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#2937123 - 07/10/18 09:49 AM Gibson Fake News by Fred
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11356
Loc: Northern California

www.musicradar.com/amp/news/henry-juszkiewicz-gibson-quality-control-accusations-are-fake-news <---Hi all, Brother Fred asked me to post this for him as his computer is not working at the moment. If you have any comments, let him know by posting your thoughts here. It appears the CEO of Gibson is firing back at those that accuse Gibson of low quality products.




Edited by Larryz (07/10/18 09:49 AM)
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#2937160 - 07/10/18 12:37 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Larryz]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz

www.musicradar.com/amp/news/henry-juszkiewicz-gibson-quality-control-accusations-are-fake-news <---Hi all, Brother Fred asked me to post this for him as his computer is not working at the moment. If you have any comments, let him know by posting your thoughts here. It appears the CEO of Gibson is firing back at those that accuse Gibson of low quality products.


Henry's fulla $h!t.

Honestly, I need look no further than my own main-squeeze, the 1996 Gibson Les Paul currently pictured in my Avatar-image here, for solid evidence of poor quality-control issues at Henry J's Gibson. The truss-rod access was routed unusually shallow and short, and the headstock was apparently milled after the truss-rod and its nut were installed, as its nut was sheered at the same angle and plane level with the face of the headstock. There was a LOT of goopy red lacquer on the body and fretboard binding in numerous places, which I cleaned away myself. The neck has a slight twist to it- fortunately, this leaves a little more relief under the bass-strings; if it were the other way around, it would be unplayable.

I purchased the guitar "used", albeit essentially in "brand-new" condition, and only a few months (two or so?) after its original owner had received it as a Christmas present, and then traded it in straight-up, no cash, for TWO used but recently-made like-new Fenders, a Strat and a Tele. The store-owner "passed the savings on to me", and I payed around a grand for a guitar that had listed new at the time for $3,600.00. There was enough of what I liked and wanted- loved and needed- in that guitar at the time, so I've lived with its imperfections. Over the years its exceptionally hot stock pickups and acoustic tone and response to feedback have worked very well, indeed, for my personal style, technique, and approach. Seriously, though, it should never have left the factory that way, even in the days when Gibson released "Factory Seconds"!

I've seen some new Gibsons on-the-rack that were definitely sub-standard, and also some that were exceptionally stellar instruments. Most fell in-between.

I won't even get into the loathsome customer-service that I received from Gibson when I needed my other Les Paul repaired and restored after a house-fire; effectively, truth be told, Gibson ate my guitar, not the fire!
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#2937167 - 07/10/18 01:08 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
CEB Offline
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I was going to buy a new 2018 SG Junior today. I just can't do it. All 4 have minute imperfections also. I mean in the 70s you would find imperfections ... they are JRs. Norlin put out some sketchy stuff also. But now for $1,426 I can't do it.
FWIW The 2019 Junior is going to suck. No dog ear, Front route double cut, Guard mounted pickup. .... It sucks. Everything that made the Junior cool is gone from the 2019. I will probably build a 59 kit or get a Hamer.... Forget the whole idea. I have plenty of guitars.


Edited by CEB (07/10/18 01:12 PM)
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#2937174 - 07/10/18 01:39 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: CEB]
Winston Psmith Offline
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$1426 for a Junior? Used SG Specials go from around $450 to $600, used Standards from around $650 up to right around a grand. For that $1426, you could have two or three nice used ones, and maybe get a case thrown in.

Meanwhile, Henry J. is criticizing the players who are criticizing his product line? Way to win customers . . .
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#2937186 - 07/10/18 02:30 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Winston Psmith]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Typical Henry J dickheadedness. Every new Gibson I've picked up in the last decade (admittedly not a lot, but including a handful of ES137s) has been inferior to every Korean mid-market archtop Gretsch or Epiphone I've owned (more than a handful at this point.)
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#2937197 - 07/10/18 03:30 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Winston Psmith]
CEB Offline
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I can find used SG Standards cheaper than I can find Juniors right now. There just aren't any and what I see on Reverb is priced ridiculous. I don't know what the deal is. What is available at less than $1000 always seem to be those 2015 things with the brass nuts and junk automatic tuners Gibson never provided replacement batteries for.
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#2937200 - 07/10/18 03:43 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Scott Fraser]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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There used to be a guitar store near me that stocked Gibson, G&L, and Reverend. I went in there shopping with enough $$$ at my disposal to buy any 2 guitars they had...

At the time, I had no clue as to Gibson’s alleged QC issues.

