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#2937129 - 07/10/18 10:13 AM Introducing Surface Go
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6404
Loc: USA, greater NY area
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-go/8v9dp4lnknsz?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

So - the price is right. Can it run Cantabile and some decent VSTs with Windows 10 in S mode, an Intel Pentium “Gold” and 4 or 8gb of RAM?

Software
Windows 10 in S mode1
Microsoft Office 365 Home 30-day trial

Dimensions
9.65" x 6.90" x 0.33" (245 mm x 175 mm x 8.30 mm)

Weight
Starting at 1.15 lbs (522 g), not including Type Cover*

Storage3 eMMC drive: 64GB
Solid-state drive (SSD): 128GB SSD

Display
Screen: 10" PixelSense™ Display
Resolution: 1800 x 1200 (217 PPI) resolution
Aspect ratio: 3:2
Contrast ratio: 1500:1
Touch: 10-point multi-touch
Corning® Gorilla® Glass 3

Battery life
Up to 9 hours of video playback2
Processor
Intel® Pentium® Gold Processor 4415Y
Security
TPM 2.0 for enterprise security
Enterprise-grade protection with Windows Hello face sign-in

Memory
4GB or 8GB RAM

Wireless
Wi-Fi: IEEE 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac compatible
Bluetooth Wireless 4.1 technology

Connections
1 x USB-C
3.5 mm headphone jack
1 x Surface Connect port
Surface Type Cover port
microSDXC card reader
Compatible with Surface Dial* off-screen interaction

Cameras, video, and audio
Windows Hello face authentication camera (front-facing)
5.0MP front-facing camera with 1080p Skype HD video
8.0MP rear-facing autofocus camera with 1080p HD video
Single microphone
2W stereo speakers with Dolby® Audio™ Premium

Graphics
Intel® HD Graphics 615

Exterior
Casing: Magnesium
Color: Silver
Physical buttons: Volume, Power
Sensors
Ambient light sensor
Accelerometer
Gyroscope
Magnetometer
What’s in the box
Surface Go
Power supply
Quick start guide
Safety and warranty documents
Warranty
1-year limited hardware warranty
Best-in-class support from Microsoft Store
30-day return policy
90 days of free technical phone support
12 months in-store support and technical assistance
1 free training session to transfer data and optimize performance
[*] Type Cover, Surface Dial, Microsoft Office, Surface Pen, and some software and accessories sold separately.

[1] Windows 10 in S mode works exclusively with apps from the Microsoft Store within Windows and accessories that are compatible with Windows 10 in S mode. A one-way switch out of S mode is available. Learn more at Windows.com/SmodeFAQ.

[2] Testing conducted by Microsoft in June 2018 using preproduction Intel Pentium Gold 4415Y Processor, 128GB, 8 GB RAM device. Testing consisted of full battery discharge during video playback. All settings were default except: Wi-Fi was associated with a network and Auto-Brightness disabled. Battery life varies significantly with settings, usage, and other factors.

[3] System software uses significant storage space. Available storage is subject to change based on system software updates and apps usage. 1 GB= 1 billion bytes. See Surface.com/Storage for more details.

A credit card is required for pre-order, but your card will not be charged until your order is shipped or the product is made available for download. However, an authorization hold or small temporary charge may be placed on your credit or debit card as a result of your pre-order. Note that we can't charge your card and complete your order if your card expires between the date you pre-ordered the item and the date the item becomes available. Please ensure that your billing and contact information is current at all times. Pre-orders are covered by our Pre-Order Policy and can be reviewed, updated, or canceled at any time before pre-order items are released.
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#2937155 - 07/10/18 12:25 PM Re: Introducing Surface Go [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Bill H. Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 4007
Loc: Columbia River Gorge, US
From The Verge:

The base model is priced at $399, but it only ships with 4GB of RAM, 64GB of slower eMMC storage, and a less powerful Intel Pentium Gold processor. Prices quickly jump to over $600 after adding the all important Type Cover, more RAM, a faster SSD, and other Surface add-ons.

The $400-$700 price point is where PC makers typically try to shove slower components into a more premium chassis. Microsoft is pulling the same trick, and the $399 base price is a typical marketing move meant to generate interest with the hope that you’ll buy the $549 model.



I was initially interested, but after viewing the details.... umm probably not.


