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#2932367 - 06/12/18 05:59 AM Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay
MuzikTeechur Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 1592
Loc: Kittery, Maine
Hey all;
Having played my first gig 40 years ago, I thought perhaps I had encountered everything, but we all know there's always something else...

Played with one of my side bands last Friday night at a social club. Good band, decent crowd, nothing special.
Before the gig, the band leader remarked that Dave, the sound guy, wouldn't be there. I asked why, assuming that it was because it was a small club/short pay sort of deal. The band leader, Nat, replied that there were "some things going on" with Dave, and I left it at that. Now, Dave, the sound guy, usually brings his own board, mains, and subs. Nat told me that he would "run sound from the stage."
I think that running sound from the stage is, at best, not good. No way to hear what's truly going on out front, and if you're playing your guitar, you're not running sound (and vice versa). Nevertheless, Nat brought his mains (no subs), and shitty little 12-channel board and we all plugged in.
As an aside, this is not the first time I've played in this band without a sound man. There were no issues - including pay - before.
When Dave was running sound, we'd all kick in 10% of our pay to the sound guy.

So, at the end of the night, I was given my pay - less the cut for the sound guy - and Nat said: "Since I'm doing sound, I'm taking the sound guy pay. Sorry - I had discussed it with the other guys at the last gig (I was sick and wasn't there) and they all knew."

To my credit, I didn't say a word, but I guess the expression on my face gave me away.

The next day, I got a voicemail from Nat where he expressed regret that I found out about the "arrangement" after the gig.
I really couldn't care less about when I found out, and am more puzzled by him getting double pay for, as he puts it: "bringing the PA and running sound." We all help load in and out, and, as a sound guy, he sucks. Even if he were Quincy F-ing Jones, you can't run sound from the stage - certainly not well enough to warrant full sound-guy pay.
And, since he'd run sound before and NOT gotten paid, what has changed that he thinks he deserves it now?
I mean - I play keys AND sing AND play sax - should I get triple pay (well, yeah?!)?

I haven't responded yet because I'm trying to be mature, and I do enjoy this band, AND my agent is one of the singers so I wouldn't want to piss anyone off. It's not really the money, it's the principle.

Your thoughts?
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Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine.

HS music teacher: Concert Band, Marching Band, Jazz Band, Music Theory, AP Music Theory, Music History, Musical Theatre, Piano, Guitar, Drama.


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#2932370 - 06/12/18 06:24 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: MuzikTeechur]
DanL Online   content
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Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 4202
Loc: DE
I haul half the PA and all of the lights in one of my bands. The drummer hauls the rest of the PA and mixes from stage using IEMs. Neither of us would ever think of taking an extra cut. My wife has complained that I should get more because I book the band, haul and own the gear etc, but if I did that, then I wouldn't expect ANY help from the rest of the band in setup/teardown, and I value that assistance more than making a couple extra bucks.

In this situation- do you guys help set up/ carry gear when the regular sound guy is there? I wouldn't. That's what he gets paid for.
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#2932373 - 06/12/18 06:25 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: MuzikTeechur]
GregC Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5443
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
1 Man Band.

Keep the singer/vocalist.
Create that partnership.

Minimal drama.
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#2932377 - 06/12/18 06:50 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: MuzikTeechur]
Wastrel Offline
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Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 2584
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: MuzikTeechur
The band leader, Nat, replied that there were "some things going on" with Dave,

Did you ever find out what "Things" were going on with Dave? Maybe the BL just cut him loose so he (the BL) could draw a double cut.
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#2932384 - 06/12/18 07:09 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: Wastrel]
drawback Online   happy
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Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3518
Loc: Canada
If your agent is in the band, maybe have a conversation with him/her and see what’s up.
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#2932394 - 06/12/18 08:02 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: drawback]
MuzikTeechur Offline
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Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 1592
Loc: Kittery, Maine
To clarify: when the regular sound guy was there, yes, everyone helped load in/out. For me, hauling two keyboards, stand, cords, bench, two saxes, etc. I was usually in on the tail-end of that arrangement. I'd grab whatever equipment was left to go in or out. Same thing with the drummer's stuff: he always has a shit-ton of traps and stands and such and I always grab an armful of his stuff.
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#2932396 - 06/12/18 08:20 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: MuzikTeechur]
BluMunk Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 686
Loc: Burlington, VT
If everyone is drawing the same paycheck except for the guy who took extra to 'cover' sound, then yes, he's kind of being a jerk to everyone else.

