoko didn't force her way into John's musical career, he dragged her into it. If anyone is to blame for foisting her onto his fans, he is.
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#2948492 - 09/15/18 02:19 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: picker]
d Offline
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Is that not correct ?!
thu
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#2948556 - 09/15/18 10:13 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
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In retrospect, I'd say that what really happened is that McCartney fired the band and moved on.

And that's also more logical as he's the one who didn't work with any of them again for many years, while they were all pretty much still playing together.

If Lennon had still had his act together, he probably would have drafted Billy Preston into the band, asked Klaus Voorman (who may have declined due to competing loyalties with multiple friendships), or someone else, to replace Paul.

Remember, Paul is the one who made the OFFICIAL announcement that he had quit the band and/or that the band was "no more" (I think primarily the former, with implications of the latter but not an explicit statement as such).

Paul was the one whose musical abilities had progressed the quickest; he absorbed everything George Martin had to teach, and more, was the most exploratory of styles/genres/instruments/composition, and had become increasingly frustrated by the technical abilities of his bandmates, the squabbles, and the lack of focus and energy compared to his own.

BTW this is not putting him on a pedestal; it's just an observation of how I think things went down. But I think all of them were eager to extend their musical range by jamming with other players, and were feeling they had reached their limit in that configuration.
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#2948573 - 09/16/18 04:42 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
whitefang Offline
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Paul always (to me) seemed to be the "smarmy" Beatle, chock full of hubris. And usually reminded me of those girls you knew in school who were gorgeous and KNEW it. wink

John had a measure of all that too. JUST a bit shy of Paul in that regard, only outdoing Paul in obdurance.
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#2948669 - 09/16/18 04:29 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
picker Offline
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As I understand it, they were all incredibly tired of each other. They were basically locked up together for years, and it kinda got to the point that kids in the backseat on a long trip get to, when "STOP TOUCHING ME!" seems a valid thing to fight about.

George was sick of being subservient to Paul & John on songwriting and pretty much everything else, John had deferred to Paul for a while because he was interested in other things, among which was Yoko, but he got tired of Paul taking over the leadership, particularly when he wanted Lee Eastman(Linda's dad) to take over the management. Paul was full enough of himself that he felt like he needed to be in charge.

Actually, John was the one who said "I quit" first, but Paul was the first to issue a press release and a solo record. George was just as happy with them hauling a$$ and leaving him to work on his own music. Ringo was self-medicating with booze, and kinda knew something was up, but felt pulled different directions.

I don't think Paul was as disappointed with the general level of musicianship as he was with the direction the songwriting wasn't going. He wanted to things to remain more on the pop/happy-go-lucky side, and John wanted get rawer and more "honest". George just wanted to get his songs on their records. When you look at the musicians he hired to tour with following the breakup, there wasn't anybody who was that much better than John, George & Ringo.
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#2948826 - 09/18/18 04:59 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: picker]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: picker
George was sick of being subservient to Paul


Geoge joked about that on the Anthology tapes, saying something like...

"Paul always felt he had to Lord it over me because he was 9 months older than me. Even today, he's STILL.... 9 months older than me." wink
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#2948911 - 09/18/18 12:08 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: picker
tired of Paul taking over the leadership, particularly when he wanted Lee Eastman(Linda's dad) to take over the management.

It's said that McCartney had learned from the experience of Mick Jagger that Allen Klein, while able to get them a lot more money by renegotiating their deal w/EMI, was not to be trusted but that JL liked Klein's "street" style & refused to trust Eastman's posh alternative.
Originally Posted By: picker
Actually, John was the one who said "I quit" first,

It may be worth pointing out that both Ringo (during the White album) & Harrison (during Let it Be) had quit already but were coaxed back.
Also that Harrison & Lennon had issued several individual albs before the final break-up; Starr's 1st solo alb was issued the same month as McCartney's....he also had what looked to be a lucrative future in films.
One of Lennon's later contentions was that a cartoon of their demise would be 4 panels: the 1st 3 w/one guy leaving in each panel & then PM in the last panel yelling, "I QUIT !"
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
In retrospect, I'd say that what really happened is that McCartney fired the band and moved on.

