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#2939701 - 07/26/18 02:39 PM If you must gig with just one board...
AnotherScott Offline
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Picking up from the "Studiologic Numa Compact 2x" thread, I was asked what I would use as my only keyboard in a one-keyboard setup, so I thought I'd post here rather than derail that thread. (This was also touched on in the "My search for the Dream All-in One keyboard is over" thread).

I've written too many times about the reasons I prefer to have 2 (or more) boards on a gig. But there are occasions that really call out for trying to use just one board, like...

...multi-band gigs where you have to be on and off in 5 minutes

...some rehearsals

...gigs you're getting to via public transit

...gigs where you can't get your vehicle remotely close to where you're playing and you need to try to keep the load-in to one trip

So let's assume you need the usual range of b&b sounds with some split/layer functionality, the great "middle." (As opposed to people who can do a gig with just one sound all night, be it piano, rhodes, B3; or at the other extreme, people doing prog rock requiring fast switching among a zillion sounds.) Also, while I might set up custom splits/layers in advance for some songs, I put a premium on being able to do simple 2-way splits on the fly with the ability to easily choose which sound I want for each side, and alter its volume and octave if need be. That is, if I don't have the luxury of 2 keyboards, I'd like to get as close as possible to looking at the one keyboard as if it were two independent keyboards, grabbing LH and RH sounds on the fly as I need them without necessarily having to have it all pre-planned.

Personally, I'm putting a weight limit of 30 lbs on it. Your muscles may vary.

In my case, if I'm going to use just one board, I'm usually going to stick with a non-hammer action. While I prefer the feel of hammer action for piano of course, my typical band gigs don't require a lot of nuance in my piano expressivity, and so I'd rather play piano on a semi-weighted than organ on hammer action boards. It also gives me more lower weight options. (Okay, there are some hammer action boards that aren't too horrible for organ... but I think they're all over my 30 lb limit.)

Here are the ones I like. For the most part, I'm focussing here on functionality rather than sounds, because while I have preferences, any can generally give me the sounds I need to get through a gig or rehearsal. Also, some of the shortcomings some of these boards have--both sonically and functionally--could be addressed by adding an iPad, if you can spare the setup time and don't need to simply plug in and play. Nicely, all of these have Line Inputs, so you can add iPad sounds if you want without a whole bunch of other wiring (i.e. a mixer), though they vary in how well you can call up iPad sounds from their front panels or mix-and-match those sounds with the board's own.

Nord Stage 3 Compact

+ 73 keys (and at 22 lbs, nicely light for 7x), aftertouch, drawbars, synth controls, custom samples (may give you access to some sounds you'd otherwise need a second keyboard for), seamless sound transitions (something you may not think as much about when switching from playing one board to another, but can bite you more when you try to duplicate the same kind of sound change on a single board). Good MIDI functionality to integrate iPad sounds. A weakness is the limitations on just how easily you can grab which sounds you want and toss them just where you want on the keyboard, it's not so good for mixing and matching sounds on the fly. Some combinations are easy, but many combinations require too much scrolling and/or button pushing. So you probably want to make an extra effort to have your commonly used splits set up in advance. There are also limitations on the seamless sound transitions (like oddly, working when you switch *between* programs, but not when you switch sounds *within* a program). Oh, and it's pricey.

Kurzweil Artis 7

+ 76 keys (27.25 lbs), 9 sliders that can function as drawbars, seamless sound transitions (whether switching individual programs or complete multis, though there may be fx glitches, and it won't work with most organ sounds). Good MIDI functionality to integrate iPad sounds. Button matrix provides fast access to all sounds. Very easy to do 2-way split/layers on the fly, and supports 4-way with some advance work. (ETA: possibly more if you really dig into the editing, based on the discussion in the SP6 thread.) Better than the Nord for mixing and matching sounds on the fly. Reasonably quick and easy to get any sound for either side of your split and control its volume and octave. Some of those functions aren't as quick and easy as they should be, but it's workable. Specifically, the quick Split function gives you easy sound/octave selection of your LH sound, but you can't swap the controls to do the same for your RH sound. That more commonly needed mid-song ability to change your RH sound takes more steps (and is not specifically documented in the manual), but it's not bad once you figure it out. (Alternatively, if you have splits you use all the time, you can just save them as recallable multis, and the switches will generally still be smooth because of the seamless sound transitions.) A weakness is in the real-time controls... as soon as you're splitting/layering sounds, by default, the first 4 sliders become volume controls for up to 4 sounds/zones, and the other 5 are a little unpredictable (or may do nothing), you have to know (or define) what you want them to do for the particular combination of sounds you're using. It's actually pretty flexible, but requires some advance scouting/configuration... it's not like the Nord where you can combine an organ sound and a synth sound and instantly have 9 drawbars and a full set of synth controls. As I said in the "Dream" thread, "Kurz is better at quick patch selection, and mixing and matching sounds on the fly (once you figure out how to do it). Nord is better at tweaking the sounds in real time... lots of controls, all instantly and ever-presently available with no advance setup needed."

Roland Juno DS61

+ For superquick stuff, this is the smallest/lightest (11.75 lbs) board that's well designed for splits, which helps make a 61-key board tolerable. You can easily pick whichever sound you want for either side of the split at any time, and (especially valuable on a 61) change the octave of just that sound on the fly as needed. Also there are dedicated volume sliders for the upper and lower sounds. Very easy to do 2-way split/layers on the fly, and supports up to 16-way with some advance work. It also loads custom samples, and has seamless sound transitions (whether switching individual patches or complete performances, though there may be fx glitches). No drawbar organ function, and the weakest action of the bunch, but if I'm in a situation where I need to play more than one sound at a time, I think it's the lightest board that could get me through about any gig or rehearsal without too much pain. Runs on batteries, too. Also a great budget alternative, it's cheap. Oh, and patch selection is good, with 100 Favorites (10 banks of 10), plus numeric keypad patch recall, plus the ability to set up groups of 16 sounds and switch among them with the pads. (There are only 8 pads... you hit them with the Shift button to get sounds 9-16.) BTW, I like the DS better than the FA.

and maybe Casio MZ-X300/MZ-X500

+ decent enough built in speakers that you could arguably use them for an unplugged rehearsal or super-casual gig (say, a friend's party), plus runs on batteries. 16.75 lbs. Loads custom samples. Seamless sound transitions. Very easy to do 2-way split/layers on the fly, and can also easily add layers to either or both sides of the split (or with advance work, the hexlayer function can give you up to 24(!) split/layered sounds on the 500). Good ability to switch the sounds of each side of a split and their octaves independently. Kind of has clonewheel in it, but... ehh. One thing that's a bit goofy is, if you're on the screen that lets you select your split/layered sounds and their octaves, there are no volume controls available for the various parts. That requires a click, a swipe, and another click. (Man, why didn't they at least put the Mixer tab on the first screen instead of the second??) Luckily, from there, it's only one click to get back to the other screen. But unless there's some other method I missed, quick volume adjustments of parts is a bit awkward.* Weak on MIDI functionality and real-time controls. Still evaluating this one. Overall, I'd probably take the cheaper, lighter DS61 unless I wanted the speakers, but there's a lot of cool stuff about this board, and I haven't even touched its arranger functions which are what the board is most designed for. BTW, I think its action is pretty decent, but the velocity response on the acoustic piano sounds seems jumpy. I think it may be at least as much about how Casio programs the piano sounds as about the action, because I felt the same way about the PX5S, if not to the same extent. And the EPs are better.

* = ETA: I've been playing more with this, and there are other ways to do this, with different trade-offs. It's not bad.

ETA: also Numa Compact 2 (or forthcoming 2X)

+ 88 keys, 15.6 lbs, aftertouch, plus on the 2X, drawbars and some synth controls. Pretty easy on-the-fly split/layer (2 sounds max), slightly hampered by having to use the scroll wheel to navigate to a sound, that made a little less cumbersome via category buttons and simply by virtue of the fact that, within a category, there just aren't too many sounds to choose from. Adjusting volume for each of two sounds is easy. Adjusting octave for just one sound is a bit awkward, but not prohibitive. (You also don't need to do it as often on an 88 as you do on a 61, but it's still useful.) Seamless sound transitions. No audio in like the others, though the 2X will have audio over USB. It lags in custom patch recall, which requires scrolling through your list of 100. Bonus: it's cheap!


If I wanted a weighted action single board, I'd probably look first at Nord Stage 3HP 76 and Kurzweil SP6, though I've never actually played either of them.


Edited by AnotherScott (07/27/18 10:18 AM)
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#2939717 - 07/26/18 04:07 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
llatham Offline
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I"m not like you guys - I only own 1 good synth per decade - or more years so I often only have but 1 synth.

I was using a 2 Tier setup with an old D-5 and SC88 with a controller and when the D-5 finally gave up, got an FA-06.

The primary reason was it was actually quicker for me to switch "manuals" to change sounds in some songs than it was to press some remote button on the keyboard.

In fact, I'm playing one of those songs right now so I actually have to drop out a beat in order to change in time. It's like a page turn with both hands going - you can't do it so easily with your nose.

I also play guitar mainly, so keys is always a secondary thing for me.

I just joined a new band and I swore that I was going to KISS. Single keyboard only, 1 tier stand only.

I have, Stand, Keyboard, Power Supply, Sustain and Mod pedal (I got an expression pedal but not going to use it all the time), instrument cable, and direct box and let the PA guys handle it from there (though it they have a better direct box - and they probably do - I'll use theirs).

For my guitar rig, I pared it down to 2 guitars, one in drop D that I can also use as a backup to the main guitar (few drop D songs), cables, pedalboard with only 2 pedals, amp, amp stand.

Oh, and 2 guitar stands and my stage fan.

That's all I'm carrying without making consistently over $300 a show.

I also swore when I started this - like guitar where I usually use 3 different drive types, with 3 different amounts of saturation each, and a multi-fx pedal with 3 delays, chorus, flange, phase, wah, leslie, and a special effect (varies per patch) but I pared that down to 1 OD with two settings and one boost (Clean, Dirty, Distortion, boost all) I would do the same for keys.

I picked 1 piano sound worked, 1 organ sound that worked, 1 EP sound that worked, 1 clav sound (the latter 2 of which I use rarely) and a few synth patches, strings pad, brass pad, etc. that get used on specific songs.

I wasn't going to do like before where I have 4 or 5 organ sounds alone just to get them closer to the record.

I've got one Studio Set with, at this point, only 12 of the 16 pads used for sounds (I used the pads to switch sounds live because they're easier to see and not miss when changing quickly).

2 of those are the exact same piano just in a different octave.

This got rid of:

2 tier stand (harder to lug)

Controller

Sound module

Associated power supplies, cables, and setup time.

But I was in a spot where it took me about 45 minutes to set up both my keyboard and guitar rig, and tear it all down again.

And yeah - you get those gigs where you have to be on and off in 15 minutes while the other band is trying to get off or on in the same 15 minutes (I hate those).

The first gig I played with this band was like that and I was able to set everything up in record time (I was able to stage stuff to be ready to go though).

Honestly, I think a DS-61 would be fine for what I'm doing.

I do like the 16 pads to get to sounds quickly though but I could manage with the DS61.


There is the possibility I might have to trigger some samples in this band, but again, I'm not really going to go there if the pay is not there. So far it has been but that just got me to play both Keys and Guitar when initially I was only going to play guitar.

Also, what we're doing doesn't really demand more than just "the basics" but I'm really on the KISS track.

The FA handles it fine, and since that's what I have, that's what I have to use.

But if we had to use backline, I could probably get by with anything that had Basic GM sounds on it in modern samples.

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#2939719 - 07/26/18 04:31 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: llatham]
EricBarker Offline
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Registered: 07/25/18
Posts: 208
Yeah, I've always been primarily a one-board guy. I come from a piano background, so 88weighted always feels best to me, even for synth stuff. With an 88 key, you can do any kind of splits or patch changes to get multiple sounds at once, so for the way I work, I've never had much use for having multiple boards. It takes a little more setup behind the scenes but it means less equipment to haul, and it keeps everything together in one neat package. I like really bonding to my instrument, not having a bunch of different ones for every specific need. With switching to laptop and software, I've been able to take things even further.