I loved the Reverends and G&Ls, and was having trouble deciding which I wanted. But when I went into their Gibson Room, I was thoroughly disappointed. Every guitar had at least one issue I wouldn’t tolerate on a $700 guitar, much less one twice the price.

(I eventually bought my first Reverend.)

The experience was doubly disappointing because my USUAL shop had just had-and sold- a trio of gorgeous SGs. They were all $3000+, in ruby red, emerald green, and sapphire blue metal flake finishes. I noticed no defects on any of them.

So then, as now, I knew Gibson could make killer axes. And now, as then, I have personally seen enough inconsistency that I can’t in good conscience recommend buying a new Gibson online.
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#2937204 - 07/10/18 03:52 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
desertbluesman Offline
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I had a 2002 manufactured SG Faded with ebony fingerboard and half moon inlays, hands down it was the very finest instrument I have ever owned (in play-ability that is, it was a homely but exceptionally excellent instrument).

I paid $599.99 for it, and a hundred bucks for the case. I played it for 15 years, it never needed a single thing done to it except a neck truss rod adjustment once or twice. I just sold it in excellent shape for $750 cash. That means I made fifty bucks on it profit, played it for 15 years trouble free and made money on it. I would call that a big winner.
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#2937229 - 07/10/18 08:04 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: desertbluesman]
Larryz Offline
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I bought an LP Custom this past year for $1,600 and I truly love it. However, it has an input/output jack that needs to be replaced. I'm not going to bother with the warranty and just have it fixed to my specs. (I'll do the same with my Epi ES-175, which I will have fixed at the same time as it has another jack issue on it too). I can't believe Epi or Gibson lets them go out of the shop this way. But fixing a jack is no big deal and I'm really enjoying both guitars flaws and all... cool
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#2937232 - 07/10/18 08:36 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Larryz]
Bartholomew Offline
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Registered: 02/29/04
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Loc: Montreal
74 Les Paul Custom in my avatar - actually is stamped "second" on the back of the headstock. Not the greatest finish, may not really match in places but plays pretty good with SD pickups. Got it cheap from a friend who was an acoustic player. Had to put approx $750 into repairs, upgrades, plane warped fretboard, frets, nut, etc plus I gave him an acoustic 12 string that cost me $250 also used. Hell of a deal but I bought him drinks for a year and gave him a $150 X-Mas gift.

Also have a 2012 LP Studio with hot pickups came in with a bad input jack, intermittent short-out on one volume control from a ground strand that was stray not soldered properly plus a 3 way switch that was loose, rotated and broke the solder connections in first 3 months also had a static problem for the first couple of years. From Musician's Friend - probably could have returned it but was simpler to just have it done here. Gibson factory Plek-job was useless, I can do a better set-up, the guy who signed the quality control card had bad ears for intonation.

Still never found anything I play as well as a Les Paul but sometimes prefer to do retro rock & roll tracks with a tele.
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#2937293 - 07/11/18 07:25 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Bartholomew]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bartholomew
Still never found anything I play as well as a Les Paul but sometimes prefer to do retro rock & roll tracks with a tele.


That last part is key. I've been playing SG's since 1973/74 . . . it's been a while. I've played lots of other makes and models, and still have a few Guitars that are neither Gibson/Epiphone, nor SG's, but nothing else feels like an SG in my hands. I do a lot of retro-fitting on mine, and I do my own set-ups and adjustments, but there's no way I could build my own SG. Having two on hand, it's not likely that I'll be buying another one anytime soon, if at all, but I'm not giving them up, either.
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#2937544 - 07/12/18 09:16 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Winston Psmith]
Sharkman Offline
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In defense of Henry J (I can't believe I actually said those words), what else is he supposed to say? If he was being completely honest, and said something like "Yes, our quality control is pretty bad for a product with these kind of prices on them, but I'm way over my head in debt, and I have to cut corners and save money to try to be able to pay off all that debt. Besides, our brand name has enough loyalty that a lot of customers will buy whatever crap we put out.", then he'd have to close up shop by the end of the week.

Henry knows that he's putting out a substandard product. We all know that he's putting out a substandard product. But he's painted himself into a corner, and he's desperate to get out. If Henry were to tell everyone that the Gibsons of today are not as good as they used to be, or as good as they should be, that's the same as telling people to not buy his product. It is time for Henry to bring out the old "I want to spend more time with my family" line that nobody with a three digit IQ ever believes, but sounds good. He needs to voluntarily retire to save himself the disgrace of being fired for running a great company into the ground.
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#2937545 - 07/12/18 09:20 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Sharkman]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
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Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Quote:
In defense of Henry J (I can't believe I actually said those words), what else is he supposed to say?