When something unexpected happens, you all chip in. Occasionally running sound with sub-par gear does not mean that you automatically get paid what the sound guy would get, it means you split that money amongst the players who are there to make up for having to do a gig with crappy sound.

That said, he is the band leader; what's the vibe of this outfit? If he's paying everyone a different scale than he pays himself anyway, then, well, this is par for the course. If, however, it's a more friendly and less mercenary situation, then he's kind of being a jerk.

So, if it's a 'friendly' kind of situation, I'd bring it up, for sure. If you're all in it together, it's important that people know when they're pissing on other people. If it's just a band for hire, and the band leader arranges all the money anyway, then he gets to call those shots, love it or leave it.

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#2932397 - 06/12/18 08:24 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: MuzikTeechur]
Morrisseysixman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 173
Loc: Midwest
Lonnie,
You express being bothered by the principle of the matter. I would probably be upset about this on principle, too... and for me the principle is "transparency." The BL should've given you your full cut at the end of the gig, and then he could've explained that the other guys were giving him the soundguy's cut and sought your approval to give him that cut FOR FUTURE GIGS not this one. That would've empowered you to consent or to negotiate a more acceptable situation.

You might point out to the BL that bringing the P.A. and running sound are actually two separate tasks -- it sounds like you might be more accepting of the idea that whoever brings the PA should get some extra money for that hassle... but maybe that would be a flat fee rather than the percentage model you use for a sound man who is literally running sound the entire gig.

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#2932398 - 06/12/18 08:28 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: Morrisseysixman]
Stokely Online   content
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Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1842
Loc: Florida
I think for him to get that extra cut he should have stated it up front. He made the mistake in not making it clear.

Back when our PA and lights took ages to load in and set up, our drummer and bass player did all of that before the rest of us got off work. Our band leader (singer) used to give most of the tips to them and maybe some extra. Nowadays our PA is much smaller and more organized, load and setup is a breeze (30 minutes in a pinch from cars to first note).

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#2932399 - 06/12/18 08:32 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: MuzikTeechur]
Reezekeys Offline
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Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2712
Loc: NYC area
In my old wedding band, we didn't use a sound man or sound company, and the way it worked was – he who brings the PA gets a little extra taste (it was usually the leader). He brought it himself, shlepped it himself, and set it up himself. Nobody had a problem with that – it's a lot of extra work and I would expect to be compensated. Not for "running sound", mind you... just for the shlep!

So in your situation, your leader set a precedent by bringing a PA and running sound before without taking a cut. Now he's changing the playbook so I can see why you'd be peeved. Do you have a PA? Think about bringing it & setting it up, in addition to all your gear. Would that be worth 10% of everyone's pay to you?

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#2932402 - 06/12/18 08:50 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: Reezekeys]
sagetunes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/14
Posts: 319
Loc: Rhode Island
My advice to the OP, let it go, forget it. Even though you are 100% correct on the principle, fukk the principle. If you've been playing gigs for 40 years, you're about as old as I am; we're on the back 9. Enjoy the round, grab a beer at the 19th hole.

HOWEVER, if this turns into an perpetual arrangement, now you speak up, reinforcing it ain't about the cash, its about having a sound guy, and only having to kick in 10% sounds like a bargain to me.
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#2932408 - 06/12/18 09:23 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: sagetunes]
MuzikTeechur Offline
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Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 1592
Loc: Kittery, Maine
To questions: BluMonk; yes, it's a friendly sort of band, bandleader has expressly said, on several occasions, that everyone gets an "equal" split, no agent on this one, so nobody to pay a percentage to.

Reezekeys: nobody's showing up early, or doing heroic extra work.

This band is kind of an "all-star" (without the stars) band made up of several bands in the agent's "stable." We all have other, full-time bands. We were all looking to fill in some spots on our schedule and this band does that nicely. The main benefit to me has been the networking aspect: it's worth more to me to be known as a guy who can be called last-minute and reliably fill-in for someone if needed, or if there's a special gig where a band who wouldn't normally have a keyboard player wants to hire one, I get the call. Not a ton of versatile keyboard players in this area. Guitarists are falling out of the trees. smile
I LIKE this guy (Nat, the Band Leader) and to this point he's been super easy to work with. Probably still is, I'm just trying to work through this wrinkle.
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Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine.

HS music teacher: Concert Band, Marching Band, Jazz Band, Music Theory, AP Music Theory, Music History, Musical Theatre, Piano, Guitar, Drama.