That said, I totally get alternate controllers. I also have a Seaboard, a keytar, and just ordered a Mojo. But they're all optional, and I can strip it down to just my main board for smaller gigs.

For many years, Jordan Rudess was a one-board player. I really came into the scene in the late 90s, and that workflow made sense to me then, I got many of my workflow ideas from reading his Dregs and early Dream Theater articles. Not my favorite keyboardist (even in Dream Theater), but a lot of his workflow ideas made sense to how I like to operate.

But I'm a computer geek. I'm totally cool spending a lot of time behind the scenes pre-setting my setup so I'm cool with that. I can understand a lot of musicians aren't into that.
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#2939731 - 07/26/18 05:29 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: llatham]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: llatham
I"m not like you guys - I only own 1 good synth per decade - or more years so I often only have but 1 synth.

Yeah, I'm a junkie, I own all those boards. But guess in a way the point of the post was that any *one* of those would be adequate for me to get through most of my gigs.

I had an FA-07 briefly. It's a perfectly good board, and it would work, just not as ideally (from my perspective) as the others. In my case, almost everything I needed it to do, the Kurz did as well or better, except for the travel weight, where the Kurz added 9 lbs. For me, the 9 lbs got me 9 sliders (and related percussion controls, etc.) for organ, an action I preferred, better patch remain, wheels instead of lever (personal preference). Internal power supply is a nice perk as well, though not as important to me as it is to some other folk here. And while each had some sounds I preferred over the equivalent sound in the other, overall the Kurz sounds were better for me (EP, organ, and mellotron come to mind). But I recognize that the FA-07 has its advantages as well, besides lower weight (and lower price)... built-in sequencer, trigger pads, aux out, on-board editing (with it's nicer big, color screen). Those just weren't as important to me (i.e. I've never used sequences or trigger pads in my gigs).

But I still wanted something super-light, so I started looking at the 61s to see if any could do what I wanted, which is what brought me to the DS. The FA has a ton of stuff the DS does not, but the DS had a few advantages of its own that outweighed the others, for my use. i.e. better patch remain (works on all sounds, including when switching performances, which are its equivalent of the FA studio sets), custom sample loading (which I admit I have yet to use!), and better two way split facility, between the ability to easily switch the octave of one side of a split on the fly, and the dedicated sliders for the two sounds of a 2-way split or layer. There were also some other more minor ones, like preferring its method of number pad entry (it's a quick toggle repurpose of the Favorites buttons, as opposed to having to change the mode of the pads), more elaborate vocoder/vocal processing, and an effects structure that I think is preferable for live performance (the FA has 16 effects units whereas the DS has only three, but the FA permits only one effect per sound while the DS lets you gang up its three effects... the FA approach makes more sense for sequencing, and of course, the FA has a sequencer, but the DS gives you more to work with when you're playing just one or two sounds at a time, as is more typical when gigging).

I think the DS often gets overlooked because people may see it as a cheaper, lesser version of an FA, but there are so many differences underneath, each really does a whole bunch of things that the other doesn't. I mean, it's easy to look at them and say, "oh, 16 pads vs. 8" but that misses the point that the pads on the two boards largely do entirely different things! Even the sound sets are different, i.e. the DS sound set is not a subset of the FA sound set. (Though the non-Supernatural FA (XV-5080 based) sounds are also available for the DS from axial, whereas the DS sound set is not available for the FA!) Anyway, they're both good, but have significantly different feature sets, and the DS made more sense for me.
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#2939749 - 07/26/18 07:30 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
ProfD Offline
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My all in one single KB solution would be a Nord Stage 3 (NS3).

IMO, the NS3 is perfect combination of electromechanical emulations, VA synth and real-time control in an 88-note KB.

As some of you already know, I'm not a fan of this aspect of it but otherwise, the NS3 definitely has the right features and functionality. cool
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#2939750 - 07/26/18 07:42 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: ProfD]
CowboyNQ Offline
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I have used and still occasionally use a Krome 61 for one-board shows.

I prefer to use at least two 'boards so I can have a decent action to play piano on, but the one-board option is sometimes necessitated by:

- having a smallish set (45 min or less) combined with a lightning fast changeover requirement, as already suggested by Scott in his OP.

- the need to use very little real estate to fit in the performance space.

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#2939760 - 07/26/18 08:32 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: CowboyNQ]
Synthaholic Offline
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I appreciate the thread, Scott. My criteria differs a bit. Iím looking for very light weight, 76 or 88 keys, top notch synth action or semi-weighted, extensive MIDI control of rack modules, lots of user memory for Multi/Combi stuff. Good sounds are a plus, but not the priority.

I thought the Numa was going to be it, except the MIDI control looks lame. But I may just have to adapt to limited splits. Or wait for the NumaCompact 3.
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#2939761 - 07/26/18 08:37 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Synthaholic]
cphollis Offline
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Well, if I had to pick only one board to do battle with, it'd be the NS3 88. I play 60% piano, 30% organ and 10% other stuff. The live situation for me is very fluid, so being able to tweak stuff, dial up new patches, create new in real time -- yeah, that'd be my board.

If I could ever learn to play soulful piano passages on an unweighted board (highly unlikely) I'd do the NS3 compact. Which I play now with a weighted controller.

There is a very good chance that I score the new Prophet-X in a month or two. My goal is not to have it be the do-all board, but it's got the specs. I'll let you know.
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#2939772 - 07/26/18 09:08 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: cphollis]
J. Dan Offline
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The title reminded me when I dislocated my thumb and had pins inserted. The very next weekend I played one-handed. Redid lots of patches. There are pics floating around somewhere.
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#2939775 - 07/26/18 09:19 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: J. Dan]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Either the Kronos (61 keys) or the Forte (76), depending on the gig.

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#2939776 - 07/26/18 09:28 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: cphollis]
Moonglow Offline
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+1 for the Nord Stage 3 88. I prefer to play organ on weighted keys than piano on non-weighted keys. I would also need an iPad for more robust strings, brass, etc., to get through the gigs I do (e.g., Korg Module with Triton expansion).
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#2939777 - 07/26/18 10:25 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Moonglow]
MathOfInsects Offline
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I own my "just one board" board: the NS3 Compact.
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#2939781 - 07/26/18 11:22 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: MathOfInsects]
CountFosco Offline
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Registered: 05/28/18
Posts: 61
How would the DMC-122 + Gemini fit into this mix? (does it count as a single board?) OK it misses the weight spec, but right now I'm wavering between it and an Artis 7 as an all in one solution for my second band (funk covers).

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#2939792 - 07/27/18 03:02 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: CountFosco]
stoken6 Offline
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I play in a classic rock/soul covers outfit, and have had to play festivals (45m set, 10min load-in, 5m tear-down, 200 yard walk across a field to the stage), and Nord Stage 2 (SW) was perfect.

The other band I play in is a disco/soul/funk covers band and I think I'm simply covering with them too much to be able to do it with just one board. I need a full 76 downstairs (usually EP, some AP) plus a little split+layer upstairs (strings, brass, synth, bells, harmonica etc.) I've done festivals with these guys, but needed two boards - my Yamaha Piaggero NP30 (controller only) gives me just enough extra to get through the gig.

Cheers, Mike.
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#2939793 - 07/27/18 03:11 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: stoken6]
CountFosco Offline
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Registered: 05/28/18
Posts: 61
Originally Posted By: stoken6
The other band I play in is a disco/soul/funk covers band and I think I'm simply covering with them too much to be able to do it with just one board.


Exactly. Which I can manage with an Electro plus synth, the two keyboards are almost obligatory. But having one rig to cover two bands, with the constant breaking down and setting up is getting a bit much. I'm happy enough to stay semi weighted for all sounds, I have a weighted option if it's really necessary, think I might just get by with 2x 61 keys (never tried before), but that DMC-122 seems like a pretty good compromise.

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#2939794 - 07/27/18 03:27 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: CountFosco]
Phil Aiken Offline
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Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1692
Forte 7 for me, with Ventilator pedal for organ.
Much better pianos and electric pianos than Nord to me. Organ not as good, but with the Vent, pretty solid. Bells and whistles all covered.

That said - for my standard (2 keyboard) small rock rig, which is an electric piano (either VV or Wurly, depending on the gig) with a digital organ-centric board on top, I may replace my Mojo 61 with a Nord to cover more non-organ ground. I also like for the top board to be Wurlitzer 7300 combo organ, but again, depends on the gig.


Edited by Beethree (07/27/18 03:28 AM)
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#2939795 - 07/27/18 03:29 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: CountFosco]
bjosko Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 194
Loc: Denmark
I think the DMC/Gemini combo are a great board as a one board soloution, have done it myself a couple times.

It are great with two manuals with different sounds so close together.

A few minor issues:
You will not get the best AP, but fully workable in a rock/blues band. EP, organ, strings, brass and so on are great.
You will need to take your time to set up and program the patches and effect-layout( and memorize it), since there are no visual feedback of what you are doing.
A real time display that shows you what program or effect you're in would be amazing.
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#2939801 - 07/27/18 04:01 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: bjosko]
Al Quinn Offline
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Registered: 08/13/14
Posts: 1211
Loc: Center Moriches, NY
Great write up Scott! Thanks.

Do you have any tips on how to try out keyboards? I canít find a store with a good selection and the online try and return if I donít like it approach gets expensive. Do you know of a store with a good collection of keyboards?
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#2939809 - 07/27/18 04:36 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Al Quinn]
hardware Offline
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I always liked the challenge of covering parts with a single controller.
D70 and 4 x Roland S760s was my 4 Zone single board rig pre Gigastudio PC/Scope DSP Cards.
Been using several 2 and 3 tier rigs since then.

Just recently went to single tier rig, 8 zone 4 scene set up.
Loving it.

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#2939812 - 07/27/18 05:05 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: hardware]
DanL Offline
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For me it really depends on the gig. The only band I'm in that 1 board could cover doesn't need any complex sounds, so a NS3 would be perfect. Everything else I need capabilities the Nord can't handle. Complex splits and layers. Sample playback. Sounds that the Nord can't do well. Etc.

If I didn't play a lot of organ in my party band I might be able to get away with my FA08 or another workstation type board. A Kronos could cover the organ to a degree, but then it's a matter of real estate with splits.
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#2939815 - 07/27/18 05:12 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: bjosko]
Mighty Ferguson Offline
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Originally Posted By: CountFosco
Exactly. Which I can manage with an Electro plus synth, the two keyboards are almost obligatory. But having one rig to cover two bands, with the constant breaking down and setting up is getting a bit much. I'm happy enough to stay semi weighted for all sounds, I have a weighted option if it's really necessary, think I might just get by with 2x 61 keys (never tried before), but that DMC-122 seems like a pretty good compromise.

I'm in a similar situation... I switched from a rig made up of a Kronos on top of a 76 key controller for a more modern/mainstream cover band to just a DMC-122/Gemini for a funk/soul band. It's working really well for me, and the setup is much easier. I've never had a real two manual organ before, so it's a lot of fun to play. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions, as it sounds like a similar use case.

Originally Posted By: bjosko
A real time display that shows you what program or effect you're in would be amazing.

I agree with this... the UI on the DMC-122 is the weakest part of it, so I'm driving all DMC setup changes and Gemini patch changes from an iPad with the Setlist Maker app. It's working really well for me.

So if it counts as an answer to the question, the DMC/Gemini combo as a single board is working really well for me. If it doesn't count because of the dual manuals, I feel like I could sufficiently cover any gig with the Kronos.
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#2939816 - 07/27/18 05:23 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Mighty Ferguson]
ITGITC? Offline
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#2939818 - 07/27/18 06:03 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: ITGITC?]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Kurz PC3. That's the specific reason I made the purchase is because I wanted to gig with one keyboard. After evaluating several alternatives including the Nord E3 at the time (7 years ago) I decided the Kurz was the way to go. Today I'd probably go with a Forte 7. If Guido ever comes out with a 7x key controller, with 9 drawbars and with the Gemini built in THAT will be the one for me but I don't see this ever happening in my lifetime hitt
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#2939843 - 07/27/18 08:00 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Delaware Dave]
Stokely Offline
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I'm down to one, my pc361. I don't do much in the way of splits (though I probably should)--I just put things in the setup menus that make it easy to switch patches on the fly. We don't do exact covers anyway.