Most CEOs who have gotten into situations like that and succeeded in getting out of them admit the issue, talk about steps they’re taking or planning to take to rectify the situation, and then try to actually implement those plans.

Customers really hate being bullshitted. But Americans (in particular) love second chances.


Edited by Dannyalcatraz (07/12/18 09:21 AM)
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#2937614 - 07/12/18 01:09 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
Quote:
In defense of Henry J (I can't believe I actually said those words), what else is he supposed to say?


Most CEOs who have gotten into situations like that and succeeded in getting out of them admit the issue, talk about steps they’re taking or planning to take to rectify the situation, and then try to actually implement those plans.

Customers really hate being bullshitted. But Americans (in particular) love second chances.


Second chances are one thing, but as the old saying goes, ". . . fool me twice, shame on me." FWIW, I thought any potential bail-out depended on Henry J vacating the premises.

Gibson under Henry J is like the boy who cried Wolf, threatening bankruptcy, cutting skilled labor, now railing back at consumers, as if that's going to help sales, or morale within the dwindling workforce. I wonder who he thinks he's going to win over?

If the Guitar market isn't growing, and you manage to drive off your oldest, most faithful customers, who are more likely to have the money to invest in (what should be) a pro-quality Instrument, what next, rely on Epiphone sales to carry the day, or cut corners until there's only a shell of a company left?

We've seen a run of products and features no one asked for, paired with continued price hikes. Some classic product lines have been discontinued, among them, the SG Special. Advertising is WAY down, from what I've seen in several recent catalogs, from different companies. In the meantime, even Epiphone products have seen a jump in price, since the bankruptcy announcement: the LP Standard went from $419.99 to $499.99, within months, almost a 20% markup, for what? Yes, the new high $$$ Epi's are nicely made, in some cases (some) with even better QC, but if it's come to the point where we're looking to the budget brand for what was Gibson quality, that kind of says it all.

Henry J deserves the flak, and if he doesn't like it, he could make a lot of people very happy by walking off the job. Like the old saying has it, "Don't go away mad, just go away."

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#2937628 - 07/12/18 02:42 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Winston Psmith]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Quote:
FWIW, I thought any potential bail-out depended on Henry J vacating the premises.


That’s my understanding as well. It may be that he’s just a talking head now, or will be ousted at the end of Gibson’s business year. Or some such.
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http://murphysmusictx.com/

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#2937778 - 07/13/18 11:53 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
CEB Offline
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What the heck. New Jr.s are $300 cheaper in Germany than they are here. I can pay overseas shipping and save about $260.

All the Gibson stock is cheaper.


Edited by CEB (07/13/18 11:53 AM)
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#2937780 - 07/13/18 11:59 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: CEB]
CEB Offline
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Sh!t

Quote:
We are quite disappointed with Gibson for preventing us from shipping to your country of choice. Please consider products of a different manufacturer or switch to another delivery country. Remove this item
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"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

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#2937936 - 07/15/18 05:55 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: CEB]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Registered: 02/15/10
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Originally Posted By: CEB
Sh!t

Quote:
We are quite disappointed with Gibson for preventing us from shipping to your country of choice. Please consider products of a different manufacturer or switch to another delivery country. Remove this item


Unless you've got close friends in Canada?
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#2938560 - 07/19/18 12:21 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Bartholomew]
Darklava Offline
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I've never played a perfect guitar no matter what brand or how much I spent but I sure love my 2010 traditional plus
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#2938635 - 07/20/18 04:15 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Darklava]
whitefang Offline
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Yeah, those axes always did look nice. wink

I guess we can paraphrase what the instructor of my wedding photography classes said when asked, "Which is the best camera to use?" His answer---"The one you own." wink Meaning that they're all basically the same, just some might have a few of those "little" differences that make it more preferable to you. smile Same with guitars in that they (let's take 6-strings for example) all have the same amount of strings, get tuned the same( basically) and(basically) look about the same, but you might prefer one slightly different design or make than another for some certain reason or another.
Whitefang
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#2938753 - 07/20/18 10:11 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Darklava]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Hey, Darklava! L0O0O0O0NG time, no see!

