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Is The Guitar World Dead hi #2940773 08/01/18 04:56 PM
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Is it just me or is the world of guitars dead? Nothing new or exciting! Sure, we talk about new stuff like pedals, modeling amps, and Gibson's woes, but where is the Jimi, Stevie Ray, Django, or whomever that's creating the excitement?

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2940779 08/01/18 05:19 PM
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It's not dead. It just smells funny.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: CEB] #2940791 08/01/18 06:02 PM
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Not near dead, there are lots of good young guitarist. Musical tastes have changed, blues and rock guitarists no longer get the big stage. Greta Van Fleet is playing in a 1000 capacity venue in Honolulu, as an example.
Here is a short list:
Kenny Wayne Shepherd (41 the oldest)
Gary Clark Jr
Brittany Howard
Marissa Paternoster
Jake Kiszka (22 the youngest)
The list could go on, they are out there, it is just a different era and they play mostly in anonymity.




Last edited by surfergirl; 08/01/18 06:06 PM.

Jenny S.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: surfergirl] #2940810 08/01/18 07:13 PM
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There are still a lot of great guitar players out there. Just got to buy a ticket and go see them now and then. cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2940824 08/01/18 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Is it just me or is the world of guitars dead? Nothing new or exciting! Sure, we talk about new stuff like pedals, modeling amps, and Gibson's woes, but where is the Jimi, Stevie Ray, Django, or whomever that's creating the excitement?

Yer just not looking for what's out there.
You think it's dead b/c, maybe, yer imagination is closed to what's new.

That's harsh sounding but don't let yerself be sucked under , Buddy.
Here's some trite but true advice: be the change....


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2940835 08/01/18 10:13 PM
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We talked about related topics in other forums. Younger generation players vs the old guys. I'm a keyboardist and we are sort or more rare than other instrumentalist where I live so I am fortunate to get to play with younger acts. I also play some pedal steel where you are expected to be older than Hell.

I like playing with young'uns. There are not as many players with the newer generations as with my generation. There are more things competing for young people's time but on average I think the people who take up playing today get better faster than we did. It makes sense with the easy dissemination of information on the internet and things like YouTube and Skype. I have local friends doing online Skype lessons with Brent Mason. It is a new ballgame today.

I like playing with younger people. They have more energy. A lot of guys my age are stuck in what is now called Classic Rock or sometimes Blues. Some days I think they are just too lazy to learn new songs. I'm always hoping to win that 21-35 year old female market. If the women come to the shows the men will follow.

I mean if we just had Audacity when I was a teenager and I could slow stuff down without altering pitch or pitch correct material without changing speed I could have transcribe everything at a much earlier age. There just isn't as many young players taking up the art and many today do not want to gig. Many really hot young cats are coming out of churches today.

Last edited by CEB; 08/01/18 10:16 PM.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: CEB] #2940837 08/01/18 10:39 PM
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All true I admit. I'm open to change but where's the innovation? Love of covers and I see many tribute bands. Sure, we have new artists cutting records playing songs that have a good rock sound. Just not really new. IMHO

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2940849 08/02/18 12:02 AM
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With the amount of music that has been made since the innovations in recording back in the early 1900's through the 60's and through till now there has been a myriad of differing styles, melodies, even new genera's.

The stuff being recorded as popular music today is different than anything that came before. I don't listen to it, but my wife does and I hear stuff in it that I never heard before. The guitar is either missing or in the very background.

The guitar does not seem to have the same place in popular musical taste ever since the big rock, blues, jazz, and country guitar players of the 50's, 60's, and 70's, even a little of the 80's.

All that said, I still love making noise on my three guitars... cheers


dbm
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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: CEB] #2940856 08/02/18 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: CEB
We talked about related topics in other forums. Younger generation players vs the old guys. I'm a keyboardist and we are sort or more rare than other instrumentalist where I live so I am fortunate to get to play with younger acts. I also play some pedal steel where you are expected to be older than Hell.

I like playing with young'uns. There are not as many players with the newer generations as with my generation. There are more things competing for young people's time but on average I think the people who take up playing today get better faster than we did. It makes sense with the easy dissemination of information on the internet and things like YouTube and Skype. I have local friends doing online Skype lessons with Brent Mason. It is a new ballgame today.

I like playing with younger people. They have more energy. A lot of guys my age are stuck in what is now called Classic Rock or sometimes Blues. Some days I think they are just too lazy to learn new songs. I'm always hoping to win that 21-35 year old female market. If the women come to the shows the men will follow.

