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Is The Guitar World Dead hi #2940773 08/01/18 04:56 PM
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Is it just me or is the world of guitars dead? Nothing new or exciting! Sure, we talk about new stuff like pedals, modeling amps, and Gibson's woes, but where is the Jimi, Stevie Ray, Django, or whomever that's creating the excitement?

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2940779 08/01/18 05:19 PM
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It's not dead. It just smells funny.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: CEB] #2940791 08/01/18 06:02 PM
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Not near dead, there are lots of good young guitarist. Musical tastes have changed, blues and rock guitarists no longer get the big stage. Greta Van Fleet is playing in a 1000 capacity venue in Honolulu, as an example.
Here is a short list:
Kenny Wayne Shepherd (41 the oldest)
Gary Clark Jr
Brittany Howard
Marissa Paternoster
Jake Kiszka (22 the youngest)
The list could go on, they are out there, it is just a different era and they play mostly in anonymity.




Last edited by surfergirl; 08/01/18 06:06 PM.

Jenny S.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2940810 08/01/18 07:13 PM
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There are still a lot of great guitar players out there. Just got to buy a ticket and go see them now and then. cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2940824 08/01/18 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Is it just me or is the world of guitars dead? Nothing new or exciting! Sure, we talk about new stuff like pedals, modeling amps, and Gibson's woes, but where is the Jimi, Stevie Ray, Django, or whomever that's creating the excitement?

Yer just not looking for what's out there.
You think it's dead b/c, maybe, yer imagination is closed to what's new.

That's harsh sounding but don't let yerself be sucked under , Buddy.
Here's some trite but true advice: be the change....


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2940835 08/01/18 10:13 PM
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We talked about related topics in other forums. Younger generation players vs the old guys. I'm a keyboardist and we are sort or more rare than other instrumentalist where I live so I am fortunate to get to play with younger acts. I also play some pedal steel where you are expected to be older than Hell.

I like playing with young'uns. There are not as many players with the newer generations as with my generation. There are more things competing for young people's time but on average I think the people who take up playing today get better faster than we did. It makes sense with the easy dissemination of information on the internet and things like YouTube and Skype. I have local friends doing online Skype lessons with Brent Mason. It is a new ballgame today.

I like playing with younger people. They have more energy. A lot of guys my age are stuck in what is now called Classic Rock or sometimes Blues. Some days I think they are just too lazy to learn new songs. I'm always hoping to win that 21-35 year old female market. If the women come to the shows the men will follow.

I mean if we just had Audacity when I was a teenager and I could slow stuff down without altering pitch or pitch correct material without changing speed I could have transcribe everything at a much earlier age. There just isn't as many young players taking up the art and many today do not want to gig. Many really hot young cats are coming out of churches today.

Last edited by CEB; 08/01/18 10:16 PM.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: CEB] #2940837 08/01/18 10:39 PM
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All true I admit. I'm open to change but where's the innovation? Love of covers and I see many tribute bands. Sure, we have new artists cutting records playing songs that have a good rock sound. Just not really new. IMHO

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2940849 08/02/18 12:02 AM
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With the amount of music that has been made since the innovations in recording back in the early 1900's through the 60's and through till now there has been a myriad of differing styles, melodies, even new genera's.

The stuff being recorded as popular music today is different than anything that came before. I don't listen to it, but my wife does and I hear stuff in it that I never heard before. The guitar is either missing or in the very background.

The guitar does not seem to have the same place in popular musical taste ever since the big rock, blues, jazz, and country guitar players of the 50's, 60's, and 70's, even a little of the 80's.

All that said, I still love making noise on my three guitars... cheers


dbm
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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: CEB] #2940856 08/02/18 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: CEB
We talked about related topics in other forums. Younger generation players vs the old guys. I'm a keyboardist and we are sort or more rare than other instrumentalist where I live so I am fortunate to get to play with younger acts. I also play some pedal steel where you are expected to be older than Hell.

I like playing with young'uns. There are not as many players with the newer generations as with my generation. There are more things competing for young people's time but on average I think the people who take up playing today get better faster than we did. It makes sense with the easy dissemination of information on the internet and things like YouTube and Skype. I have local friends doing online Skype lessons with Brent Mason. It is a new ballgame today.

I like playing with younger people. They have more energy. A lot of guys my age are stuck in what is now called Classic Rock or sometimes Blues. Some days I think they are just too lazy to learn new songs. I'm always hoping to win that 21-35 year old female market. If the women come to the shows the men will follow.

I mean if we just had Audacity when I was a teenager and I could slow stuff down without altering pitch or pitch correct material without changing speed I could have transcribe everything at a much earlier age. There just isn't as many young players taking up the art and many today do not want to gig. Many really hot young cats are coming out of churches today.


I'm a keyboardist and we are sort or more rare than other instrumentalist where I live

That's everywhere... as proof of that, I've been hired for gigs as a keyboardist... and I suck. And they called me and insisted I do the gig after I made damn sure they knew I sucked, and I would bring a guitar, too, so that I could save face at some point, because I really suck on keys.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2940857 08/02/18 12:52 AM
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Then I started paying attention... most of the guys on keys are faking it like I did... a tell-tale moment was when a band inevitably played "Don't Stop Believing"... the keyboardist either did one hand and let the bass guitar play the left-hand part in the intro... or the didn't play on the intro at all, strangely... I can at least pull that one off half the time...

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2940860 08/02/18 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
I'm open to change but where's the innovation? Love of covers and I see many tribute bands. Sure, we have new artists cutting records playing songs that have a good rock sound. Just not really new. IMHO


I'm really not interested in what cover bands are playing, nor most people with record contracts. The guitar interests me because it's the means I have for making music, & it knows a whole lot more than I ever will about making music. It teaches me something every time I pick it up. Guitar isn't dead for me at all, it's an ongoing learning, enriching experience. I don't care if nobody else is innovating with it. It's my own relationship with the guitar that interests me.


Scott Fraser
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Scott Fraser] #2940861 08/02/18 01:43 AM
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Relating to Scott`s comment, here is my reply to your FB version.

If I may be so bold-since when is guitar all about being a spectator? I`ll go further-since when is music about that? being bored with what`s out there is the best motivation for picking up your instrument and doing something different. If you don`t get free guitars for life out of the deal, so what? do it anyway.


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2940863 08/02/18 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Relating to Scott`s comment, here is my reply to your FB version.

If I may be so bold-since when is guitar all about being a spectator? I`ll go further-since when is music about that? being bored with what`s out there is the best motivation for picking up your instrument and doing something different. If you don`t get free guitars for life out of the deal, so what? do it anyway.


I play what I play because it's what I want to hear- and feel and experience- that I'm generally not getting, for the most part, anywhere else. Or, it's more of what I want that I already liked.


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2940870 08/02/18 04:06 AM
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Younger guitarists worth listening to?

Animals As Leader’s Tosin Abasi?



Rival Sons’ Scott Holiday?



Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation:
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2940872 08/02/18 04:26 AM
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Or the young to youngish guitar slingers in Japanese bands like Asterism, Polysics, and Elephant Gym?





Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation:
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2940873 08/02/18 04:32 AM
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Touchstyle guitarists like Jan Laurentz?




And other YouTubers like Diego Ferri?




Last edited by Dannyalcatraz; 08/02/18 04:45 AM.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2940893 08/02/18 09:14 AM
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There will always be creative people out there - the question is, WILL THEY BE HEARD? Mass media will mostly not promote them, being stuck in formulas. They want to stick with the tried and true, and not risk spending big bucks on something new. This is not true just in music. Check out all the remakes on Broadway and movies and on TV - maybe different names, but the same old plot lines.

So it's up to us to seek out creative people flying under the radar. With YouTube you can find them easily. And then support ones you think are deserving.

As far as major sea changes, like with Hendrix and the Beatles, Miles and Coltrane, etc. - that affect the music scene in general, that's not so easy to find. It doesn't seem like true innovators with mass popularity are born every day.

In the meantime, I've got a big record(ing) collection and access to the Net, and won't be dying of musical starvation any time soon, LOL.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Eric Iverson] #2940919 08/02/18 11:17 AM
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When looking at the birthday thread everyday, I'm amazed at the number of old dudes and the lack of new dudes (and gals) as known guitarists that are out there today. The average age is way over 40, 50 and 60. Many are from back in the day when I was a teeny bopper. Bands like the Beatles, CCR, Cream and Stones, and many other rockers were in their 20's. I keep asking where are all the new guitar heroes these days? idk


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2940944 08/02/18 12:46 PM
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Guitar had it's day several times in my lifetime, the twangsters of the 50's the rocksters of the 60's, the punkers of the late 70's, the hair bands of the 80's. Then the guitar faded away a bit but sure enough it will reappear someday somehow in a new incarnation of innovation.....


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: desertbluesman] #2940962 08/02/18 02:11 PM
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Let me turn the question around, if I may.

How many of us have bought a Guitar or Amp made in this century, one that isn't simply an extension or a reissue of an existing line?

How many of us are using any effects designed and built in this century?

How many of us use a Guitar, or Amp design that didn't exist 10-15-20 years ago?

Anyone here playing an ERG (Extended Range Guitar) like a 7- 8- or 9-string?

When is the last time you tried some Instrument, Device or technique that was completely unfamiliar?

Anybody listening to, or looking for, new, younger players in their local scene, instead of waiting to hear something new by accident?

Very often, when established players try to do something new, their old fans turn away. I remember a number of players who were perplexed when John McLaughlin fired up a Ring Modulator. I also recall a King Crimson show back in 2000, (the Level Five tour) when the band was bringing out some of the most exciting and challenging new material I'd heard in years, and some yahoo in the audience yelled out, "Are you trying to get us to leave?"

I know a lot of folks my age who never listen to any band, or much of any Music, that appeared after the mid-1970's. I know a lot of players who aren't using anything that wouldn't be familiar to Hendrix or John Lennon, if they were still with us. I often wonder what Hendrix would be using, if he were still alive and playing? Do we really think he'd still be fronting a Strat and a line of Marshall stacks?

Leo Fender continued designing Guitars long after selling Fender, and while many of his later G&L designs recall his original Strat, there were innovations as well, including noiseless SC's, improved tremolo systems, or those wild-looking split-coil pickups on the Comanche. He could have just spent the rest of his life churning out "Strats", under whatever name, and people would have gladly bought them, but he kept tweaking, and trying new things.

If the Guitar world is dying, it's because we're not doing enough to keep it fresh and vital. The Music my parents listened to in the 30's and 40's was overshadowed, and eventually overcome, by the advent of Rock'N'Roll. By 1965, you couldn't really find any young people listening to Benny Goodman, or Duke Ellington, we were all into The Beatles, The Stones, or The Animals. Right now, in 2018, it's no surprise that we're wondering if "Rock Is Dead"? The real surprise is that anyone is still listening, after nearly 70 years?


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: desertbluesman] #2940963 08/02/18 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
Guitar had it's day several times in my lifetime, the twangsters of the 50's the rocksters of the 60's, the punkers of the late 70's, the hair bands of the 80's. Then the guitar faded away a bit but sure enough it will reappear someday somehow in a new incarnation of innovation.....


Did you sleep through the 90s? That's when it made a big comeback after all of the excessive production, synths, sequencing, etc of the 80s. There was a backlash and we went the other way with the grunge/garage bands that were all guitar, no keys. Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots, Foo Fighters, Tool, etc.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2940964 08/02/18 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
All true I admit. I'm open to change but where's the innovation? Love of covers and I see many tribute bands. Sure, we have new artists cutting records playing songs that have a good rock sound. Just not really new. IMHO

One can look to music outside one's culture or to music from other eras but at a certain point one has heard abt every way of forming a musical composition there may be.
We have examples already posted abt innovative playing methods & the are more examples available to be cited.

I don't think that's the problem here, though.
I think it's a misperception of what constitutes innovation.
Most of the players in gtr history weren't particularly innovative & I'll double down on that for the 20th C when most of us developed our heroes.
They seemed innovative to us when young because it was new to us not b/c it was new.

Everyone finds their own sense of newness in the their experience.
Everyday we wake up.
Is it a new day w/fresh possibilities?
I think so every day when I drag my old, tired butt out to do what I must do & what I want to do.
Some ppl may just not want to see it that way.
I'll be honest---this is starting to seem like an attitudinal problem rather than a real one.

Relevant lyric "EVERY DAY'S A NEW DAY"


Relevant lyric "HOPE I DIE 'FORE I GET OLD"




d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2941109 08/03/18 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
... but where is the Jimi, Stevie Ray, Django, or whomever that's creating the excitement?


Neither of us have been "discovered" yet. rimshot

thu


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: BiC] #2941125 08/03/18 11:53 AM
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Following up my post jut above, I'd suggest that most of the innovations we might be considering came as much (maybe more) from tech developments as from what players actually did.
Les Paul, Hendrix & others like Beck...they played well & had individual styles but so much ofwhat they achieved wasfrom new tools they had.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2941131 08/03/18 12:12 PM
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My vote goes to talent d...They didn't just play well, they were/are stars for a reason. Les Paul also helped invent some of that new technology. It goes back to Django being able to mic his guitar and bringing the sound to larger audiences. You have to admit these guitar heroes had something very special well beyond the equipment advances. I'm referring to all of them like Chet Atkins, Jerry Reed, Tommy Emmanuel, Merle Travis, SRV, Eric Clapton, BB King, Les Paul, Jimi, Beck, Django, many classical masters just using a guitar or [insert name]. I get where you are coming from d, but talent negates any and all equipment advances IMHO. cool

Last edited by Larryz; 08/03/18 12:12 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2941190 08/03/18 05:24 PM
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I don't know if guitar is passe' now or not. If it is, it has gone out of fashion before, and come back, several times. If I understand the way it works correctly, whatever music is popular tends to drive the musical instrument market.
In the 40's, when radio was king, country music became a force to be reckoned with. In the 50's, rockabilly came out of country, and the first rock super star, Elvis Presley, was broadcast into every living room in America on TV, albeit from the waist up only. But enough of the guitar hanging around his neck was visible to inspire a generation of music industry suits that there was a gold mine waiting to be exploited.

There's gold in them thar hillbillies!

And, music industry types, being non-creative Phillistines, kept on flogging the horse into the 60's, and prepared the way for The Beatles, who by way of the Ed Sullivan show, fired the guitar into the public consciousness like a howitzer shell. And American Bandstand drove it in even further. Next thing you know, every TV show that can shoehorn a rock band into their 30-60 minute slot of airtime does so, and it's a guaranteed ratings boost. By this time FM radio became a force for marketers to push music into the public arena, with improved sound quality. Meanwhile, TV is still driving popular culture all the way into and through the 70's and 80's.

Guitar lost some popularity with the advent of disco, but came back really strong with MTV. That's where SRV and the hair metal guys got their audience. But, that went away with the change of MTV to whatever it has become.

Nowadays, the media is so fragmented that it's hard to generate a large audience. Whereas in the 40's-80's and into the 90's, audiences had many fewer choices to make as to where their time and money would be spent, first cable, then the internet, now streaming TV, and whatever the next innovation in programming distribution to come down the pike will fragment the audience even further. he marketing suits have divided the audience by aiming formats at separate demographic groups, They do that in order to sell more ads to folks looking to reach those individual demographics, and thereby maximize the effect of their advertising dollar.

Right now, there probably isn't a lot of guitar-driven music on the top 40, or whatever they call it now. Probably not a lot of guitar players on TV in prime time, since the variety show went the way of the high-button shoe. So, even if kids of all ages were actually watching these days, they wouldn't be seeing guitar players much, and the monkey-see-monkey-do effect, which is what drove the guitar boom in the first place, can't kick in.

