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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2942374 08/10/18 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: p90jr
I was raised by Jazz musicians... "dress like you belong onstage" was always in the back of my mind, anyway, but yeah, dress like you belong onstage. "No, but I can tell you're a real musician... you know how? You're dressed like it... you're wearing pants. Most of the guys who play here look like they just mowed the lawn and then rode the mower over here to play crappy songs..."


Excuse me for truncating your comments, but I rail about this constantly. One night, I got a remark very much like that. "You must be a Musician. You're the only one here who's dressed."

I've also seen gear heads who essentially ignore their audience, while hunched over a pile of boxes that no one can really see: it might be somewhat more interesting if there were a mirror overhead, so you could see what they were doing. I arrange all my sounds and settings before a show, so I don't have to waste time turning knobs, or trying to remember which patch is the next sound I need.

IMHO, dressing well, making sure that your gear is in order, and engaging your audience are all about the same thing: respect. You show respect for yourself and your audience by looking good and acknowledging them, you show respect for your craft by performing well, and maintaining your Instrument. Otherwise, just stay home and stop making the rest of us look bad.


Yep. Thank you.

I know this stuff might not apply to casual patio gigs at a Mexican restaurant or the corner of a pool hall... but when people complain that those gigs are all they get, well...

GP Island
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: p90jr] #2942378 08/10/18 04:00 PM
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Quote:
I do believe that the cutting of music appreciation for grade school kids ("impractical waste of money") and music education programs overall has created a few generations now of people who don't have the groundwork to appreciate anything but the crudest, simplest melodies... and popular music has become 98% rhythm as a result... as in, records are 98% drum machine patterns with one-to-three note bass parts.


A few months ago, I was at my barber’s- a very typical, NOLA neighborhood-style black shop (in a suburb of Dallas!)- and the discussion had turned to the funding of education and which programs were deemed valuable and which got cut. I pointed out that, besides music programs, HomeEc, shop and other non-college prep courses were all being axed. I then pointed out a lot of supply-side states like KS & OK had even started cutting back on mainstream classes and days per week...despite their own numbers showing that $1 invested in education has a ROI of @$1.83.
hitt

Then I asked a question: “By show of hands, how many people in this room learned “Cherry Blossoms” on a recorder at school?” Everyone over 30 raised their hands...and nobody under 30 did.

Last edited by Dannyalcatraz; 08/10/18 04:01 PM.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Scott Fraser] #2942387 08/10/18 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: Larryz
I never cared for the on stage destruction of guitars, even when done by Stevie, Jimi and others. I would think that they would have more respect for the instrument that brought them fame (i.e. the Stratocaster). Especially when thinking about Leo's Birthday today! cool


I think it was a very short period. I saw The Who in 67 or 68 at the Hollywood Bowl & there was no trashing on that gig.


I'm glad it was short lived for Jimi and the Who...I think Stevie carried it on a bit longer (from about '70 - '90), probably paying tribute to the Jimi vibe here and there live on stage...I think Punk Rock bands carried it on for awhile too... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2942493 08/11/18 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Something I've noticed over the years when attending a local place featuring live music, if the band played something original and unique, the audience would begin to ask for more covers. I suppose the majority of the listening world prefers to hear music they know.


re: See my comment on the subject of bands doing "covers" in the other place. wink

Real quickly here, I'll mention just about every band we know and love started out doing covers of popular tunes of the day. And that The Beatles and The Stones didn't start THEIR careers playing "Please, Please Me" and "Satisfaction" in Hamburg and London respectively, did they....? wink Oh, and LARRY....

Wasn't your beloved ELVIS' first recording a "cover" also? wink Hell, even his most popular "classic hit"( "Hound Dog") was a cover. wink
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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2942506 08/11/18 11:01 AM
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Yes, Elvis did many covers of black rhythm and blues tunes from the late 40's to include That's Alright (his 1st recording and rock and roll hit in 1954), Hound Dog, Good Rocking Tonight (his 2nd recording and rock and roll hit) and many others. I think his most popular hit was Heartbreak Hotel (which was his 1st recording at RCA after leaving Sun Records). cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2942622 08/12/18 07:47 AM
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Well, you the Presley freak, so I'll concede that point. But it seems to me that over the years, more people associated him more with HOUND DOG and JAILHOUSE ROCK as being his most popular tunes. In fact, it wasn't till much later that most of us came to learn someone ELSE did "Hound Dog" before he did. wink
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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2942676 08/12/18 02:59 PM
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Hound Dog and Jailhouse Rock were major hits back in the early days (Jailhouse Rock was also made famous in the movie world). +1 Many of the Black R&B tunes Elvis had major hits with were like Hound Dog, most people had never hear of them before. The original ain't exactly like the Elvis re-arrangement, but it's still very cool to go back and listen to. John Lennon was influenced by Heartbreak Hotel which was popular across the pond as well as here in the US. It became a million seller in the US topping all 3 Billboard genres earning Elvis his 1st gold record in 1956. cool