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#2932410 - 06/12/18 09:25 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: sagetunes]
timwat Offline
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Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5601
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
Lonnie,

I concur with Morrisseysixman - the primary issue at hand is transparency. When any organization has less than full transparency, there's frictional drag caused by the questions people ask themselves in lieu of real information - like the questions you're asking yourself and asking us. And that can eventually grow to all kinds of bad things. As you already said, it isn't really about the money. I would suggest it's about the health of your band.

The only long-term solution is sitting down and having a friendly, non-accusatory, honest conversation with Nat. We will all have our opinions, but each of our opinions are rooted in our own past experience, band contexts, and what we're willing to accept / not willing to accept - and that personal variance may make it not all that relevant to your band situation.

It may be that you deem the total $$ amount lost to the alternate-dimension sound guy (like when Spoke had a beard) isn't worth the hassle / possible drama / etc.

But I might suggest that if you allow the lack of transparency to continue, there will be other occasions where lack of transparency / communication rears its ugly head and you find yourself asking questions again about what's acceptable / normal / ethical.

Again, the secret sauce in all this is advancing honest, friendly, non-finger-pointing communication. No one likes to be accused (especially if you've just done something questionable), and going in with the goal of reconciliation (rather than judgement, subpoena or deposition) will help things tons.

You may have already considered all this, you've been on the forum a long time like me and you've always come across even-handed, rational and considerate. Just my 0.02 as I read you post and our responses so far.

Tim
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#2932412 - 06/12/18 09:31 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: sagetunes]
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/09/17
Posts: 77
I think you're over-reacting. I could never really understand why bands need a sound guy on small club gigs/weddings in the first place. Do the sound check, agree you can hear everything, check FOH while band is playing; tell everyone if they touch their volume controls during the gig they will be beaten, and that's it. You can see from the board if anyone starts clipping, lower their ass.

Bringing the PA and setting it up and being responsible for it is more work than just dragging a speaker and throwing the crap in the van at the end of the night and saying you helped.

First off, who purchased/owns it? Who has to store the stuff, load/unload the van at home, most band mates NEVER get to the gig on time to unload the van and cart it in and set it up. Who sets up the microphones, IEM's, cables, purchases the cables, fixes the shit when it doesn't work? And who is Accountable? There is a premium for all that stress and work and whomever brings it should get a greater cut. Running the sound during the show is probably the least appreciated, controversial, and unpopular jobs for a musician.

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#2932415 - 06/12/18 09:54 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: kbrkr]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12336
Originally Posted By: kbrkr
tell everyone if they touch their volume controls during the gig they will be beaten, and that's it.

...until the drummer starts playing louder, then all bets are off.
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#2932416 - 06/12/18 10:03 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: timwat]
eric Offline
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Registered: 01/25/02
Posts: 6293
Loc: Virginia
Here's how my band handles PA/sound in what sounds like a similar, though more transparent fashion.

Our bass player is a pro sound guy on the side and has a truck full of all variations of very high-end PA equipment for many different sizes of venues (Midas mixers, Turbosound line arrays, moving lights, fog machine, etc.). He has a lot invested in his gear and makes top dollar running sound for several large bands when he has availability between our gigs and his day job.

For most of our gigs, we use the same soundman (not the bass player) and we take a cut off the top to compensate our bass player for sound/lights and to pay the soundman. In the scheme of things, we are just barely compensating him but he won't take any more. We all work together to load in and load out the gear and it is a very agreeable situation. When we play a venue that has sound, we only pay the soundman for his services. I think we are spending probably 25-30% of what we would have to pay to rent a full PA/soundman, which is very helpful to us and perfectly agreeable to our bass player as he is a really good guy. We also use his basement as our rehearsal space, which is fully equipped with PA/monitors, etc. so we just walk in and play. It's a very good situation, but guessing relatively unique.

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#2932417 - 06/12/18 10:05 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: kbrkr]
MuzikTeechur Offline
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Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 1592
Loc: Kittery, Maine
Originally Posted By: kbrkr
I think you're over-reacting. I could never really understand why bands need a sound guy on small club gigs/weddings in the first place. Do the sound check, agree you can hear everything, check FOH while band is playing; tell everyone if they touch their volume controls during the gig they will be beaten, and that's it. You can see from the board if anyone starts clipping, lower their ass.