So, barring a new thing that reunites the audience into the mass it once was, I have grave doubts we'll see a boom in anything, possibly ever again.

Sorry to get all long-winded on y'all. Boy get some folks started...


Always remember that you�re unique. Just like everyone else.



Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2941194 08/03/18 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
My vote goes to talent d...They didn't just play well, they were/are stars for a reason. Les Paul also helped invent some of that new technology.

That was my point, eh ?
Les Paul was a great player but what was innovative abt his playing was in actuality his inventiveness & use of mutli-tracking + vari-speed overdubbing.
His playing was, in fact, 2ndary [yes, now I'm blending words & numbers :D] .
Same deal w/ Hendrix.
He was a great player & probably the best of his era at combining all the styles of pop music as well as being a tremendously creative composer...but what put him above all the concurrent talent like Beck & Page was his grasp & use of new tech (thanks, Mr Mayer !).
Originally Posted By: Larryz
It goes back to Django being able to mic his guitar and bringing the sound to larger audiences. You have to admit these guitar heroes had something very special well beyond the equipment advances. I'm referring to all of them like Chet Atkins, Jerry Reed, Tommy Emmanuel, Merle Travis, SRV, Eric Clapton, BB King, Les Paul, Jimi, Beck, Django, many classical masters just using a guitar or [insert name]. I get where you are coming from d, but talent negates any and all equipment advances IMHO. cool

Those guys are all great players, too, but other than Les & Hendrix not really innovators, except in the case of Beck's incredible mix of pitchbending methods.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2941196 08/03/18 05:44 PM
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Here's why the gtr will always be one of the main instruments in pop music.
Other than small portable synths (or the uke) it's the most portable, inexpensive & easy to get started on instrument.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2941209 08/03/18 06:52 PM
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Here's a question that this thread invites.
Great Van Fleet--good, bad, what ?
Hardly innovative but them cats CAN PLAY v well & the singer has skills, too.
Also much more than a LedZ clone. They pull from all recent rock (even U2 & Adele !).
Big push behind 'em (check their website, they have international representation).
Is this indicative of a new groundswell of gtr kids ?

Catch the rhythm track here




Every days a new day


SO ?
snax


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3 weeks from today at the Republik in Honolulu, I can't wait. I ordered a t shirt to wear to the concert, it cost the same as the tickets. Oh well!


Jenny S.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2941215 08/03/18 07:29 PM
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Keep us posted as we will be wanting to hear your review Surfergirl! Have fun! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2941239 08/03/18 10:32 PM
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They postponed their Hawaiian shows till next year. Not sure why. They also postponed or canceled their shows in Japan. I don't know if it is about money, the Republik only holds about 1000 people and tickets were $35. Maybe they want to schedule larger venue can't blame them. I was kind of surprised that they were playing the Republik. I'm disappointed, but if they come next year ok. I'd rather see them at a better venue.

Ok, apparently their drummer has bad hands and can't play. They have postponed all of their August shows.

Last edited by surfergirl; 08/04/18 01:09 AM.

Jenny S.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2941276 08/04/18 08:21 AM
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shocked
I guess that means you paid $35 for a T-SHIRT? wink

Well, I guess it does have some special meaning for ya,, but will eventually become the most expensive dusting rag you'll own wink (my buddy's $20 Aerosmith T from a '77 show now is). And it reminded me of something my daughter once did that I'm still proud of her for....

Back about the mid '90's, she was at a bar with some of her friends and some guy(creep she thought) kept trying to hit on her. When talking with him, she kept calling him "Tommy". He finally asked her why because, "My name is NICK, so why do you keep calling me "Tommy"?" and she replied, "Well, your name is blazoned all over the front of your T-SHIRT!"

And the guy chuckled and told her, "No, that's for TOMMY HILFIGER, the fashion designer?" And my daughter(whom by now you figured knew that all along) said, "COOL! You know a fashion designer well enough to BORROW his CLOTHES?"

By this time, she said the guy was getting pretty frustrated and shot back with, "Get REAL bitch. You know what it's all about. These shirts are for the general public. I paid $40 for this shirt!" So, unable to resist, my girl then replied, "You mean you paid $40 for a shirt with SOMEBODY ELSE'S name on it? What ARE you? Some kind of MORON?" then she laughed and creepy finally moved away. grin
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2941286 08/04/18 10:20 AM
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Very sorry to hear your show got cancelled Surfergirl! I hope they do come back next year and you get to have a great time, enjoy a great show and wear that T-shirt! I had a Bob Seger concert get cancelled on me a couple of years ago and it was very disappointing. He's still around and maybe I'll get to see him yet! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2941293 08/04/18 11:15 AM
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That's weird...I do not doubt SG knows whence she speaks but just now, tryna chk into this, there's no mention of GVF cancellations on their website, or on Google that I can find. idk

Any rate & anyway, they do suggest to me that worries abt the decline of gtr in the eye's 'n' ears of the young campers are misapprehended.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2941313 08/04/18 02:34 PM
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www.mauiarts.org. Click on the the show date and you will find all the info on the postponements.


Jenny S.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2941315 08/04/18 02:54 PM
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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2941320 08/04/18 04:24 PM
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Yeah, Thundercat!


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2941322 08/04/18 04:28 PM
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My take on Great Van Fleet: they have potential. They’re not bad, not great.

Unlike some, I don’t have a problem with the lead singer having a RP-esque voice. He didn’t request that voice at birth, after all.

But I DO think aping RP’s visual style & stage act will wear thin. He needs to develop his own identity.

They’re young, yet, though.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2941341 08/04/18 05:49 PM
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Thundercat dudes sounds cool to me! What kind of guitar is he playing? I count at least 7 or more strings and only 6 tuning machines? thu

Last edited by Larryz; 08/05/18 11:55 AM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2941407 08/05/18 08:11 AM
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And DANNY......

It's GRETA, ain't it? wink

For now anyway, it seems the "guitar world" isn't dead, just isn't (at this time) as prominent as it used to be. And as we've mostly agreed on that music styles and "trends" are cyclical, It'll probably sooner or later come back around.
Whitefang

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Originally Posted By: surfergirl
www.mauiarts.org. Click on the the show date and you will find all the info on the postponements.

like
But 2 bad !

& TCat is tooooo bad, toooo !


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2941461 08/05/18 05:34 PM
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Quote:
And DANNY.....It's GRETA, ain't it?[quote]
Maybe it's both: Great Greta V F...

[quote]...it seems the "guitar world" isn't dead, just isn't (at this time) as prominent as it used to be. And as we've mostly agreed on that music styles and "trends" are cyclical, It'll probably sooner or later come back around.

In today's world it all depends on where we cast our attention.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2941464 08/05/18 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
And DANNY......

It's GRETA, ain't it? wink


Grrr...DAMN YOU AUTOCORRECT!!!


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2941494 08/05/18 10:09 PM
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Guitar is alive and well, Just check out new bands, if you feel there is nothing new its all on you. I was stagnant for a couple of years, then bam bought a new cd every other month of music being made today(bought cds made this year) and found out it was I who was dying. Buy some music or use amazon or stream stuff and try out new bands, guys, girls and listen.

Lok


1997 PRS CE24, 1981 Greco MSV 850, 1991 Greco V 900, 2 2006 Dean Inferno Flying Vs, 1987 Gibson Flying V, 2000s Jackson Dinky/Soloist, 1992 Gibson Les Paul Studio, 2003 American Fender Strat,
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Lokair] #2941511 08/06/18 12:49 AM
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The music being pushed by the corporates in North Am isn`t about guitars-actually it`s not about instruments. Consequently it`s not about bands either.
Part of my schedule these days involves covers of hit songs. I have to keep up with what`s trending. That can be truly painful but, every now and then something interesting pops up.
Nice Mark Knopffler vibe going with this one:


After a long time of being unimpressed with U.K. music, a band who had me on their mailing list and I paid no attention until recently, is Pale Waves.


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

Skipsounds on Soundclick:
www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2941523 08/06/18 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
Yeah, Thundercat!


cool

Originally Posted By: Larryz
Thundercat dudes sounds cool to me! What kind of guitar is he playing? I count at least 7 or more strings and only 6 tuning machines? thu


Ibanez Thundercat Six String Bass.

Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
My take on Great Van Fleet: they have potential. They’re not bad, not great.

Unlike some, I don’t have a problem with the lead singer having a RP-esque voice. He didn’t request that voice at birth, after all.

But I DO think aping RP’s visual style & stage act will wear thin. He needs to develop his own identity.

They’re young, yet, though.


Much agreed.


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2941535 08/06/18 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
The music being pushed by the corporates in North Am isn`t about guitars-actually it`s not about instruments. Consequently it`s not about bands either.


I see/hear a lot of what you probably mean, Skip.

A lot of "artists" singing "ready-made" multi-shared melodies to some "ready-made" computer file backing track, and too, probably used by many other "artists" groomed to look and sound like what some demographic study indicates is what's desired by "the public" these days.

We used to celebrate the unique in music, but lately it seems that "unique" is considered the same as those who don't wear the clothes or hair styles everyone ELSE does. ( shocked AIEEEE! ) which is to be avoided like GLUTEN! (AIIEEEEE!) wink
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2941547 08/06/18 10:48 AM
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Thanks Caevan, Now I get why that neck was so wide and it looked like a 7! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2941583 08/06/18 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
Thanks Caevan, Now I get why that neck was so wide and it looked like a 7! cool


That's what I'm talking about, somebody with a new Instrument and a new approach, even if his style looks back to Funk and Soul, that is light years beyond.


"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2941591 08/06/18 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
My take on Great Van Fleet: they have potential. They’re not bad, not great.

Unlike some, I don’t have a problem with the lead singer having a RP-esque voice. He didn’t request that voice at birth, after all.

But I DO think aping RP’s visual style & stage act will wear thin. He needs to develop his own identity.

They’re young, yet, though.


C'mon, Danny... look how long a successful career Kingdom Come has had... wink



It was like 6 months later everyone just said "hey, those guys are just Led Zeppelin rip-offs..."

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2941593 08/06/18 02:19 PM
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I like Heart for the most part (save the ridiculous 80s song factory stuff), and they are a heavily Led Zep-influenced band, but they managed to always find their own thing and own personality so it has never even occurred to some people that there's any similarity... in their club days, they were a Led Zeppelin cover band.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2941597 08/06/18 02:44 PM
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New bands/directions/guitar playing?

Paging St. Vincent...

But generally, here is the cultural problem we're stuck in: we are very technologically advanced and constantly advancing... and when that happens, people want to bury and ignore technology. We should be playing synth guitars and creating new, unnatural sounds... but people don't want technology shoved in their face that way, because they're saturated with technology in their everyday lives and a lot of people have some tension and aggravation with it. I can remember as a kid in the 70s and 80s everyone expected the future to be... futuristic, in terms of fashion, furniture, music, etc. It generally turned in the other direction... we have gadgets, but most people live in a house full of faux rustic throwback furniture... Tuscan Gothic or something... around here everything is French Provincial architecture as far as houses...

The more advanced we get, the more will want things from the past, and music from the past. Hip Hop is built on vintage samples and 40 year old drum machine technology. Modern country is a mix up of 80s hip hop and arena rock with pedal steel and acoustic guitars in the mix. Dance music, even the far-out techno glitchy stuff friends of mine expose me to, has sounded the same to me since the early 90s at the latest...

There becomes a point, though, where "originality for originality's sake" is not a musical concern... and it makes music unenjoyable... and that's what Popular Music/Rock and Roll is supposed to be: enjoyable... it was a working-class escapism device that took over mainstream culture. And it still is on top... as long as it's something from the 80s.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2941702 08/07/18 07:23 AM
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Watching an interesting series on youtube called `cracking the code`, which takes instructional and other videos from widely admired guitarists, and breaks down their technique frame by frame, pick stroke by pick stroke.
It`s certainly interesting and can be helpful if you`re trying to master a certain technique or sound. But in my opinion it`s similar to the technology issue. Yes, sooner or later there will be a breakthrough and it will make new things possible on the instrument. But even now, you could spend a year just reading instruction manuals for all the new gear. You could spend another year studying picking techniques, feedback tricks, amp settings, miking applications-and never actually make any music. Don`t even get started on theory. Sooner or later it should be about expressing what`s in your soul. To get caught up in all the gadgets and techniques, and never get to that point-kind of a waste, no? unless you want to be a teacher. Another place to not get started on...


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

Skipsounds on Soundclick:
www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2941703 08/07/18 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: p90jr
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
My take on Great Van Fleet: they have potential. They’re not bad, not great.

Unlike some, I don’t have a problem with the lead singer having a RP-esque voice. He didn’t request that voice at birth, after all.

But I DO think aping RP’s visual style & stage act will wear thin. He needs to develop his own identity.

They’re young, yet, though.


C'mon, Danny... look how long a successful career Kingdom Come has had... wink



It was like 6 months later everyone just said "hey, those guys are just Led Zeppelin rip-offs..."

grin
I do own a few of their albums.

AND Fastway.

And Bonham.

And Coverdale/Page

Etc.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2941705 08/07/18 08:03 AM
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smirk
Personally.... I think we're LONG overdue for a 1910 Fruitgum Co. tribute band! sick laugh
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2941742 08/07/18 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
smirk
Personally.... I think we're LONG overdue for a 1910 Fruitgum Co. tribute band! sick laugh
Whitefang


You had to say it. Now that notion can never be unconceived. I will hold you personally responsible if/when this comes to fruition.


Scott Fraser
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2941777 08/07/18 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
AND Fastway.

And Bonham.

And... Page


I like all of them!

Seen all three.

Jason Bonham, twice- the first time, with Page.

Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: whitefang
smirk
Personally.... I think we're LONG overdue for a 1910 Fruitgum Co. tribute band! sick laugh
Whitefang


You had to say it. Now that notion can never be unconceived. I will hold you personally responsible if/when this comes to fruition.


Or gummation.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2941787 08/07/18 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
smirk
Personally.... I think we're LONG overdue for a 1910 Fruitgum Co. tribute band! sick laugh
Whitefang


Perhaps they can tour with a Focus-inspired band?


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2941789 08/07/18 03:17 PM
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Now Country-Jazz fusion is an interesting concept


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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
Originally Posted By: p90jr
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
My take on Great Van Fleet: they have potential. They’re not bad, not great.

Unlike some, I don’t have a problem with the lead singer having a RP-esque voice. He didn’t request that voice at birth, after all.

But I DO think aping RP’s visual style & stage act will wear thin. He needs to develop his own identity.

They’re young, yet, though.


C'mon, Danny... look how long a successful career Kingdom Come has had... wink



It was like 6 months later everyone just said "hey, those guys are just Led Zeppelin rip-offs..."

grin
I do own a few of their albums.

AND Fastway.

And Bonham.

And Coverdale/Page

Etc.


I don't think any of the other 3 are as directly derivative as Kingdom Come, who I guess did add a hair metal sheen to their Led Zep-ness... Jimmy Page CAN emulate Led Zep if he wants to, certainly... I can't remember anything about Coverdale Page, but The Firm had an interesting sound in spots with some different things coming in...

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Country-jazz fusion is kinda what lies behind Lyle Lovett’s body of work, IMHO.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2941840 08/07/18 07:10 PM
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This is what I call Hillbilly jazz (aka Western Swing) and could be considered country-jazz fusion.



The Guitar World still lives!

cool

Last edited by Larryz; 08/07/18 07:11 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2941841 08/07/18 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
The music being pushed by the corporates in North Am isn`t about guitars-actually it`s not about instruments. Consequently it`s not about bands either.
Part of my schedule these days involves covers of hit songs. I have to keep up with what`s trending. That can be truly painful but, every now and then something interesting pops up.