The issue I have with one board is: what if it dies on you. My pc361 (the same one!) refused to boot at one gig and I'm sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop now (don't feel right selling it for any $ either and having it happen to someone else). It has a screen flicker which may or may not be related as well. Anyway, for peace of mind our singer lets me tote her little Roland juno D to gigs, I leave it in the car generally. Worst case, I'd run out, grab it and set it up and limp through the gig with that thing.

Having one board is soooooo easy, no mixer needed and my setup is literally like 2 minutes smile


Edited by Stokely (07/27/18 08:01 AM)

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#2939884 - 07/27/18 10:54 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Stokely]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: CowboyNQ
I have used and still occasionally use a Krome 61 for one-board shows.

I've never tried a Krome. I did look at the Kross when I was evaluating the DS61 (liked that it was smaller/lighter), but it really falls down on on the fly splits. I could not find an easy way to select a different RH sound while continuing to play the same LH sound, or easily adjust the volume or octave of the RH sound. Maybe Krome could handle this better. (Also, even the workaround of setting up your most commonly needed splits ahead of time was hampered by the lack of patch remain, i.e. you couldn't switch from one LH/RH saved split to another mid-song without an audible glitch.) But if you don't care about splits (i.e. aren't even trying to maintain some of your "two board" functionality), tons of boards can work well. Playing one sound at a time is something every board is pretty adept at. ;-)

Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
I appreciate the thread, Scott. My criteria differs a bit. Iím looking for very light weight, 76 or 88 keys, top notch synth action or semi-weighted, extensive MIDI control of rack modules, lots of user memory for Multi/Combi stuff. Good sounds are a plus, but not the priority.

I thought the Numa was going to be it, except the MIDI control looks lame. But I may just have to adapt to limited splits. Or wait for the NumaCompact 3.

Kurzweil Artis 7 comes closest to what you want. What you lose compared to the NC2X is aftertouch, full 88 keys, super light weight (but not too heavy), speakers, USB power, and of course, it's pricier. But in terms of your wish list, you do get the much more extensive MIDI functionality (including full 4 zones and a greater number of programmable controls), and 512 User memories (256 Program, 256 Multi) vs 100 on the Numa (and you can get to them with direct button access instead of a scroll knob). I think the lighter FA-07 and Krome 73 support 16 MIDI zones, but you lose the 9 sliders.

But you reminded me about just how capable the NC2 is, and I edited my OP to include it. As for waiting for a NC3, I wouldn't hold my breath. They haven't even shipped the NC2X yet. No idea if or when a 3 will come or what features it would have. Specifically regarding your wish for more than two zones, their entire interface/control scheme is based on 2 zones, more zones would mean a complete redesign.

Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
Either the Kronos (61 keys) or the Forte (76), depending on the gig.

Kronos 61 doesn't work so well for me in this case, because it's weak at on-the-fly splits. Even with the new(ish) Quick Split feature, that's really designed to help you more easily set up Combis in advance of the gig, and isn't really a great live performance tool, because seamless sound transition doesn't work on that screen, i.e. changing your RH sound will glitch your LH sound.

Originally Posted By: CountFosco
How would the DMC-122 + Gemini fit into this mix? (does it count as a single board?)

I don't know, but I have also thought about how a Gemini module could enhance a one-board rig at very little additional travel weight.

Originally Posted By: Beethree
Forte 7 for me, with Ventilator pedal for organ.
Much better pianos and electric pianos than Nord to me. Organ not as good, but with the Vent, pretty solid. Bells and whistles all covered.

Forte vs. Nord is similar to my comparison up top between Artis and Nord. Forte is nice, I stuck with Artis 7 because of weight.

Originally Posted By: Al Quinn
Do you have any tips on how to try out keyboards? I canít find a store with a good selection and the online try and return if I donít like it approach gets expensive. Do you know of a store with a good collection of keyboards?

I wish. In-store selection just keeps getting weaker. And yeah, UPS has gotten a lot pricier for keys than it used to be, with dimensional weight. But I guess having to buy and expensively ship back is the price we pay for not buying more at the brick and mortar stores in the first place. But it is nice to have weeks to play with a board and really decide if it's what you want. You kind of have to look at the UPS as a rental fee.

Originally Posted By: DanL
A Kronos could cover the organ to a degree, but then it's a matter of real estate with splits.

Kronos LS?

Originally Posted By: Stokely
The issue I have with one board is: what if it dies on you.

Yes, that's one reason I prefer to have two boards. Especially on a gig that would really be a disaster if you had to bail. I also like the added real estate for more sounds with less switching, not worrying about crossing split points accidentally, etc. And more often than not, different actions for piano and organ. But as I said up top, sometimes one can make sense.
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#2939891 - 07/27/18 11:29 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
ProfD Offline
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The hypothetical is what would be ideal *if* you had to gig with one KB only.

If you're really worried about a single KB dying, keep a spare Yamaha PSR or some type of Casio in the trunk (boot) of your vehicle. laugh cool
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#2939893 - 07/27/18 11:36 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Dave Bryce]
Outkaster Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
Either the Kronos (61 keys) or the Forte (76), depending on the gig.

dB


This
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#2939899 - 07/27/18 11:51 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
Synthaholic Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

Nord Stage 3 Compact

+ 73 keys (and at 22 lbs, nicely light for 7x), aftertouch, drawbars, synth controls, custom samples (may give you access to some sounds you'd otherwise need a second keyboard for), seamless sound transitions (something you may not think as much about when switching from playing one board to another, but can bite you more when you try to duplicate the same kind of sound change on a single board). Good MIDI functionality to integrate iPad sounds. A weakness is the limitations on just how easily you can grab which sounds you want and toss them just where you want on the keyboard, it's not so good for mixing and matching sounds on the fly. Some combinations are easy, but many combinations require too much scrolling and/or button pushing. So you probably want to make an extra effort to have your commonly used splits set up in advance. There are also limitations on the seamless sound transitions (like oddly, working when you switch *between* programs, but not when you switch sounds *within* a program). Oh, and it's pricey.


Even at $3600, no user-defined split points. See what I mean?

Sound On Sound:

Regrettably, and in common with previous models, there are only 10 pre-determined split positions so, if you want to play a synth bass sound from the bottom of the keyboard to G3, and a piano from Ab3 upward, you canít. The best you can do is select the nearest split point at either E3/F3 or B3/C4, which might be acceptable, but equally may not
.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/clavia-nord-stage-3
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#2939902 - 07/27/18 12:07 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Synthaholic]
Adan Offline
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I've never really looked at the Roland DS61, but Scott's writeup makes me think I may have overlooked a good rehearsal/backup keyboard. I had a VR09 for awhile but the limitations on effects in multi-timbral setups was, for me, a fatal flaw. Maybe the DS61 doesn't have those same problems.

I have a gig coming up soon that's one of these one-off public festival multi-band 45-minute slot thingys. There can be so much chaos and slop associated with those gigs, trying to do it with more than a minimal rig can feel not worth it. I'd love to have my best keys for sounds and feel, but having been through this so many times, I know I'll probably be more satisfied overall if I bring one lightweight board.
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#2939903 - 07/27/18 12:11 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Synthaholic]
MotiDave Offline
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I single-board gig with either my ol' Motif XF7 or its baby brother travel substitute - MOXF6. Good all around board, MOXF6 has a quick split function though I don't use it - as I pre-program a performance (multi) for every song.

If MOXF had been out when i bought XF7, i probably would not have XF7. sonically equivalent in live use - biggest drawback is smaller screen requires more menu-diving to get to the same function or parameter. The element, voice, performance, song editing is otherwise identical. It has the Motif XF waveform soundset, with a few added. Its right there in price to feature (value) with Krome, FA-xx, etc - the $1500-ish all purpose segment.

It is good at AP (many 3rd party library options with flash board expansion for differing taste and need), EP, natural instruments such as brass, wind, string, mallet/perc. etc. Decent at synth though not very editable (with my skills) but there are plenty of 3rd party synth samples and voices that get you close to somewhere you're going if a preset can't get you there. I've been able to replicate any synth sound I have needed, and I did a Cars band for awhile. People universally commented all of my tones were spot on. Lots of arps etc if thats your thing. Built in sequencer, that I don't use.

MOXF6 comes in at a tidy 16 lbs, you're looking at $1600-ish to add the Flash card (highly recommend). I put my MOXF6 in a Skb4214w case and it flies for no over-size/weight charge.

key caveat is it is not good at B3 if thats a primary need. I get by on a few songs without problem, nobody complains or cringes as in a live context they can't comparing A/B/Z ... but the experts here all know. not the choice for a B3 blues player. there are 3rd party libraries that improve preset B3 options significantly from poor to passable. passable is really the upper limit imo.

i read alot are perplexed by the Yamaha interface. i have it down pat to the level i use it and I don't have another board to compare learning curve slope - so I don't know better.
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#2939912 - 07/27/18 12:40 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: MotiDave]
Electro Fan Offline
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I am on the verge of buying the NS3 73 Compact to replace my Kronos 61 in my gig rig. I usually pair the Kronos 61 with a Px-5s, but the idea of the one board setup is very appealing to me. Unlike others who have mentioned that certain gigs in which small pay is a factor in bringing just one board, I do prison ministry, so pay is not an issue. However, many of the facilities that we play at require a lengthy check in process as all of our gear must be searched and accounted before can setup. We often have an hour to setup and run a quick sound check. We are a 6 piece band , so we have our share of gear. We only usually play one hour long concert, then it is break down and pack up. I am often the last to be ready and we have to do our own connection to the snake to reach the PA.

It seemed to me that the NS3ís weight, real estate, focus on organ and APís would be a perfect fit, but I would at some point need to sell the Kronos to defray the costs. Some of the posts here suggested the Kronos 61 would be there one board setup, but wondered how they adjusted to the 61 Keys? I wish the 73 key Kronos was lighter and has unweighted Keys.
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#2939913 - 07/27/18 12:44 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Synthaholic]
MathOfInsects Offline
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Originally Posted By: Synthaholic

Even at $3600, no user-defined split points. See what I mean?

Sound On Sound:

Regrettably, and in common with previous models, there are only 10 pre-determined split positions so, if you want to play a synth bass sound from the bottom of the keyboard to G3, and a piano from Ab3 upward, you canít. The best you can do is select the nearest split point at either E3/F3 or B3/C4, which might be acceptable, but equally may not
.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/clavia-nord-stage-3


I agree, it's insane that Nord is sticking with their predefined split points. HOWEVER....they also have a very elegant feature that allows for crossfades between the adjacent regions--large, small, or none. Even with user-defined splits, I would find this feature attractive. Without them, what it does is gives (for example) bass to *about* that Ab, and piano from about that same Ab, with decreasing cross-fading as you get farther from the split point.
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#2939919 - 07/27/18 01:24 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: MathOfInsects]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Serious piano?, a dedicated 88... ditto for organ.. So I have given up on these two extremes.
In the real world of many compromises... I am gradually making friends with my now, 5 year old Tyros 4. Many many useable sounds. Probably the best acoustic guitars on the planet.
The best accordions!! Don't mock... I made some nice coin with these accordion sounds, when I subbed for a real virtuoso accordion player. I am not a virtuoso, but the sounds of the tyros were good enough.
I have not looked much into the synth sounds but there are many many useful pads and solo synth sounds.
decent strings
I finally found a piano I can live with... a rock piano!
EP's are a sore spot for me.. because I am fussy about it.. but yamaha does a decent job here.
decent basses
organs just ok.
pipe organs for a wedding are passable

But the big draw towards the T4, is the drum loops. There are many 100's of useful drum grooves.
And the followup to the Tyros 4 is the Genos which has much improved drum sounds.
Stevie Wonder uses this technology... a few years back, I was told Stevie owned 2 tyros 5's.
I am sure he has a Genos by now.
Genos has incorporated some of the sounds of Montage.. and has 256 polyphony.
A learning curve to be sure... but this keyboard can do all but the very specific things
88 piano
and organ clones.
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#2939921 - 07/27/18 01:36 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: MathOfInsects]
ajstan Offline
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The NS3 88 is my single board solution. So far I've been able to create all the sounds I need to use except for velocity switching samples like horns. The Mod Envelope in the synth section provides for sharper attacks when samples are played at a higher velocity.