Right - so why pay him, in this case, $90 extra to do it? He gets $225 and I (and the other band members) get $135. I don't mind paying a sound guy because that's another human, doing a dedicated (and hopefully good) job, not a guitar player who's being blasted by his own amp and the drummer and probably can't hear much else. In his defense, he did go out front during sound check, but that's a far cry from what a sound guy does.
And, as I've said, he's run sound on a dozen previous gigs with this band and to my knowledge hasn't gotten extra to do it.

I appreciate the opinions, folks.
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Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine.

HS music teacher: Concert Band, Marching Band, Jazz Band, Music Theory, AP Music Theory, Music History, Musical Theatre, Piano, Guitar, Drama.


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#2932425 - 06/12/18 10:40 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: MuzikTeechur]
Adan Offline
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Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 2550
Loc: San Francisco
I once played a gig with a guitar player/singer who was throwing his own birthday party at a bar. He said he'd pay us a set amount, $80 or whatever it was, and he did. But he also put out a tip jar during the gig that netted quit a bit of cash. He kept the cash to himself, presumably a self-birthday present. I never played with him again.

Taking an extra 10% for someone to bring the PA seems very reasonable to me. They bought the equipment, are maintaining it, schlepping it out and in at their house (even if they have help at the gig). "Running" it during the gig is a small part of their work. The BL should have given you notice before the gig, but this arrangement is pretty standard.
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#2932429 - 06/12/18 11:13 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: timwat]
hatricklov Offline
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Registered: 08/20/01
Posts: 218
Loc: CO
Originally Posted By: timwat
Again, the secret sauce in all this is advancing honest, friendly, non-finger-pointing communication. No one likes to be accused (especially if you've just done something questionable), and going in with the goal of reconciliation (rather than judgement, subpoena or deposition) will help things tons.

This. FWIW, Nat (from what I gather) apologized and also manned up by giving you a call to acknowledge the awkward situation. Everything else you describe about this setup/gig/band sounds favorable to you.

I would call and thank him for reaching out and admit that the pay hit caught you off guard. Then you can follow-up with a "I'd just appreciate if you can try and let me know about these kinds of changes up front". This acknowledges your feelings just enough and clears the air for future gigs.

Just curious... did the club or owner make any complaints about the sound?
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#2932430 - 06/12/18 11:14 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: Adan]
Reezekeys Offline
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Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2712
Loc: NYC area
Yea it's really the hassle of the shlep, the setting up, etc. That was my point. It's work that's over & above whatever an individual musician does to get their own gear to a gig. However, I sorta see the point when you're on a low-paying gig and one guy is making almost double what the others are. On a wedding when we're all making around $400, an extra $100 to the person that shleps the PA doesn't seem unreasonable at all. For a smaller and less $$ bar gig the equation might be different. I did a gig in the Virgin Islands many years ago, for $135 a week if you can believe it ("paid vacation", lol). One of the musicians booked it, and he took a cut off the top as a "booking fee" and was making essentially double what we did every week – and that was not for shlepping anything, it was for making a couple of phone calls!! This arrangement allowed him to fly his girlfriend down to be with him (flights were cheap back then!). I'm not sure anyone knew about this at the time.

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#2932433 - 06/12/18 11:34 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: Adan]
zeronyne Offline
I still exist
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Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 6690
Loc: Chicago/NW Indiana
In principle, your misgivings are well-warranted. In reality, if you like this band, and if the actual amount of the money is not going to eat at you gig after gig, I'd let it go. If he suddenly doesn't see the need for a sound guy, then you can have a conversation, but if this happens occasionally, think of it as him recouping the investment for buying the gear, and also think of it as a tax for not having to own that gear.
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#2932435 - 06/12/18 11:42 AM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: Reezekeys]
J. Dan Online   content
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Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 12014
Loc: St. Louis, MO
I would break this down into a couple different thoughts.

First, from what I'm used to, the BL calls the shots. If you're not the BL, you're offered the gig for a certain amount of money. You accept it for that amount of money. If the BL takes more or pays somebody else - agent or sound guy or whatever, that's part of how he runs the business of the band. The only concern is that he pay you what was agreed upon. So that's really part of concern is that you got shorted, and the advice others have offered as to how to approach it with him I think is fine advice. But in and of itself, if he's the BL, then I think it's his decision how to handle sound.

That said, if for some reason, sound was an issue, then of course you have every right to bring it up. Hey, I thought the sound was sub par the other night compared to when we have a dedicated guy, for whatever reasons....no subs, bad monitor mix, feedback, patrons said it didn't sound the same, whatever.