That's the way it's always been though, eh ?
& music itself, even barring commercialism (which started back around the time of Bach, IIRC, & definitely in play by the time thata kid MozArt PianoBanana hit the scene) has never been abt particular instruments, although we may sometimes think so.

& country-jazz ? idk
That's as new as Bob Wills or cats like these !


Some define bluegrass as country-jazz.



d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2941846 08/07/18 07:29 PM
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Have you checked out Neo-Soul guitar playing? That was the latest thing for me. Such a beautiful sound. Here's a lesson on it;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xwqi_TIDbI


Long live the shadow. And let us love it for all its hidden, buried treasure and worth.
Also, get a tan. Orange people will rule the Earth someday.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: MisterLutherMan] #2941847 08/07/18 07:42 PM
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Hey, MrLMan, welcome to town !
wave
That's a cool vid you posted but, as I suggested before, I think the things that represent new stuff on gtr have more to do w/technology than just playing techniques or musical qualities.
After serial composition, bebop, etc, I think the potential for anything new on a purely musical level has been achieved.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: MisterLutherMan] #2941848 08/07/18 07:45 PM
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WELCOME ABOARD MISTERLUTHERMAN! Cool lesson! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2941850 08/07/18 07:47 PM
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+1 d, I believe there are a ton of jazz improvisation techniques in blue grass music and in western swing... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2941852 08/07/18 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Thanks Caevan, Now I get why that neck was so wide and it looked like a 7! cool


That's what I'm talking about, somebody with a new Instrument and a new approach, even if his style looks back to Funk and Soul, that is light years beyond.


+1 Winston. Finding new ways of presenting old styles can be golden... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2941869 08/07/18 10:08 PM
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Everything we do is covers. We think most of the time when you are playing parties or bars people want to hear the music that they know. Unless you are a touring artist with a big contract if you want to work, in an already difficult climate, you have put your ego aside and give people what they want.
There are some songs I would like Michael, our bass player who is the only one with any real musical knowledge, to rearrange and put a little bit of us in the song to changed it up a little. I like Patsy Cline and would like to rearrange some of her songs, Back In Babies Arms and She's Got You, into blues rock, but her voice is so unique I think I would be afraid to try it.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2941903 08/08/18 01:28 AM
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My favorite Patsy Cline tune is Walking After Midnight. It already has a little blues rock jazzy vibe to it. But copy any tune you choose and make it your own. I jazz up some old country tunes but I try to keep a lot of the original vibe in my arrangements to please the audience too...




cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2941927 08/08/18 08:33 AM
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Y'know SG, you can try anything you like, and sometimes it works and sometimes not.

Back when I was in the ever changing "revolving door" bands I was in 'bout 50 years ago ( shocked ) we'd do stuff like that for fun. And too, some of it was OK enough to keep in rotation and on our playlist. Like one example that comes to mind...

A slowed down "blues" treatment of Herman's Hermits "Henry The Eighth" . crazy cool

BTW: I like most all of Patsy's tunes, and although( like with everyone else it seems) "Crazy" is high on my list, my favorite is her version of Don Gibson's "Sweet Dreams".

Like Sissy Spacek as Loretta Lynn in "Coalminer's Daughter" said;

"Don't NOBODY sing like Patsy Cline!" wink
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2941938 08/08/18 10:09 AM
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To Surfergirl - Anyone who can sing & play Country, can really sing & play! My respect!

Back on topic, more or less.

In response to some comments by p90jr and Skipclone, a few stray thoughts from your resident Experimentalist.

I don't think cutting-edge tech is for everyone, anymore than I think cutting-edge Music is for everyone; more often, the opposite is true. As Surfergirl points out, her band plays mostly covers, and that keeps people dancing. And, like p90jr says, Rock was originally escapist Dance Music; there is no deep, subversive message in tunes like Sweet Little 16, Rock Around The Clock, or even Louie, Louie, where you could still dance to it, even if you had no idea what they were singing about!

Embracing the 'new' purely for its own sake isn't always a step forward. I can't really see Don Giovanni being improved by Auto-Tune, for example, anymore than I'd want to hear Buddy Guy playing a Ring Mod; what would be the point?

By the same token, I don't feel like everyone should run out and grab the nearest new toy, or new gimmick, not unless whatever it is calls to you in some way. Yes, the learning curve can be steep, and bringing the most out of new tech takes time, effort and commitment . . . much like learning to play the Guitar. I just wish people, in this case other players, were more open to some of the possibilities new gear, and new tech, represent.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2941988 08/08/18 01:57 PM
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I can picture Les Paul reading this thread and laughing his a** off. Saying heck, if I could change the guitar world with a slab of swamp Ash, and Leo could take his knowledge of electronics and do what he did, what's wrong with you folks?

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2942004 08/08/18 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
I can picture Les Paul reading this thread and laughing his a** off. Saying heck, if I could change the guitar world with a slab of swamp Ash, and Leo could take his knowledge of electronics and do what he did, what's wrong with you folks?


Exactly!!! At one point, both Les' and Leo's designs were considered radical innovations; now they're institutions.

FWIW, the ARP Avatar, which marks the beginning of Guitar Synth systems, came out in 1977, 41 years ago. True, it was a spectacular failure, but it still marks a turning point. Roland's GR-50, which set the standard for the 13-pin Hex Pickup systems we're still using, came out in 1988, 30 years ago. Mass-produced 7-string Guitars and other ERG's have been around since the 90's, Electric Baritones & 6-string Basses have been around since the days of Surf Guitar: we're not talking bleeding-edge tech here, some of this stuff has been around longer than things we see in use everyday, like laptop computers with recording software, Digital Delays, Amp Modelers or clip-on Tuners.

You (the collective 'you') don't have to play Metal on a 7- or 8-string Guitar, and you don't have to make unusual, unnatural sounds on a Guitar Synth, but if you never even try them you'll never find a place for them in your Music. If you already know that your Music has no place for them, I can respect that -see back to my remarks on Don Giovanni and Buddy Guy - but if you're seriously wondering where new sounds or new Music is going to come from, why not start with yourself?


"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2942010 08/08/18 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Embracing the 'new' purely for its own sake isn't always a step forward. I can't really see Don Giovanni being improved by Auto-Tune, for example, anymore than I'd want to hear Buddy Guy playing a Ring Mod; what would be the point?


I have often made a similar point regarding retelling tales in other media, such as when a book gets adapted for a film.

...but back to Don Giovanni...

I dislike Autotune the way many people (over)use it these days, but I can easily imagine a skilled electronic musician (or a group of them) redoing the entire opera in an updated form that included the use (but not abuse) of Autotune. I can think of a few who, solo or in a collective, could surprise us all with such a reinterpretation if they were so moved.

(Some, like Robert Fripp, Matt Bellamy and Moby even play guitar...)

I don’t think it will happen, though. Most are more interested in following their own guide stars, not looking back.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2942044 08/08/18 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
To Surfergirl - Anyone who can sing & play Country, can really sing & play! My respect!

Shucks, back when dinosaurs ruled the Earth, you couldn't be a country singer if you couldn't swat out rhythm chords on an acoustic while singing. And, you had to wear a cowboy hat too!


Always remember that you�re unique. Just like everyone else.



Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: picker] #2942108 08/09/18 08:23 AM
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And I too, would say "New" don't always work for everybody. Take Hendrix for example...

Sure, what he did at that time WAS "new" in approach, but he was the only one successfully doing it. Anyone else who tried were rejected by listeners for being mere "copycats" . Once you have a "unique" newcomer, it's best to leave them be alone in that status. Others will never really care about, "The new JIMI", or "the new ERIC", due to the idea that since we already have THEM, then why do we NEED the "new" ones? wink

I liked the bit about dancing up there, as it's been a joking point musically for years, as in supporting the idea that commercially played and distributed music shouldn't be rejected because it's hard to dance to.( "it's got a GOOD BEAT, Dick, and it's easy to dance to, so I'll give it an 85!" ) But still, in spite of all that(And since I dance like ST. VITUS, I've always used that argument too) people STILL went to bars and clubs and danced to whatever they could. So I suppose it depended on what kind of audience you wished to draw, or the kind of VENUES opened to you otherwise in deciding the music you wished to play.
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: MisterLutherMan] #2942183 08/09/18 03:14 PM
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Welcome MisterLutherMan
Nice lesson, clear and easy to follow.
That seems like a good nexus to mention something I have thought for a while but, even for myself is hard to say. I am 100% sure that guitar is here to stay for the foreseeable future. But the real endangered species is guitar solos. I still love great solos. But that was not the foundation of guitar and, unless some version of heavily synthesized ambient music takes off, I don`t see how it`s going to continue-even discounting flavor of the month pop trends. As melodically expressive as the guitar is, the harmonic possibilities are simply more diverse-actually that`s not only for guitar.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2942185 08/09/18 03:31 PM
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RE Whitefang`s dance comment-there was a rock club in Tokyo called Current, I was invited by a friend. Well imagine my shock-it was a DANCE club, with hard rock music. The bartender was reportedly a friend of Dave Mustaine. At first I was like, wtf-what have you gotten me into. I was an equally alien presence among the sea of black T-shirts. I think my air guitar skills won them over-I didn`t bother mentioning that I really played. After a few visits I was sold. A year or so later they closed, truly a loss.


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2942220 08/09/18 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
I can picture Les Paul reading this thread and laughing his a** off. Saying heck, if I could change the guitar world with a slab of swamp Ash, and Leo could take his knowledge of electronics and do what he did, what's wrong with you folks?


And might I point out that in both cases their products were used "incorrectly" as far as what they intended people to do with them.

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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
RE Whitefang`s dance comment-there was a rock club in Tokyo called Current, I was invited by a friend. Well imagine my shock-it was a DANCE club, with hard rock music. The bartender was reportedly a friend of Dave Mustaine. At first I was like, wtf-what have you gotten me into. I was an equally alien presence among the sea of black T-shirts. I think my air guitar skills won them over-I didn`t bother mentioning that I really played. After a few visits I was sold. A year or so later they closed, truly a loss.


There are/were other clubs like that around the world. I found one in San Antonio that had a dedicated dance floor positioned so that it doubled as an elevated viewing platform for the club’s band stage.. Every once in a while, if you’d go there on a non-show night, you could see people doing two steps and line dances to the likes of Black Sabbath or LA Guns.


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@ p90jr. :

I guess ALL "long time" guitar makers could also make that "used incorrectly" line, as most never saw the comings of guys like PETE TOWNSHEND or JIMI and others using the onstage destruction of their instruments as "entertainment". wink I doubt THAT was intended either.
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Something I've noticed over the years when attending a local place featuring live music, if the band played something original and unique, the audience would begin to ask for more covers. I suppose the majority of the listening world prefers to hear music they know.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2942316 08/10/18 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
@ p90jr. :

I guess ALL "long time" guitar makers could also make that "used incorrectly" line, as most never saw the comings of guys like PETE TOWNSHEND or JIMI and others using the onstage destruction of their instruments as "entertainment". wink I doubt THAT was intended either.
Whitefang


I never cared for the on stage destruction of guitars, even when done by Stevie, Jimi and others. I would think that they would have more respect for the instrument that brought them fame (i.e. the Stratocaster). Especially when thinking about Leo's Birthday today! cool


Take care, Larryz
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
I never cared for the on stage destruction of guitars, even when done by Stevie, Jimi and others. I would think that they would have more respect for the instrument that brought them fame (i.e. the Stratocaster). Especially when thinking about Leo's Birthday today! cool


I think it was a very short period. I saw The Who in 67 or 68 at the Hollywood Bowl & there was no trashing on that gig.


Scott Fraser
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Something I've noticed over the years when attending a local place featuring live music, if the band played something original and unique, the audience would begin to ask for more covers. I suppose the majority of the listening world prefers to hear music they know.


Yes, this is the brutal truth of it.

And here's how things changed, overall (excuse a bottled up rant):

Before the early 90s, we still did what I call "The Beatles approach." A headlining gig at a local bar was usually 2 or 3 hours, 2 or 3 sets, and you played covers - your own take on classic songs or songs that fit your sound - in with originals. If you only had 5 good original songs, you played them and a bunch of other great songs, and as you got better at writing songs and as the audience heard them more and more and wanted to hear them, you shifted to emphasizing the original material in the places that were familiar with you. A band I knew back then, Better Than Ezra, played to thousands here in town and then repeated that throughout the region, to the point where self-released tapes and CDs sold in the upper tens of thousands, which of course made a major record label want to get in on that...

Post-Nirvana, things kind of changed... instead of a show at a local club being an opening set from one band and 2 or 3 from a headliner as described above, it became 3 or 4 bands playing 40-minute sets of all-originals, right from the start, whether they learned to write good songs or not... whether the crowd knew or responded to them or not... and by the sheer governing rule of quantity versus quality I watched interest in live music among regular club goers decline... as a promoter/talent-buyer, people would ask "what time will the local band be finished?" so they could avoid sitting through them... then they started to complain that more and more of the national touring acts coming through weren't good... until it became a real struggle to get anybody to shows, period, because they began to associate rock shows with boredom instead of "fun" and they'd rather go to the local watering hole with a DJ or jukebox... so I started putting bands in those places, and it worked until the rule of quantity versus quality again screwed it up and people would leave when they alked up and saw a band's gear in the corner.

How has this affected me?

It's reinforced what I came into playing music believing: the act is there to entertain and connect with the audience, the audience is not there to validate and stroke the act's ego. This was the point of "punk rock," I thought... now people in that world are the worst offenders.

It's made me aware of "appearance" and "presentation." A lot of touring bands show up looking like panhandlers... not having showered in a week, in filthy, wrinkled clothes, looking haggard and hungover as hell and with gear held together by duct tape. "Hey, we're on the road, man... it's tough..." This is a turn off to someone being asked to hand over $10-15 to see them. I was raised by Jazz musicians... "dress like you belong onstage" was always in the back of my mind, anyway, but yeah, dress like you belong onstage. A friend of mine who owns a venue here has a sign in the dressing room saying "SHOWS WILL BE CANCELLED IF ANYBODY IN A BAND TAKES THE STAGE IN SHORTS. THE FOLLOWING DRUMMERS ARE EXCLUDED FROM THIS RULE: JOHN BONHAM. APPLIES TO ALL OTHERS." I once played an acoustic cover gig with that same guy at a crappy Daiquiri bar... an older couple was walking out as I walked in with a guitar case... they stopped and said "Are you playing here, tonight?" I said "yeah... have you seen me play someplace else or..." "No, but I can tell you're a real musician... you know how? You're dressed like it... you're wearing pants. Most of the guys who play here look like they just mowed the lawn and then rode the mower over here to play crappy songs..."

As a side note: non-musicians (who make up most of the audience, since musicians usually can't afford the cover charge) don't care about gear... and it's kind of a peeve of mine that gear is the visual focus of some many bands... spare guitars on stands in front of the band pointing towards the audience... hulking stacks of unnecessary speaker cabs... pedal boards the size of sofas, with the "pedal board operator" on his knees hunched over them 85% of the show (Radiohead and that guy in Battles get a pass for making interesting sounds when they do this, as opposed to nothing you can actually hear). I played bass for a band of guys older than me when I was 19, and the singer would bring this relatively thin black fabric and cover all of the amps when we played... he thought it looked cooler, I liked that it focused everything on the band members.

And "perform." I was watching a Canadian documentary series on youtube about Tribute bands (I play in one, now...) and there was an episode where Miles Copeland, former manager of the Police (brother of drummer Stewart Copeland) and former owner of IRS Records (home of R.E.M., The Go Go's, and lots of others) decided to assemble the best, most realistic Police tribute band, which he would manage and book... there was already a band his brother had actually sat in with and regarded as the best, and L.A. band called Fall Out, and the bassist/singer and guitarist did easily win the gig, but thought the drummer was technically perfect... "my brother plays drums like a madman... that was a key part of The Police live! He's a maniac..." Fall Out's drummer and the others who auditioned "had no charisma..." A guy from Germany showed up and played the part and got the gig.