I'm sure it looked that way to him & there's some validity to that idea.
Here's what some think's a sideways comment on the band


My dog got 3 legs but can't run...
I thought you was my friend but y'let me down...
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#2949822 - 09/24/18 01:06 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
d Offline
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Every sec of this vid tells us sumpin abt what

Salient moments: Lennon looking around the room while working his way through the track
Ringo STARR! doing his job

Roll on, Bros & Sis, roll on
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#2949992 - 09/25/18 09:57 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
Every sec of this vid tells us sumpin abt what

Salient moments: Lennon looking around the room while working his way through the track
Ringo STARR! doing his job
Roll on, Bros & Sis, roll on


And George apparently sitting this take out.
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#2950008 - 09/25/18 11:03 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Scott Fraser]
d Offline
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Not this one however


that's a great one for nostalgia but the followingis nuch more informative abt the mechanics of music promotion, TV appearances & the roles the band members slipped into when interacting
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#2950015 - 09/25/18 11:48 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
d Offline
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As we continue kicking the corpus of The Beatles around, let me posit a new question: how many times did they record the same song ?
& for the adventurous among us lemme point out it's more than may be obvious.
Not only do we have items such as this


but try this...Play the relatively easily deciphered "Get Back" but add the lyrics from "Back In The USSR".
Voila..."Get Back In The USSR" grin

& don't let this one upset yer dreams tonight
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#2950090 - 09/25/18 08:45 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
p90jr Offline
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I've been listening to "Double Fantasy" and "Milk & Honey" by John and Yoko a bit the past couple of days, for the first time beyond the singles, really... and it was reading interviews with Earl Slick about the sessions that got me doing that...

I was familiar with Yoko's songs "Kiss Kiss Kiss" and "I'm Moving On" and liked them... I like her songs on these records... I honestly enjoy them as much as John's, though as a punk and new wave kid I'm primed to do that... and while she was tapping into emerging new wave and Asian pop sounds of that time and before, she certainly inspired a lot of stuff in those realms over the past couple of decades... actually, the first time I played the first B-52's record my mom asked if it was Yoko shrieking along on "Rock Lobster."

Anyway... there's a stripped down version of the "Double Fantasy" record done for its anniversary a few years ago, with the production done a little more natural and rougher (no double-tracked vocals, less "lush" soundstages) that I prefer... it even makes me like songs like "Woman" in their stripped down state that were too corny for me as a kid who'd heard The Ramones and The Sex Pistols...

Then again, Lennon joked that this was his "middle-aged man with kids" record, so maybe I had to grow into some of it...

"Watching The Wheels" always killed me... it's the song I remember being played on TV with a photo montage after they announced his death...

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#2950126 - 09/26/18 04:43 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: p90jr]
whitefang Offline
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I might look that up.... for ex. :

I wasn't all that impressed with "Double Fantasy", as I saw it as more another "Lennon Loves Reverb" type thing. But then too---
I wasn't all that thrilled with LET IT BE until they put out the "Naked" version, stripped of all that PHIL SPECTOR over production. wink
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#2950167 - 09/26/18 09:56 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
I wasn't all that thrilled with LET IT BE until they put out the "Naked" version, stripped of all that PHIL SPECTOR over production. wink
Whitefang


The really good version of Let It Be was the heavily bootlegged collection of rough mixes, done before the tapes went to Spector. I got the Naked CD & recall thinking it wasn't the original rough mixes at all. I listened to Naked exactly once. Or you can stream the audio off the movie. That's all as raw as they played it.
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#2950171 - 09/26/18 10:34 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: p90jr]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: p90jr
I've been listening to "Double Fantasy" and "Milk & Honey" by John and Yoko a bit the past couple of days, for the first time beyond the singles, really... and it was reading interviews with Earl Slick about the sessions that got me doing that...