ps. Disclaimer: I'm a lover of his early work for the most part. Not really a fan of a lot of his later stuff.

Last edited by Larryz; 08/12/18 03:02 PM. Reason: ps.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2942690 08/12/18 04:58 PM
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I think Elvis' top seller was "Don't Be Cruel"/"Hound Dog" with Don't be Cruel getting the most airplay and jukebox hits. His second biggest record was "All Shook Up" both being written by Otis Blackwell and original Elvis recordings.


http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1140

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2942704 08/12/18 06:27 PM
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I think it was Heartbreak Hotel

https://www.graceland.com/elvis/biography/1954_1957.aspx

"January 27, 1956
"Heartbreak Hotel" b/w "I Was the One" is released on vinyl by RCA and sells over 300,000 copies in its first three weeks on the market. It is soon to go to #1 on Billboard’s pop singles chart for eight weeks and hits #1 on the country chart and #5 on the R&B chart. It becomes the first Elvis single to sell over one million copies, thus earning Elvis his very first gold record award." cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2942765 08/13/18 07:43 AM
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Well, I WAS mostly referring to tunes he was more closely associated with, generally speaking(and in the general public's eye/ear, no the fans). Any "greatest" or "best" as far as he's concerned is subjective to whichever FAN voices an opinion on. But not EVERY Presley "hit" relied on all the same vibe, just like not EVERY "hit" The BEATLES had contained "Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!" wink And oddly, concerning the Beatles, I've even heard some from MY generation voice that stereotype.
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2942799 08/13/18 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Is it just me or is the world of guitars dead? Nothing new or exciting! Sure, we talk about new stuff like pedals, modeling amps, and Gibson's woes, but where is the Jimi, Stevie Ray, Django, or whomever that's creating the excitement?


I think where Elvis and The Beatles fit into this thread, is they kept the Guitar World alive back in the 50's and 60's. They were the new and exciting 20 year olds. Elvis was not that much of a guitar player as the John George and Paul (Jimi, SRV, Django, etc.) were. But he sure looked good with one hanging around his neck and got a lot of mileage out of it with the girls. Both Elvis and the Beatles set the world on fire with their music (covers and originals) and set a pretty high bar if you wanted to be a star! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2943018 08/14/18 08:22 AM
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Sho' 'nuff....

And I remember in those Beatles Anthology tapes, mention of the DECCA label rejecting them because THEIR claim was....

"Guitar bands are OUT!" freak facepalm

I think whomever told them that wound up not working for Decca much longer afterwards.... wink

BTW: Elvis would have gotten(and did get) a lot of mileage with the girls with or WITHOUT the guitar hangin' on his neck! wink
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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2943051 08/14/18 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Is it just me or is the world of guitars dead? Nothing new or exciting! Sure, we talk about new stuff like pedals, modeling amps, and Gibson's woes, but where is the Jimi, Stevie Ray, Django, or whomever that's creating the excitement?


I'm reaching all the way back to the beginning of this thread, to try, once again, to make my point -

If we're waiting for someone else to re-invent the mousetrap, might as well give up now.

You want to hear a new sound? Take up a new Instrument, try some new tech, set aside everything familiar, and just have fun again! Remember the first time you plugged in? How about your first effects pedal? Remember how exciting, and yes, how cool it was to hear that sound coming from your fingers! How long has it been since you felt that in your own Music? How long have you been playing pretty much the same material, or type of material, through the same familiar rig?

There's plenty of new Music, just waiting to enter the world, you just have to open the damned doors, and let it in . . .