Not every band is The Police or that frenetic, not every great musician is an extrovert... but I do believe what Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth once said: "People pay to watch people with more confidence than they have." Develop a game face. One of the local watering holes I mentioned earlier had an act come through on tour... they had great reviews, were on a hip record label and had airplay on college radio. It was one guy who sat on the floor (there was no stage in this bar) with a laptop and a synth and held a mic in one hand... after 3/4s of the first song the audience lost visual interest... they were "grooving" to the music but this was no different in execution from a DJ, so they weren't focused on him and were talking, but would applaud after every song and cheer... after 5 songs he threw a fit into the mic about how people should shut up and pay attention to him... this made the crowd boo... my buddy who owned the place walked over and told him to stop, he would pay him everything he was promised but it wasn't a good fit... I heard the guy say "You need a stage," to which my friend responded, "You need an act!"

I play in a tribute band (I've actually done tons of tribute shows over the years, but this is an ongoing thing)... a couple of weeks ago we hit big rooms in Houston and Dallas on a package with two other tribute bands. Musician friends of mine from both cities came out to see me... only one of them said something to the effect of "do you feel like a cheesy sell-out up there doing that?" My answer was "I feel like someone who just made 3 thousand people very happy with music." When I've been hired as a sideman for people with records I've "covered" what was there (and I witnessed people who refused to do that be shown the exit very swiftly)... when I work with songwriters I'm not playing music that I wrote and do what they ask (and I've seen people who fought that and insisted on their input being equal, who were swiftly shown the exit). This Kurt Cobain-inspired uncompromising "original" artiste thing is a problem... oh, and Nirvana's first single? A cover of "Love Buzz" by The Shocking Blue... because Kurt Cobain wasn't infected with Kurt Cobain-disease.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2942366 08/10/18 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Something I've noticed over the years when attending a local place featuring live music, if the band played something original and unique, the audience would begin to ask for more covers. I suppose the majority of the listening world prefers to hear music they know.


As Frank Zappa once said, "Most people don't know what they like, they like what they know."


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2942369 08/10/18 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: p90jr
I was raised by Jazz musicians... "dress like you belong onstage" was always in the back of my mind, anyway, but yeah, dress like you belong onstage. "No, but I can tell you're a real musician... you know how? You're dressed like it... you're wearing pants. Most of the guys who play here look like they just mowed the lawn and then rode the mower over here to play crappy songs..."


Excuse me for truncating your comments, but I rail about this constantly. One night, I got a remark very much like that. "You must be a Musician. You're the only one here who's dressed."

I've also seen gear heads who essentially ignore their audience, while hunched over a pile of boxes that no one can really see: it might be somewhat more interesting if there were a mirror overhead, so you could see what they were doing. I arrange all my sounds and settings before a show, so I don't have to waste time turning knobs, or trying to remember which patch is the next sound I need.

IMHO, dressing well, making sure that your gear is in order, and engaging your audience are all about the same thing: respect. You show respect for yourself and your audience by looking good and acknowledging them, you show respect for your craft by performing well, and maintaining your Instrument. Otherwise, just stay home and stop making the rest of us look bad.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2942373 08/10/18 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: DocPate
Something I've noticed over the years when attending a local place featuring live music, if the band played something original and unique, the audience would begin to ask for more covers. I suppose the majority of the listening world prefers to hear music they know.


As Frank Zappa once said, "Most people don't know what they like, they like what they know."


Well, let's think of music as a language... people who know the language can appreciate and be rewarded by something new...

People who don't know the language are lost... like if you watch a foreign language film without subtitles... how involved are you going to stay in watching it?

A lot of my favorite music is too out there for the majority of people... I don't expect them to like it and I don't expect to force it on them.

Also, historically, look at the voyage popular music took in the 60s and 70s and you can maybe include parts of the 80s... everybody, collectively, was along for the ride from "Johnny B Goode" and "Louie Louie" to "Sgt. Pepper" and "Pet Sounds" and on to "Dark Side of The Moon" and "Maggot Brain" to, what, "The Wall" or wherever you want to put the mark of the decline of musical civilization or whatever... your average, non-musician listener took that step by step and had their horizons broadened to liking and accepting more and more complicated music. The Beatles didn't start with "A Day in the Life." A question I think about is if they had continued touring would they have thought to go there, or would the practicality of making stuff that would please a crowd when replicated by 4 simply have kept them from experimenting (they were still opening their last tour with Chuck Berry covers).

I do believe that the cutting of music appreciation for grade school kids ("impractical waste of money") and music education programs overall has created a few generations now of people who don't have the groundwork to appreciate anything but the crudest, simplest melodies... and popular music has become 98% rhythm as a result... as in, records are 98% drum machine patterns with one-to-three note bass parts.

My favorite Zappa quote is
"Art is making something and then convincing someone else to buy it."

The most successful artists are usually the best salesmen and not the most gifted craftsmen.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2942374 08/10/18 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: p90jr
I was raised by Jazz musicians... "dress like you belong onstage" was always in the back of my mind, anyway, but yeah, dress like you belong onstage. "No, but I can tell you're a real musician... you know how? You're dressed like it... you're wearing pants. Most of the guys who play here look like they just mowed the lawn and then rode the mower over here to play crappy songs..."


Excuse me for truncating your comments, but I rail about this constantly. One night, I got a remark very much like that. "You must be a Musician. You're the only one here who's dressed."

I've also seen gear heads who essentially ignore their audience, while hunched over a pile of boxes that no one can really see: it might be somewhat more interesting if there were a mirror overhead, so you could see what they were doing. I arrange all my sounds and settings before a show, so I don't have to waste time turning knobs, or trying to remember which patch is the next sound I need.

IMHO, dressing well, making sure that your gear is in order, and engaging your audience are all about the same thing: respect. You show respect for yourself and your audience by looking good and acknowledging them, you show respect for your craft by performing well, and maintaining your Instrument. Otherwise, just stay home and stop making the rest of us look bad.


Yep. Thank you.

I know this stuff might not apply to casual patio gigs at a Mexican restaurant or the corner of a pool hall... but when people complain that those gigs are all they get, well...

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I do believe that the cutting of music appreciation for grade school kids ("impractical waste of money") and music education programs overall has created a few generations now of people who don't have the groundwork to appreciate anything but the crudest, simplest melodies... and popular music has become 98% rhythm as a result... as in, records are 98% drum machine patterns with one-to-three note bass parts.


A few months ago, I was at my barber’s- a very typical, NOLA neighborhood-style black shop (in a suburb of Dallas!)- and the discussion had turned to the funding of education and which programs were deemed valuable and which got cut. I pointed out that, besides music programs, HomeEc, shop and other non-college prep courses were all being axed. I then pointed out a lot of supply-side states like KS & OK had even started cutting back on mainstream classes and days per week...despite their own numbers showing that $1 invested in education has a ROI of @$1.83.
hitt

Then I asked a question: “By show of hands, how many people in this room learned “Cherry Blossoms” on a recorder at school?” Everyone over 30 raised their hands...and nobody under 30 did.

Last edited by Dannyalcatraz; 08/10/18 04:01 PM.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Scott Fraser] #2942387 08/10/18 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: Larryz
I never cared for the on stage destruction of guitars, even when done by Stevie, Jimi and others. I would think that they would have more respect for the instrument that brought them fame (i.e. the Stratocaster). Especially when thinking about Leo's Birthday today! cool


I think it was a very short period. I saw The Who in 67 or 68 at the Hollywood Bowl & there was no trashing on that gig.


I'm glad it was short lived for Jimi and the Who...I think Stevie carried it on a bit longer (from about '70 - '90), probably paying tribute to the Jimi vibe here and there live on stage...I think Punk Rock bands carried it on for awhile too... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2942493 08/11/18 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Something I've noticed over the years when attending a local place featuring live music, if the band played something original and unique, the audience would begin to ask for more covers. I suppose the majority of the listening world prefers to hear music they know.


re: See my comment on the subject of bands doing "covers" in the other place. wink

Real quickly here, I'll mention just about every band we know and love started out doing covers of popular tunes of the day. And that The Beatles and The Stones didn't start THEIR careers playing "Please, Please Me" and "Satisfaction" in Hamburg and London respectively, did they....? wink Oh, and LARRY....

Wasn't your beloved ELVIS' first recording a "cover" also? wink Hell, even his most popular "classic hit"( "Hound Dog") was a cover. wink
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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2942506 08/11/18 11:01 AM
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Yes, Elvis did many covers of black rhythm and blues tunes from the late 40's to include That's Alright (his 1st recording and rock and roll hit in 1954), Hound Dog, Good Rocking Tonight (his 2nd recording and rock and roll hit) and many others. I think his most popular hit was Heartbreak Hotel (which was his 1st recording at RCA after leaving Sun Records). cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2942622 08/12/18 07:47 AM
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Well, you the Presley freak, so I'll concede that point. But it seems to me that over the years, more people associated him more with HOUND DOG and JAILHOUSE ROCK as being his most popular tunes. In fact, it wasn't till much later that most of us came to learn someone ELSE did "Hound Dog" before he did. wink
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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2942676 08/12/18 02:59 PM
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Hound Dog and Jailhouse Rock were major hits back in the early days (Jailhouse Rock was also made famous in the movie world). +1 Many of the Black R&B tunes Elvis had major hits with were like Hound Dog, most people had never hear of them before. The original ain't exactly like the Elvis re-arrangement, but it's still very cool to go back and listen to. John Lennon was influenced by Heartbreak Hotel which was popular across the pond as well as here in the US. It became a million seller in the US topping all 3 Billboard genres earning Elvis his 1st gold record in 1956. cool

ps. Disclaimer: I'm a lover of his early work for the most part. Not really a fan of a lot of his later stuff.

Last edited by Larryz; 08/12/18 03:02 PM. Reason: ps.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2942690 08/12/18 04:58 PM
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I think Elvis' top seller was "Don't Be Cruel"/"Hound Dog" with Don't be Cruel getting the most airplay and jukebox hits. His second biggest record was "All Shook Up" both being written by Otis Blackwell and original Elvis recordings.


http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1140

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2942704 08/12/18 06:27 PM
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I think it was Heartbreak Hotel

https://www.graceland.com/elvis/biography/1954_1957.aspx

"January 27, 1956
"Heartbreak Hotel" b/w "I Was the One" is released on vinyl by RCA and sells over 300,000 copies in its first three weeks on the market. It is soon to go to #1 on Billboard’s pop singles chart for eight weeks and hits #1 on the country chart and #5 on the R&B chart. It becomes the first Elvis single to sell over one million copies, thus earning Elvis his very first gold record award." cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2942765 08/13/18 07:43 AM
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Well, I WAS mostly referring to tunes he was more closely associated with, generally speaking(and in the general public's eye/ear, no the fans). Any "greatest" or "best" as far as he's concerned is subjective to whichever FAN voices an opinion on. But not EVERY Presley "hit" relied on all the same vibe, just like not EVERY "hit" The BEATLES had contained "Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!" wink And oddly, concerning the Beatles, I've even heard some from MY generation voice that stereotype.
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2942799 08/13/18 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Is it just me or is the world of guitars dead? Nothing new or exciting! Sure, we talk about new stuff like pedals, modeling amps, and Gibson's woes, but where is the Jimi, Stevie Ray, Django, or whomever that's creating the excitement?


I think where Elvis and The Beatles fit into this thread, is they kept the Guitar World alive back in the 50's and 60's. They were the new and exciting 20 year olds. Elvis was not that much of a guitar player as the John George and Paul (Jimi, SRV, Django, etc.) were. But he sure looked good with one hanging around his neck and got a lot of mileage out of it with the girls. Both Elvis and the Beatles set the world on fire with their music (covers and originals) and set a pretty high bar if you wanted to be a star! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2943018 08/14/18 08:22 AM
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Sho' 'nuff....

And I remember in those Beatles Anthology tapes, mention of the DECCA label rejecting them because THEIR claim was....

"Guitar bands are OUT!" freak facepalm

I think whomever told them that wound up not working for Decca much longer afterwards.... wink

BTW: Elvis would have gotten(and did get) a lot of mileage with the girls with or WITHOUT the guitar hangin' on his neck! wink
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2943051 08/14/18 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Is it just me or is the world of guitars dead? Nothing new or exciting! Sure, we talk about new stuff like pedals, modeling amps, and Gibson's woes, but where is the Jimi, Stevie Ray, Django, or whomever that's creating the excitement?


I'm reaching all the way back to the beginning of this thread, to try, once again, to make my point -

If we're waiting for someone else to re-invent the mousetrap, might as well give up now.

You want to hear a new sound? Take up a new Instrument, try some new tech, set aside everything familiar, and just have fun again! Remember the first time you plugged in? How about your first effects pedal? Remember how exciting, and yes, how cool it was to hear that sound coming from your fingers! How long has it been since you felt that in your own Music? How long have you been playing pretty much the same material, or type of material, through the same familiar rig?

There's plenty of new Music, just waiting to enter the world, you just have to open the damned doors, and let it in . . .


"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2943121 08/14/18 02:41 PM
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@ Fang, Both the Beatles and Elvis had us young teeny boppers not only wanting to play guitar but copying their hair-do's in order to pick up those chicks. Elvis didn't have to worry about having a guitar around his neck with Scotty Moore doing all the guitar work. You would see Elvis on stage and in the movies faking playing those Scotty Moore licks on an unplugged acoustic while seeing Scotty in the background playing them LOL! cool

@ Winston, I too went back to the original OP to make my point just before you did. My worry was the lack of 20 year old super stars when reading the ages on Fangs birthday posts. I asked the same question Doc put out there: i.e. where are they? +1 there is some good new music and artists out there and we just have to search them out. I for one set the way back machine and get more enjoyment out of playing my guitar by [picking] out older classics going all the way back to the 30's LOL! cool

Last edited by Larryz; 08/14/18 02:42 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2943138 08/14/18 03:29 PM
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“Superstardom” outside of mainstream pop or maybe C&W is becoming increasingly difficult because of the explosion of subgenres in guitar-centric music and the tribalism that seems to go hand in hand with it.

The PLAYERS are there, but the AUDIENCES are balkanized.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2943163 08/14/18 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz


The PLAYERS are there, but the AUDIENCES are balkanized.


Great statement! And without the audience the artist remains obscure.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2943264 08/15/18 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
@ Fang, Both the Beatles and Elvis had us young teeny boppers not only wanting to play guitar but copying their hair-do's in order to pick up those chicks. Elvis didn't have to worry about having a guitar around his neck with Scotty Moore doing all the guitar work. You would see Elvis on stage and in the movies faking playing those Scotty Moore licks on an unplugged acoustic while seeing Scotty in the background playing them LOL! cool

@ Winston, I too went back to the original OP to make my point just before you did. My worry was the lack of 20 year old super stars when reading the ages on Fangs birthday posts. I asked the same question Doc put out there: i.e. where are they? +1 there is some good new music and artists out there and we just have to search them out. I for one set the way back machine and get more enjoyment out of playing my guitar by [picking] out older classics going all the way back to the 30's LOL! cool


Actually, I got the "bug" to want to learn to play the guitar from the guitar parts on those old SANDY NELSON tunes from the late '50's -early '60's. And too, DUANE EDDY and some of those old bluesmen I used to sneak listens to on my brother's crystal radio put the spark in me too. And then came the folk "craze" and ramped it up too. wink

And too, I noticed lately( in addressing Larry's "where are they?" query) that the guitar in many cases, has become o sort of visual "prop" than an actual played musical instrument. And perhaps(or not) it might go back to something a kid at the plant I worked at said in favor of pre-recorded keyboard bass notes over the playing of an actual bass guitar----

"Why"(he asked) "should I bother messing up my fingers playing one of those things when I can get a just as deep, or even DEEPER bass note on a keyboard and already have the bass-line RECORDED and ready to go?"