As for split points, just about every song I have programmed has one or two. While there are some songs where moving the split an extra key or two would be helpful, I'd gladly trade the flexibility of user defined split points for the LED lights indicating the active split points. I'd hate to have to remember where I put the splits on each song, and I wouldn't think that Nord would add 76 more LEDs to cover every possible option, so the fixed split points are not an issue for me, but can understand how it could be for others.

FWIW, the fixed split points on the NS3 are between B/C and E/F on every octave from E2/F2 to B6/C7, presumably so all splits will be applicable across 88, 76 and 73 key models.
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#2939964 - 07/27/18 05:13 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: ajstan]
Shutoku Offline
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I have a Krome 88 which is my primary gigging keyboard, and a Kross 61 which WAS my primary.

In terms of on the fly splits, on both boards I simply set up combi's of my most used splits, so for example:
1 is piano,
2 is rhodes,
3 is hammond (within the combi I have a few options since I don't have drawbars. This works well on the Krome because the touch pad makes it easy to mute and unmute instruments within the combi)
4 is piano/hammond split
5 rhodes/hammond split
etc.

When I used the Kross I often took a second board as a midi controler because I find it a bit challenging to split a 61 key board and not find myself going past the split.
On the Krome having 88 keys makes it much more possible to have splits with lots of room on both sides. Typically I put a piano on the bottom 4 octaves and an organ on the top 3 octaves for example.

I also have some songs with 3 and even 4 split points, so unless I really want to take my mono/poly or reface CS with me, I can't imagine it very likely I'll ever go back to two or three keyboards. I like playing that many, more than remembering splits, but even more than that I like setting up and tearing down only one keyboard!
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#2939991 - 07/27/18 07:30 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: MotiDave]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: ProfD
The hypothetical is what would be ideal *if* you had to gig with one KB only.

If you're really worried about a single KB dying, keep a spare Yamaha PSR or some type of Casio in the trunk (boot) of your vehicle. laugh cool

Yes, if the *only* reason you want a 2nd board around is insurance, a backup in the car can address that. (Cheap, small, light, but decent sounding include Korg Microstation and Yamaha MX49.) But that's only one of numerous reasons I prefer to have two boards, so this thread for me is about the exception rather than the rule. For the most part, if I'm going to bring two boards, I might as well use them. (Though also, bringing a spare is not ideal if you're arriving via mass transit...)

Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Even at $3600, no user-defined split points. See what I mean?

I don't remember your talking about Nord shortcomings, but would agree that that is one. But personally, not a deal-breaker. I'd prefer to be able to over-ride them, but the available choices are close enough. I haven't tried it, but the gradual transition option probably helps, in terms of softening the blow of crossing a split point. In fact, since I tend to do that accidentally no matter where I put the split, the benefit of that crossfade feature could theoretically outweigh the disadvantage of not being able to place the split precisely.

Originally Posted By: Adan
I've never really looked at the Roland DS61, but Scott's writeup makes me think I may have overlooked a good rehearsal/backup keyboard. I had a VR09 for awhile but the limitations on effects in multi-timbral setups was, for me, a fatal flaw. Maybe the DS61 doesn't have those same problems.

Correct, it does not. I had a VR09 briefly, and just hit too many frustrating walls. The DS provides a much smoother experience for patch selection and for splitting/layering sounds.

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
MOXF6 comes in at a tidy 16 lbs, you're looking at $1600-ish to add the Flash card (highly recommend).

MOXF6 is one of my favorite boards, I've used it plenty in 2-board rigs. As a single board, it's weak for on-the-fly splits and (generally) lacks seamless sound transitions (though you can somewhat get around that via Mix mode).

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#2939994 - 07/27/18 07:55 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
AnotherScott Offline
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minor correction to what I said about Casio MZ-X300/MZ-X500
....I thought it was limited to two sounds above the split point and two below, but in fact, you can mix and match the four sounds any way you want (within the limitations of a single split point).
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#2940000 - 07/27/18 09:02 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: MotiDave]
Michael W Offline
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If I was going to play in a band, and could only have one keyboard to cover every possible sound I'd want/need to make, at ~30 lbs I'd grab a -

- Yamaha Montage 6.

Done!
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#2940048 - 07/28/18 06:38 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Michael W]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Michael W
If I was going to play in a band, and could only have one keyboard to cover every possible sound I'd want/need to make, at ~30 lbs I'd grab a -

- Yamaha Montage 6.

Done!

I've never played with a Montage. But it is 33 lbs. And only 61 keys.

For an only board, I'd prefer at least 73 keys (better for piano, better for doing splits), and ideally, drawbar organ controls. I sacrificed those things on the DS61 only to get something super small and light. So the Montage misses too many marks for me as a single board.

I really like Yamaha, though. Getting back to my earlier post to MotiDave about the MOXF6, one of the reasons I picked up the DS61 was how much better it was than the MOXF6 when doing LH bass on my second tier (at less than half the weight of the Artis 7). But when I don't need to keep my 2nd tier split, I'd still take the MOXF6 over the DS61.

(When I have two boards, I prefer not to do LH bass on my lower "piano" board because it steals too much range from my piano sounds, i.e. the sounds where I can least spare the extra keys. I end up with a 56-61 key piano. I'd rather end up with a 32-37 key organ/synth. But that 32-37 key range is why easy octave switching for just that sound becomes such a plus.)
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#2940060 - 07/28/18 08:16 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
CowboyNQ Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: CowboyNQ
I have used and still occasionally use a Krome 61 for one-board shows.

I've never tried a Krome. I did look at the Kross when I was evaluating the DS61 (liked that it was smaller/lighter), but it really falls down on on the fly splits. I could not find an easy way to select a different RH sound while continuing to play the same LH sound, or easily adjust the volume or octave of the RH sound. Maybe Krome could handle this better. (Also, even the workaround of setting up your most commonly needed splits ahead of time was hampered by the lack of patch remain, i.e. you couldn't switch from one LH/RH saved split to another mid-song without an audible glitch.) But if you don't care about splits (i.e. aren't even trying to maintain some of your "two board" functionality), tons of boards can work well. Playing one sound at a time is something every board is pretty adept at. ;-)


Most of what you said there was a little mysterious to me Scott! I'm happy to admit I'm far from the most technically advanced keys player on this forum.

But to try and explain it further: The Krome 61 works well (for me) as a one board solution for four reasons:

1. It's tiny and lightweight. Addresses any footprint issue.

2. It sounds really good. I've had people come up to me post set and "ooh and ahh" about the fact I can get all these different sounds out of one little keyboard.

3. I can split the thing up the wazoo. I have splits and layers going all over the place with this 'board. Which means I can play any song my rock covers band does on this one instrument with a bit of pre-planning.

4. It's very easy to flick between patches mid-song and mid-set due to the touch screen. From what I can tell, it's nowhere near as good as the set list mode on the Kronos, but it's still pretty darn good.

All of this said, I really do prefer to use two boards and the one-board option is pretty rare.


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#2940070 - 07/28/18 08:59 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: CowboyNQ]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: CowboyNQ
Most of what you said there was a little mysterious to me Scott!
...
But to try and explain it further
...
1. It's tiny and lightweight. Addresses any footprint issue.

yup

Originally Posted By: CowboyNQ
2. It sound really good. I've had people come up to me post set and "ooh and ahh" about the fact I can get all these different sounds out of one little keyboard.

yup

Originally Posted By: CowboyNQ
3. I can split the thing up the wazoo. I have splits and layers going all over the place with this 'board. Which means I can play any song my rock covers band does on this one instrument with a bit of pre-planning.

yup, pre-planned splits are very flexible, I was talking about on-the-fly splits

Originally Posted By: CowboyNQ
4. It's very easy to flick between patches mid-song and mid-set due to the touch screen.

yup, but if you'e holding something and switch to a new sound, the sound you're holding will cut off, right?

So here's a sample scenario for the kind of thing I'm talking about. You've got a string pad under your left hand, organ on the right. You're coming up to a part of the song where you want to hold the pad, but you want to switch the organ to piano. How do you switch just the right hand sound, without switching the left? And for bonus points, not cut off your held string sound when you make the switch? And for more bonus points, quickly make the piano louder if you need to, without affecting the volume of your strings? And for even more bonus points, shift the piano up (or down) an octave part way through playing your piano part (since you've only got about 3 octaves' worth of keys available for your piano)? Even if you set up your string+piano and string+organ splits ahead of time and saved them as Combis, I don't think you can do this. And if this was a song that someone called out on the spur of the moment and you hadn't set up the Combis in advance, it would be even harder to get anywhere close to being able to do this, right?

Now, if you have two boards, ALL of this is a cinch. String pad on one board, switch from organ to piano on the other. You automatically have no sound cutting out, independent volume controls, plenty of keys for each part. But if you're trying to do this on one board, all the boards I listed in the OP will let you do this reasonably well. Most single boards (Korgs, Yamahas, non-DS Rolands) do not. That's the distinction that led me to my OP... single boards that are reasonably usable for people who really prefer to have dual board flexibility, but are in situations where trying to get by on a single board makes more sense.
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#2940071 - 07/28/18 09:04 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: CowboyNQ]
kbrkr Offline
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I'm surprised no one addresses sound quality in their assessments. Most talk about ergonomics and features.

My perfect all around board is the Kronos 76. The sound quality is amazing.

If I have a gig that doesn't really require sonic fidelity, I use the Nord Stage 3 Compact. Mostly like it for the weight and real time controls. However, it is limiting in that it doesn't do multi-samples and you can only layer 2 sampled sounds, so if you have a complex split with 3 samples or more, your SOL.

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#2940074 - 07/28/18 09:07 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
CowboyNQ Offline
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Ah, I think I understand you better now, thanks for clarifying Scott.

I totally agree with you I don't think the Krome can do any of those things you've articulated there.

But it doesn't really need to (for me).

And the thread title said "If YOU must gig with just one board" (my emphasis of course, not yours).

So, yeah. That's what I use if I must. TBH I'm not an "on the fly" guy. Preparation and rehearsal is a big part of all the bands I'm in. I know that's not everyone's go, but frankly I think I lack the talent to be changing things up mid-show - it would do my head in!

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#2940075 - 07/28/18 09:11 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: kbrkr]
CowboyNQ Offline
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Originally Posted By: kbrkr
I'm surprised no one addresses sound quality in their assessments.


Originally Posted By: CowboyNQ
2. It sounds really good.

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#2940076 - 07/28/18 09:13 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
sherry Offline
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Hey Scott: Virtually all the things you listed I can do with the Kronos, using the 61 key version, by using the Karma scene buttons. As a matter of fact, all the things you have listed I do using only the Kronos. I can switch a split with no cutoff of sound, change octave (very easy) using button. Certainly changing combi's is easy with no cutoff of sound. I really us the Karma scene buttons far more than the touch screen to change sounds. I find it way easier to change programs/combi's with the buttons. What I'd love to see though is a 73/76 semi weighted version. Every once in a while I'll forget to hit the octave button and a 73/76 version would eliminate that. The weighted versions, both versions, are wayyyy to friggin heavy, especially with a case.

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#2940077 - 07/28/18 09:18 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: CowboyNQ]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Aha, so Montage 6 is 33 lbs and only 61
Well the related Genos has more of the sonic character of the Montage. and weighs
13.0 kg (28 lb, 11 oz)
and is 76 notes.



Edited by I-missRichardTee (07/28/18 09:26 AM)
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#2940086 - 07/28/18 10:23 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
Synthaholic Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Even at $3600, no user-defined split points. See what I mean?

I don't remember your talking about Nord shortcomings, but would agree that that is one. But personally, not a deal-breaker. I'd prefer to be able to over-ride them, but the available choices are close enough. I haven't tried it, but the gradual transition option probably helps, in terms of softening the blow of crossing a split point. In fact, since I tend to do that accidentally no matter where I put the split, the benefit of that crossfade feature could theoretically outweigh the disadvantage of not being able to place the split precisely.