Originally Posted By: Darklava
I've never played a perfect guitar no matter what brand or how much I spent but I sure love my 2010 traditional plus
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#2938996 - 07/23/18 08:32 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Darklava Offline
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What up Mr O'Shite
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#2939042 - 07/23/18 02:23 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Darklava]
zeronyne Offline
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With all of these guitar bloggers enjoying success, I wish one of them would stop raving over some obscure pedal and just sneak into a guitar center with a camera and point out the problem with each LP. And I'm not saying this to indict GC...it's just a fairly anonymous venue to examine a wide range of Les Pauls.
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#2939109 - 07/24/18 04:24 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: zeronyne]
whitefang Offline
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With THREE of them within a 40-mile radius of my home, and the number of forum members who discuss it both favorably and UNFAVORABLY, I'd say there's NOTHING "anonymous" about GC as a venue. wink
Whitefang
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#2939147 - 07/24/18 07:29 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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IMHO, I don't think our forum members need to sneak into a local GC with a camera and point out all the obvious LP flaws that are on the rack. We have more than enough LP and SG and other Gibson owners, some of which have commented on the flaws right here on this thread. While we may bitch and moan, the consensus seems to be that most of us would not give ours up and still prefer them over a lot of other manufactures products.

One of my all-time favorite guitars was my tobacco sunburst Les Paul Deluxe which I bought back around '72. I played it on stage up until '83. I sold it for more than I paid for it around '85 and have always regretted it. This past year I decided to replace it with a cherry sunburst LP classic with 57 humbuckers and I love it. It brought back a lot of memories as soon as I picked it up. It has a input/output jack flaw which I am going to have replaced and it's not for sale LOL! cool


Edited by Larryz (07/24/18 09:05 AM)
Edit Reason: sp
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#2939149 - 07/24/18 07:32 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: whitefang]
The Real MC Offline
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My brother has a '69 Custom and had been pushing me to get a LP.

While on vacation ten years ago I spent a few days in Nashville and had found the Gibson outlet store near the Opry. Racks wall to wall of LPs, there had to be a few hundred of them.

Not one single LP I picked up in that store was any good. Poor workmanship. Sharp fret ends that would cut your digits as you slid around the neck. Fret buzz from improperly installed frets or poor neck construction. Tonewoods with dog tone.

I lived through the 1970s Norlin era and didn't think it could get worse than that - I was wrong. I swore off production guitars from Gibson.

A few months later I did eventually buy a LP from a GC. I thought it was a used guitar because of the pitting on the nickel hardware. Turned out it was an "aged" VOS from the custom shop, and it's a player's axe with none of the quality issues that come from the production line. That guitar has a lot of friends. The only thing I changed is the Asian "fake" Kluson tuners - I never even adjusted the pickup heights!

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#2939168 - 07/24/18 08:52 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: The Real MC]
Winston Psmith Offline
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@The Real MC - Outlet stores are almost always dumping grounds for factory 2nds. Still, indicative of the QC issues overall.

@Whitefang - In fairness, as a long-time Gibson player, and as someone who sold Guitars, GC is almost the worst possible environment for checking out Electric Guitars. Spending months hanging by their necks in a room with little or no humidity control, collecting dust in their electronics, and being manhandled by any bored kid who wanders in, hell, it's a wonder they don't all look and feel like yard sale Guitars. Also, there's no way you can convince me that the staff are spending any time cleaning, tuning and adjusting the Instruments in stock, unless someone is looking to buy a particular Instrument, in which case, they'll find a Tuner somewhere.
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#2939328 - 07/25/18 04:06 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Winston Psmith]
whitefang Offline
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Well, I never SAID they were "great" places, just that there's enough of them that they're not really "anonymous" venues.

And I'm in agreement. When I did venture in one a couple of times, I DID have to dust off the instruments I tried out. wink
Whitefang
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#2939343 - 07/25/18 06:23 AM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: whitefang]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Well, I never SAID they were "great" places, just that there's enough of them that they're not really "anonymous" venues.

And I'm in agreement. When I did venture in one a couple of times, I DID have to dust off the instruments I tried out. wink
Whitefang


@Whitefang - If you flip the context, GC is "anonymous" in the sense that if you're not a regular customer, or someone they would recognize, it is a place where you can slip in, check out a bunch of Guitars to critique, and be gone, without anyone knowing who you are, or caring why you were there. Otherwise, I'd agree, GC is hardly anonymous, but the people who go in and out of the stores can be.
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#2939950 - 07/27/18 03:58 PM Re: Gibson Fake News by Fred [Re: Winston Psmith]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11356
Loc: Northern California
Speaking of Gibsons, I just picked up my Gibson Les Paul and my Epi ES-175 from my new tech. He did a great job setting up both of them and repairing the jacks. They play and sound great! What a difference a set up can make. I'm truly a happy camper now. I'm going to order some strings and have about 3 more guitars (Taylors and a Takamine) set up as he does acoustics too. The cool thing is he only lives 5 minutes from my house and works out of his home... cool
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