And now too, all is available on computer files and all one need do is show up, sing in key and look pretty. In fact, maybe too, the VOCAL is "on file" and all need be done is precise "lip-sync". wink

And +1 on Danny's "Balkanized" idea.
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2943301 08/15/18 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: whitefang

And too, I noticed lately( in addressing Larry's "where are they?" query) that the guitar in many cases, has become o sort of visual "prop" than an actual played musical instrument. And perhaps(or not) it might go back to something a kid at the plant I worked at said in favor of pre-recorded keyboard bass notes over the playing of an actual bass guitar----

"Why"(he asked) "should I bother messing up my fingers playing one of those things when I can get a just as deep, or even DEEPER bass note on a keyboard and already have the bass-line RECORDED and ready to go?"

And now too, all is available on computer files and all one need do is show up, sing in key and look pretty. In fact, maybe too, the VOCAL is "on file" and all need be done is precise "lip-sync". wink

Whitefang


This is not a new concept. It reminds me of our teenage bop shows watching "live" performances on the Dick Clark show. Everyone knew the stars were just lip syncing (especially when the lips were moving at the wrong time) and the instruments were not even plugged in. But we didn't care and we all went along with the gag LOL! We all know when it's not a live performance in the movies and go along with the concept too...I can see the concept on stage by some major acts like Lady GaGa, Madonna, etc. Lots of eye candy and dancing choreography going on up on stage with lots of lip sync. +1 just show up and look pretty. You don't really have to play that guitar. In fact, we turn the sound off and you can't hear the instrument even when the pretty guy or gal is really playing it LOL! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2943396 08/15/18 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
...reminds me of our teenage bop shows watching "live" performances on the Dick Clark show. Everyone knew the stars were just lip syncing (especially when the lips were moving at the wrong time) and the instruments were not even plugged in...

The best "lip syncing" ship ever on Am Bandstand


I been off the scene a minit.
Have we established that the gtr in pop music ain't dead ?
Or do I gotta point out that here even the drummist is gettin' in on it !
[Like Ringo, he's the one w/ the big schnozz]

Last edited by d; 08/15/18 09:48 PM.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2943436 08/16/18 08:26 AM
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Well, LARRY---

Remember back in the late '70's, I think it was... when ELO got into all that teouble when fans thought( correctly or not) that they were playing a pre-recorded tape mixed in with the live performance?

I think my previous post up there was a "zoom" to ya since I wasn't referring to what was done on BANDSTAND or such, but relaying what might more recently be found being done on stage.

Note: "Zoom" in my parlance is what I use to indicate that it seems an earlier comment appeared to "zoom" way over someone's head. wink
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2943442 08/16/18 09:50 AM
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I think several comments have touched on a big issue. I was watching an interview with Billy Corgan and he said, that the music industry made two critical errors. I`m reversing the order for my comment but, one was letting MTV take control over breaking new bands. The other was about letting Napster and related services take over delivering music-but as to the first-the fallout from MTV was, that no one could get wide distribution for their music without a video and a video-friendly-i.e. pretty face-translation-stereotype-to go with it. Someone posted an interview with Frank Zappa, where he was saying that the artist is generally responsible for all costs related to making a video. My youtube video took two years to make. Why-making the video didn`t take two years. Paying for it did. Who cares-family members and a few friends who had time on their hands. In that environment, no wonder five people write and produce a song, and the sixth person actually performs it.


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

Skipsounds on Soundclick:
www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2943500 08/16/18 01:50 PM
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You didn't "zoom" anything by me Fang...I knew your were not referring to Bandstand. I just stated what it made me think of from back in the day. All you needed was the band and a 45 and some lip sync. There is not much difference or magic in trying to mix in a recording with a live performance in todays music. Sometimes you get some good lip sync and sometimes it fails. Like this one on SNL by Ashlee Simpson:



She forgot that the "L" in SNL stood for "Live" causing SNL to piss off a lot of people...

@ d, good example of everyone knowing the lip sync's were not real on Bandstand...I couldn't watch the whole thing LOL!

@ Skip, I think a lot of the music videos gravitated to sexy gals and guys with pretty faces doing the performances...songwriters and bands (along with guitars) faded into the background. cool




Last edited by Larryz; 08/16/18 02:00 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2943537 08/16/18 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
...I was watching an interview with Billy Corgan and he said, that the music industry made two critical errors... one was letting MTV take control over breaking new bands. The other was about letting Napster and related services

That's astute but the fact is those things were beyond the control of the music industry [note that there's a diff between "bizniz" & "industry"---get that ?]....but that's b/c they were asleep at the wheel.
Now that they've adapted &, decades down the line, rebuilt a model that actually gives them more control & revnue than ever before, the reality is that, for those w/ the perception to realize it, the marketing of music, while still complicated & sometimes costly, is more in the hands of artists than anytime since the early days of recording.

& GTRS, IHMO, IZN'T DEAD grin


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2943607 08/17/18 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: d
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
...I was watching an interview with Billy Corgan and he said, that the music industry made two critical errors... one was letting MTV take control over breaking new bands. The other was about letting Napster and related services

That's astute but the fact is those things were beyond the control of the music industry [note that there's a diff between "bizniz" & "industry"---get that ?]....but that's b/c they were asleep at the wheel.
Now that they've adapted &, decades down the line, rebuilt a model that actually gives them more control & revnue than ever before, the reality is that, for those w/ the perception to realize it, the marketing of music, while still complicated & sometimes costly, is more in the hands of artists than anytime since the early days of recording.

& GTRS, IHMO, IZN'T DEAD grin


Ya but that is concurrent with another reality-for the vast majority of artists no matter how good they are, the one thing that is still under the boot heel of large conglomerates, is distribution. Even with social media at our disposal, getting heard by someone who lives across town and is not your mom, is still difficult. If anything it`s harder than ever. In my building there are groups of college students who come for overseas study. It`s a different group every year. The vast majority of them-the ones advertisers want the most-spend most of their free time gaming, or talking about gaming. It takes a LOT of attention-grabbing-like getting arrested, or having the president call you a jackass (take a bow Kanye), to get consumers to notice you. In other words, it`s easier than ever to have your own music empire-within the confines of your living space.


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

Skipsounds on Soundclick:
www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2943617 08/17/18 08:41 AM
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S'OK Larry. Just havin' a bit of fun. But, DID you (or anyone else) recall that ELO flap? I remember it causing a BIG "Stir". Cost them quite a few fans too.

And how many remember that TV show back in the early '80's in which people would come on and have lip sync "competitions"?

And didn't they recently resurrect that concept?

Recall too, that despite any opinions of them, the singing group THREE DOG NIGHT hated the idea of "lip-sync" and whenever they'd appear on BANDSTAND or any other show in which it was common practice, they would clearly intentionally be messing up. wink
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2943635 08/17/18 10:35 AM
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Post by Doc Pate on less than a minute ago
In my search for a new guitar sound I started with new Jazz guitar players since they tend to push the boundaries.

Stephane Wrembel, "Bistro Fada," Origins. Kurt Rosenwinkel, “Filters,” The Next Step. Julian Lage, “223 Butler,” Gladwell. Lionel Louke, “Tin Man,” Gilfema. Gilad Hekselman, “Prelude to a Kiss,” Hearts Wide Open.


Read more: http://guitarplayersforum.boards.net/thread/543/condition-world-guitar-music?page=2#ixzz5ORRkxJhg

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2943639 08/17/18 10:55 AM
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Point of fact: musicians didn’t “let” Napster and similar services take over music delivery- many fought them in court. But that essentially pitted them against their so-called fans, who didn’t understand that, while industry contracts were not all that great for artists (generally speaking), free, illegal downloading was worse. Metallica was most notable in their crusade, and people STILL vilify them for that.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2943641 08/17/18 11:08 AM
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Don't know just what genre' to put Stephan in, but I love it.


Last edited by DocPate; 08/17/18 11:13 AM.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2943645 08/17/18 11:23 AM
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Read the quote insert's final section for relevant remarks.
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Originally Posted By: d
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
...I was watching an interview with Billy Corgan and he said, that the music industry made two critical errors... one was letting MTV take control over breaking new bands. The other was about letting Napster and related services

That's astute but the fact is those things were beyond the control of the music industry [note that there's a diff between "bizniz" & "industry"---get that ?]....but that's b/c they were asleep at the wheel.
Now that they've adapted &, decades down the line, rebuilt a model that actually gives them more control & revnue than ever before, the reality is that, for those w/ the perception to realize it, the marketing of music, while still complicated & sometimes costly, is more in the hands of artists than anytime since the early days of recording.

& GTRS, IHMO, IZN'T DEAD grin


Ya but that is concurrent with another reality-for the vast majority of artists no matter how good they are, the one thing that is still under the boot heel of large conglomerates, is distribution. Even with social media at our disposal, getting heard by someone who lives across town and is not your mom, is still difficult. If anything it`s harder than ever. In my building there are groups of college students who come for overseas study. It`s a different group every year. The vast majority of them-the ones advertisers want the most-spend most of their free time gaming, or talking about gaming. It takes a LOT of attention-grabbing-like getting arrested, or having the president call you a jackass (take a bow Kanye), to get consumers to notice you. In other words, it`s easier than ever to have your own music empire-within the confines of your living space.

No true unless yer looking at the world through some old fashioned, out-of-date lens. Knowing what I know abt you, Skip, I'm surprised you'd even post that.
There are many ways to generate publicity in today's world & some are almost free.
The prob, for some, is they lack vision beyond what others have done & sometimes they can't even see that.

There is, however, a real prob in that many don't really care abt music.
Sadly we see that even at places such as where we are here, when ppl regularly disdain the new or sometimes just checking out anything beyond their old faves.
Just yesterday someone here that I sincerely admire said they'd never heard of a quite well-known & respected guitarist &, further, had no interest in learning abt them (despite not even knowing what they sounded like ! freak ).

That said, there are ways to generate enough general interest to become a viral sensation.
'member this cat ?


SillY ?
Yes...but them got substance won't end there.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2943652 08/17/18 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Don't know just what genre' to put Stephan in, but I love it.



freak freak freak
Have you never heard Django Reinhardt ?!
File under: Gtr Music / Gypsy Jazz


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2943656 08/17/18 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
S'OK Larry. Just havin' a bit of fun. But, DID you (or anyone else) recall that ELO flap? I remember it causing a BIG "Stir". Cost them quite a few fans too.

And how many remember that TV show back in the early '80's in which people would come on and have lip sync "competitions"?

And didn't they recently resurrect that concept?

Recall too, that despite any opinions of them, the singing group THREE DOG NIGHT hated the idea of "lip-sync" and whenever they'd appear on BANDSTAND or any other show in which it was common practice, they would clearly intentionally be messing up. wink
Whitefang


I never really followed ELO's controversy(s) but I did like their music. They were one of the 1st bands accused of lip syncing as they were using recorded orchestra backing tracks in live performances. They had a "Zoom" tour too LOL! But, I think they were just trying to present their original sound from the studio recordings to the audience in their live concerts. I think many bands have had to follow this concept when they produce things in the studio that they can't or have a hard time duplicating on stage (I heard Moody Blues may have had this problem)…

I remember reading an article on Lyndsey Buckingham where he had to go back and practice and develop his sound live, with what Fleetwood Mac did in the studio, so he could duplicate his sound on stage without using any recorded tracks...it was a major task and it is why you see so many different amps and speakers on stage when he performed... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2943794 08/18/18 08:30 AM
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The Moody Blues( as I understand it) were one of the earliest rock bands at the time to take electronic synth stuff onstage( early MOOG and a Mellotron ) in order to, in live performance, closely replicate what was done in the studio.

A buddy of mine that was stationed in Okinawa in the early '70's said too, it took THREE DAYS for a crew to haul all of PINK FLOYD'S equipment( amps and electronic synth stuff) up a mountainside for a concert there( about the "Meddle" period, if memory serves...)
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2943813 08/18/18 11:48 AM
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Trying to capture the recorded sounds from the studio, live on stage, is noteworthy! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2943815 08/18/18 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
Trying to capture the recorded sounds from the studio, live on stage, is noteworthy! cool


One of that bands that I play in, now, on the "tribute band" circuit, doesn't do the "dress up and try to look like the band whose songs we're playing" thing but rather the "close your eyes and you'd swear you were hearing the record" approach. It seems to be working so far... and the other groups attempting the music of this band do the opposite,

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2943820 08/18/18 12:25 PM
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+1 Just having the look will only work if you have the chops to go with it! I went to see Asleep at the Wheel for the 2nd time last night. My kids bought my wife and I tickets in the 2nd row center stage. I was watching Ray Benson's guitar work up close and personal and he hit every note just like he did 48 years ago as did the steel guitar player. The rest of the band were all kids in comparison to the two old guys. They too, hit every note just like the original recordings (with some true improvisation thrown in). It's a real tribute to Bob Wills band! Still going strong today from back in the 70's, when I 1st hitched my wagon to a star! I have great respect for the tribute bands like yours that can capture the classic tunes! To include the originals that are still out there with new players! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2943944 08/19/18 08:43 AM
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I went through a phase where `improvisation is king`-but I never agreed with a lot of my friends who thought every song should be personalized. That`s even aside from those riffs- like `Walk This Way`-that are a signature of the song. If ya can`t play it, just admit it grin . To be able to play it just like the recording is very kool as well- and to combine both styles is an evening rocks hard.


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2943951 08/19/18 10:43 AM
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+1 Certain songs like Pretty Woman, Secret Agent Man, Day Tripper, Memphis, Johnny B. Goode, Brown Eyed Girl, etc., have a guitar riff or an intro that must be included in the presentation. I like to improvise leads and arrange tunes and do my own thing with the rhythm and chords. I will try and incorporate the melody in my leads as well...for the most part my leads and improvisation have suffered as I've been playing solo. When I get the chance to play with my buddies, I start taking a lead now and then just to keep the Guitar World Alive! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2944063 08/20/18 07:34 AM
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Well, I've never heard of any "carved in stone" rules to how a solo should be created and played, so do what you can do. wink
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2944067 08/20/18 09:18 AM
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Oh, I`ve heard of a carved in stone rule. It`s called an audience grin


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2944217 08/21/18 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Oh, I`ve heard of a carved in stone rule. It`s called an audience grin


Well, I thought the post previous to mine was about something else, but true, audiences DO want to hear a "record-like" replication from whatever band is playing whichever tune. My ex used to work in a bar that had live music, and VERY few bands(mostly one; TOBY REDD) got away with NOT sounding "just like the record". wink
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2944224 08/21/18 10:30 AM
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Well there are venues where people go specifically to hear original, or at least non-standard bar music. Some of those places stretch the definition of `bar`-I`m not even sure all of them serve alcohol. But the music is generally high quality, if at times obscure.

Actually there is just such a place in Tokyo, called Commune 2nd. The first version was in a different place, and just Commune. It`s a group of food vendors, with no central management, who assemble and offer a variety of options-including beer. Then next to them, there is a big tent, which is heated in winter. Hot wine is also available then. There`s a stage, and the music I`ve seen tends toward one or two people, one of whom has a looper. I met a Japanese friend there early this year, and we were trying to figure out what language the performer was singing in. We finally decided it wasn`t a language, more like vocal effects.

