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#2931045 - 06/04/18 10:25 AM "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum
Winston Psmith Offline
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Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 3523
Loc: Inside the Beltway
I had a very nice show this past weekend, with a handful of other local performers, but one issue came up that's stuck with me . . .

One of the performers was flying in from San Francisco, and didn't want to trust his Guitar to luggage handlers. (I can almost hear everyone out there in the Forum, saying, "Hell, no, neither would I!") I got an email from one of the organizers, asking if I had a Guitar he could borrow. My response was that I would rather lend someone a kidney than any of my Guitars, but if nothing else presented itself, he could use my Epi Les Paul.

As it turns out, they found a Guitar for him, a very nice Gibson Les Paul, and once I'd met the guy and heard him play, I would very likely have let him use any Guitar I didn't need in my hands at the moment. Still, in general, I don't lend my Guitars to anybody, even if I feel like something of an asshole for saying "No" to another player, and that's the issue.

Do you, or would you, lend your Guitar to some other player, especially as in this case, where it's someone you don't know, and haven't even met?

My Guitars aren't particularly valuable nor rare, nothing I couldn't replace with the right amount of cash, and a bit of looking around. It bothers me to say "No", because I really believe we should be helping to support one another as Musicians, and fellow humans. Then, I think about Prince smashing Kirk Douglas' vintage Crestwood, on Jimmy Fallon's show!?!?! Maybe it was the pain-killers that night, but this is a guy (Prince) with his own collection of custom Instruments, tossing aside another player's prized Guitar like firewood. WTF doesn't even begin to cover it.

The show went on, everybody had a Guitar to play, all's well that ends well, but I'm sure the question will come up again, at some point. What say you?
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#2931048 - 06/04/18 10:28 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Winston Psmith]
p90jr Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 3160
I have and do... it depends on who's borrowing... and that's the thing, I have mere acquaintances I've let borrow gear because of their reputations and character, while I have fairly good friends and bandmates that I refuse to...

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#2931058 - 06/04/18 11:18 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: p90jr]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5638
Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
The thing about the “Bambi” incident is that Kirk seems amazingly cool about it. Far cooler than I would be, after all.

Part of it may be that he has found out Prince did this more than once, so it wasn’t personal:
Quote:
Yes, in the past, he's pretty famous for tossing guitars in the air and someone being there to catch it. Since this incident, I've heard from several people that he's taken other people's guitars and tossed them and not arranged for anyone to catch it. He'd take care of it in some way later. But he's built a career of sort of being eccentric and it's one of those ways he expresses his eccentricities.


Part of that may be that it got fixed:
Quote:
I found this guitar years ago, probably in 2004, at 30th Street Guitars in New York from a guy named Matt Brewster, who also put it back together. And I felt good with him doing that since I bought it from him in the first place. And ever since I bought it from him, he periodically jokes and asks to buy it back from me because he knows how special it is, too. I remember going to the store when I plugged it in, I was blown away by its singularity and tone. It had a beautiful snarly sound to it and if you look at the pickups here, these are the pickups normally found in Firebirds, they say Gibson on them. So much of this guitar is not original.


http://www.epiphone.com/news-features/features/2013/kirk-douglas-the-epiphone-interview.aspx

(Still a dick move, Prince Rogers Nelson, R.I.P.)

As to the question at hand, like p90jr, I have loaned out instruments before. I have no problem doing that with those I know & trust. (Or whom I know can replace/reimburse.)

By the same token, I don’t think less of those who say no.
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#2931065 - 06/04/18 11:27 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5219
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
(Still a dick move, Prince Rogers Nelson, R.I.P.)


In the extreme. No amount of money can replace a family heirloom or a gift from a departed spouse. It's not about the money, it's the self-regarding, total lack of respect for another human being. F**k Prince.
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#2931081 - 06/04/18 12:16 PM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Scott Fraser]
DocPate Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/11/16
Posts: 870
Loc: Virginia
Borrow in my presence is one thing, just loaning one out - No!

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#2931098 - 06/04/18 12:49 PM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: DocPate]
p90jr Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 3160
I've been loaned a great many things... so I return the karmic favor... but there's some people who you just don't... luckily, they seem to have already created case studies in how they shouldn't be trusted if you just listen.

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#2931106 - 06/04/18 01:26 PM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: p90jr]
Danzilla Offline
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Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 5514
Loc: Baltimore, MD
I've borrowed and loaned amps & effects. I loaned one of my basses to my niece for a couple of years while she was learning. I don't think I've ever borrowed a guitar, except for one studio session where the engineer's band-mate let me use his Rick 12 string for a song.