I mean if we just had Audacity when I was a teenager and I could slow stuff down without altering pitch or pitch correct material without changing speed I could have transcribe everything at a much earlier age. There just isn't as many young players taking up the art and many today do not want to gig. Many really hot young cats are coming out of churches today.


I'm a keyboardist and we are sort or more rare than other instrumentalist where I live

That's everywhere... as proof of that, I've been hired for gigs as a keyboardist... and I suck. And they called me and insisted I do the gig after I made damn sure they knew I sucked, and I would bring a guitar, too, so that I could save face at some point, because I really suck on keys.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2940857 08/02/18 12:52 AM
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Then I started paying attention... most of the guys on keys are faking it like I did... a tell-tale moment was when a band inevitably played "Don't Stop Believing"... the keyboardist either did one hand and let the bass guitar play the left-hand part in the intro... or the didn't play on the intro at all, strangely... I can at least pull that one off half the time...

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2940860 08/02/18 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
I'm open to change but where's the innovation? Love of covers and I see many tribute bands. Sure, we have new artists cutting records playing songs that have a good rock sound. Just not really new. IMHO


I'm really not interested in what cover bands are playing, nor most people with record contracts. The guitar interests me because it's the means I have for making music, & it knows a whole lot more than I ever will about making music. It teaches me something every time I pick it up. Guitar isn't dead for me at all, it's an ongoing learning, enriching experience. I don't care if nobody else is innovating with it. It's my own relationship with the guitar that interests me.


Scott Fraser
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Scott Fraser] #2940861 08/02/18 01:43 AM
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Relating to Scott`s comment, here is my reply to your FB version.

If I may be so bold-since when is guitar all about being a spectator? I`ll go further-since when is music about that? being bored with what`s out there is the best motivation for picking up your instrument and doing something different. If you don`t get free guitars for life out of the deal, so what? do it anyway.


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2940863 08/02/18 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Relating to Scott`s comment, here is my reply to your FB version.

If I may be so bold-since when is guitar all about being a spectator? I`ll go further-since when is music about that? being bored with what`s out there is the best motivation for picking up your instrument and doing something different. If you don`t get free guitars for life out of the deal, so what? do it anyway.


I play what I play because it's what I want to hear- and feel and experience- that I'm generally not getting, for the most part, anywhere else. Or, it's more of what I want that I already liked.


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Caevan O'Shite] #2940870 08/02/18 04:06 AM
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Younger guitarists worth listening to?

Animals As Leader’s Tosin Abasi?



Rival Sons’ Scott Holiday?



Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation:
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2940872 08/02/18 04:26 AM
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Or the young to youngish guitar slingers in Japanese bands like Asterism, Polysics, and Elephant Gym?





Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation:
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2940873 08/02/18 04:32 AM
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Touchstyle guitarists like Jan Laurentz?




And other YouTubers like Diego Ferri?




Last edited by Dannyalcatraz; 08/02/18 04:45 AM.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2940893 08/02/18 09:14 AM
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There will always be creative people out there - the question is, WILL THEY BE HEARD? Mass media will mostly not promote them, being stuck in formulas. They want to stick with the tried and true, and not risk spending big bucks on something new. This is not true just in music. Check out all the remakes on Broadway and movies and on TV - maybe different names, but the same old plot lines.

So it's up to us to seek out creative people flying under the radar. With YouTube you can find them easily. And then support ones you think are deserving.

As far as major sea changes, like with Hendrix and the Beatles, Miles and Coltrane, etc. - that affect the music scene in general, that's not so easy to find. It doesn't seem like true innovators with mass popularity are born every day.

In the meantime, I've got a big record(ing) collection and access to the Net, and won't be dying of musical starvation any time soon, LOL.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Eric Iverson] #2940919 08/02/18 11:17 AM
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When looking at the birthday thread everyday, I'm amazed at the number of old dudes and the lack of new dudes (and gals) as known guitarists that are out there today. The average age is way over 40, 50 and 60. Many are from back in the day when I was a teeny bopper. Bands like the Beatles, CCR, Cream and Stones, and many other rockers were in their 20's. I keep asking where are all the new guitar heroes these days? idk


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2940944 08/02/18 12:46 PM
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Guitar had it's day several times in my lifetime, the twangsters of the 50's the rocksters of the 60's, the punkers of the late 70's, the hair bands of the 80's. Then the guitar faded away a bit but sure enough it will reappear someday somehow in a new incarnation of innovation.....


dbm
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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: desertbluesman] #2940962 08/02/18 02:11 PM
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Let me turn the question around, if I may.

How many of us have bought a Guitar or Amp made in this century, one that isn't simply an extension or a reissue of an existing line?

How many of us are using any effects designed and built in this century?