Now if this isn't one of those bands that has a true BL that handles all of the business end of things and is in fact more of a democracy with one guy just sort of being BL by default, then that would be a different story.

That said, in none of the bands where we brought our own sound was anybody paid more....but in each of those bands, different band members took responsibilities for different parts of the business end as well as gear - hauling PA, etc. There weren't strong BL's. In one show where I ended up bringing full PA and running sound for a larger outdoor show that we also recorded multitrack on my MBP, I didn't ask for more, but at the end of the night, the guys came to me and said they decided to give me more for all of the work I put in.


Edited by J. Dan (06/12/18 11:44 AM)
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#2932440 - 06/12/18 12:12 PM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: J. Dan]
The Real MC Offline
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Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 5007
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
hatricklov said it best.

The last band I was in, I supplied the PA. Everybody pitched in for load in/out and setting it up. Under those conditions I was fine not taking extra. We had a guy out front balancing the sound - not a "sound guy" but better than running from the stage.

Years ago our bass player had "some things going on". I told band leader that my LH can replace him. BL was reluctant until there was no choice. The first show with LH bass was an eye opener for them, the band was tighter. BL offered me extra pay for doing the work of two people - I declined.

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#2932448 - 06/12/18 01:01 PM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: The Real MC]
MotiDave Offline
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Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1762
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
I've never played in a band where one of the musicians brought the PA and expected double-pay. just never happened to me. just as i've never been in a band where someone tried to calculate "comparative contribution". If you were there, you get a cut - the same cut. to me - the "cost" of performing is 20 hours self-practice, 4 hours rehearsal, 5 hours total "gig time" from when i leave to when i return. the actual playing is the part i'd do for free if not for all the other time and equipment expense. so saying he's working two jobs in the gig doesn't wash with me.

If on the other hand, you feel its appropriate to compensate for investing in and then bringing a PA, that to me is a value-add not part of the prior job. but, as said, i've played in bands that brought PA - nobody ever thought to demand a double cut ever.

So I think its poor form for him to take a full-head cut as "sound guy" without even saying it up front, but there are obviously things for you to weigh pro/con that will dictate what you do about that. we can't control all behaviors of all people, all we can do is decide what we will do or not do about it.

first step - that gig is gone, done, history. i'd just let that one go. your real question is going forward, how does that feel to you? do you want to get in a negotiation about fair comp for PA duty? honest respectful conversations are always helpful - if only i could learn to have one of those i might have been able to advise you smile. I'd probably get mouthy and make the situation worse.
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#2932450 - 06/12/18 01:21 PM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: MotiDave]
MathOfInsects Offline
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Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 3315
Loc: California
While I agree the guitarist had some cojones in taking that whole pie, I'd also offer the flip-side argument: you were already playing for $X, so you didn't take a pay cut for him to rake in all the chips. You made your promised nut.

I DO play in groups where the guy booking the gig and hauling the PA takes an extra cut for it. Occasionally some guys have called out a BL for making too much off a private gig proportionate to the rest, but the fact is, even in those cases, he did all legwork, hustled up the gig, hauled in three trips' worth of sound gear, negotiated with the party planners, and has the name that got the job. While it would be nice to get a bigger cut of some of those gigs, we all still took the gig that was offered and made the money we accepted up front.

I agree a conversation is needed before the next job like this, but I'd also throw my vote into the "let it slide" this time chorus. You knew the $ and took the job. What happens to the rest isn't really relevant IMO.
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#2932458 - 06/12/18 02:17 PM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: The Real MC]
Iconoclast Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 491
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
hatricklov said it best.

The last band I was in, I supplied the PA. Everybody pitched in for load in/out and setting it up. Under those conditions I was fine not taking extra. We had a guy out front balancing the sound - not a "sound guy" but better than running from the stage.

Years ago our bass player had "some things going on". I told band leader that my LH can replace him. BL was reluctant until there was no choice. The first show with LH bass was an eye opener for them, the band was tighter. BL offered me extra pay for doing the work of two people - I declined.


Oh how I wish you would have set the precedent!

If I play with two hands it costs you twice as much. Foot pedals...triple.
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Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff

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#2932459 - 06/12/18 02:19 PM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: MathOfInsects]
MojoGuyPan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 421
Loc: Mainland Florida
I like the Nat's moxie but he did punk you out. If you had to help move his PA equipment and connect it, you should already be halfway through typing your very own "I Quit My Band Too" thread.