Last edited by skipclone 1; 08/21/18 10:39 AM.

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2944237 08/21/18 11:35 AM
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You can't play it just like the record if you are going to improvise. Tribute bands have my respect as they can play it just like the record. There are two schools of thought and a never ending discussion in this regard. Follow your heart... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2944252 08/21/18 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Oh, I`ve heard of a carved in stone rule. It`s called an audience grin


Well, I thought the post previous to mine was about something else, but true, audiences DO want to hear a "record-like" replication from whatever band is playing whichever tune. My ex used to work in a bar that had live music, and VERY few bands(mostly one; TOBY REDD) got away with NOT sounding "just like the record". wink
Whitefang


I think a better interpretation of Skip's remark is that an audience is a very strong, though of course not perfect, evaluation of musical entertainment.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2944256 08/21/18 01:49 PM
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To the record labels, the audience is everything.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2944275 08/21/18 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: p90jr
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Trying to capture the recorded sounds from the studio, live on stage, is noteworthy! cool


One of that bands that I play in, now, on the "tribute band" circuit, doesn't do the "dress up and try to look like the band whose songs we're playing" thing but rather the "close your eyes and you'd swear you were hearing the record" approach. It seems to be working so far... and the other groups attempting the music of this band do the opposite,


S0O0O0O0O0 much hard work and focus; commendable! You have my applause.


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2944820 08/24/18 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Let me turn the question around, if I may.

How many of us are using any effects designed and built in this century?


I just played a gig last night with my trumpet playing occasional collaborator. I used my new ElectroHarmonix Mel9 on this gig. I thought it worked with what I was doing amazingly well, which was ambient, droney loops of guitar, with a lot of processing. My conclusion is that this will become a standard part of my rig, but I need to mount it where I can get at it, since I was moving between flute, cello, strings, low choir & high choir rapidly the whole time. What a great evocation of the wonderfully cheesy timbre of the Mellotron samples.

Quote:
When is the last time you tried some Instrument, Device or technique that was completely unfamiliar?


I didn't end up doing it at last night's gig, due to wanting to only carry one guitar & not feeling I have the vocabulary under control just yet, but in the last few weeks I have been exploring, for the first time in 50+ years of playing, open D tuning. It's a wonderful exploration to suddenly have the familiar landscape shift under my fingers. I'm having fun, learning a lot, & stretching my mind a bunch.


Scott Fraser
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Scott Fraser] #2944900 08/24/18 09:46 PM
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Quote:
How many of us are using any effects designed and built in this century?

Good question...and one I’m ill prepared to answer! I don’t really pay attention to when stuff first hits the market.

I will say that I own a few of the EHX 9 pedals and intend to complete the set. Other unusual things? I’ve been buying TWA pedals- Little Dipper & Triskelion so far, Dynamorph not too far off- ThorpyFX dirt pedals, a Keeley Echophase, a phototheremin pedal and the WMD Geiger Counter, to name a few.

But how many of my pedals can truly be considered new as opposed to being revisions of older designs I cannot say.
Quote:
When is the last time you tried some Instrument, Device or technique that was completely unfamiliar?

I’m primarily a vocalist who plays some other instruments. I can legitimately call myself a cellist of sorts, but I gave it up after 20 years when I fell in love with guitar. I play a little bass, too.

I have a small xylophone bought maybe 10 years ago that I fiddle with on occasion.

The most recent new thing I own is my ReacTable app, which I got maybe 5 or so years ago.

It is a scaled down but still quite versatile and powerful version of the ReacTable synthesizer. One day, I’d love to own the real deal, but those really are table sized, and cost several thousand dollars. The app costs a fraction of that, works on any portable Apple or Android device, and functions in exactly he same way as the big boy.


Last edited by Dannyalcatraz; 08/24/18 09:54 PM.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2944916 08/24/18 11:50 PM
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The long and winding road. I'll try to get back to the original question that started this thread in the first place. The guitar world isn't dead by any means, but it's only as vibrant as those who play the instrument. There are many good players out there today, but originality is sorely lacking.


"Let me stand next to your fire!", Jimi Hendrix
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Delta] #2944942 08/25/18 08:43 AM
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Y'know Delta?.....

You seem to be right, and I too, can't figure that out. Dig....

Back in the early days of Rock'N'Roll it wasn't uncommon to see record labels trying to "copycat" some other label's success or their own with "clones" of successful artists. ie: All the ELVIS "look-alikes" and sound alikes that followed HIM after he hit it big. Same thing happened with THE BEATLES. But I thought that all ended by the late '60's when it seemed that NOBODY was trying to copy anyone else. All the "top guys" at the time had NO similarities save just long hair, and nobody's long hair looked the same as someone else's. Watch the WOODSTOCK documentary(ot MONTEREY POP if you wish) and you'll both see AND hear what I mean. But that vibe somehow disappeared by the '80's, and for proof, think of the last GRAMMY telecast you ever saw. OR the what I call the "Spandex Ballet" metal groups of the time. Like, without the videos superimposing the name of both the band and tune, with eyes closed( or open) I could never really tell any of them apart. wink
And by the 90's, although there were several bands I liked, there too, wre many who sounded AND looked like GREENDAY.
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Delta] #2944979 08/25/18 11:41 AM
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Thanks to Delta for an insightful comment, and to Scott Fraser and Dannyalcatraz for finally addressing some of the questions I asked, a while back.

Let me amend a mis-impression I may created; I don't believe that every advancement in Music depends on some new toy, or some new tech. Delta's comment regarding originality still rings true. Many great, influential players created new sounds and new forms of expression with stock gear, by changing the way they thought about using the instrument, and yes, sometimes by re-designing it.

If you live within driving distance of a Guitar Center, you have access to just about any new or recent gear, at least for mainstream suppliers. You can try anything, you don't have to buy it, but you can at least look into something new, enough to have an idea what it does and how it might suit you! If you have a working Guitar on hand right now, especially if you have more than one Guitar, you can try a new tuning, a new style of playing, a new set of string gauges for a different sound.

Waiting for the next Big Name Act to bring us something new - it's not going to happen, that's not how mass marketing works, it's not prone to risk-taking, and any new form of artistic expression is a risk. You want to hear something new, you want to see the Guitar pushed forward somehow, get behind your own damned Guitar, and push! I'm sick to death of hearing how there's nothing good and new, while we drag this Forum into the Nostalgia ditch over and over. Yes, The Beatles were innovators in their time, so was Hendrix, so was Charlie Christian, but how long have they been gone? Do something new, try something new, go listen to something new, or accept that you're just complaining to hear yourself complain.

I expect I'll be unwelcome in here for a while. My apologies, but . . .


"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2944984 08/25/18 11:59 AM
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You'll always be welcome here Brother Winston. Sometimes we have to agree and sometimes we have to agree to disagree. I know what music I love and it's nothing passed '95 so far. I do keep an ear out though and I'm not complaining...


On the new side, I do have a new tech and I just had 5 guitars set up. He did a great job! I have been searching for the right strings before taking them all in and finally found the gauge and the ones I like. 10-50 pure nickel rollerwound by GHS Eric Johnson signature set. I put them on my electrics and acoustics. I also switched from a wound 3rd to a plain one. This was a long standing rule of mine (like forever). But I now have less squeak and more flex for bends.


I don't resist change but I also go back to my old days. Like giving up all those pedals and just going straight in with just a touch of reverb from the amp. Staying with the clean concept that I have always loved best. Yes, I'm getting old and going back to the future LOL! I know what I love and enjoy about playing my music. Getting together with my old music buddies from back in '65 this afternoon for a jam is another of my favorite things to do...we'll be playing a lot of old stuff today too LOL! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2944987 08/25/18 12:08 PM
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Well I think my comment touched on the same point-maybe phrased a little more-ahem-cordially... grin
But there`s a flip side to that coin. Mass marketing interests don`t care who comes up with anything. They care about what sells. I know this is one of my `here he goes again` topics. But it`s a fact. I`m not a fan of hip hop. But those performers are WAY smarter about the money game than previous generations. They will collaborate with anyone and everyone, if it means a hit song. They will team up on a tour with five other artists, the way local club bands usually play.
You can come up with something totally from outer space, new and exciting. But it`s like having an expensive sports car-the costs don`t stop just because you bought it. You have to protect it from theft. The minute someone hears something new, they will start figuring out what it is. Someone else will figure out how to sell it. That is how mass marketing works. You invented it, but you are competing against your own invention. That is why big-budget productions borrow from spy technology.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2945004 08/25/18 01:33 PM
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It's interesting that this came up in my news feed today

https://consequenceofsound-net.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/consequenceofsound.net/2018/08/are-gimmicks-and-antics-turning-rock-and-roll-into-a-joke/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fconsequenceofsound.net%2F2018%2F08%2Fare-gimmicks-and-antics-turning-rock-and-roll-into-a-joke%2F

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2945021 08/25/18 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Thanks to Delta for an insightful comment, and to Scott Fraser and Dannyalcatraz for finally addressing some of the questions I asked, a while back.

Let me amend a mis-impression I may created; I don't believe that every advancement in Music depends on some new toy, or some new tech. Delta's comment regarding originality still rings true. Many great, influential players created new sounds and new forms of expression with stock gear, by changing the way they thought about using the instrument, and yes, sometimes by re-designing it.

If you live within driving distance of a Guitar Center, you have access to just about any new or recent gear, at least for mainstream suppliers. You can try anything, you don't have to buy it, but you can at least look into something new, enough to have an idea what it does and how it might suit you! If you have a working Guitar on hand right now, especially if you have more than one Guitar, you can try a new tuning, a new style of playing, a new set of string gauges for a different sound.

Waiting for the next Big Name Act to bring us something new - it's not going to happen, that's not how mass marketing works, it's not prone to risk-taking, and any new form of artistic expression is a risk. You want to hear something new, you want to see the Guitar pushed forward somehow, get behind your own damned Guitar, and push! I'm sick to death of hearing how there's nothing good and new, while we drag this Forum into the Nostalgia ditch over and over. Yes, The Beatles were innovators in their time, so was Hendrix, so was Charlie Christian, but how long have they been gone? Do something new, try something new, go listen to something new, or accept that you're just complaining to hear yourself complain.

I expect I'll be unwelcome in here for a while. My apologies, but . . .


Or, to put your conclusion sligthly differently:


Last edited by Dannyalcatraz; 08/25/18 04:12 PM.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2945024 08/25/18 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Thanks to Delta for an insightful comment, and to Scott Fraser and Dannyalcatraz for finally addressing some of the questions I asked, a while back.

Let me amend a mis-impression I may created; I don't believe that every advancement in Music depends on some new toy, or some new tech. Delta's comment regarding originality still rings true. Many great, influential players created new sounds and new forms of expression with stock gear, by changing the way they thought about using the instrument, and yes, sometimes by re-designing it.

If you live within driving distance of a Guitar Center, you have access to just about any new or recent gear, at least for mainstream suppliers. You can try anything, you don't have to buy it, but you can at least look into something new, enough to have an idea what it does and how it might suit you! If you have a working Guitar on hand right now, especially if you have more than one Guitar, you can try a new tuning, a new style of playing, a new set of string gauges for a different sound.

Waiting for the next Big Name Act to bring us something new - it's not going to happen, that's not how mass marketing works, it's not prone to risk-taking, and any new form of artistic expression is a risk. You want to hear something new, you want to see the Guitar pushed forward somehow, get behind your own damned Guitar, and push! I'm sick to death of hearing how there's nothing good and new, while we drag this Forum into the Nostalgia ditch over and over. Yes, The Beatles were innovators in their time, so was Hendrix, so was Charlie Christian, but how long have they been gone? Do something new, try something new, go listen to something new, or accept that you're just complaining to hear yourself complain.

I expect I'll be unwelcome in here for a while. My apologies, but . . .


Or, to put your conclusion sligthly differently:



Indeed, on both counts. cool


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2945026 08/25/18 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
It's interesting that this came up in my news feed today

https://consequenceofsound-net.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/consequenceofsound.net/2018/08/are-gimmicks-and-antics-turning-rock-and-roll-into-a-joke/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fconsequenceofsound.net%2F2018%2F08%2Fare-gimmicks-and-antics-turning-rock-and-roll-into-a-joke%2F


Interesting read. But it reinforces my personal perception that audiences are in no small part to blame.

The collective “we” are less likely than ever before to break a band via grassroots fandom- “we” are more dependent than ever on A&R types to bring us the next big thing. “We” are too scared to venture off the gold record paved roads into the more dangerous portions of the Land of Ahhhs.

Amplifying WPS’s point, it has been a good 15+ years since I went to hear live music in a club. Yeah, I’ve been to rock concerts for bands I know and like, and I’ve accidentally stumbled into an open mic night or two, but I haven’t gone to a nightclub for the expressed purpose of hearing new, local music in forever and a day.

That isn’t to say my music hunt is moribund- I find new bands all the time. But I’m definitely not on the cutting edge in my early 50s like I was in my early 20s.

Now, I AM more likely to experiment in my personal musicianship now than I was then...but that’s a fraction of a mere blip on the radar, because I don’t gigor record my stuff. It’s very likely that whatever genuinely good innovations I may find will simply die with me.

Last edited by Dannyalcatraz; 08/25/18 05:17 PM.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2945030 08/25/18 05:27 PM
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So, I guess AI is the next wave?


Last edited by DocPate; 08/25/18 05:27 PM.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2945102 08/26/18 03:47 AM
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A well-stated synopsis of what`s going on, and where to place most of the blame:


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

Skipsounds on Soundclick:
www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2945108 08/26/18 08:36 AM
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As for new technology and all that, I went through the same thing in regards to photography. I spent too many years and much time and expense learning to work my 35mm SLRs to where I can create the kind of images I wanted to by knowing how to set all the dials, buttons and whatever to make it happen. And after all this time, I STILL haven't bothered with digital photography and it's "point and shoot, create the image you want by selecting a setting, do it all FOR you" usage.

Just like most of us(and mostly you guys) didn't take all that time and struggle to learn your way around a fretboard and how to finger chords only later in life buy some gadget(maybe) to clamp on to your fretboard and hit a button and it does it all FOR you, or an entire "guitar" that requires only your hanging it on your neck and turning it on. Did you? wink
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2945122 08/26/18 11:37 AM
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Thanks Skip, very interesting video! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2945377 08/27/18 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
A well-stated synopsis of what`s going on, and where to place most of the blame:


Further legitimizes my post almost exactly a year ago. Modern Pop Music Sucks!

Last edited by Delta; 08/28/18 12:02 AM.

"Let me stand next to your fire!", Jimi Hendrix
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Delta] #2945403 08/28/18 08:27 AM
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Although I'm inclined to agree with that, there ARE some who'd probably disagree.

Like back in the "day", when guys like Hendrix and the whole "counterculture" scene and the bands those guys preferred( Cream, Doors, Airplane, etc.) there were guys, like my older brother, who said basically the same thing. Y'know....like;

"Rock'n'Roll died with BUDDY HOLLY" and all like that. Like it or not, and in spite of any and all effort, we all( for a short time at least) wind up sounding like our parents! wink grin
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2974349 02/07/19 08:50 PM
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I do think there is a general lack of guitar heroes in this generation. There are popular bands, but no real guitar heroes. No one out there is making the next generation want to idolize the guitar and become the next guitar god. Just my opinion.


"Too many people believe guitar lesson websites. One way to be great. Practice. Period."
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: timtheshredder] #2974403 02/07/19 11:42 PM
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Just noticed this (from last August ?!).
If this hasn't been pointed out over the 6 pages so far,
I'd say that it's a combination of one's accumulated awareness of the many things heard/seen/read abt over the course of a long life
+
the lack of awareness, perhaps, of new things to be as excited abt as someone to whom those things are really new.