Last time I loaned a guitar was at an outdoor festival, and one of the bands after me was having sound issues, mainly with the singer's guitar. I saw his pain and offered him the use of my PRS SE Semihollow (but not the Gibson ES 335). It took two falls from the stand - one from the wind, one from someone tripping over the guitar cable. Minor scratches, but another reason why I don't do this often, nor with the Gibson. (And yes, he was very apologetic.)
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#2931118 - 06/04/18 02:13 PM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Danzilla]
Sharkman Offline
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Registered: 06/12/10
Posts: 655
Would I loan one of my guitars to someone I don't personally know and trust? Not just no, but HELL NO! Would I loan one of my non-Carvin guitars to someone that I personally know and trust? Probably. No one is allowed to touch my Carvin unless I am within arms reach of it at all times. No exceptions. Ever.
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#2931131 - 06/04/18 03:39 PM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Sharkman]
Larryz Online   content
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11414
Loc: Northern California
I do not loan out any of my guitars nor do I borrow any...I do let a buddy borrow one for a tune or two just to try it out and they do the same just to get my opinion of their new axe(s)... cool
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#2931141 - 06/04/18 04:38 PM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Larryz]
picker Offline
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 13510
Loc: Near 12th Street and Vine...
I have loaned out guitars, and never thought much of it, till I found out one of the guys I was trying to help had lost somebody's guitar he had borrowed. He said it was stolen out of his car one night, but the strong possibility exists that he pawned it, or sold it to somebody on the sly. The guy, it turns out, is not at all trustworthy.

Either way, I thought it was inconsiderate of him to leave it in his car overnight. I got mine back from him immediately after that, and I haven't loaned out a guitar since.

But then, nobody has asked to borrow one since, so I haven't turned anybody down, either. I think I'll be a bit more picky about who and how in the future.
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#2931148 - 06/04/18 05:05 PM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Winston Psmith]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4736
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith

Do you, or would you, lend your Guitar to some other player, especially as in this case, where it's someone you don't know, and haven't even met? the question will come up again, at some point. What say you?


I do not like others to play my instruments. I keep them spotlessly clean on the rear of the neck, and if someone else plays one it seems sticky on the back of the neck. I then cannot play it until I clean it. If you wanna play bring your own instrument, that way you are qualified to play. I would never go out and play someone elses instrument. I need the slickest grease free neck, because I slide all over the neck and I do not want any drag.

None of my guitars have any monetary value, I sold all of the expensive ones over the past 4 or 5 years, one at a time.

It is simply a matter of cleanliness.
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#2931149 - 06/04/18 05:09 PM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: desertbluesman]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4736
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
I did lend out my brand new Strat one time to a musician who was opening for Jeff Beck in New York City. When he returned it he told me that Beck played it all night in his set because his guitars did not show up.

He never got his hands on any of my instruments again. I do not care who played it it is up tp me to lend out my instrument not someone close to me who borrowed it and then lent it out.
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dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
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#2931167 - 06/04/18 07:00 PM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: desertbluesman]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5638
Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
That’s not cool.

(On the other hand, Jeff Beck played your guitar.)

In a similar situation, I’d have tried call you to let you know what the situation was, and to get your permission. And had someone called ME about that kind of thing, I’d have go-ahead...but I’d want photos or some such.

Hmmmm...I might just include a”Jeff Beck” clause for future loan-outs. Y’now...just in case I can’t be reached if the situation arises.


Edited by Dannyalcatraz (06/04/18 07:04 PM)
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#2931177 - 06/04/18 07:37 PM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
mikesr1963 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 59
Loc: Virginia's East Coast
"What say you?" No.

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#2931199 - 06/05/18 01:00 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: mikesr1963]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
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Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 12451
Loc: St. Louis, MO
I have to confess that I myself have been on the borrowing end even though I would normally say you DON'T ask to borrow somebody's instrument, but it really depends on the circumstance.

Just recently, the lead guitar (I'm primarily keys) in the band I often fill in with is doing some sort of Def Leppard one-off show and asked me if he could borrow my Explorer. He's an excellent guitar player, friend, I trust him, and it makes perfect sense to want to play an explorer in a Def Leppard tribute. No problem.

Our corporation has a major trade show/expo every year with our users. One of the rep organizations who had a band started putting on a music show, where employees or customers who signed up ahead of time could basically perform. The rep agency band was sort of the "house band" and people rotated in and out on a pre-planned basis with pre-planned songs based on communication ahead of time. Again, my primary instrument is keys, but I also play guitar, and the powers that be assigned me a few songs to play on guitar. My understanding was there was full backline, instruments, etc all provided but you could bring your own instrument. Not practical to bring keyboards and swap them with the house rig, so I knew I was using that rig. My understanding was that I'd be playing the guitar rig as well. Some folks brought guitars, there were about 5 sitting on stands. I sound checked on one, not really knowing whose it was. Turned out I wouldn't have access to it and had to ask the "house band" guitar player if I could use his. He reluctantly said ok -I assured him that I am 100% responsible for it in every way. I felt bad, but the whole situation with so many people and the whole changeover was pretty sketchy. It was pretty huge -we had it at House of Blues in Denver at the time and had the place at capacity all night.