How many of us use a Guitar, or Amp design that didn't exist 10-15-20 years ago?

Anyone here playing an ERG (Extended Range Guitar) like a 7- 8- or 9-string?

When is the last time you tried some Instrument, Device or technique that was completely unfamiliar?

Anybody listening to, or looking for, new, younger players in their local scene, instead of waiting to hear something new by accident?

Very often, when established players try to do something new, their old fans turn away. I remember a number of players who were perplexed when John McLaughlin fired up a Ring Modulator. I also recall a King Crimson show back in 2000, (the Level Five tour) when the band was bringing out some of the most exciting and challenging new material I'd heard in years, and some yahoo in the audience yelled out, "Are you trying to get us to leave?"

I know a lot of folks my age who never listen to any band, or much of any Music, that appeared after the mid-1970's. I know a lot of players who aren't using anything that wouldn't be familiar to Hendrix or John Lennon, if they were still with us. I often wonder what Hendrix would be using, if he were still alive and playing? Do we really think he'd still be fronting a Strat and a line of Marshall stacks?

Leo Fender continued designing Guitars long after selling Fender, and while many of his later G&L designs recall his original Strat, there were innovations as well, including noiseless SC's, improved tremolo systems, or those wild-looking split-coil pickups on the Comanche. He could have just spent the rest of his life churning out "Strats", under whatever name, and people would have gladly bought them, but he kept tweaking, and trying new things.

If the Guitar world is dying, it's because we're not doing enough to keep it fresh and vital. The Music my parents listened to in the 30's and 40's was overshadowed, and eventually overcome, by the advent of Rock'N'Roll. By 1965, you couldn't really find any young people listening to Benny Goodman, or Duke Ellington, we were all into The Beatles, The Stones, or The Animals. Right now, in 2018, it's no surprise that we're wondering if "Rock Is Dead"? The real surprise is that anyone is still listening, after nearly 70 years?


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: desertbluesman] #2940963 08/02/18 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
Guitar had it's day several times in my lifetime, the twangsters of the 50's the rocksters of the 60's, the punkers of the late 70's, the hair bands of the 80's. Then the guitar faded away a bit but sure enough it will reappear someday somehow in a new incarnation of innovation.....


Did you sleep through the 90s? That's when it made a big comeback after all of the excessive production, synths, sequencing, etc of the 80s. There was a backlash and we went the other way with the grunge/garage bands that were all guitar, no keys. Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots, Foo Fighters, Tool, etc.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2940964 08/02/18 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
All true I admit. I'm open to change but where's the innovation? Love of covers and I see many tribute bands. Sure, we have new artists cutting records playing songs that have a good rock sound. Just not really new. IMHO

One can look to music outside one's culture or to music from other eras but at a certain point one has heard abt every way of forming a musical composition there may be.
We have examples already posted abt innovative playing methods & the are more examples available to be cited.

I don't think that's the problem here, though.
I think it's a misperception of what constitutes innovation.
Most of the players in gtr history weren't particularly innovative & I'll double down on that for the 20th C when most of us developed our heroes.
They seemed innovative to us when young because it was new to us not b/c it was new.

Everyone finds their own sense of newness in the their experience.
Everyday we wake up.
Is it a new day w/fresh possibilities?
I think so every day when I drag my old, tired butt out to do what I must do & what I want to do.
Some ppl may just not want to see it that way.
I'll be honest---this is starting to seem like an attitudinal problem rather than a real one.

Relevant lyric "EVERY DAY'S A NEW DAY"


Relevant lyric "HOPE I DIE 'FORE I GET OLD"




d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2941109 08/03/18 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
... but where is the Jimi, Stevie Ray, Django, or whomever that's creating the excitement?


Neither of us have been "discovered" yet. rimshot

thu


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: BiC] #2941125 08/03/18 11:53 AM
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Following up my post jut above, I'd suggest that most of the innovations we might be considering came as much (maybe more) from tech developments as from what players actually did.
Les Paul, Hendrix & others like Beck...they played well & had individual styles but so much ofwhat they achieved wasfrom new tools they had.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2941131 08/03/18 12:12 PM
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My vote goes to talent d...They didn't just play well, they were/are stars for a reason. Les Paul also helped invent some of that new technology. It goes back to Django being able to mic his guitar and bringing the sound to larger audiences. You have to admit these guitar heroes had something very special well beyond the equipment advances. I'm referring to all of them like Chet Atkins, Jerry Reed, Tommy Emmanuel, Merle Travis, SRV, Eric Clapton, BB King, Les Paul, Jimi, Beck, Django, many classical masters just using a guitar or [insert name]. I get where you are coming from d, but talent negates any and all equipment advances IMHO. cool

Last edited by Larryz; 08/03/18 12:12 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2941190 08/03/18 05:24 PM
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I don't know if guitar is passe' now or not. If it is, it has gone out of fashion before, and come back, several times. If I understand the way it works correctly, whatever music is popular tends to drive the musical instrument market.
In the 40's, when radio was king, country music became a force to be reckoned with. In the 50's, rockabilly came out of country, and the first rock super star, Elvis Presley, was broadcast into every living room in America on TV, albeit from the waist up only. But enough of the guitar hanging around his neck was visible to inspire a generation of music industry suits that there was a gold mine waiting to be exploited.