All aspects of any art go through phases & the more commercial the art, the more rapid the cycles & the more to try to follow....& the more it seems as though it's all been seen/heard before.

I do guarantee that there are lots of great players to be heard & that many of them are doing not just great work but actually new things.



d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: timtheshredder] #2974432 02/08/19 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: timtheshredder
I do think there is a general lack of guitar heroes in this generation. There are popular bands, but no real guitar heroes. No one out there is making the next generation want to idolize the guitar and become the next guitar god. Just my opinion.


Welcome timtheshredder.
As a member of this generation I agree with you to a degree. There are a lot of very good young guitarists out there. Lots of videos have been post on this thread of innovative young guitarist, but none will ever reach the status of Hendrix, Santana, Beck etc.
I love rock and roll, I play rock and roll, but it is no longer king. Rock guitarist will never be as revered by my generation as they were be previous generation. That being said there are still enough of us that will keep guitar music alive and relevant and pass it on to the next generation, just as it was passed on to me by my Grandfather.


Jenny S.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2974453 02/08/19 09:29 AM
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"Revered". Hmph----

Well, by a WHOLE GENERATION is one thing, but it has to start somewhere. For example....

I "revere" classical music, and much of the same music as my PARENT'S generation did, which THEY TOO saw go through a similar phase. Thinking it was "dead" due to the commercial success of "the new thing!" (R'n'R) But there are still "new" bands forming that DO "big band" style jazz, and other genres thought to be dead AND "gone" also still get newer life, although not "revered" at the same level as they once enjoyed, or as what's "new" does now.

Guitars not being the main instrument of "mainstream" music doesn't mean they'll disappear. After all, people STILL play the violin, clarinet, piano and zither AND dulcimer. wink
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2974477 02/08/19 11:37 AM
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Here are a few things to consider regarding this idea.

One of the hallmarks of young ppl is to be both early adopters of new tech & to get deeper into aspects of it in ways that sometimes stun those less familiar w/ it.
I think that's a vital point in regard to this.
When new tech presents really interesting, novel experiences that older ppl may not master immediately, you can be sure there will be some young folks digging in.
One prob, however, is their involvement may not be recognized---or even noticed, unless in a negative way--- by those bemoaning the changing world.

There's also a recurring tendency in cultures for things to go in/out of fashion/popularity.
A relevant example in music might be the return of kboard instruments in the 1970s as sound processing possibilities (more adaptable to control by a keyed trigger) brought keyboard players back into the pop music spotlight more than they'd been for quite some time.
Part of that involved learning new playing techniques to control these new tools as well as new understanding of the processors.
How many are players that may just be stymied by their lack of developing in order to keep apace, whether in technique or recognition of conceptual possibilities or even simply by not being aware or interested in what's actually happening w/young players ?

A few other bits of the mosaic...
Many young ppl get into things to join the world of older ppl around them, hence the many hot young guitarists playing in the styles of heroes from a generation or even 2 before.
[examples = https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=best+young+rock+guitarists+ ]

Some, however, are using the gtr in more versatile ways.
This young woman suggests there's little to fear for the gtr's future. Notice not just her well-practiced technique but the stylistic range & true musicality she exhibits.


Sometimes older folks, as Peter Townshend once hit the nail "just don't dig the new scene"...
Dig into some of these---gizmos or tools waiting for their Jimi ?










& in what may be a step back


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2974479 02/08/19 11:41 AM
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WELCOME ABOARD TIMTHESHREDDER! +1 I am always amazed at the Birthday thread on this Guitar forum. The ages of the guitar "heroes" are mostly in their 50's 60's and 70's. I keep asking where all the 20 year olds are? I remember when I was 16 and we had a bunch of 20 +/- year old guitar R&R heroes. Like The Beatles, CCR, Stones, Beachboys, etc. I'm hoping some new blood will come along soon! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2974751 02/09/19 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
WELCOME ABOARD TIMTHESHREDDER! +1 I am always amazed at the Birthday thread on this Guitar forum.
The ages of the guitar "heroes" are mostly in their 50's 60's and 70's.
I keep asking where all the 20 year olds are !
I remember when I was 16 and we had a bunch of 20 +/- year old guitar R&R heroes. Like The Beatles, CCR, Stones, Beachboys, etc. I'm hoping some new blood will come along soon! cool

The new blood's all around us...but most don't look past the same heroes they've had since, as you noted above, were set when we/they were young.

I pointed out a young woman above who's easily as good already as most of our heroes ever were.
Who's checked her out ?
Who, having even checked her out, will continue to look for her music, performances or recordings ?

There's nothing wrong w/having old faves but there is something wrong w/thinking that the world quit advancing when it was only oneself that did so.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Delta] #2974767 02/09/19 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: Delta
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
A well-stated synopsis of what`s going on, and where to place most of the blame:


Further legitimizes my post almost exactly a year ago. Modern Pop Music Sucks!


Maybe
but consider this:
the research covered in that clip may not be reported accurately
& even if so, may be not much diff than similar studies of the 1930s, 40s, 50s 70s or 1670s might indicate.

Music & all arts have shifting currents that
move more quickly now than ever before
but
that simply means that things go in/out of fashion more quickly
& what we hear seems more familiar all the time
(although, counterintuitively,
many find no dissatisfaction in hearing the same stuff from their youth on a daily basis.



Here's another viewpoint


Perhaps the most accurate idea is that
what ppl hear the most
becomes what they most want to hear
&
few really look for anything outside their comfort zone.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2974778 02/09/19 02:06 PM
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Different perspective -

It may seem that Guitar sales have gone down, but it seems to me like the number of Guitar brands has gone up, and not just in low-end import lines. GP magazine has full-page four-color ads for Trussart Guitar in every issue; they've not exactly impulse buys. Neither are the heavily inlaid Teye Guitars I see, but someone is buying those things.

There are ads for boutique hand-wired Tube Amps, custom parts, along with high $$$ pedals and pre-amps. Andy Summers himself recently declared that we are currently living in the Golden Age of Guitar Pedals, forget the 70's & 80's! (OTOH, if you can't forget the 70's & 80's, just about every pedal you wish you'd bought, or hung onto, is back once more, in some form.) Someone was even crazy enough to revive the Gizmotron!

Times change, and tastes change; when's the last time you heard somebody say, "You know what, I'd really like to take up the Hurdy-Gurdy, that would be really cool"? Same with the Harpsichord, or the Autoharp. When's the last time you even saw any of those in a GC? Maybe a used Autoharp wandered in, somehow, but the others?

Here's the real deal: right now, while even more Guitar makers are trying to sell even more Guitars, in an increasingly narrow retail market (you can only sell so many units to GC, once all the local shops close), the media market isn't trying to sell Guitar bands, not like they once did. Producers make more money by hanging onto to one "artist" they can exploit, and cashing in on co-writing credits, than by taking a risk on a bunch of (presumably) young people who want to write their own songs and create their own sound. When that stops working for them, things will change.


"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2974791 02/09/19 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: d
Originally Posted By: Larryz
WELCOME ABOARD TIMTHESHREDDER! +1 I am always amazed at the Birthday thread on this Guitar forum.
The ages of the guitar "heroes" are mostly in their 50's 60's and 70's.
I keep asking where all the 20 year olds are !
I remember when I was 16 and we had a bunch of 20 +/- year old guitar R&R heroes. Like The Beatles, CCR, Stones, Beachboys, etc. I'm hoping some new blood will come along soon! cool

The new blood's all around us...but most don't look past the same heroes they've had since, as you noted above, were set when we/they were young.

I pointed out a young woman above who's easily as good already as most of our heroes ever were.
Who's checked her out ?
Who, having even checked her out, will continue to look for her music, performances or recordings ?

There's nothing wrong w/having old faves but there is something wrong w/thinking that the world quit advancing when it was only oneself that did so.


It would not matter if I were to check out the young lady or was lost in my own little world of what I do like to listen to. The trend is obvious in the 34 forum pages of birthdays that I am pointing out (i.e. tons of old guys and gals and a very small number in their 20's). The list is objective and is in no way based upon my likes or musical interests nor anyone else's. Is the Guitar world dead? If we don't see some new blood on the birthday list (such as your young lady), I would say it's dying... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2974793 02/09/19 02:44 PM
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The practical retail angle WPS mentions is a real metric...
...as opposed to some measures that may be "meta-tricks" grin
However, there's an even wider world of retail than GC or even Sam Ash, etc.
Indi shops & crafters of gtrs, gear & associated stuff such as straps only widen the picture WPS draws.

Similarly the major sources of music mktg are only a narrow section of the way it's actually working for the last couple decades.
Many more artists are selling their works via their own mktg systems than ever & that number outstrips the standard model for corporate mktg, which really only offers 2 things: wider distribution & legal strength for (C) protection....& that latter is actually losing ground in recent yrs.


His presumption holds, though: the world of music & of the gtr specifically is still strong.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2974794 02/09/19 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
Originally Posted By: d
The new blood's all around us...but most don't look past the same heroes they've had since, as you noted above, were set when we/they were young.

I pointed out a young woman above who's easily as good already as most of our heroes ever were.
Who's checked her out ?
Who, having even checked her out, will continue to look for her music, performances or recordings ?

There's nothing wrong w/having old faves but there is something wrong w/thinking that the world quit advancing when it was only oneself that did so.


It would not matter if I were to check out the young lady or was lost in my own little world of what I do like to listen to. The trend is obvious in the 34 forum pages of birthdays that I am pointing out (i.e. tons of old guys and gals and a very small number in their 20's). The list is objective and is in no way based upon my likes or musical interests nor anyone else's. Is the Guitar world dead? If we don't see some new blood on the birthday list (such as your young lady), I would say it's dying... cool


That's completely wrong & here's why:
that list is posted by some specific individuals at this site & drawn from their list of who they pay attention to...
...if the posters don't pay attention to or aren't even aware of someone, they'll never get mentioned.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2974807 02/09/19 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: d
Some, however, are using the gtr in more versatile ways.
This young woman suggests there's little to fear for the gtr's future. Notice not just her well-practiced technique but the stylistic range & true musicality she exhibits.



VERY nice! Well done, and you are correct on her technical accomplishment, well-versed stylistic versatility, and musicality (a term and a topic near and dear to my heart). I love how from about 1:53 and on, she repeats some phrases that evoke a classic tune- Al Green? The Meters? I know I have a disc with that on it... I'm sure that there are other such gems and nuggets throughout. In any case, she shows great promise and I'll be looking for more from her, thanks!


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2974819 02/09/19 05:56 PM
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Really good. I tried to find some more of her stuff, but our wifi isn't very good today. Maybe because of the high winds, not really sure. Wifi here isn't very good to begin with.


Jenny S.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2974822 02/09/19 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: d




"That's completely wrong & here's why:
that list is posted by some specific individuals at this site & drawn from their list of who they pay attention to...
...if the posters don't pay attention to or aren't even aware of someone, they'll never get mentioned."

[/quote]


It's not completely wrong and here's why:
I see no influence by the poster(s) nor any leaning toward who they pay attention to or try to ignore and find the list historical, objective and informative. I as a matter of fact, know nothing about most of the players that are posted. But I can see their ages and wish them a happy birthday. Perhaps it is not all inclusive for all genres. I am simply stating a trend and commenting on what I have noticed. Feel free to post a birthday list of great or well known guitar players in their 20's for comparison. That would answer my question; Where and who are they? cool

Last edited by Larryz; 02/09/19 06:43 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2974832 02/09/19 09:14 PM
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LarZ, you know I like you & respect yer musical activity & I know you keep up on new gear tools more than I in recent times...but many (not most) of the regulars here demonstrate a clear feeling that The Gtr World/Music In General/Extra-cetera are in decline but at the same time make it clear they seldom check out new or even established players or music of recent vintage.

I must say that nothing in yer post really contradicts what I wrote. In fact it seems to explicitly support my description of that BDay list as one created most recently by posters disinterested in that of which they're not already aware.
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Feel free to post a birthday list of great or well known guitar players in their 20's for comparison. That would answer my question; Where and who are they? cool

Well you had the opportunity to chk one out above.
When her BDay is seems the least relevant part of things.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2974834 02/09/19 09:39 PM
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I like you too d, I'm simply saying that it would not matter whether or not I made a great discovery of a new player regardless of her birthday. I'm not claiming it is even "relevant". What I listen to is irrelevant as the birthday list includes: rock, heavy metal, rap, blues, jazz, rockabilly, rock and roll, etc. What I'm observing is a trend based upon the birthday thread where there is a lack of new guitar players in their 20's being recognized and the demographics of the age groups that are still in the main stream.

The numbers are clear IHMO. The birthday thread started 7/18/17 and in such a short time we have seen 157,651 views and 1,002 posts. Way more than the other threads. There is no conspiracy as to the posters, viewers, artists chosen, etc. I think we need more players like the one you posted, I'm just not seeing the numbers on the list...I wish I did as that is the topic and OP's question... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2974837 02/09/19 09:54 PM
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I think yer ignoringthe point
(Is The Gtr/Music/Everwhat Dead ?)
to debate something beside it
(the validity of a list devoted to celebrating players that's mostly selected by a few players who seldom listen to anything new).
Originally Posted By: Larryz
I think we need more players like the one you posted,

So when'd ya last go look for one ? idk


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2974839 02/09/19 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: d
Some, however, are using the gtr in more versatile ways.
This young woman suggests there's little to fear for the gtr's future. Notice not just her well-practiced technique but the stylistic range & true musicality she exhibits.



VERY nice! Well done, and you are correct on her technical accomplishment, well-versed stylistic versatility, and musicality (a term and a topic near and dear to my heart). I love how from about 1:53 and on, she repeats some phrases that evoke a classic tune - Al Green? The Meters? I know I have a disc with that on it

Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
...from about 1:53 and on, she repeats some phrases that evoke a classic tune - Al Green? The Meters? I know I have a disc with that on it

Hey, yer right !
I can almost recognize that
[1...2...(3)...4.../ (1...2...3...4...) /
/1...2...(3)...4.../ (1...2...3...4...) ]
rhythm yer talking abt
["Danger Will Robinson ! Ear Worm!" rolleyes]
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
I'll be looking for more from her, thanks!

Chk yer PMs, CO'S !


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2974875 02/10/19 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: d
I think yer ignoringthe point
(Is The Gtr/Music/Everwhat Dead ?)
to debate something beside it
(the validity of a list devoted to celebrating players that's mostly selected by a few players who seldom listen to anything new).
Originally Posted By: Larryz
I think we need more players like the one you posted,

So when'd ya last go look for one ? idk


Not a debate, just an observation. I will check with Fang to see where his source is as I don't think you are correct d. I have seen some younger 20 and 30 year olds now and then on the birthday list and there are no old guys refusing to list more AFAIK...Most of my favorites have already been listed and they will most likely come up again (i.e. every 365 days or so). I have ran across new players and lessons by new players on YouTube. The ones that interested me just last night were giving lessons on Scotty Moore leads to a couple of old Elvis tunes I'm working on. Lawdy Miss Clawdy and My Baby Left me by Tom Conlon (I doubt you'll find him on the birthday list).




My choices of new guitar players (male or female) will not change my observation of the birthday stats (i.e. the lack of youngins). cool

Last edited by Larryz; 02/10/19 03:29 AM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2974894 02/10/19 09:12 AM
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My source is a site called "On This Day" (https://www.onthisday.com/today/birthdays.php)

Which can be narrowed down to not only birthdays, but also deaths, events and other historical matters. My only complaint is that they don't always mention a musician's instrument, like only stating, "guitarist", or "rocker" and too, doesn't in all cases mention also their date or year of death. I usually compile the names then go back though and check things out best I can before posting the info on that birthday thread.