Were those in Ken Sharp's 2K10 book STARTING OVER : THE MAKING OF JL'S & YO'S DOUBLE FANTASY ? If not y' might wanna chk that out.
IIRC, it details the sessions in reasonably well, incl info from Jack Douglas & the band

Originally Posted By: p90jr
I was familiar with Yoko's songs "Kiss Kiss Kiss" and "I'm Moving On" and liked them... I like her songs on these records... I honestly enjoy them as much as John's, though as a punk and new wave kid I'm primed to do that... and while she was tapping into emerging new wave and Asian pop sounds of that time and before, she certainly inspired a lot of stuff in those realms over the past couple of decades... actually, the first time I played the first B-52's record my mom asked if it was Yoko shrieking along on "Rock Lobster."

JL was on record as citing the B52's as inciting his interest in re-entering the commercial music mkt, specifically as a place for YO's work.
Other-handedly, there's a reasonable case that JL invented punk rock w/ his trax such as Cold Turkey.

Originally Posted By: p90jr
Anyway... there's a stripped down version of the "Double Fantasy" record done for its anniversary a few years ago, with the production done a little more natural and rougher (no double-tracked vocals, less "lush" soundstages) that I prefer... it even makes me like songs like "Woman" in their stripped down state that were too corny for me as a kid who'd heard The Ramones and The Sex Pistols...
Then again, Lennon joked that this was his "middle-aged man with kids" record, so maybe I had to grow into some of it...
"Watching The Wheels" always killed me... it's the song I remember being played on TV with a photo montage after they announced his death...

Personally I think Lennon's best work from that time was held for later. Note that's Tony Levin bassing on the track & in the vid, not a member of CTrick.
Them NY cats did well but I think Rick Nielson,etc, played w/ more, uh, verve.

Alternate vid edit feat some JL playing that wack Sardonyx gtr (chosen for it's name ???)
[ https://www.guitarplayer.com/gear/john-lennons-weirdest-guitar-the-sardonyx ]


Bonus: Trickster's get simultaneously rock rough & arty on a classic JL track.

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#2951666 - 10/05/18 10:14 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
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The Emperor's New Clothes comes to mind.


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#2951723 - 10/06/18 09:35 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Jazz+]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
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Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Some ppl get set in opinions & nothing may shake them.
John Zorn's never really been a groundbreaking artist, IMO.
Here's YO & Ornette Coleman's band from Feb 1968 when there was nothing to be gained by association w/John Lennon's then-not established gal pal.
Kinda sounds like what Miles Davis would be doing a few years hence, if you ask me.
That doesn't mean ya gotta like it but it undercuts the idea that they weren't legitimately doing that for it's inherent sound.


Here's something completely different: an old English folk melody.
Again it may not appeal to all but you can't fault her pitch.

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#2951752 - 10/06/18 01:54 PM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: d]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
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Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Charlie Haden is my ultimate hero on upright bass, so I was pleasantly surprised when I finally bought Yoko's POB record a number of years after it came out and saw him and Ornette's band backing her on one tune.

I'm not much into that sort of thing anymore, but from the early 70's through to the mid 80's at least, I was a huge participant in the avant garde scene. Ironically, people now criticize my work of the past 25 to 30 years as being "too melodic". So maybe I swung too far back the other way. :-)
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#2952305 - 10/10/18 04:42 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
whitefang Offline
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MY "upright hero" is EBERHARD WEBER, but Charlie's great too.

Anyway.....

I was a bit undecided whether to announce JOHN LENNON'S posthumous 78th birthday yesterday in this thread or the "Posthumous birthdays" thread of mine and didn't get it in either. frown

Whitefang
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#2952306 - 10/10/18 05:12 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
Mogut Offline
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Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 2013
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: whitefang
MY "upright hero" is EBERHARD WEBER, but Charlie's great too.

Anyway.....

I was a bit undecided whether to announce JOHN LENNON'S posthumous 78th birthday yesterday in this thread or the "Posthumous birthdays" thread of mine and didn't get it in either. frown

Whitefang


oh yeah. same day as mine !
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#2952373 - 10/10/18 11:16 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mogut]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 9105
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
You're posthumous already? Or was that meant to be post-humerous?

I'm a big fan of hummus myself.
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Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager

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#2952483 - 10/11/18 04:33 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: Mark Schmieder]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11195
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
sick
Hummus?

Best tile grout EVER! laugh
Whitefang
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#2952513 - 10/11/18 08:29 AM Re: The Beatles and Yoko Ono [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
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Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
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