There's gold in them thar hillbillies!

And, music industry types, being non-creative Phillistines, kept on flogging the horse into the 60's, and prepared the way for The Beatles, who by way of the Ed Sullivan show, fired the guitar into the public consciousness like a howitzer shell. And American Bandstand drove it in even further. Next thing you know, every TV show that can shoehorn a rock band into their 30-60 minute slot of airtime does so, and it's a guaranteed ratings boost. By this time FM radio became a force for marketers to push music into the public arena, with improved sound quality. Meanwhile, TV is still driving popular culture all the way into and through the 70's and 80's.

Guitar lost some popularity with the advent of disco, but came back really strong with MTV. That's where SRV and the hair metal guys got their audience. But, that went away with the change of MTV to whatever it has become.

Nowadays, the media is so fragmented that it's hard to generate a large audience. Whereas in the 40's-80's and into the 90's, audiences had many fewer choices to make as to where their time and money would be spent, first cable, then the internet, now streaming TV, and whatever the next innovation in programming distribution to come down the pike will fragment the audience even further. he marketing suits have divided the audience by aiming formats at separate demographic groups, They do that in order to sell more ads to folks looking to reach those individual demographics, and thereby maximize the effect of their advertising dollar.

Right now, there probably isn't a lot of guitar-driven music on the top 40, or whatever they call it now. Probably not a lot of guitar players on TV in prime time, since the variety show went the way of the high-button shoe. So, even if kids of all ages were actually watching these days, they wouldn't be seeing guitar players much, and the monkey-see-monkey-do effect, which is what drove the guitar boom in the first place, can't kick in.

So, barring a new thing that reunites the audience into the mass it once was, I have grave doubts we'll see a boom in anything, possibly ever again.

Sorry to get all long-winded on y'all. Boy get some folks started...


Always remember that you�re unique. Just like everyone else.



Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2941194 08/03/18 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
My vote goes to talent d...They didn't just play well, they were/are stars for a reason. Les Paul also helped invent some of that new technology.

That was my point, eh ?
Les Paul was a great player but what was innovative abt his playing was in actuality his inventiveness & use of mutli-tracking + vari-speed overdubbing.
His playing was, in fact, 2ndary [yes, now I'm blending words & numbers :D] .
Same deal w/ Hendrix.
He was a great player & probably the best of his era at combining all the styles of pop music as well as being a tremendously creative composer...but what put him above all the concurrent talent like Beck & Page was his grasp & use of new tech (thanks, Mr Mayer !).
Originally Posted By: Larryz
It goes back to Django being able to mic his guitar and bringing the sound to larger audiences. You have to admit these guitar heroes had something very special well beyond the equipment advances. I'm referring to all of them like Chet Atkins, Jerry Reed, Tommy Emmanuel, Merle Travis, SRV, Eric Clapton, BB King, Les Paul, Jimi, Beck, Django, many classical masters just using a guitar or [insert name]. I get where you are coming from d, but talent negates any and all equipment advances IMHO. cool

Those guys are all great players, too, but other than Les & Hendrix not really innovators, except in the case of Beck's incredible mix of pitchbending methods.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2941196 08/03/18 05:44 PM
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Here's why the gtr will always be one of the main instruments in pop music.
Other than small portable synths (or the uke) it's the most portable, inexpensive & easy to get started on instrument.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2941209 08/03/18 06:52 PM
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Here's a question that this thread invites.
Great Van Fleet--good, bad, what ?
Hardly innovative but them cats CAN PLAY v well & the singer has skills, too.
Also much more than a LedZ clone. They pull from all recent rock (even U2 & Adele !).
Big push behind 'em (check their website, they have international representation).
Is this indicative of a new groundswell of gtr kids ?

Catch the rhythm track here




Every days a new day


SO ?
snax


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3 weeks from today at the Republik in Honolulu, I can't wait. I ordered a t shirt to wear to the concert, it cost the same as the tickets. Oh well!


Jenny S.
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