"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Winston Psmith] #2943121 08/14/18 02:41 PM
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@ Fang, Both the Beatles and Elvis had us young teeny boppers not only wanting to play guitar but copying their hair-do's in order to pick up those chicks. Elvis didn't have to worry about having a guitar around his neck with Scotty Moore doing all the guitar work. You would see Elvis on stage and in the movies faking playing those Scotty Moore licks on an unplugged acoustic while seeing Scotty in the background playing them LOL! cool

@ Winston, I too went back to the original OP to make my point just before you did. My worry was the lack of 20 year old super stars when reading the ages on Fangs birthday posts. I asked the same question Doc put out there: i.e. where are they? +1 there is some good new music and artists out there and we just have to search them out. I for one set the way back machine and get more enjoyment out of playing my guitar by [picking] out older classics going all the way back to the 30's LOL! cool

Last edited by Larryz; 08/14/18 02:42 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2943138 08/14/18 03:29 PM
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“Superstardom” outside of mainstream pop or maybe C&W is becoming increasingly difficult because of the explosion of subgenres in guitar-centric music and the tribalism that seems to go hand in hand with it.

The PLAYERS are there, but the AUDIENCES are balkanized.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2943163 08/14/18 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz


The PLAYERS are there, but the AUDIENCES are balkanized.


Great statement! And without the audience the artist remains obscure.

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2943264 08/15/18 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
@ Fang, Both the Beatles and Elvis had us young teeny boppers not only wanting to play guitar but copying their hair-do's in order to pick up those chicks. Elvis didn't have to worry about having a guitar around his neck with Scotty Moore doing all the guitar work. You would see Elvis on stage and in the movies faking playing those Scotty Moore licks on an unplugged acoustic while seeing Scotty in the background playing them LOL! cool

@ Winston, I too went back to the original OP to make my point just before you did. My worry was the lack of 20 year old super stars when reading the ages on Fangs birthday posts. I asked the same question Doc put out there: i.e. where are they? +1 there is some good new music and artists out there and we just have to search them out. I for one set the way back machine and get more enjoyment out of playing my guitar by [picking] out older classics going all the way back to the 30's LOL! cool


Actually, I got the "bug" to want to learn to play the guitar from the guitar parts on those old SANDY NELSON tunes from the late '50's -early '60's. And too, DUANE EDDY and some of those old bluesmen I used to sneak listens to on my brother's crystal radio put the spark in me too. And then came the folk "craze" and ramped it up too. wink

And too, I noticed lately( in addressing Larry's "where are they?" query) that the guitar in many cases, has become o sort of visual "prop" than an actual played musical instrument. And perhaps(or not) it might go back to something a kid at the plant I worked at said in favor of pre-recorded keyboard bass notes over the playing of an actual bass guitar----

"Why"(he asked) "should I bother messing up my fingers playing one of those things when I can get a just as deep, or even DEEPER bass note on a keyboard and already have the bass-line RECORDED and ready to go?"

And now too, all is available on computer files and all one need do is show up, sing in key and look pretty. In fact, maybe too, the VOCAL is "on file" and all need be done is precise "lip-sync". wink

And +1 on Danny's "Balkanized" idea.
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2943301 08/15/18 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: whitefang

And too, I noticed lately( in addressing Larry's "where are they?" query) that the guitar in many cases, has become o sort of visual "prop" than an actual played musical instrument. And perhaps(or not) it might go back to something a kid at the plant I worked at said in favor of pre-recorded keyboard bass notes over the playing of an actual bass guitar----

"Why"(he asked) "should I bother messing up my fingers playing one of those things when I can get a just as deep, or even DEEPER bass note on a keyboard and already have the bass-line RECORDED and ready to go?"

And now too, all is available on computer files and all one need do is show up, sing in key and look pretty. In fact, maybe too, the VOCAL is "on file" and all need be done is precise "lip-sync". wink

Whitefang


This is not a new concept. It reminds me of our teenage bop shows watching "live" performances on the Dick Clark show. Everyone knew the stars were just lip syncing (especially when the lips were moving at the wrong time) and the instruments were not even plugged in. But we didn't care and we all went along with the gag LOL! We all know when it's not a live performance in the movies and go along with the concept too...I can see the concept on stage by some major acts like Lady GaGa, Madonna, etc. Lots of eye candy and dancing choreography going on up on stage with lots of lip sync. +1 just show up and look pretty. You don't really have to play that guitar. In fact, we turn the sound off and you can't hear the instrument even when the pretty guy or gal is really playing it LOL! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Larryz] #2943396 08/15/18 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
...reminds me of our teenage bop shows watching "live" performances on the Dick Clark show. Everyone knew the stars were just lip syncing (especially when the lips were moving at the wrong time) and the instruments were not even plugged in...