Edit: I found this an interesting read this morning. I confess that I didn't know much about eMMC storage beforehand.


https://www.howtogeek.com/196541/emmc-vs.-ssd-not-all-solid-state-storage-is-equal/


Edited by Bill H. (07/10/18 12:37 PM)
Edit Reason: Added thought

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#2937254 - 07/11/18 03:48 AM Re: Introducing Surface Go [Re: Bill H.]
jimkost2002 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 957
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
The storage on the base model is NOT NVME so, its a NO go (sorry for the bad pun) for running any serious music programs and only 128 gb of storage at the top.....
it’s really only an ipad competitor/alternative......
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#2937273 - 07/11/18 05:44 AM Re: Introducing Surface Go [Re: jimkost2002]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6404
Loc: USA, greater NY area
True, Jim. And yet there are so many modeled and sampled instruments for the iPad , enough variety in timbre that players on the forum are using even their iPhones as a sound module with in their rigs. It was the developers that made that happen. There's already a ton of VSTs that run on Windows - so if I were a software instrument dev, I'd be thinking about getting my stuff on the Windows app store.
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Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

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#2937276 - 07/11/18 06:13 AM Re: Introducing Surface Go [Re: ElmerJFudd]
jimkost2002 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 957
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
True, Jim. And yet there are so many modeled and sampled instruments for the iPad , enough variety in timbre that players on the forum are using even their iPhones as a sound module with in their rigs. It was the developers that made that happen. There's already a ton of VSTs that run on Windows - so if I were a software instrument dev, I'd be thinking about getting my stuff on the Windows app store.


Good points, Elmer.... only caveat is Windows App Store has NOT IMPROVED since the days of Windows Phone..... I hope MSFT has learned their lesson.....
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"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny – products which prove themselves superior in every respect.”
Robert Bosch, 1919

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#2937314 - 07/11/18 08:45 AM Re: Introducing Surface Go [Re: jimkost2002]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12709
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
it’s really only an ipad competitor/alternative......

I think that's exactly the reason they came out with this.

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
There's already a ton of VSTs that run on Windows - so if I were a software instrument dev, I'd be thinking about getting my stuff on the Windows app store.


Good points, Elmer.... only caveat is Windows App Store has NOT IMPROVED since the days of Windows Phone..... I hope MSFT has learned their lesson.....

Are there any apps on their apps store that can host VSTs? If not, I wonder if it's because MS puts restrictions on store apps that inherently prevent a VST host from meeting the requirements.
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#2937327 - 07/11/18 09:10 AM Re: Introducing Surface Go [Re: AnotherScott]
napilopez Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/18
Posts: 1
Loc: New York
A couple of things to note: You can "upgrade" out of S mode at any time for free, so that's not a particular concern. Although yes, I'd love to see the Microsoft Store populated with more apps, as these UWP apps are almost always more battery and performance efficient.

Also, while eMMC maxes out far below NVMe speeds, it can be about the same as a SATA SSD and faster than an old school spinning hard drive. Will be curious to see Microsoft's implementation here.

Also, I've been able to run large software off of a MicroSD slot on previous Surface Pro's without much issue. It really depends on just how much you need to do.

Performance wise, the Pentium Gold should be fine for most things - a bit slower than a Core m3 processor. However it's worth noting the internal graphics are actually surprisingly powerful for its category - more powerful than the HD515 in the Surface Pro 4.

But certainly, I'd opt for the 8GB model if possible.


Edited by napilopez (07/11/18 09:11 AM)
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#2937336 - 07/11/18 09:21 AM Re: Introducing Surface Go [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6404
Loc: USA, greater NY area
This has been the problem with iOS and hosts/plugins. So I would imagine developers might find a similar problem as MS locks stuff for security reasons. Of course I think users can opt out of the S mode on the hardware - but that defeats the purpose of having a market for virtual instruments that are optimised for the mobile processor, RAM and storage limitations. If the hardware becomes popular, developers will come up with solutions just like they did on iOS.
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#2937493 - 07/12/18 05:00 AM Re: Introducing Surface Go [Re: jimkost2002]
WheelHead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 490
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002

it’s really only an ipad competitor/alternative......


Perhaps in price. Surface Pros (not this) are in competition with the Macbook Air a league above iPads, imo. So this is a 'Surface Pro Lite' still not in competition with iPad, imo. Competition for iPads are iPhones and Droids, in my view.

I have 2 iPads including a Pro with an Apple Pencil and I have a Surface Pro 4 i7 with 512GB hard drive. The Surface Pro is more in league with my Macbook Pro (imo). (BTW the ridiculously long (imo), plastic Apple pencil does almost nothing compared to the SP stylus that can open apps and SP has the available, easy stylus adjustment. SP automatically connects bluetooth)

My view of iPad Pros is it is 'coming home to roost' Jobs not being at Apple pushing product design. My view: he would have never allowed Surface to pull so far ahead and probably his 'iPad' by now would run full tablet OS (not IOS) and even bootcamp.