If it is a semi-democratic type of band, Nat is screwing you guys and I wouldn't just take it. The band sounds like crap through his sorry-ass PA and Nat trying to balance everything out from a horrible vantage point and he is stealing your money.

Nat sounds like a narcissist with a god complex. He thinks that he is smarter than everyone else and untouchable.

If he has a legit PA system, knows how to set it up properly and run it and lugs it all around himself he deserves extra, not as much as Dave was getting but maybe 70%. If you guys are moving his gear and you guys are a train wreck, he deserves nothing and needs to be confronted by the band.

This is the type of chicken-shit thing that kills bands. Some jerk tries to figure out how to make double what the other guys are getting paid. Either they claim to have invested in a PA, want a "commission" for scoring jobs, or charge for their "graphic arts" skills for flyers, banners, youtube vids, etc.

These are the kinds of people that should never be in bands, they are a cancer on the stage.

There was a singer I played with and it was the same. His girlfriend was "the Manager" and getting a cut, and when we found out our regular gig was paying a hell of a lot more than he told us but that he had been pocketing the extra for over almost two years the band imploded and the singer never worked again. To be fair he was the draw and he was the band leader but to lie about what we were getting paid was a dick move. Basically they singer claimed we were getting paid half of what the club paid for the band. He pocketed half and out of the half we split he got two shares for being the bandleader and "name" and his girlfriend got a share. Screw that kind of disrespect.

Tell Nat that that you guys aren't going to put up with that crap and threaten to bail on him. These people are horrible human beings.

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#2932462 - 06/12/18 03:16 PM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: hatricklov]
MuzikTeechur Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 1592
Loc: Kittery, Maine
Originally Posted By: hatricklov


Just curious... did the club or owner make any complaints about the sound?


Yes. We were "too loud." But when has a club owner/manager EVER said a band "isn't loud enough?"
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Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine.

HS music teacher: Concert Band, Marching Band, Jazz Band, Music Theory, AP Music Theory, Music History, Musical Theatre, Piano, Guitar, Drama.


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#2932463 - 06/12/18 03:28 PM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: Iconoclast]
MathOfInsects Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 3315
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Iconoclast


Oh how I wish you would have set the precedent!

If I play with two hands it costs you twice as much. Foot pedals...triple.


To be fair, LH bass is sometimes a double, or at least more than a single.
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#2932465 - 06/12/18 03:38 PM Re: Need Your Thoughts - Band Drama/Dynamics/Pay [Re: MuzikTeechur]
MuzikTeechur Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 1592
Loc: Kittery, Maine
More clarification: I never know when we're going to have a sound man on this gig; but to my way of thinking (and getting the keys heard out front) it's better when we do have a sound guy.
Nat is a really good musician, and a good guy. He's an honest guy. However, (and there's always a however, isn't there?) we recently played a gig, no sound guy, and did a sound check - an abbreviated Tom Petty's "American Girl."
I had my Mackie monitor, and could hear myself just fine, but reached over to turn my "main" down - leaving my send to FOH. There was nothing. Nada. Nothing in the singers' monitors, nothing that I could hear in FOH.
We finished the tune, and everyone else was like: "Yeah, that was fine." or "Yeah, sounds OK." I told Nat: "Hey, heads-up: the keys were completely muted." And I, plenty pissed-off, left the stage.
Again, to his credit, he came after me and explained that it's not easy doing sound from the stage, etc. etc. etc. and he was sorry.. BUT, this speaks volumes about his ability to do sound from the stage in medium to large clubs.

Several have really spoken to the issue: can this guy do a credible job running sound in front of his really loud Fender amp and does he deserve a full "sound guy" cut?
I really don't care about the money - as others have noted I take the gig for a certain amount and it's my choice to take it or not, and it's none of my business how the money is divvied up. True - although in this case I was under the impression that there was no sound guy so I found out after the fact that Nat was taking an extra cut.

Thanks everyone for your very thoughtful and sometimes tough-love answers. This is the kind of discourse I was hoping for, and is important to our community. Someone else will be dealing with this or a similar situation and it's important to know how others have or would deal with it.
_________________________
Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine.

HS music teacher: Concert Band, Marching Band, Jazz Band, Music Theory, AP Music Theory, Music History, Musical Theatre, Piano, Guitar, Drama.


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