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#2937048 - 07/10/18 06:11 AM Journey - Don't Stop Believing
hipogrito Offline
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Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 72
Loc: East Northport,NY
Hi,

Last year there was a great article about Journey's Don't Stop Believing at Keyboard Mag https://www.keyboardmag.com/lessons/song...t-stop-believin
written by mr. Cain himself.

The only thing that I'm missing there and therefore my question to the gurus here, what was the brand of the piano used in the original studio recording of this song? Does anybody know?

Thanks,
Fran

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#2937054 - 07/10/18 06:25 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: hipogrito]
Joe P Offline
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Paging Mr. EscapeRocks, paging Mr. EscapeRocks.... smile

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#2937057 - 07/10/18 06:36 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: hipogrito]
The Real MC Offline
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I know he was using the Yamaha electric grand in the early days of Journey.

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#2937058 - 07/10/18 06:41 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: The Real MC]
Wastrel Offline
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Posts: 2651
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Originally Posted By: The Real MC
I know he was using the Yamaha electric grand in the early days of Journey.

It certainly sounds like one.
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#2937070 - 07/10/18 07:38 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: Wastrel]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Hey guys, next time don't send up the Bat Signal so early....I was sleeping smile

First, yes, during the very early days for live use, Jon did use a CP-70, with a Prophet 5 and Korg CX-3.

The red Yamaha Grand (The Whale) made it's debut on the MTV simulcast at the end of 1981.

Now then as far as recording Don't Stop. I, too, at first thought it was CP-70. I was wrong.

It was a Steinway Grand at the studio.
The string parts are an Arp Omni
Both were run thru a Roland Dimension D chorus. That's how the opening piano almost has a slight phaser effect.

His Arp Omni was "left over" from his days with the Baby's

The key to getting the piano sound for DSB is to setup a chorus with a VERY slow rate, yet make it very wet. Then roll off the high end. Then of course you need to play it with serious dynamics. You will get a feel for it.

For my Mainstage rig:
Currently I am using PianoTeq Steinway D. I run it thru a BlueCat Audio Chorus, and an iKMultimedia T-Racks TR-5 Classic EQ.
For the string part, I use Arturia's Solina V from the V-Collection 6. EQ'd and Chorus'd slightly to taste.
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#2937088 - 07/10/18 08:03 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: EscapeRocks]
hipogrito Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 72
Loc: East Northport,NY
WOW, That's why this forum rocks so much!

twothumbs

Thanks!

Regards,
Fran

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#2937093 - 07/10/18 08:09 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: hipogrito]
EscapeRocks Offline
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you're welcome!
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#2937097 - 07/10/18 08:19 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: EscapeRocks]
bennyray Offline
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Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 926
Since David does the Journey tribute thing and knows all Journey stuff.
I thought I would share this interesting article about JC. Didn't know he was using the V-piano from time to time.

https://www.keyboardmag.com/artists/jonathan-cain-rock-and-roll-believer
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#2937101 - 07/10/18 08:28 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: bennyray]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Registered: 08/12/03
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Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: bennyray
Since David does the Journey tribute thing and knows all Journey stuff.
I thought I would share this interesting article about JC. Didn't know he was using the V-piano from time to time.

https://www.keyboardmag.com/artists/jonathan-cain-rock-and-roll-believer



Thank you for that.

Yeah, it got to be too much of a hassle to haul the big Fazioli everywhere, night after night, and keep it tuned, among other things.

He went with the Roland V, Jupiter 80, Triton Studio, and this year replaced the Korg organ with a Hammond XK5.

One thing not mentioned is he now uses a Mackie DL1608 mixer. It's the one you slide an iPad into.
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#2937127 - 07/10/18 10:03 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: EscapeRocks]
Dreamchilde Offline
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#2937133 - 07/10/18 10:49 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: Dreamchilde]
JohnH Offline
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Registered: 05/05/06
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The book was really good. I was apprehensive after seeing a recent Steve Mcqueen Doc that only was there to get you to hear the makers' agenda it was going to have his current agenda on every single page, but only the last few pages has it. It's well written and well done. I recommend it.