The cap on the Apple Pencil is easy to lose since you take it off and on all the time. I have lost mine already and need to find one online.

WH

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#2937503 - 07/12/18 06:29 AM Re: Introducing Surface Go [Re: WheelHead]
jimkost2002 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 957
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Originally Posted By: WheelHead
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002

it’s really only an ipad competitor/alternative......


Perhaps in price. Surface Pros (not this) are in competition with the Macbook Air a league above iPads, imo. So this is a 'Surface Pro Lite' still not in competition with iPad, imo. Competition for iPads are iPhones and Droids, in my view.

I have 2 iPads including a Pro with an Apple Pencil and I have a Surface Pro 4 i7 with 512GB hard drive. The Surface Pro is more in league with my Macbook Pro (imo). (BTW the ridiculously long (imo), plastic Apple pencil does almost nothing compared to the SP stylus that can open apps and SP has the available, easy stylus adjustment. SP automatically connects bluetooth)

My view of iPad Pros is it is 'coming home to roost' Jobs not being at Apple pushing product design. My view: he would have never allowed Surface to pull so far ahead and probably his 'iPad' by now would run full tablet OS (not IOS) and even bootcamp.

The cap on the Apple Pencil is easy to lose since you take it off and on all the time. I have lost mine already and need to find one online.

WH


I specifically was talking about SURFACE GO (not PRO) being an iPad competitor.
It’s obvious the Surface PRO is more of an MacBook Air/Ultrabook competitor.
Surface GO is not JUST lower cost, Slower processor, HD speed and capacity as well as topping out at 128 GB RAM put it more in the ipad category PLUS its default OS isnt even FULL Win 10 but S Mode....yes, you CAN UPGRADE, but that is NOT the point as MSFT seems to have the Go tuned to the more stripped down OS.

REMEMBER that you cannot run anything in S mode that’s not a Windows App, you need the full OS to run x86 programs.

Sounds like an iPad/Chromebook competitor to me.... and MSFT is marketing it as a Chromebook competitor especially targeted for the Ed market.
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#2937519 - 07/12/18 08:12 AM Re: Introducing Surface Go [Re: WheelHead]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12709
Originally Posted By: WheelHead
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002

it’s really only an ipad competitor/alternative......


Perhaps in price. Surface Pros (not this) are in competition with the Macbook Air a league above iPads, imo. So this is a 'Surface Pro Lite' still not in competition with iPad, imo. Competition for iPads are iPhones and Droids, in my view.

Whether this Surface is better or worse than an iPad is arguable, but in terms of its potential customer, it's more of an iPad competitor than a MacBook Air or "real" Surface Pro competitor. At that's by design, MS wanted something to better go up against the lower priced iPads. Conceptually, I see what you're saying... in a sense, the iPad is a souped-up phone, this Surface is a scaled-down laptop. But MS is aiming this at the iPad market.

quote=WheelHead]My view of iPad Pros is it is 'coming home to roost' Jobs not being at Apple pushing product design. My view: he would have never allowed Surface to pull so far ahead and probably his 'iPad' by now would run full tablet OS (not IOS) and even bootcamp.[/quote]
No one knows, of course. But history tells us Jobs did not like to compromise his vision, he wanted things to be the way he thought they should be, and didn't really care about giving the customers what (they thought) they wanted. As I understand it, he didn't want smaller or larger sized iPads, so they didn't happen until after he was gone, despite others in the company pushing for them. For someone who routinely wanted to use both OSes, Bootcamp was a second-rate solution compared to other products that did not require you to reboot to switch from a Mac program to a Windows program, but it kept the Mac experience pure. He didn't want a keyboard on an iPad, he didn't want touch on a Mac... it goes back to not wanting cursor keys on the original Mac keyboard, you were only supposed to use the mouse. Everything to him was dedicated to its function, he was not the type to take the swiss army knife approach to a product or to allow customers to choose different ways to do things. His uncompromising "my way is the right way" philosophy makes me think that he would have been no quicker than today's Apple in bringing touch to the traditional computer experience, or full computer functionality to the tablet form factor.

(As an aside, I was pretty involved in the Mac world in the 1980s, regularly writing for MacWeek magazine for a while.)
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Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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#2937667 - 07/12/18 09:01 PM Re: Introducing Surface Go [Re: ElmerJFudd]
waygetter Offline
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Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
players on the forum are using even their iPhones as a sound module with in their rigs.
Here's an awesome guitarist using an iPhone app, pretty great (albeit a sound processor, not a sound generator)
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