Iím talking about all shortcomings when it comes to splits and layers. Not being able to split/layer where you want, with any/all 16 channels on a $3600 board is a disgrace. Thatís manufacturers deciding for you that you donít need a function that was perfected in the 1990s, cost practically nil to implement, and makes the instrument more versatile.


Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

yup, but if you'e holding something and switch to a new sound, the sound you're holding will cut off, right?

So here's a sample scenario for the kind of thing I'm talking about. You've got a string pad under your left hand, organ on the right. You're coming up to a part of the song where you want to hold the pad, but you want to switch the organ to piano. How do you switch just the right hand sound, without switching the left? And for bonus points, not cut off your held string sound when you make the switch? And for more bonus points, quickly make the piano louder if you need to, without affecting the volume of your strings? And for even more bonus points, shift the piano up (or down) an octave part way through playing your piano part (since you've only got about 3 octaves' worth of keys available for your piano)? Even if you set up your string+piano and string+organ splits ahead of time and saved them as Combis, I don't think you can do this. And if this was a song that someone called out on the spur of the moment and you hadn't set up the Combis in advance, it would be even harder to get anywhere close to being able to do this, right?


I do stuff like this all the time, and the solution is simple: create your split with your pad (MIDI CH 2, letís say) in your left hand. Assign both channels 1 and 3 to the right hand split, organ on channel 3, piano on channel 1, with all of your edits - volume, transposition, etc. Assign two faders to control volume on 1 and 3 and use them to switch sounds.

This is another reason why I need multiple split points on multiple channels. I may have this scenario, plus another split with 2 or more channels above that, for horn blasts or guitar harmonics, or whatever.
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#2940099 - 07/28/18 11:53 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Synthaholic]
RABid Offline
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I have a Nord Stage 2 light, but consider it a secondary keyboard. The Kronos will forever be my desert island keyboard.
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#2940100 - 07/28/18 12:09 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: MathOfInsects]
RichieP_MechE Offline
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Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic

Even at $3600, no user-defined split points. See what I mean?

Sound On Sound:

Regrettably, and in common with previous models, there are only 10 pre-determined split positions so, if you want to play a synth bass sound from the bottom of the keyboard to G3, and a piano from Ab3 upward, you canít. The best you can do is select the nearest split point at either E3/F3 or B3/C4, which might be acceptable, but equally may not
.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/clavia-nord-stage-3


I agree, it's insane that Nord is sticking with their predefined split points. HOWEVER....they also have a very elegant feature that allows for crossfades between the adjacent regions--large, small, or none. Even with user-defined splits, I would find this feature attractive. Without them, what it does is gives (for example) bass to *about* that Ab, and piano from about that same Ab, with decreasing cross-fading as you get farther from the split point.

Semi-OT, but this demo video showcases the cross fade split points pretty nicely


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#2940105 - 07/28/18 01:20 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: MotiDave]
bennyray Offline
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The Kronos is still selling strong after at least 5=6 years now and is not really outdated when comparing to other keyboards.

Seems all these late night shows love the Kronos. I only use in my studio now and it doesn't get played alot but I sat down today and loaded some vintage synth sounds that I had on another USB they sounded really fat and clean.
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#2940115 - 07/28/18 03:13 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: MathOfInsects]
stoken6 Offline
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Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
I agree, it's insane that Nord is sticking with their predefined split points. HOWEVER....they also have a very elegant feature that allows for crossfades between the adjacent regions--large, small, or none. Even with user-defined splits, I would find this feature attractive. Without them, what it does is gives (for example) bass to *about* that Ab, and piano from about that same Ab, with decreasing cross-fading as you get farther from the split point.


I'm afraid I rain on this particular cross-fading parade. I sometimes need to assign a sample or tone to one key, or a small range of keys. This is often for very obvious effects: bells, hits, sweeps etc. I can't spare much real estate because I'm doing so much with the rest of the board.

(Simple example: when we do "Celebration" I'm covering the little guitar bends in the intro. The song's in Ab, so it's a Bb-bent-to-C below an Eb that doesn't bend. I have one zone F-B with pitch-bend enabled, and another zone above it C-E with it disabled. This way I can play Bb+Eb, and bend just the Bb. If for some odd reason we want to do the song in Eb, I would need to play F below Bb and just bend the F - but there's no way of giving it its own zone).

I sometimes think I'm working my Nord too hard - it's the only sound source in my rig. But you play the gear you own...

Cheers, Mike.

PS A prize to the first person who suggests that the solution is not to play that f***ing song in the first place.
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#2940123 - 07/28/18 04:21 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: stoken6]
ChiefDanG Offline
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Sorry to sidetrack a sidetrack, but another way to get around predefined splits is to create your own sample instrument. This is really only good for one-shots/fx/ and simple sounds. I did my own (dreaded) Uptown Funk sample - nine sounds, eight split points. However, pitch bend & sustain pedal would effect the whole sample, so this wouldn't help stoken6 at all.
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#2940139 - 07/28/18 08:21 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Synthaholic]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: kbrkr
I'm surprised no one addresses sound quality in their assessments. Most talk about ergonomics and features.

As I said in the OP, "for the most part, I'm focussing here on functionality rather than sounds, because while I have preferences, any can generally give me the sounds I need to get through a gig or rehearsal." But sure, if there is more than one board that gives you the functionality you need, your preference in their sounds is a great way to decide between them!

Originally Posted By: kbrkr
My perfect all around board is the Kronos 76. The sound quality is amazing.

If I have a gig that doesn't really require sonic fidelity, I use the Nord Stage 3 Compact. Mostly like it for the weight and real time controls.

Personally, I think the Nord sounds better for piano and organ, Kronos sounds better for most other sounds. But the Kronos 76 is too heavy for my criteria. It's beyond what I would consider taking on mass transit, walking/wheeling for blocks, tossing on and off a stage where you have 5 minute setup time (especially since it takes 2 minutes to boot). And as I said, I don't think Kronos is great for real-time splits and layers, if you're really trying to emulate the flexibility that normally requires two boards. (See my post #2940070)

Originally Posted By: sherry
Hey Scott: Virtually all the things you listed I can do with the Kronos, using the 61 key version, by using the Karma scene buttons.

Ah, Karma! i've never even begun to have the slightest clue about how to use it. And I can do what I want so easily on any of the boards I listed in my OP, I just am not motivated to figure out how to do it with Karma.

Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Aha, so Montage 6 is 33 lbs and only 61
Well the related Genos has more of the sonic character of the Montage. and weighs
13.0 kg (28 lb, 11 oz)
and is 76 notes.

I never looked at Genos, interesting! I does look cool, and meets my weight requiement. Does it have a clonewheel function? But wow, the price, it makes the Nord look cheap!

Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Not being able to split/layer where you want, with any/all 16 channels on a $3600 board is a disgrace.

Sorry, I think that's silly. It's just not what the board is designed to do. You might as well say that a multi-thousand dollar Moog or DSI synth that plays just one or two notes at a time is a disgrace. (Heck, they don't even have piano sounds!) The NS3 makes my list because it handles certain functions well. Of course, if you need different functions, it may not be the right board for you, but that doesn't make it a disgrace. Odds are it does some things better than the board that does the other things you need... and that doesn't make that board a disgrace. Just different in the features and strengths. (And I suspect that plenty of players don't need more than 4 sounds at a time.)

Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
So here's a sample scenario for the kind of thing I'm talking about. You've got a string pad under your left hand, organ on the right. You're coming up to a part of the song where you want to hold the pad, but you want to switch the organ to piano. How do you switch just the right hand sound, without switching the left? And for bonus points, not cut off your held string sound when you make the switch? And for more bonus points, quickly make the piano louder if you need to, without affecting the volume of your strings? And for even more bonus points, shift the piano up (or down) an octave part way through playing your piano part (since you've only got about 3 octaves' worth of keys available for your piano)? Even if you set up your string+piano and string+organ splits ahead of time and saved them as Combis, I don't think you can do this. And if this was a song that someone called out on the spur of the moment and you hadn't set up the Combis in advance, it would be even harder to get anywhere close to being able to do this, right?


I do stuff like this all the time, and the solution is simple: create your split with your pad (MIDI CH 2, letís say) in your left hand. Assign both channels 1 and 3 to the right hand split, organ on channel 3, piano on channel 1, with all of your edits - volume, transposition, etc. Assign two faders to control volume on 1 and 3 and use them to switch sounds.

You're describing a scenario of setting it up in advance, but completely ignoring all my discussion of doing these things on the fly. All the boards listed in my OP can do this on the fly. If you have no need for that and are willing to use boards that only let you do this kind of thing if you set it up in advance, you will increase the number of boards that can work, but you're limited to the combinations that you set up in advance, and there are still boards that, for example, don't give you easy real-time octave switching of just an individual sound, even if you set it up the way you describe, or may be missing some of the other features I described.

Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
This is another reason why I need multiple split points on multiple channels. I may have this scenario, plus another split with 2 or more channels above that, for horn blasts or guitar harmonics, or whatever.

You may need more splits, but they don't have to be on different channels. That depends on the architecture of the board. Some boards let you split multiple sounds on a single channel. Discrete channel assignment doesn't necessarily become an issue until you are incorporating sounds that are not self-contained within the single board. But anyway, if you need more than four sounds split and layered in a setup, with whatever split points you want, I think the only board in my list that does that is the DS61, and maybe the MZ-X500. (Of course the DS88 does it as well, but it misses my weight cutoff.) If you don't need some of the on-the-fly functionality that I find important, than you might be able to use Roland FA-06/07, Yamaha MOXF6 (Mix mode supports 16-way splits), Korg Kross/Krome/Kronos, maybe Casio PX5S/PX560 (using hexlayers). So you have numerous choices, whichever way you want to go.



Edited by AnotherScott (07/29/18 05:51 AM)
Edit Reason: casio
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#2940154 - 07/29/18 02:13 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: bennyray]
elsongs Offline
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Registered: 01/15/11
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Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Originally Posted By: bennyray

Seems all these late night shows love the Kronos.


If you're referring to The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, that's because bandleader Jon Batiste is an official Korg endorser.

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#2940174 - 07/29/18 06:19 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: sherry]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: elsongs
Originally Posted By: bennyray

Seems all these late night shows love the Kronos.


If you're referring to The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, that's because bandleader Jon Batiste is an official Korg endorser.

People generally endorse what they genuinely like.

I don't think anyone is doubting that the Kronos is a great board, and also one of the most versatile boards you can get.

I just don't like it as a single board solution.

* It's too heavy. Even the 61 is 31.5 lbs, over my ("Your Muscles May Vary") weight limit. But even if you're okay with that weight, between needing to play piano on it, and needing real estate for splits, I'd tend to want to avoid having just 61 keys on a single-board gig unless you're really trying to keep size/weight WAY down. And if that's the issue, the Kronos doesn't fit the bill. I've got lighter boards with more keys (and way lighter with 61).

* As I said, one of the times a 1-board rig makes sense is in a multi-band scenario, when you have to be on the stage and setup in just a few minutes. A 2 minute boot is a killer there, or at least a source for stress.

* Apart from what Sherry said about working with Karma, as I mentioned, Kronos "is weak at on-the-fly splits. Even with the new(ish) Quick Split feature, that's really designed to help you more easily set up Combis in advance of the gig, and isn't really a great live performance tool, because seamless sound transition doesn't work on that screen, i.e. changing your RH sound will glitch your LH sound." Even if you set up every split you could possibly need in advance as a Combi, if you're playing piano in a split (i.e. you probably only have 30-something keys for piano), ideally you're going to want to be able to octave-switch your piano on the fly, without also switching the octave of whatever you've got in the other side of the split. Again, with the possible exception of Karma (Sherry?), I don't see a way to do this on Kronos. I guess you could create a whole bunch of Combis which are all piano-plus-something (where there are multiple somethings, everything you might want to split piano with), with the piano shifted to different octaves in the different Combis, and put them all on/near the same Set List page. It all seems like a lot of work (if it can be done at all), to do something that all the boards I listed in my OP can do much more easily and without requiring pre-planning everything you might need.

