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MIDI Manufacturers Association proposes mini-jack TRS std


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https://www.kvraudio.com/news/midi-manufacturers-association-releases-trs-adapter-specification-for-midi-devices-42253

 

Until I got to the mini-jack description in the article, I was quite confused as I initially thought of 1/4" TRS or even XLR jacks.

 

Now I see where they're going with this though: it's meant to address the removal of DIN from many devices (or the lack of room for one, due to device height), and to propose a protocol standard that will allow manufacturers to repurpose existing mini-jacks (or add new ones) that can cover a broader range of modern devices.

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Nice. I have a AKAI mini controller which is only USB, which is frustrating if you want to use it to control synth modules. Hopefully they will start using these connector in devices where before they opted to forego the inclusion of the DIN jacks.

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does it still have 5 pins, the HX3 MIDI module, for example, uses pins 1,2 & 3 to power their drawbar controller.

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does it still have 5 pins, the HX3 MIDI module, for example, uses pins 1,2 & 3 to power their drawbar controller.

 

TRS is Tip, Ring, Sleeve. So no -that's 3 conductors, no pins.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Positively no f--king way.

 

1)Most 1/8"interconnects are not long life. They are optimal for cheap consumer goods but not professional. Study the specs of minijacks and see for yourself.

2)One of the least reliable interconnects out there. Only RCA is worse.

3)Yes I know that Euro and most modular formats use minijacks. They will fail eventually, like the cheap ones on ARP 2600s.

4)Too easy to confuse with headphone output. Plug 8ohm buds in them and you could damage your hearing.

5)Vulnerable to damage with partial insertion. If ring is shorted to sleeve (ground) with partial insertion, you could damage the MIDI out driver. The force on minijacks isn't strong enough to hold a plug intact, thus it takes little tension to pull a plug partway out.

6)For the same reason I refuse to replace my DVDs with BluRays, I refuse to make new MIDI cables for anything adopting this format. Too many cables in my arsenal already.

 

Absolutely. No. F--king. Way.

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I suppose after 34 years and no real upgrade than Spec. 2 they had to earn their money somehow.

Nothing appeals to manufacturers than cutting corners.

 

Before long MLAN variant using a fiber optic beam will carry all OSC, Audio and MIDI.

 

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Change is always bad.

 

It´s just only an alternative for small devices where´s no room for DIN connectors,- and the wireing standard rules for all TRS connectors,- not only for "mini",- and it´s all about compatibility w/ DIN connectors.

I seriously doubt mini-TRS will replace DIN connectors in pro gear like 19" rackmount devices or "Large" dimensioned keyboard instruments.

 

"today´s mobile musician" (quote Gary Kerzner/ IK M.) ... LOLest !

 

As a musician, I was mobile w/ all kind of rig sizes for decades and until my mobility crapped out by serious health issues.

Nonetheless I don´t feel any need for tiny consumer electronic devices, 1-oct keyboard controllers and such.

 

I hate mini-TRS audio connectors, so I´ll hate ´em for MIDI too.

 

A.C.

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does it still have 5 pins, the HX3 MIDI module, for example, uses pins 1,2 & 3 to power their drawbar controller.

That's a non-standard usage. Only pins 4/5/2(shield/ground) are covered by the MIDI spec.

 

The MMA information is not a recommendation to use the mini-TRS connectors, rather it's an attempt to create a standard for wiring them. Some manufacturers were already using those connectors - the problem was that they weren't all using the same pinout.

 

https://www.midi.org/articles-old/3-5mm-mini-stereo-cables-to-midi-5-pin-din

 

Creative already used a mini-DIN for MIDI on some of their gear.

 

Personally, I'm not changing my avatar.  :mad:;)

 

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I've been doing gigs for a long time with my laptop, using a 1/8" stereo mini plug to deliver my audio 1/8" miniplug to two 1/4" TS plugs that go into my powered speakers or DI boxes. Yes, I'm careful about making sure there is strain relief, so any inadvertent pull on the cable (hopefully!) does not affect the connection I wrap the cable around the handle of my SKB Studio Flyer case a few times before plugging into the laptop headphone jack. Other than that I never give this a second thought and it's been working fine for years. So, not "professional" I guess .... but it's working OK for me. So far at least! :)
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The MMA information is not a recommendation to use the mini-TRS connectors, rather it's an attempt to create a standard for wiring them. Some manufacturers were already using those connectors - the problem was that they weren't all using the same pinout.

 

 

Leave it to the MMA to decimate my potential multi-million dollar product line :evil: . I built this when I had the Plankton ANTS module for a short time and found it's MIDI TRS jack wired opposite that of the Make Noise 0-Coast. Actually Plankton ANTS only uses T/R iirc; sleeve is unconnected, otherwise you get a nasty ground loop.

IMG_5518_zpsuvpn5wfq.jpg

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3.5mm minijacks have officially been pro standard for a couple of years now, but goddammit, those little pieces of shit will never be stage material as far as Im concerned.

 

Emergency fall-back at the most.

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3)Yes I know that Euro and most modular formats use minijacks. They will fail eventually, like the cheap ones on ARP 2600s.

 

The other jacks are TS but certainly just as vulnerable to breakage, especially since those are the ones being yanked all the time. Yet I haven't read about this being a real problem although maybe it was at one time? I'm not defending 3.5 TRS as replacements for normal keyboards/synths but for the devices they're mostly intended for how often are people messing with the midi jack?

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Leave it to the MMA to decimate my potential multi-million dollar product line :evil: . I built this when I had the Plankton ANTS module for a short time and found it's MIDI TRS jack wired opposite that of the Make Noise 0-Coast. Actually Plankton ANTS only uses T/R iirc; sleeve is unconnected, otherwise you get a nasty ground loop.