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#2937201 - 07/10/18 03:47 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: JohnH]
Pianolando Offline
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Registered: 05/25/14
Posts: 20
Ha! I could have sworn that it was a CP-70/80! You learn something new every day, thanks for the info!

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#2937237 - 07/10/18 11:26 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: Pianolando]
vanderSchoot Offline
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Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 576
Loc: The Netherlands
As a forum CP70 owner i think ‘don’t stop believing’ is a real piano turned into some dyno piano by harmonizers or an added phasy second take.
The CP70 had a muddy bass register due to extremely short bass strings.
On octave would always sound detuned in the bass, because of the upper harmonics and lacking fundamentals.

The journey intro sounds to open and transparent for a CP70,....... i am almost sure of it

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#2937419 - 07/11/18 05:11 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: vanderSchoot]
Moonglow Offline
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Registered: 03/15/03
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Mr. EscapeRocks rocked it, as usual. twothumbs I too, recall that it was a Steinway. From Jonathan’s first cover story in Keyboard magazine, I believe he said it was a “bright” sounding piano.

I like how Jonathan has changed the synth patch over years. Most recently he has been using a fat synth brass program in his Jupiter-80.
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#2937423 - 07/11/18 06:04 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: EscapeRocks]
llatham Offline
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Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 338
Quote:
It was a Steinway Grand at the studio.


This is what is always interesting about questions like this. Happens all the time on the guitar forums as well. "What did so and so use" and everyone's like "well on tour, he had this" and "in the picture he had this" and I'm always the voice of reason going, "um, just because that's what they had on tour doesn't mean that's what was recorded in the studio".

Heck, sometimes it's not even an actual band member playing the part!

I never suspected this was anything but a real piano.

Every time someone has mentioned in the past that it was some kind of digital or electronic stage piano etc. I'm just like, "there's no way".

So, sure enough, vindicated.

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#2937464 - 07/11/18 10:43 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: llatham]
clpete Offline
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Registered: 02/05/09
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I split the right and left hand to control levels. On the right hand I layer a Grand and an Electric Grand. The left hand is just the Grand.
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#2937647 - 07/12/18 06:27 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: clpete]
J. Dan Online   content
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Originally Posted By: clpete
I split the right and left hand to control levels. On the right hand I layer a Grand and an Electric Grand. The left hand is just the Grand.


Overly complex and unnecessary. I use a piano sound with chorus and, well, play it. Sounds perfect. Top keyboard has the synth.
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#2937678 - 07/12/18 11:00 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: J. Dan]
clpete Offline
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Registered: 02/05/09
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Loc: Oregon
Really, layering two sounds is complex? I don’t think it’s any more complex than setting up a chorus. The two pianos I layer on “Don’t” work for me. I also layer an electric grand with a grand on Home Sweet Home.

Almost all my live piano patches contain a layer of different pianos. Grand piano sounds often don’t cut through the mix but adding an upright/bright or electric they will. Maybe this is due to the Roland piano’s.
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#2937816 - 07/13/18 04:45 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: J. Dan]
jerrythek Offline
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Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 1014
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
Originally Posted By: clpete
I split the right and left hand to control levels. On the right hand I layer a Grand and an Electric Grand. The left hand is just the Grand.


Overly complex and unnecessary. I use a piano sound with chorus and, well, play it. Sounds perfect. Top keyboard has the synth.


If it works for him and makes him happy? Go for it. I too like to blend in a little CP-70... The Journey police haven't shown up to my gigs so I get away with it.

Not picking a fight, just sharing... But seriously, thanks for the real answer. Always good to know.

like

Jerry

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#2937821 - 07/13/18 07:33 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: clpete]
MotiDave Offline
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Registered: 12/04/12
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Originally Posted By: clpete
Really, layering two sounds is complex? I don’t think it’s any more complex than setting up a chorus. The two pianos I layer on “Don’t” work for me. I also layer an electric grand with a grand on Home Sweet Home.