* One more issue could be that the Kronos screen is especially hard to read in sunlight, so if your one-board gig is outdoors, that could be another limitation. But in fairness, I don't know how much screen wash-out could be a factor in some of the other boards I mentioned, I just know it's definitely an issue with Kronos. Probably a combination of its lack of angle, lack of max brightness, small font sizes, how much you rely on it (i.e. typically you can't bring up a sound if you can't read the screen, which is not true of all boards with screens).

Originally Posted By: sherry
I really us the Karma scene buttons far more than the touch screen to change sounds. I find it way easier to change programs/combi's with the buttons.

I glossed over the significance of that before, but yes, hard buttons for sound selection can be more quick and foolproof, and also helps address the sunlight issue. All the boards I put in my OP do have hard button patch recall except for the Numa. The only one that even has a touchscreen is the Casio, but even that also provides some programmable hard button patch selection ("registrations"), as all the others do. Though in all cases, some of the other functions do require at least being able to read the screen.

One of my knocks on almost all the boards, though, is kind of the opposite of the sunlight issue... black buttons on black backgrounds, and/or a related issue of buttons that are too close together.

Originally Posted By: sherry
What I'd love to see though is a 73/76 semi weighted version. Every once in a while I'll forget to hit the octave button and a 73/76 version would eliminate that. The weighted versions, both versions, are wayyyy to friggin heavy, especially with a case.

Have you considered the Kronos LS?
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#2940183 - 07/29/18 07:08 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
sherry Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 164
Hey Scott: Yeah, I looked at the LS, but you add a case to that and your up to 60 lbs and it takes up a lot of stage realestate. I'm an old weakling and like you said, even the 61 key version is heavy. There are a number of youtubes on how to use KARMA to change sounds. That's the only reason I use Karma is for changing sounds. And you're right again about the boot up time. Ugh. I'd definitely purchase a 73/76 semi-weighted Kronos if ever made though.

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#2940187 - 07/29/18 07:35 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: sherry]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: sherry
Hey Scott: Yeah, I looked at the LS, but you add a case to that and your up to 60 lbs
...I'd definitely purchase a 73/76 semi-weighted Kronos if ever made though.

The thing is, with the 61 at 31.5 lbs and the LS at 39.2 lbs, it doesn't seem that a theoretical 73/76 would likely be a whole bunch lighter than the LS, maybe about 35 lbs? Every pound counts, though...

In theory, I think Korg could make a lighter Kronos using other materials (i.e. aluminum, magnesium, titanium, carbon fiber); and they could make what would be in effect a generally faster booting one by using a laptop motherboard with rechargeable battery instead of the desktop motherboard (even if it needed AC for everything else to work, it could have a "sleep mode" that would keep the long boot from having to happen every time). These changes would presumably yield a significantly more expensive Kronos. I wonder what the market would be if they came out with something like that in a limited edition at a premium price. Make that the 73 key version (with aftertouch like the 61, not like the LS). That would be pretty killer.
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#2940198 - 07/29/18 08:30 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: elsongs]
bennyray Offline
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Originally Posted By: elsongs
Originally Posted By: bennyray

Seems all these late night shows love the Kronos.


If you're referring to The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, that's because bandleader Jon Batiste is an official Korg endorser.


No I was watching the Tonight Show and saw 2 Kronos on stage and James Corden keyboard player is using one also. Yea Jon is a Korg endorser great jazz player.
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#2940209 - 07/29/18 09:49 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
Synthaholic Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott


Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Not being able to split/layer where you want, with any/all 16 channels on a $3600 board is a disgrace.

Sorry, I think that's silly. It's just not what the board is designed to do.


Did they release a statement describing what the board was designed to do? When I buy anything at the high end of a product line I expect it to do everything the cheaper versions do, plus more. A decent flexibility with splits/layers should be standard feature, like cup holders in a car. Maybe I should flip it: what possible reason could Clavia have to exclude advanced split/layering? Itís old technology, software-wise, so cost canít be a serious consideration at this point.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
I do stuff like this all the time, and the solution is simple: create your split with your pad (MIDI CH 2, letís say) in your left hand. Assign both channels 1 and 3 to the right hand split, organ on channel 3, piano on channel 1, with all of your edits - volume, transposition, etc. Assign two faders to control volume on 1 and 3 and use them to switch sounds.

You're describing a scenario of setting it up in advance, but completely ignoring all my discussion of doing these things on the fly.


Ok, apologies. I thought you started this thread in answer to my complaints in the Numa Compact 2x thread? I never mentioned anything about Ďon the flyí. I donít do anything on the fly. All my splits/layers are written into my Multi/Combi Setups. Frankly, in a band situation I donít know why anyone would be doing anything on the fly instead of preparing for your gigs ahead of time, save the odd times when someone sits in and youíre playing an unfamiliar song where you need to cobble something together.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
This is another reason why I need multiple split points on multiple channels. I may have this scenario, plus another split with 2 or more channels above that, for horn blasts or guitar harmonics, or whatever.

You may need more splits, but they don't have to be on different channels. That depends on the architecture of the board. Some boards let you split multiple sounds on a single channel. Discrete channel assignment doesn't necessarily become an issue until you are incorporating sounds that are not self-contained within the single board. But anyway, if you need more than four sounds split and layered in a setup, with whatever split points you want, I think the only board in my list that does that is the DS61, and maybe the MZ-X500. (Of course the DS88 does it as well, but it misses my weight cutoff.) If you don't need some of the on-the-fly functionality that I find important, than you might be able to use Roland FA-06/07, Yamaha MOXF6 (Mix mode supports 16-way splits), Korg Kross/Krome/Kronos, maybe Casio PX5S/PX560 (using hexlayers). So you have numerous choices, whichever way you want to go.



As stated in that Numa thread, my requirements are 76 or 88 keys w/Aftertouch, quality keybed, lightweight, and good MIDI control. Internal sounds, other than piano and electric piano, are not a concern. Iím controlling rack gear, which also handle all of my sequences. I need flexibility in playing those rack voices from the keyboard in splits, along with the AP or EP from the board (generally speaking). Itís very difficult to find a board to satisfy all that. If I could buy a brand new QS7.1, I would do that, despite the 33lbs.
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#2940228 - 07/29/18 11:37 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Synthaholic]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Did they release a statement describing what the board was designed to do?

Sure. Owner's manual, spec sheets.

Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
When I buy anything at the high end of a product line I expect it to do everything the cheaper versions do, plus more. A decent flexibility with splits/layers should be standard feature, like cup holders in a car.

To me, it's much more like you're complaining that an expensive roadster doesn't have a rear seat. Rear seets have been around for a hundred years! I can get a car half the price and it will have a rear seat! But you're missing the virtues of the roadster. If you need a back seat, though, that's not the car for you. And that doesn't mean that car was a design failure.

Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
what possible reason could Clavia have to exclude advanced split/layering? Itís old technology, software-wise, so cost canít be a serious consideration at this point.

If by "advanced" you mean being able to put the splits exactly where you want instead of only at pre-defined points, I wish they would. Their reason for doing what they do is that it gives you the advantage of being able to quickly dial in "about" the right split point and always have a visual indication of exactly where the split is. And I agree with them, it's useful, but I do wish there were an option for an advanced user to over-ride. (They could have the light blink instead of be solid if they wanted to indicate that the position was now only approximate.) I and many others can live with the way they do it, but some can't, and they should buy something else.

If by "advanced" you mean being able to split 16 sounds, I think that would be more expensive under their archituecture and also more complicated operationally, which might negate some of the appeal the board has for the people who do buy it. As it is, the 6 internal mix-and-matchable sounds (plus two exernal) requires toggling the front panel between two layers of 3 internal (+1 external) sounds each. For 15 internal sounds using this approach, you'd have to rotate the control surface functions through 5 layers. I'm not sure how much call there would be for that level of complication among the people to whom Nord appeals. That said, it might be interesting!

Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Ok, apologies. I thought you started this thread in answer to my complaints in the Numa Compact 2x thread? I never mentioned anything about Ďon the flyí.

I started the thread based on this:
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
So, which of these boards would you use as your only keyboard in a one-keyboard setup?

I suspect none of them.
See, you asked me what I would use, which is a very different question from what I'd suggest that you use! ;-) But when you explained what you needed, I listed a bunch of boards that I thought might work for you ("DS61, and maybe the MZ-X500...Roland FA-06/07, Yamaha MOXF6...Korg Kross/Krome/Kronos, maybe Casio PX5S/PX560", all under 30 lbs. That Genos mentioned earlier might do it for you as well.

Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Frankly, in a band situation I donít know why anyone would be doing anything on the fly instead of preparing for your gigs ahead of time, save the odd times when someone sits in and youíre playing an unfamiliar song where you need to cobble something together.

Just a different way of working. My wedding band has a repertoire of literally hundreds of songs. I have no desire to program patches for all of them. 90% of them are dfferent combinations of the same 20 or so sounds. As long as I can grab those sounds when and where I want them, I'm all set, without any prep time. And I can do it on any of at least a half dozen boards (or board-pairs) I own, without having to re-program hundreds of songs if I have some reason to change boards. And as long as a board can do these things, I can change to a new board if I want, without having to reprogram hundreds of songs again.

Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
As stated in that Numa thread, my requirements are 76 or 88 keys w/Aftertouch, quality keybed, lightweight, and good MIDI control. Internal sounds, other than piano and electric piano, are not a concern. Iím controlling rack gear, which also handle all of my sequences. I need flexibility in playing those rack voices from the keyboard in splits, along with the AP or EP from the board (generally speaking). Itís very difficult to find a board to satisfy all that. If I could buy a brand new QS7.1, I would do that, despite the 33lbs.

And that's really an entirely different premise. You're not asking about gigging with one board, you're asking about gigging with one board plus a bunch of rack gear. These days, that's a less common need. If you're trying to do everything with one board, you're probably trying to travel light. If you're going to bring a rack, heck, bring a second board too. ;-)

Aftertouch, unfortunately, has gotten rare. More so than the ability to control rack gear or do 16 way splits. Some of what I suggested for you will work fine for controlling rack gear on more than 4 channels (Roland FA-06/07, Korg Kross/Krome/Kronos), and even more will work if 4 zones is enough (Artis 7, PX5S, MOXF6), but only Kronos has aftertouch. And wanting it to have at least 76 keys and not weigh more than about 30 lbs? Yeah, you're out of luck. This combination was never common. A used Korg TR76 might work for you. In something new, maybe that Yamaha Genos will do it, I don't know. In lieu of aftertouch, have you considered using an expression pedal to give you the same "hands free" sound manipulation?

And of couse "quality keybed" can be a whole other problem, but that's subjective.

Your best bet might be to stick with the Numa Compact 2X for your lightweight 88 keys with aftertouch, and connect it to an iPhone/iPad or laptop or Windows tablet, which can take a single zone from your Numa and let you split it 16 ways to send it back out to your rack. ( I know there are laptop/Windows apps that can do this, I *think* there are iOS apps as well.) Of course, at that point, you can also consider making the phone/tablet/laptop a sound source as well, if you'd like.
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#2940229 - 07/29/18 11:37 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Synthaholic]
ajstan Offline
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Registered: 02/07/18
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Originally Posted By: Synthaholic

Did they release a statement describing what the board was designed to do? When I buy anything at the high end of a product line I expect it to do everything the cheaper versions do, plus more. A decent flexibility with splits/layers should be standard feature, like cup holders in a car. Maybe I should flip it: what possible reason could Clavia have to exclude advanced split/layering? Itís old technology, software-wise, so cost canít be a serious consideration at this point.

The split functionality is well documented in the Nord user manual and video demos. I knew how it worked before I bought my NS3, and saw it as a plus that there were LEDs that indicated the 10 split points and crossfade status. I have 100+ programs with splits and I rely upon the LEDs to remember where I set the splits.

The cost to implement split points on any key would likely be to add 76 additional LEDs on the NS3 88 or remove the LEDs altogether. I like it as it is, but understand why someone would want the capabilities you describe.
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#2940241 - 07/29/18 03:13 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: ajstan]
ShadowMan Offline
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Registered: 03/29/08
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As I've scaled back my gear to many lighter items (rather than one big keyboard and amp) I've been consistently impressed at the ability of my succession of Electros and their ability to cover just about everything I need on a gig. After an unfortunate incident years ago where a singer's misstep broke the power cord and jack on my SK1 73 mid-song - and I happened to have my old Electro 2 in the truck as a back-up - I haven't done a show without one Electro or another.