IMG_5518_zpsuvpn5wfq.jpg

Indeed. MIDI spec for the DIN connector requires pin 2 to be grounded for MIDI-OUT, but unconnected for MIDI-IN. About a dozen years ago I found that the noise problem with a system was due to a certain Behringer product (Virtualizer DSP 1000) having pin 2 of the MIDI-IN connector grounded. Disconnecting that ground resolved the problem.

 

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The MIDI specs mandates that only the MIDI IN port's pin 2 be isolated from ground precisely to prevent ground loops. Since the transmission system is a current loop (pins 4 and 5), no ground reference is needed at both ends. You can thank ARP for pushing that mandate, which they implemented in their Chroma (Yes it was CBS/Rhodes but the development team were ARP folks).
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I'm against it for reliability reasons.

 

My day job is public school IT, where mini-TRS is used for almost all audio. The tips of cheap plugs occasionally break off -- irretrievably -- into sealed-during-manufacture mini jacks. When that happens, there is no fix in a lab setting, and so we have to either replace the whole CPU unit, or do without audio at that station.

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I'm against it for reliability reasons.

 

My day job is public school IT, where mini-TRS is used for almost all audio. The tips of cheap plugs occasionally break off -- irretrievably -- into sealed-during-manufacture mini jacks. When that happens, there is no fix in a lab setting, and so we have to either replace the whole CPU unit, or do without audio at that station.

 

Not disagreeing with your aversion to mini jacks but is this worth a shot for your school scenario?

 

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So what tiny connector carries three lines, uses the same or less physical space than a 1/8" minijack, and is considered "professional"? Not being a smartass, but there has to be something out there and I'm curious what the experts here might nominate.

 

I have to assume using the 1/8" stereo plug/jack format for MIDI is more a matter of convenience to the manufacturers since those are commodity parts that add very little cost hell, they probably cost less than the 5-pin DIN connectors. And 1/8" TRS cables can be bought at drugstores. So, cheap & convenient who needs reliable? :)

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I would think gigers would want more secure connections. screw or click on backshells.

 

 

 

 

 

i

 

 

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They should plan for the long term and use USB-C.

 

I can expect that this will happen - and all devices (apart from Kronos XXX v3 and whatever Crumar are up to) will be device-only. In other words they'll all be able to connect to computers, but not to each other. 5-pin MIDI is peer-to-peer, there's no distinction betweeen device and host.

 

There's a small hope in me that this mini-TRS development will encourage manufacturers to "repurpose" a mini-jack on the instrument (say for AUX IN) and support "peer-to-peer" MIDI. No extra hardware cost, just software.

 

Cheers, Mike.

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Exactly; it's addressing a need for contexts where DIN is not an option.

 

What appeals to me about this, is that it DOES also cover TRS in other form factors. I don't have much experience with mini-jacks but am not surprised to hear they're unreliable. Certainly RCA is bad, which is why I avoid S/PDIF over that form factor.

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Darn it, couldn't they have used RJ-11 (telephone) and twisted pair? There's got to be a lot of them laying around, since the ascent of cell phones. You could even bump it up to RJ45, use Cat 6, and easily adapt to multiple speeds a bit higher than 31,250 bps.

 

Hey, I can even be more negative -- try this one: what happens when people start plugging their mini-TRS MIDI into an audio output, or plug their ear buds into a MIDI jack, or....

-Tom Williams

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Darn it, couldn't they have used RJ-11 ...

 

The MMA did not _choose_ to use the TRS connector. More than a dozen manufacturers were selling products with TRS connectors for MIDI (mostly to fit in very small space). They were not all wired the same, each manufacturer chose their own wiring scheme, so they were not compatible with each other. The MMA decided to write a wiring guideline with the hope that at least those manufacturers who choose to use TRS would use one method so compatibility between those devices would be improved.

Mike Kent

- Chairman of MIDI 2.0 Working Group

- MIDI Association Executive Board

- Co-Author of USB Device Class Definition for MIDI Devices 1.0 and 2.0

 

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The MMA did not _choose_ to use the TRS connector. More than a dozen manufacturers were selling products with TRS connectors for MIDI (mostly to fit in very small space). They were not all wired the same, each manufacturer chose their own wiring scheme, so they were not compatible with each other. The MMA decided to write a wiring guideline with the hope that at least those manufacturers who choose to use TRS would use one method so compatibility between those devices would be improved.

 

Thank you Mike and MIDI2XS! :like:

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They should plan for the long term and use USB-C.

As others have said, this is about standardizing what companies are already doing. But also, there's already a standard for MIDI over USB, which adapts to USB-C, but USB remains a slave/host protocol and would not be a functional replacement for the DIN connectors, unless you simply wanted to use the same connector for a whole different protocol, which would just be confusing!

 

Darn it, couldn't they have used RJ-11 (telephone) and twisted pair?

Ugh! Besides the point of trying to standardize what people are already doing, RJ-11 and the like are the worst. They're fine for something you plug in once or twice, but for things that you routinely plug and unplug? Those little tabs break off all the time. That is not a stage-rugged connector by any means. Even worse than 1/8" plugs.

 

There's a small hope in me that this mini-TRS development will encourage manufacturers to "repurpose" a mini-jack on the instrument (say for AUX IN) and support "peer-to-peer" MIDI. No extra hardware cost, just software.

I wouldn't assume that it's only software that determines whether a jack is inputting/outputting analog audio or digital data, there's likely additional hardware required. Plus it would be a bummer to have to lose one function to get the other. (And how many boards have Aux In and no MIDI jacks in the first place?)

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