Almost all my live piano patches contain a layer of different pianos. Grand piano sounds often don’t cut through the mix but adding an upright/bright or electric they will. Maybe this is due to the Roland piano’s.


I tend to layer two pianos too whenever I can (don’t start losing notes due to polyphony headroom, have an extra channel/patch). To me it sounds a bit better as I get characteristics of a fuller warmer piano combined with one that cuts thru sharper. Not right or wrong, i just do it because i like it. On this song, i do crank up some chorus as well.

I only use one keyboard for this song. I switch pianos off / brass synth on at the appropo song point. I see some guys play a piano variation of the intro/verse riffs through the ending half of the song. Sounds good, i just like the synth in that section personally but its a cool variation on a theme. Once the song is past the piano-only portion and the guitar comes in strong, its ok to go where you want on keys. I stick to the OG script as i like the synth coming in.


Edited by MotiDave (07/13/18 07:33 PM)
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#2937869 - 07/14/18 10:17 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: MotiDave]
Rod S Offline
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Keyboard players play this song wrong >90% of the time in bands I've seen. They just play what looks like the right chord inversion in the intro instead of the open voicings he uses. Ruins it for me everytime.

Appreciate the comments on the light phaser effect. Went and listened to it more closely.

I played this song as a piano&voice duet years ago; was never fully satisfied with the comping for the middle sections (part that alternates between A and E root), but it worked.
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#2937872 - 07/14/18 11:03 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: Rod S]
MathOfInsects Offline
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Never heard the song.
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#2937875 - 07/14/18 12:02 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: MathOfInsects]
eric Offline
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I was in a band a few years ago that was an offshoot of my main band but with a female vocalist. We did this song and it was a lot of fun.

I was unaware of what was used in the original recording prior to reading this thread. This is how I approached the sound on my NS2.

I created a layered Grand Piano and CP-70 sound using each sound on a separate panel. I had the Grand Piano sound balanced higher. I used a slightly different chorus and delay effect on each piano sound and this worked really well. I had it set up so as I dug in more to the keyboard, the sparkly CP-70 sound would come out more and this was a lot of fun to play.

I set up the synth brassy sound with a morph assigned to the control pedal, so I could just sweep the pedal to switch between piano and synth. This worked out quite well.

I love that song and really enjoyed playing it.

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#2937883 - 07/14/18 01:43 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: eric]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Middle parts... "street lights people...."




Edited by EscapeRocks (07/14/18 01:44 PM)
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#2937887 - 07/14/18 01:49 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: EscapeRocks]
jerrythek Offline
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Registered: 04/19/04
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Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
Middle parts... "street lights people...."




Exactly! I hear so many people play a B triad for the first voicing. Wrong!

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#2937891 - 07/14/18 02:48 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: jerrythek]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Jerry!

Yep... such a relatively simple song that so many get the voicing wrong on many of the parts.
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#2937926 - 07/15/18 01:35 AM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: EscapeRocks]
J. Dan Online   content
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People just don't listen to the songs they're learning. Piano, E, got it, then some synth. Preset 1 will do.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2937986 - 07/15/18 12:59 PM Re: Journey - Don't Stop Believing [Re: J. Dan]
vanderSchoot Offline
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Registered: 12/24/10
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
People just don't listen to the songs they're learning. Piano, E, got it, then some synth. Preset 1 will do.

like like like

At the gymn i visit twice a week, i hear many cover songs of the eighties.... or implemented phrases in modern dance / techno productions.
First thing i noticed that many synth solo lines were so much better and fatter in the orginal recordings
And that ‘Diva’ , Zebra, FM8 can probably get you all the way for 90% if the composer actually bothers to spend some time with it.
It crosses my mind too;.....yet another predictable sound that we know so well from the presets. smile

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