A year or so ago I augmented this with a MOXF6 as a top board for synth sounds and pads for a classic rock band - and with the addition of the Chick Corea board and sounds and the Organination B3 patches have found this makes the Yamaha and an SSV3 a killer, light rehearsal rig that I could happily gig with. It offers all the sounds, splits and flexibility that I could need to do a one board show. ( And even in SKB style cases, these boards are more than manageable for folks like me who just can't transport the heavy stuff anymore. )

Would I prefer a fully weighted bottom board and a clonewheel on top? You bet. I'd like a B3 and a Rhodes, too... but unfortunately neither option is in the cards any more.

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#2940243 - 07/29/18 03:52 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: ShadowMan]
eric Offline
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I used 2-3 boards religiously from ~1998 through 2011 when I went back to just one. I always loved having a digital piano fully weighted 88 note board like RD600 or S90 plus a waterfall clonewheel such as a Hammond or Nord clonewheel. I would occasionally use a 3rd board, such as a Moog LP or Nord Lead.

I switched to one board after I decided the NS2 could handle everything I needed, with the tradeoff being keyboard action. I used the NS2 88 for about 5 years and it was awesome. Then I got the HP 76 EX version and love it as well, plus the waterfall 73 EX. Nowadays, my NS2 88 stays in my home studio and I switch between the 76 and the 73 for gigs, always having one there as backup for the other in case something goes wrong.

I suspect the NS3 will be an even more powerful option, but I've been holding off on it, given the redundancy I already have with my arsenal of NS2 units from different eras. wave

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#2940250 - 07/29/18 04:48 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: eric]
Music*aL Offline
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I'm not quite ready to give up my two board gig rig, but, if I had to I would end up either with the NS3HP76 or the NS273. My classic Stage is staying home these days.
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#2940251 - 07/29/18 04:49 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Music*aL]
David Loving Offline
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Korg SV-1
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#2940252 - 07/29/18 04:54 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: eric]
echo66 Offline
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Are instruments really better just because they're light? I must be missing something. On stage with a Montage 88 and/or a Kronos 88 makes me much happier than bringing my PX5s. Solid/substantive instruments feel great IMO.

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#2940254 - 07/29/18 05:05 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: echo66]
Music*aL Offline
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Originally Posted By: echo66
Are instruments really better just because they're light?



Of course!!

When your back and knees thank you at the end of the gig.

aL
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Gear: NS3 HP76, Mojo 61, NS2 73, NS 88 classic, C. Bechstein baby grand.

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#2940256 - 07/29/18 05:09 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: echo66]
CowboyNQ Offline
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Originally Posted By: echo66
Are instruments really better just because they're light?

Depends on the usage scenario, but for those of us who have to carry our own gear - it's certainly helpful.

In his OP, Scott mentioned that one of the factors he was considering was public transport, so I'd say in that case most definitely. I'd hate to drag my SV-1 88 around on a train.

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#2940259 - 07/29/18 05:29 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: CowboyNQ]
echo66 Offline
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Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 54
Good points. It sucks that our instruments are heavy and big. I would carry the extra to have the best sounds.....just me.

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#2940261 - 07/29/18 05:44 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: echo66]
hardware Offline
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I prefer rolling ground sounds on wheels then carrying a light board
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#2940264 - 07/29/18 06:10 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: hardware]
echo66 Offline
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Same, easy is not always easy.

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#2940265 - 07/29/18 06:36 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: echo66]
ShadowMan Offline
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Originally Posted By: echo66
Are instruments really better just because they're light? I must be missing something. On stage with a Montage 88 and/or a Kronos 88 makes me much happier than bringing my PX5s. Solid/substantive instruments feel great IMO.


No argument there. And when provided a backline of gear like that, I'm thrilled. But with three bad discs, for my own gigging gear it's either go light or don't gig. With a 30-35 lb limit per piece on what I can safely transport, my options are a lot more limited than yours.

And even with cases on wheels, everything still has to get loaded in and out of a vehicle and often up steps. So for me anyway, lighter IS better!

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#2940272 - 07/29/18 07:04 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: David Loving]
ProfD Offline
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Originally Posted By: David Loving
Korg SV-1

Absolutely, as the proud owner of one. thu

I mentioned the Nord Stage 3 in this thread as a single KB solution consolidating my SV-1 and Prophet 6. cool
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#2940304 - 07/30/18 05:58 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: ProfD]
analogholic Offline
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These days, NS3 73
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#2940319 - 07/30/18 07:51 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: analogholic]
Adan Offline
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I notice more people getting the Nord Compact and being happy with it. If organ is a big part of your sound and you want to gig with one board, the Compact is the category winner. The only way to get better organ is to go dedicated clone, which means a 2 keyboard rig, and every other do-it-all keyboard is a significant step down in clone quality.
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#2940324 - 07/30/18 08:13 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Adan]
kenheeter Offline
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My Nord Stage 2 compact also works very well in a one keyboard setup. If you're on a budget, you can likely pick one of these up for significantly less and it covers almost all of the same ground.
Ken

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#2940362 - 07/30/18 11:45 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
Math&Music Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
You're describing a scenario of setting it up in advance, but completely ignoring all my discussion of doing these things on the fly. All the boards listed in my OP can do this on the fly. If you have no need for that and are willing to use boards that only let you do this kind of thing if you set it up in advance, you will increase the number of boards that can work, but you're limited to the combinations that you set up in advance, and there are still boards that, for example, don't give you easy real-time octave switching of just an individual sound, even if you set it up the way you describe, or may be missing some of the other features I described.

The Nords do make it incredibly easy to change most parameters on the fly. But even though I donít feel the need to do this very often, I still prefer the Nordís interface for preparing patches in advance. I find it much easier to use than an interface that requires a lot of menu diving.
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#2940365 - 07/30/18 11:54 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Math&Music]
Toano88 Offline
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I often gig with just my SP-6. It has an excellent organ to get by with if you don't need to change drawbar settings mid song. The piano and EP are excellent as are the other sounds. I use my VR-09 on top but its not absolutely essential. Depends on the gig.
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#2940366 - 07/30/18 11:59 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Math&Music]
synthizen2 Offline
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I suppose I COULD make do with a 1-board setup... it's just that I WON'T. smile

Biggest factor, of course, being weighted keys for piano and non-weighted keys for organ/synth. That's just a MUST-HAVE for me. No compromises accepted.

If I were forced to do it, I would get medium-to-poor organ/leslie tone (and no drawbars) if I went with the MOX8... and 76 semi-weighted keys to play piano on, if I went with the PC3. Also I would have to create a piano/organ split where both sounds are needed in the same tune, and I HATE doing that!

In a pinch, doable, but definitely never desirable.


Edited by synthizen2 (07/30/18 12:01 PM)
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#2940372 - 07/30/18 12:11 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Math&Music]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Math&Music
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
You're describing a scenario of setting it up in advance, but completely ignoring all my discussion of doing these things on the fly. All the boards listed in my OP can do this on the fly. If you have no need for that and are willing to use boards that only let you do this kind of thing if you set it up in advance, you will increase the number of boards that can work, but you're limited to the combinations that you set up in advance, and there are still boards that, for example, don't give you easy real-time octave switching of just an individual sound, even if you set it up the way you describe, or may be missing some of the other features I described.

The Nords do make it incredibly easy to change most parameters on the fly. But even though I donít feel the need to do this very often, I still prefer the Nordís interface for preparing patches in advance. I find it much easier to use than an interface that requires a lot of menu diving.

I agree completely. While it wasn't a factor in my "choosing a single board" evaluation, and despite my general reliance on grabbing lots of common sounds on the fly, there are definitely times when I want to customize a sound or set up a more complicated patch for a particular song, and I find it much easier to do on a Nord than on anything else. Setting up a 3-way split or altering synth filters/envelopes or programming the mod wheel to do just about anything you want is something I find much easier/faster on the NS3 than on anything else we've been talking about. You might have fewer options, but you can do the most commonly needed things very efficiently, and I guess that's the tradeoff in a nutshell.
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#2940387 - 07/30/18 12:44 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
AnotherScott Offline
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Picking up from some of the conversation here, there are some additional considerations if you're gigging with just one board AND you're playing LH bass. Discussed in part 2 of the post at http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2940357/Keyboard_for_LH_bass#Post2940357
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#2940399 - 07/30/18 01:26 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Electro Fan]
Electro Fan Offline
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Registered: 04/11/10
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Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Electro Fan
I am on the verge of buying the NS3 73 Compact to replace my Kronos 61 in my gig rig. I usually pair the Kronos 61 with a Px-5s, but the idea of the one board setup is very appealing to me. Unlike others who have mentioned that certain gigs in which small pay is a factor in bringing just one board, I do prison ministry, so pay is not an issue. However, many of the facilities that we play at require a lengthy check in process as all of our gear must be searched and accounted before can setup. We often have an hour to setup and run a quick sound check. We are a 6 piece band , so we have our share of gear. We only usually play one hour long concert, then it is break down and pack up. I am often the last to be ready and we have to do our own connection to the snake to reach the PA.

It seemed to me that the NS3ís weight, real estate, focus on organ and APís would be a perfect fit, but I would at some point need to sell the Kronos to defray the costs. Some of the posts here suggested the Kronos 61 would be there one board setup, but wondered how they adjusted to the 61 Keys? I wish the 73 key Kronos was lighter and has unweighted Keys.



Well, I finally made the call on a NS3 compact. Sweetwater has a demo model, and if was enough of a savings off new, that I felt prompted to make the purchase. It should arrive Thursday. Hoping that Scottís comments about the ease of creating quick split and layers will be true for me as well. I have a concert on the 11th that involves multiple bands, so the one board rig would be ideal, but not sure I will have had enough hands-on time to bring it it to the gig.
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#2941027 - 08/02/18 05:52 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Electro Fan]
motomike1961 Offline
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No love for the Korg Grandstage?? I was forced to use it as my only board at a gig and it handled everything I normally do with my 2 keyboard rig with ease.
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#2942572 - 08/11/18 02:14 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: motomike1961]
Guven Ilter Offline
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I would go for an NS3, but with a module like Integra 7, or a smaller version like Roland jdxi for some pad and strings sounds. Thatís what Iíve been doing for the last couple of months and itís both easy to set up with the extern on NS3, and a lightweight solution.


Edited by Guven Ilter (08/11/18 02:15 PM)
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#2942584 - 08/11/18 05:04 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Guven Ilter]
hardware Offline
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Iím liking my 1 88 note rig.
Physis K4 makes it easy to cover 4-8 parts during a pop tune.
The 4 scenes inside of a performance (song) make it a breeze.
The 4U on the bottom is a Code 8 OD, the 4U above it is a SurgeX, SonicCore XITE-1 DSP Rack, and the HX-3. The 2U on top is dual rackmounted PCs, one as a spare seeings how theyíre inexpensive to build.
On top of that are 2 x SE-02s that are automated.
The gigs Ive been doing lately are pop and disco, small casino stages.
Outdoor gigs like this week. I use the TT08As outdoors.
Indoor gigs get the QSC K8.2s.

Iím liking dancing drinking, and itís a challenge covering every part.
Especially the Bruno Mars tunes.