The best "lip syncing" ship ever on Am Bandstand


I been off the scene a minit.
Have we established that the gtr in pop music ain't dead ?
Or do I gotta point out that here even the drummist is gettin' in on it !
[Like Ringo, he's the one w/ the big schnozz]

Last edited by d; 08/15/18 09:48 PM.

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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2943436 08/16/18 08:26 AM
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Well, LARRY---

Remember back in the late '70's, I think it was... when ELO got into all that teouble when fans thought( correctly or not) that they were playing a pre-recorded tape mixed in with the live performance?

I think my previous post up there was a "zoom" to ya since I wasn't referring to what was done on BANDSTAND or such, but relaying what might more recently be found being done on stage.

Note: "Zoom" in my parlance is what I use to indicate that it seems an earlier comment appeared to "zoom" way over someone's head. wink
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2943442 08/16/18 09:50 AM
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I think several comments have touched on a big issue. I was watching an interview with Billy Corgan and he said, that the music industry made two critical errors. I`m reversing the order for my comment but, one was letting MTV take control over breaking new bands. The other was about letting Napster and related services take over delivering music-but as to the first-the fallout from MTV was, that no one could get wide distribution for their music without a video and a video-friendly-i.e. pretty face-translation-stereotype-to go with it. Someone posted an interview with Frank Zappa, where he was saying that the artist is generally responsible for all costs related to making a video. My youtube video took two years to make. Why-making the video didn`t take two years. Paying for it did. Who cares-family members and a few friends who had time on their hands. In that environment, no wonder five people write and produce a song, and the sixth person actually performs it.


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

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www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2943500 08/16/18 01:50 PM
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You didn't "zoom" anything by me Fang...I knew your were not referring to Bandstand. I just stated what it made me think of from back in the day. All you needed was the band and a 45 and some lip sync. There is not much difference or magic in trying to mix in a recording with a live performance in todays music. Sometimes you get some good lip sync and sometimes it fails. Like this one on SNL by Ashlee Simpson:



She forgot that the "L" in SNL stood for "Live" causing SNL to piss off a lot of people...

@ d, good example of everyone knowing the lip sync's were not real on Bandstand...I couldn't watch the whole thing LOL!

@ Skip, I think a lot of the music videos gravitated to sexy gals and guys with pretty faces doing the performances...songwriters and bands (along with guitars) faded into the background. cool




Last edited by Larryz; 08/16/18 02:00 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2943537 08/16/18 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
...I was watching an interview with Billy Corgan and he said, that the music industry made two critical errors... one was letting MTV take control over breaking new bands. The other was about letting Napster and related services

That's astute but the fact is those things were beyond the control of the music industry [note that there's a diff between "bizniz" & "industry"---get that ?]....but that's b/c they were asleep at the wheel.
Now that they've adapted &, decades down the line, rebuilt a model that actually gives them more control & revnue than ever before, the reality is that, for those w/ the perception to realize it, the marketing of music, while still complicated & sometimes costly, is more in the hands of artists than anytime since the early days of recording.

& GTRS, IHMO, IZN'T DEAD grin


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: d / halfnote] #2943607 08/17/18 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: d
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
...I was watching an interview with Billy Corgan and he said, that the music industry made two critical errors... one was letting MTV take control over breaking new bands. The other was about letting Napster and related services

That's astute but the fact is those things were beyond the control of the music industry [note that there's a diff between "bizniz" & "industry"---get that ?]....but that's b/c they were asleep at the wheel.
Now that they've adapted &, decades down the line, rebuilt a model that actually gives them more control & revnue than ever before, the reality is that, for those w/ the perception to realize it, the marketing of music, while still complicated & sometimes costly, is more in the hands of artists than anytime since the early days of recording.

& GTRS, IHMO, IZN'T DEAD grin


Ya but that is concurrent with another reality-for the vast majority of artists no matter how good they are, the one thing that is still under the boot heel of large conglomerates, is distribution. Even with social media at our disposal, getting heard by someone who lives across town and is not your mom, is still difficult. If anything it`s harder than ever. In my building there are groups of college students who come for overseas study. It`s a different group every year. The vast majority of them-the ones advertisers want the most-spend most of their free time gaming, or talking about gaming. It takes a LOT of attention-grabbing-like getting arrested, or having the president call you a jackass (take a bow Kanye), to get consumers to notice you. In other words, it`s easier than ever to have your own music empire-within the confines of your living space.


Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

Skipsounds on Soundclick:
www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2943617 08/17/18 08:41 AM
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S'OK Larry. Just havin' a bit of fun. But, DID you (or anyone else) recall that ELO flap? I remember it causing a BIG "Stir". Cost them quite a few fans too.

And how many remember that TV show back in the early '80's in which people would come on and have lip sync "competitions"?

And didn't they recently resurrect that concept?

Recall too, that despite any opinions of them, the singing group THREE DOG NIGHT hated the idea of "lip-sync" and whenever they'd appear on BANDSTAND or any other show in which it was common practice, they would clearly intentionally be messing up. wink
Whitefang

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: whitefang] #2943635 08/17/18 10:35 AM
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Post by Doc Pate on less than a minute ago
In my search for a new guitar sound I started with new Jazz guitar players since they tend to push the boundaries.

Stephane Wrembel, "Bistro Fada," Origins. Kurt Rosenwinkel, “Filters,” The Next Step. Julian Lage, “223 Butler,” Gladwell. Lionel Louke, “Tin Man,” Gilfema. Gilad Hekselman, “Prelude to a Kiss,” Hearts Wide Open.


Read more: http://guitarplayersforum.boards.net/thread/543/condition-world-guitar-music?page=2#ixzz5ORRkxJhg

Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2943639 08/17/18 10:55 AM
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Point of fact: musicians didn’t “let” Napster and similar services take over music delivery- many fought them in court. But that essentially pitted them against their so-called fans, who didn’t understand that, while industry contracts were not all that great for artists (generally speaking), free, illegal downloading was worse. Metallica was most notable in their crusade, and people STILL vilify them for that.


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Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #2943641 08/17/18 11:08 AM
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Don't know just what genre' to put Stephan in, but I love it.


Last edited by DocPate; 08/17/18 11:13 AM.
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: skipclone 1] #2943645 08/17/18 11:23 AM
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Read the quote insert's final section for relevant remarks.
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Originally Posted By: d
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
...I was watching an interview with Billy Corgan and he said, that the music industry made two critical errors... one was letting MTV take control over breaking new bands. The other was about letting Napster and related services

That's astute but the fact is those things were beyond the control of the music industry [note that there's a diff between "bizniz" & "industry"---get that ?]....but that's b/c they were asleep at the wheel.
Now that they've adapted &, decades down the line, rebuilt a model that actually gives them more control & revnue than ever before, the reality is that, for those w/ the perception to realize it, the marketing of music, while still complicated & sometimes costly, is more in the hands of artists than anytime since the early days of recording.

& GTRS, IHMO, IZN'T DEAD grin


Ya but that is concurrent with another reality-for the vast majority of artists no matter how good they are, the one thing that is still under the boot heel of large conglomerates, is distribution. Even with social media at our disposal, getting heard by someone who lives across town and is not your mom, is still difficult. If anything it`s harder than ever. In my building there are groups of college students who come for overseas study. It`s a different group every year. The vast majority of them-the ones advertisers want the most-spend most of their free time gaming, or talking about gaming. It takes a LOT of attention-grabbing-like getting arrested, or having the president call you a jackass (take a bow Kanye), to get consumers to notice you. In other words, it`s easier than ever to have your own music empire-within the confines of your living space.

No true unless yer looking at the world through some old fashioned, out-of-date lens. Knowing what I know abt you, Skip, I'm surprised you'd even post that.
There are many ways to generate publicity in today's world & some are almost free.
The prob, for some, is they lack vision beyond what others have done & sometimes they can't even see that.

There is, however, a real prob in that many don't really care abt music.
Sadly we see that even at places such as where we are here, when ppl regularly disdain the new or sometimes just checking out anything beyond their old faves.
Just yesterday someone here that I sincerely admire said they'd never heard of a quite well-known & respected guitarist &, further, had no interest in learning abt them (despite not even knowing what they sounded like ! freak ).

That said, there are ways to generate enough general interest to become a viral sensation.
'member this cat ?


SillY ?
Yes...but them got substance won't end there.


d=halfnote
Re: Is The Guitar World Dead hi [Re: DocPate] #2943652 08/17/18 11:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,711
Originally Posted By: DocPate
Don't know just what genre' to put Stephan in, but I love it.



freak freak freak
Have you never heard Django Reinhardt ?!
File under: Gtr Music / Gypsy Jazz


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