Too, I think how much guitars are used or NOT used in modern times(in "popular" music) also depends on the genre. You'll probably ALWAYS see some newcomer, male or female, in the COUNTRY genre performing while holding and at least strumming a guitar. "rock/pop" genre will go through the usual cycles of guys with funny haircuts doing calisthenics( what they call "dancing") while singing insipid lyrics to the same "canned beats" all the others use. wink I have a nephew that gets pissed at me every time I refer to "Those canned beats in AUTOTUNE SAUCE" he likes to listen to. wink laugh
Whitefang

Last edited by whitefang; 02/10/19 09:13 AM.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2974908 02/10/19 12:03 PM
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Larryz Offline
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Thanks for identifying the site Fang...you're doing a great job! I can find lists of great guitar players but they don't give the birthdates... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2974995 02/10/19 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
Originally Posted By: d
I think yer ignoringthe point
(Is The Gtr/Music/Everwhat Dead ?)
to debate something beside it
(the validity of a list devoted to celebrating players that's mostly selected by a few players who seldom listen to anything new).
Originally Posted By: Larryz
I think we need more players like the one you posted,

So when'd ya last go look for one ? idk


Not a debate, just an observation. I will check with Fang to see where his source is as I don't think you are correct d. I have seen some younger 20 and 30 year olds now and then on the birthday list and there are no old guys refusing to list more AFAIK...Most of my favorites have already been listed and they will most likely come up again (i.e. every 365 days or so). I have ran across new players and lessons by new players on YouTube. The ones that interested me just last night were giving lessons on Scotty Moore leads to a couple of old Elvis tunes I'm working on. Lawdy Miss Clawdy and My Baby Left me by Tom Conlon (I doubt you'll find him on the birthday list).




My choices of new guitar players (male or female) will not change my observation of the birthday stats (i.e. the lack of youngins). cool

All that blather abt sources of BDay lists, etc, is totally beside the point of whether the reason some think the gtr world is dead is b/cit's really dying or some just don't bother w/anything new.
Nor does genre matter. There are great players coming along regularly.
All one has to do is actually pay attention to what's available...outside their habitual line of sight.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2975022 02/11/19 02:45 AM
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I find the blather interesting much like a poll that is being taken on an on-going basis. When the data shows a dwindling number of 20 year olds, it indicates that there a fewer young musicians coming up to take the place of all those 70 and 80 year olds. Much like the question asked in the OP. It's not what "some say" or whether or not anyone is looking beyond their own "habitual line of sight". I asked Fang to share his source in hopes that you would find that the data is not being by provided by "players who seldom listen to anything new." The link is now available to you, but somehow I don't think you will click on it. And that's OK too... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2975037 02/11/19 08:37 AM
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I believe what SOME people think, based on what's getting the most "AIRPLAY" these days, IS that the "guitar world" is dead. But also THAT assumption would be made by those not looking beyond their "habitual line of sight" if that line is limited in genre interest. For instance---

Many in these forums are the type who like and listen to just about anything and everything. Yet we( yep, I'm one of 'em) are VERY SMALL in number compared to those who habitually AND intentionally limit their interests. Like those gleeps who always wear "the latest fashions" because they ARE "the latest fashion". Even if it DOES( and often...) make them look stupid. wink But too, remember....

I recall a part in my BEATLES ANTHOLOGY tapes the mention of DECCA records turning THEM down because( and the reason they gave) "Guitar bands are OUT!" wink
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2975052 02/11/19 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
I find the blather interesting much like a poll that is being taken on an on-going basis. When the data shows a dwindling number of 20 year olds, it indicates that there a fewer young musicians coming up to take the place of all those 70 and 80 year olds. Much like the question asked in the OP. It's not what "some say" or whether or not anyone is looking beyond their own "habitual line of sight". I asked Fang to share his source in hopes that you would find that the data is not being by provided by "players who seldom listen to anything new." The link is now available to you, but somehow I don't think you will click on it. And that's OK too... cool

rolleyes
All that's beside the point, I think.
The Q's not got anything to do w/who's on a BDay list nor the accuracy of any such list.
The Q here is, I'd say, the diff in the actual state of pop music vs what some may claim based on their habitual listening (or maybe not even listening but "from their rocking/non-rocking chair" pontificating.
Out in the real world there are prolly more musicians of all types, including gtr players, than ever before.
----------------------------------
Lemme share some PM mss I've gotten recently from newish members.
Quote:
Thank you for being a champion and defender of young artists. I can no long be part of a place where so many have so little respect, not just for young artists but young people in general. Keep up the good fight.

Quote:
I chose to PM you because you are the number 1 defender of young guitarists.
Can not promise to participate more.

I'm not a champion of anything except, I think, real artistry & progress (entertainment's cool; so are reruns of the Mickey Mouse Club, sometimes)
but I think it would behoove us to consider how those young ppl new to this place think.



d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2975092 02/11/19 03:43 PM
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The Guitar World as a business is bigger than it's ever been. Every brand that ever existed has been revived, probably, and there's so many boutique companies I can't keep track of them.

There are technological advancements galore...

As far as music, what the public got to hear used to be decided by a few people controlling things like airplay, record distribution, record company recording budgets...

Now, a kid can record a song in his bedroom on a laptop (or iPhone) upload it to the internet and it catches on he has a hit.

The consequence of that is that few things will ever be as dominant as some things were in the past. Number one records now sell 100,000 copies, where they used to sell 1,000,000. That won't go back to the way things were when we had a "monoculture" for the most part...

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2975228 02/12/19 01:57 AM
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@ d, It will do no good to keep repeating myself except to say that I stand by my previous comments. Anyone can check out what I have posted if they so desire as the information is readily available. There is nothing derogatory that I have said toward any of our younger members. I have always admired our younger artists and do not wish to argue or debate with you or anyone else on the forum. That's not why I'm here. Please let your confidants know that I would not want to say anything that would cause them to leave the forum. You can stop your communications with me, so as to avoid any further confusion. Thanks.

Last edited by Larryz; 02/12/19 01:57 AM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2975231 02/12/19 02:07 AM
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LarZ, I think you got the entirely wrong idea.
None of what I posted has been intended to target you, nor were the quotes I cited abt you or even anyone specific.
Those were comments offered to me abt the forum in general.
However, if you wanna put yerself in the field of those beyond changing yer views, OK.
The world moves on.
------------------
BTW & FWIW,
Mr Chas E A Berry
(aka Chuck)
was
is
& will always be
The King of Rock & Roll

(w/ the possible challenge of Little Richard Penniman)
[Now let's see how long he's quiet grin ]


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2975255 02/12/19 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: d
BTW & FWIW,
Mr Chas E A Berry
(aka Chuck)
was
is
& will always be
The King of Rock & Roll

(w/ the possible challenge of Little Richard Penniman)
[Now let's see how long he's quiet grin ]


HA! See, d? There are some things we actually see eye-to-eye on! shocked cool

(Slight aside....)

In the movie "Hail, Hail, Rock'n'Roll" there's some quick shots of other "legends" talking about Chuck Berry( the film covers prep for Chuck's 60th birthday concert) in which JERRY LEE LEWIS says,...."Chuck Berry is the KING of Rock'n'Roll. My MAMA said that...'Chuck Berry is the king of rock'n'roll' ...I said, But Mama, what about ME? And she told me, 'well son.....you OK, but....Chuck Berry? Well he's the KING!" roll

Great film. I'd say, a fine addition to LARRY's collection of live concert DVDs (lookin' for a copy m'self... wink )
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2975292 02/12/19 12:10 PM
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OK d, you know how to push my buttons...now that Fang agrees with you, I know I'm right! Elvis is the King! Chuck Berry is just another King...as long as I'm not getting blamed for our youth leaving the forum I'll continue our discussions. Here is a youthful story I watched on a newscast yesterday about a 14 year old keeping guitar playing alive. He practices 5 hours a day and has about 20 guitars. He deserves a champion like you to tell his story, if you missed it, click on the video:

www.nbc29.com/story/39946245/colorado-14yearold-rocks-global-guitar-competition-takes-top-honors



cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2975331 02/12/19 02:56 PM
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Check out this site.
https://www.famousbirthdays.com/profession/guitarists.html

You can find by age.
You can type in date and then find by profession.
Above link will not open, use this link www.famousbirthdays.com and type in guitarist where it asks for date.

Last edited by surfergirl; 02/12/19 03:28 PM.

Jenny S.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2975334 02/12/19 03:05 PM
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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2975382 02/12/19 06:40 PM
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Yes, I think that was my point. I didn't mean to insinuate that there are no more good guitarists. There are tons of them. There are just no more "guitar gods" that make young people want to pick up the guitar and play. Some of that has to do with change demographic and some of it has to do with changing interests and tastes in music. Like you said, rock is not as big as it once was. That might have a lot to do with it.

Or is it a chicken or the egg? Maybe rock is dying because we don't have another Eddie to make young people interested in it again. I don't think I can really come up with a single "guitar god" post Kurt Cobain.

I can think of popular bands with good guitarists like Avenged Sevenfold, but that's not really the same. You know?

Last edited by timtheshredder; 02/12/19 06:40 PM.

"Too many people believe guitar lesson websites. One way to be great. Practice. Period."
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2975385 02/12/19 06:44 PM
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Totally agree! +1

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2975387 02/12/19 06:47 PM
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I don't think it's an argument of people being good guitarists. It's the idea that there aren't any "guitar gods" of this generation. That includes skill, popularity, and recognition. Who would you place as a "guitar god" post 2005?

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: timtheshredder] #2975394 02/12/19 07:07 PM
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@ Doc, Thanks! Totally agree...There a are some other greats like Chuck Berry like d mentioned, But it's still gonna be hard to beat Elvis the Kings' Records! [pun intended]! cool

@ Surfer Girl Thanks, great site! Just for fun I typed in 2017 Grammy winners which shows their ages. 37 32 30 25 69 32 28 85 63 85 87 78 49 52 50 32 50 61 50 24 47 40 50 77 27 67 & 89. 85% are age 30 or above. Comes out the same as what I see on our birthday thread...at least it's a site where I can see the ages of the entertainers. These are not guitar players so it's a little OT. I want to see more young artists getting Grammy's too! cool

And Again @ Scott, Congrats on your Grammy! Great job! cool

Last edited by Larryz; 02/12/19 07:08 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2975404 02/12/19 07:39 PM
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This years Grammys had something for everyone, unless you watched, that was torture. Greta Van Fleet, ages 20-22, best rock album, Buddy Guy, 82, best traditional blues album, and Kacey Musgraves, 30, album of the year+3 more.


Jenny S.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2975407 02/12/19 07:53 PM
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Larryz Offline
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@ Surfer Girl, +1 I went back and looked and the numbers and they came out better for younger artists in 2019. They went from 15% to 25% under age 30. I can't take watching the awards shows anymore but I still admire those who take home a Grammy! cool

Last edited by Larryz; 02/12/19 07:53 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: timtheshredder] #2975411 02/12/19 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: timtheshredder
I don't think it's an argument of people being good guitarists. It's the idea that there aren't any "guitar gods" of this generation. That includes skill, popularity, and recognition. Who would you place as a "guitar god" post 2005?


Nels Cline became widely known after 2005, at the age of almost 50, when he joined Wilco. He is a guitar god and he plays for huge crowds in that band.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2975412 02/12/19 08:23 PM
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You know who has been driving guitar sales for the past few years? Taylor Swift... and she's driving sales among teenage girls... and that's awesome.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2975413 02/12/19 08:27 PM
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This is all reminding me of something Elliot Easton said, about how the trumpet player was once the soloist and famous... then the sax players had their era of being the soloist.. then guitar became the featured solo instrument and hung in there forever if you look at it in historical terms. Now the dj/recording engineer or guest rapper gets the mid-song breakdown spot to push the song to the next level. It's just how it goes...

So if there had been a Trumpet Player message board back in the 1950s we'd be asking "where have the Trumpet Heroes gone?"

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: timtheshredder] #2975452 02/13/19 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: timtheshredder
I didn't mean to insinuate that there are no more good guitarists. There are just no more "guitar gods" that make young people want to pick up the guitar and play.

Uh....NAH !
Yer looking at this from whatever demographic you is but not from the angle of a young person who is motivated to play gtr by some gtr player they heard.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2975453 02/13/19 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: surfergirl
This years Grammys had something for everyone, unless you watched...

freak facepalm grin


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2975461 02/13/19 09:15 AM
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Re: "guitar gods", yes, I think it's true: the general public doesn't revere good guitar players like they used to.

That doesn't mean that GGPs can't make a living playing music, and that they aren't appreciated by their PEERS, such as those of us on the forum.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2975462 02/13/19 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
OK d, you know how to push my buttons...now that Fang agrees with you, I know I'm right! Elvis is the King! Chuck Berry is just another King...as long as I'm not getting blamed for our youth leaving the forum I'll continue our discussions. Here is a youthful story I watched on a newscast yesterday about a 14 year old keeping guitar playing alive. He practices 5 hours a day and has about 20 guitars. He deserves a champion like you to tell his story, if you missed it, click on the video:

www.nbc29.com/story/39946245/colorado-14yearold-rocks-global-guitar-competition-takes-top-honors



cool


Well, one kid in an obscure video that has a glut of guitars and an interest in "shredding"" history does not a "trend" make.

But, it's a good beginning! wink

Plus, I think the main reason MANY people( not just me, d and Jerry Lee's mom) think Chuck Berry is the "true" king of Rock'n'Roll was his dedication to the genre. NO cheezy movies, NO Vegas lounge act, just ALL Rock'n'Roll,ALL his career( OK with a teeny bit o' blues thrown in wink ).

That plus the FACT that most(if not all) of our guitar "heroes" from the '60's claim CHUCK as the main influence and catalyst for them picking up a guitar in the FIRST PLACE is the reason. smile

The last time I saw Chuck live was back in '87 when he appeared at the annual pre-race festivities of the Detroit Grand Prix races at the city's riverfront HART PLAZA. (I got some great photos! ). He had people from their mid to late '60's, early to mid '70's, AND kids like my daughter( 12 at the time) down to little FIVE YEAR OLDS jumpin' jivin' and dancing to the old Chuck "standards"! laugh

Of course, y'all know I have NOTHING AGAINST Elvis, whom I'll always feel HAS done more to PROMOTE Rock'n'Roll as a VALID commercial music genre than any contemporary. AND mostly due to him being the WHITE guy! wink

BTW: A "famous birthdays" site I sometimes use doesn't limit itself to just guitar players(although I'll have to give SUFERGIRL'S site a try) and also lists kids that are considered INSTAGRAM "stars" and such, which I'll never understand. I mean, what's DONE on Instagram that can make someone a "star"? shocked
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2975475 02/13/19 12:20 PM
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I think a young kid flying from Colorado to London and winning 1st place in a guitar competition making our national news is more than just an obscure video of a kid with a glut of guitars (which I knew you would key on Fang LOL!). I never said anything about a "trend" or "shredding."

I have no idea as to the criteria for making oneself a star on Instagram, as I have never visited the site.

I love Chuck Berry, but I'm afraid that the "true" title belongs to Elvis...google it. cool


Last edited by Larryz; 02/13/19 12:21 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Eric Iverson] #2975480 02/13/19 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Eric Iverson
Re: "guitar gods", yes, I think it's true: the general public doesn't revere good guitar players like they used to.

That doesn't mean that GGPs can't make a living playing music, and that they aren't appreciated by their PEERS, such as those of us on the forum.


I think it's a mistaken perception that the general public ever did.


d=halfnote
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