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#2942642 - 08/12/18 06:53 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Guven Ilter]
AnotherScott Offline
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An update to my OP... I said that Numa Compact 2 has seamless sound transitions... but that's only true for selecting your sounds on the fly (though it does work independently for either side of a split). If you're calling up programs you've saved, there is no seamless transition between them. So depending on which way you prefer to work, that could be an issue, and would be a disadvantage compared to any of the others I mentioned.
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#2943105 - 08/14/18 09:50 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
Tonysounds Offline
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SK1-88 and my Integra 7 is a pretty bad ass 1 keyboard* rig.
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#2943192 - 08/14/18 04:36 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Tonysounds]
RABid Offline
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A lot of people picking the Nord Stage. For me and my play style the synth section is too minimal. I'm very synth oriented so I would have to stick with the Kronos. The JP-80 would be in consideration if it was not such a tank in size and weight. On the other hand, I picked up a Roland FA-06 and was pleasantly surprised. This is a keyboard I would consider for subway travel.
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#2943330 - 08/15/18 09:59 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
Kevin Sage Offline
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Registered: 08/10/15
Posts: 41
Loc: AZ
I LOVE my Kronos X88 and use it as the only board currently in my setup, but am concerned about loading sounds on a rental unit that may be licensed on my K at home. We are beginning to get gigs that will require travel, potentially internationally and I really need a board that: Is readily available at most destinations as a rental, has the split capabilities but allows me to quickly upload my show, which would include decent piano, ep, synth and organ along with a few samples to a USB and transfer to another board with minimal effort. Does that board exist? To put in context, I'm doing Journey music exclusively.
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#2943406 - 08/15/18 06:53 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Kevin Sage]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kevin Sage
I LOVE my Kronos X88 and use it as the only board currently in my setup, but am concerned about loading sounds on a rental unit that may be licensed on my K at home. We are beginning to get gigs that will require travel, potentially internationally and I really need a board that: Is readily available at most destinations as a rental, has the split capabilities but allows me to quickly upload my show, which would include decent piano, ep, synth and organ along with a few samples to a USB and transfer to another board with minimal effort. Does that board exist?

To me, this application just screams for a laptop.

Bu otherwise, I'd probably go with a Motif XF with your sampled stored on its flash card, and you could bring the flash card with you and install it in the backline-provided unit.
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#2943509 - 08/16/18 10:39 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
Kevin Sage Offline
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Are you speaking of going with Main Stage and a controller keyboard as the preferred travel option?
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#2943550 - 08/16/18 01:54 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Kevin Sage]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kevin Sage
Are you speaking of going with Main Stage and a controller keyboard as the preferred travel option?

No, the premise was traveling with no keyboard ("a board that: Is readily available at most destinations as a rental"). So then all you need to travel with is your laptop running Maintstage or whatever, and you can plug it into whatever.
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#2943554 - 08/16/18 02:15 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
Bobby Simons Offline
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I would add a compact control surface, like a Korg nanokontrol 2, to that. Map your controls in advance to something you can bring along. Then you just need an 88 (or the size of your choice) with working wheels and a couple of pedal inputs. Mainstage is the best - but it wants you to do your due diligence ahead of time
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#2943566 - 08/16/18 03:59 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Bobby Simons]
LX88 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/10
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One board, but I cheat a little bit.

My board is still a Roland RD300GX. After all these years.... killer Rhodes and still the Superior Grand acoustic sounds good.

My organ sound comes from the HX3 module. Easy to use with presets. Just about my favorite on board leslie sim.

So not quite " one board" but not bad....

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#2943574 - 08/16/18 05:47 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: LX88]
AnotherScott Offline
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Personally, I count it as one board if you can leave any other pieces velcro'd in place so you can still move it as one unit.
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#2944180 - 08/20/18 05:45 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
HSS Offline
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If I have to do a quick gig with one board, I'll use my Kurz SP4-7 if it's more AP/ EP focused. If more organ with a moderate amount of AP / EP is required, I'll use my NE 5d 73. If a heavily focus on organ is required, I'll use my Hammond Sk1 61.

I now tend to gig with small-footprint, lightweight boards due to a bad knee and the fact that most stages I play on as a weekend warrior are small and cramped.

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#2944182 - 08/20/18 06:23 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Bobby Simons]
Reezekeys Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
I would add a compact control surface, like a Korg nanokontrol 2, to that. Map your controls in advance to something you can bring along. Then you just need an 88 (or the size of your choice) with working wheels and a couple of pedal inputs. Mainstage is the best - but it wants you to do your due diligence ahead of time

+1. This is what I did before I had status on United and could fly with my Roland A800. I still carry my NanoKontrol in case the Roland has issues. I agree with you 100% - who wants to have to program a rental keyboard's sliders, knobs & buttons before a show (assuming it even has the controls you require)? I also pack this along Ė quick, easy, cheap and safe for any surface, it attaches the NanoKontrol on any keyboard:


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#2944206 - 08/21/18 02:33 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Reezekeys]
yannis D Offline
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Registered: 09/01/03
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Loc: athens, greece
I gig with one board - NE 5D
I just add Mainstage (running on the same keyboard), when i need more options and i do splits, layers etc, depending on the group
Most of the times though, it's just the Electro. Easy to use, nice sounds, easy to transport in a crowdy city.
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#2944223 - 08/21/18 06:23 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: yannis D]
Legatoboy Offline
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sp6
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#2944231 - 08/21/18 06:57 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Legatoboy]
Toano88 Offline
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Lately all I have been hauling is my SP6. I've loaded it with a whole bunch of Forte SE and PC3 sounds and I tweaked a bunch of these in the editor. And I have several multis setup. So I have pretty much stopped taking my VR-09 for now.
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#2944238 - 08/21/18 07:37 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Toano88]
BEMcCut Offline
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Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 200
Loc: Pennsylvania
I did a fill-in job Saturday with just my Kurzweil PC361. No back up. It worked well and covered the job. Monday I turned it on and nothing, just blue screen and no sound. It took about 10 times of turning it off and back on before it worked. It is still working fine but my VR-09 will be in the car from now on just in case.

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#2952412 - 10/10/18 02:23 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: BEMcCut]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Some updates...

...a mistake in the OP, Casio MZ-X300/MZ-X500 doesn't run on batteries.

...and a clarification, Artis 7 limitations on patch remain with organ sounds affects only switching *away* from an organ sound, not *to* one (as I recently mentioned in another thread)

Meanwhile, there's now a 76-key version of the Juno DS61 (15.25 lbs), which would have all the benefits of the DS61 plus the wider keyspan. So there's a nice 76 that's about half the price of the Artis 7, and 12 lbs lighter, too. Mostly what you lose is the clonewheel engine and a lot of MIDI functionality. Kurz also has advantages in patch selection, better facilities for 3 and 4 sound splits/layers (DS is really optimized for up to 2 sounds at a time), and probably better action.

I'm also looking forward to trying out the Yamaha MODX7 (16.3 lbs).
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#2952422 - 10/10/18 05:21 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Toano88]
RABid Offline
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Because of the lack of a key pad to quickly enter patch numbers the Roland FA-06 has fallen off of the list for me. Back to just the Kronos. I would also consider the Montage if the job did not call for much organ.
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#2952426 - 10/10/18 05:41 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: RABid]
Sven Golly Offline
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Originally Posted By: RABid
Because of the lack of a key pad to quickly enter patch numbers the Roland FA-06 has fallen off of the list for me. Back to just the Kronos. I would also consider the Montage if the job did not call for much organ.


I'm late to this thread, so... TL;DR.

I just bought a MODX7, and that coupled with my iPad and Galileo 2, I'm covered for the pop gigs where I don't have the room or the need for the Mojo61 + Lower rig. Might just pick up a Crumar drawbar unit to use with Galileo to put the icing on the cake. wink
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#2952427 - 10/10/18 05:42 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: RABid]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: RABid
Because of the lack of a key pad to quickly enter patch numbers the Roland FA-06 has fallen off of the list for me...I would also consider the Montage if the job did not call for much organ.
As you probably know, you can use the trigger pads on the FA as a keypad, but it's not so practical because you probably want the pads available for other things. The DS has a better arrangement, you can quickly toggle the Favorite buttons to act as a keypad. But the DS is weak for organ. That would lead me back to the Artis 7 which has a decent drawbar organ with real-time drawbar control. It doesn't use a number pad, but you can have quick 2-button access to any of 256 favorite sounds/combinations, among other quick access sets.
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#2952428 - 10/10/18 05:44 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Sven Golly]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sven Golly
I just bought a MODX7, and that coupled with my iPad and Galileo 2, I'm covered for the pop gigs where I don't have the room or the need for the Mojo61 + Lower rig. Might just pick up a Crumar drawbar unit to use with Galileo to put the icing on the cake. wink

Go all the way and replace Galileo with a Gemini module!
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#2952436 - 10/10/18 06:21 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
Sven Golly Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Sven Golly
I just bought a MODX7, and that coupled with my iPad and Galileo 2, I'm covered for the pop gigs where I don't have the room or the need for the Mojo61 + Lower rig. Might just pick up a Crumar drawbar unit to use with Galileo to put the icing on the cake. wink

Go all the way and replace Galileo with a Gemini module!


Budget must be observed... and that's overkill for just organ. wink

(that being said, though, the Gemini Rack would definitely be a kickass addition. wink )
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#2952439 - 10/10/18 06:43 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Sven Golly]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Registered: 12/14/16
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Loc: Northeastern MN, U.S.
Motif XF8 for me. Or Montage actually, since it would be a single-board rig with no MIDI used. Or Kronos (LS?).


Edited by Murky Musty Moth (10/10/18 06:44 PM)
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#2952445 - 10/10/18 07:34 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: RABid]
DanL Offline
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Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 4305
Loc: DE
Originally Posted By: RABid
Because of the lack of a key pad to quickly enter patch numbers the Roland FA-06 has fallen off of the list for me. Back to just the Kronos. I would also consider the Montage if the job did not call for much organ.


Are you using the pads for something else, like triggering samples? Because you can definitely set the keypad to enter patch numbers, I used mine that way all the time.
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#2952446 - 10/10/18 07:38 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: DanL]
DanL Offline
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I did my 1st single board gig with the Kronos last weekend, with my dance/party band. (I do a lot of blues type gigs with my Electro 5 by itself, this was new territory) I had to replicate a lot of patches from my FA08 and I'm also using the CX3 engine for organ, so I had to do some other creative splits to work that in. The gig went well. I had to tweak some things that were not quite right, in how they sat in the mix etc., so i went thru everything tonight and made some adjustments.
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#2952448 - 10/10/18 08:45 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: DanL]
hardware Offline
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Registered: 03/04/14
Posts: 1555
Loc: Nevada
Iím using one now.
Took a while to replace all the patches Solaris, Omnisphere and Zebra2 were doing but Code 8 split into 2 x 4 Voice polysynths gets the job done.
The SE-02, HX -3, Strymon Big Sky, Timeline and Deco do a good job of replacing the Scope DSP FX, and the Key Largo sounds really loud and clean.

I can always go back to the expensive Solaris/Scope DSP Rig.
Itís chall ngoni covering all of the parts on 1 Controller, but with performance that contain 4 scenes, 8 zones each really helps.

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#2952552 - 10/11/18 10:22 AM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: hardware]
Tonysounds Offline
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Registered: 08/11/05
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One board rigs for me are an SK1 88 with my Integra.
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#2952643 - 10/11/18 04:40 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Tonysounds]
jeffinpghpa Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 555
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Depends on the gig for me.

If primarily pianos & EPs, Forte 7.
If I don't want to carry that weight, FA-07, but I might use an iPad running Ravenscroft, Neo Soul Keys, Korg Module, etc., or not.
If primarily, organ, Viscount Legend Live, but with the iPad apps above (and synth apps)

Just depends.
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#2952644 - 10/11/18 04:48 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: Tonysounds]
hardware Offline
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Registered: 03/04/14
Posts: 1555
Loc: Nevada
Originally Posted By: Tonysounds
One board rigs for me are an SK1 88 with my Integra.


Thatís what Iím trying to do for local gigs.
Plus the i7 would be a great spare/back up if a PC breaks down.
i7 has the best Brass Shakes around.
And Iíve got BBB, NI Session Pro, Screaming Trumpet and CHein Horns 2.
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#2952647 - 10/11/18 04:59 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: hardware]
Fleer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/21/17
Posts: 111
Loc: Boston/Cambridge
Iím thinking the new Yamaha MODX range should be perfect.
Also thinking to let go of my Roland FA in the process.

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#2952653 - 10/11/18 06:08 PM Re: If you must gig with just one board... [Re: AnotherScott]
EricBarker Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/25/18
Posts: 208
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Personally, I count it as one board if you can leave any other pieces velcro'd in place so you can still move it as one unit.


I leave my Roli Seaboard 49 velcro'd to my Mojo... but I don't think that quite counts.
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MacBook Pro running MainStage and various plugins (NI and other)
Arturia Keylab88, Crumar Mojo61, Seaboard Rise49, Vortex Keytar, Trumpet

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