At least I highlighted his beauty for the camera:



Edited by J. Dan (06/05/18 01:06 AM)
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2931203 - 06/05/18 04:07 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Winston Psmith]
skipclone 1 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 8239
Loc: Japan
I REALLY try not to get in that situation. If someone breaks my guitar neck, I say let the punishment fit the crime! I can make it relatively painless...
That said, I have had two luxuriously long-term loans, one a `69 pearl white Custom Shop Strat that I couldn`t stop playing, and is recorded on my music page. It was in my possession for about three years, and was returned without a scratch. If someone else could guarantee that same level of care, would I let them take away one of my guitars?
Nope. Sorry. That`s kind of hypocritical isn`t it-TFingB. Better that than lose a friend over an accident that didn`t need to happen. Or lose more of my already fragile trust in humanity.
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#2931204 - 06/05/18 04:11 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: J. Dan]
Eric Iverson Offline
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Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 5279
Loc: Jackson Heights, NY
I have been known to borrow, in which case I take care of the instrument and return it with a pack of new strings.... you know, common courtesy.

Lend? Sometimes, but not to strangers or friends with serious substance abuse problems. Or people who show a lack of responsibility in general......

Even letting other people play my instrument is selective.. for example, I like to sit in the park and play on a nice day, but I don't bring my stage guitar, because people come up, sometimes drunk, and want to borrow it, and I don't want to take a chance.

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#2931213 - 06/05/18 04:45 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Eric Iverson]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11025
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Yeah, sure....who is borrowing is a huge factor. I know guys I'd never let borrow my guitar(s), and those who'd refuse to LOAN one to me. wink

No real conundrum here.

But there ARE the twits who you don't know that want to at least TRY OUT your axe...For example, when I was in a band, and we did play the rare but occasional basement party, I've had TWO times the same thing happen....

Some clown would approach me and ask, "Say, can you let my buddy play your guitar for a minute or so? He plays REAL GOOD, so how 'bout it? He can play "JOHNNY B. GOODE!" So, he'd point to some spot in the room and some glassy-eyed greaser lookin' type of fool would be standing there grinning. so I'd HAVE to ask, "Why doesn't HE come here and ask?"

The SECOND time that happened, I had to look hard at the guy asking to see if it was the same guy as before. BOTH guys. Odd thing was, they weren't the same two, but one's ability to play "JOHNNY B. Goode" was both times supposed to be he big "selling point" grin

Needless to say, I turned them both down.
Whitefang
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#2931245 - 06/05/18 07:41 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: whitefang]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 3523
Loc: Inside the Beltway
Thanks, everyone. The "No" vote wins, in this case.

As I said, having met the player in question, and seen him play, sure, I'd lend him a Guitar - though probably not one of my SG's.

Stangers, drunks, imbeciles of all shapes and sizes, it's not even a question. Letting one out of my sight - not going to happen, I don't care who's going to play it.
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#2931321 - 06/05/18 03:57 PM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Winston Psmith]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6977
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
None of my instruments is valuable except sentimentally & even then in a limited way. Their value is strictly to the extent of their replacement cost.
2 Reasons: the deliberate decision to view them as tools & the resulting idea that they're by nature replaceable.

There have been times, esp when younger, when the loan of an instrument have helped me considerably.
That said, there are alternate views & I respect those.
Certainly if y'loan an instrument to 1 party & they, w/out consultation, loan it to a 3rd, that's outta line, even if it's a famous person (witness the PRN stories above---hard to believe J Beck didn't have his gtrs, though, unless this was back in YBirds days...& in more modern times, in NYC I'd think the show promoter'd be on the phone to SRI or something).

One possible idea, although sure to raise an eyebrow in some corners, is developing a preset agreement form (ala DannyA) for the conditions of loaning an instrument, thereby making the handling of any resulting problems more cut & dried.
---------------------

I've a sidetrack question.
Not finding a film of the PRN / Capt Kirk incident mentioned above; can someone describe exactly what happened ?
Considering that Fallon's is a comedy show, oft w/a touch of pretense, is it possible that was a staged incident ? idk
PRN was sometimes a bit arrogant, etc, but he always seemed quite respectful of those he considered real musos.
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#2931357 - 06/05/18 09:11 PM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: d]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5638
Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Here’s the whole 2 song performance.
http://v.yinyuetai.com/video/h5/639296

Here’s a gif of the finale,


Edited by Dannyalcatraz (06/05/18 09:11 PM)
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#2931374 - 06/06/18 04:34 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Winston Psmith]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11025
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Letting one out of my sight - not going to happen, I don't care who's going to play it.


eek
Y'mean, not even if they CAN play "Johnny B. Goode" ? idk freak facepalm wink
Whitefang
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#2931417 - 06/06/18 08:34 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5219
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
Here’s the whole 2 song performance.
http://v.yinyuetai.com/video/h5/639296
Here’s a gif of the finale,


I have absolutely zero respect for anybody who treats someone else's property like this. A complete dick.
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#2931425 - 06/06/18 09:01 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Scott Fraser]
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 3160
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
Here’s the whole 2 song performance.
http://v.yinyuetai.com/video/h5/639296
Here’s a gif of the finale,


I have absolutely zero respect for anybody who treats someone else's property like this. A complete dick.


Yeah... I lost a lot of respect for him with this and his initial attitude (refusing to pay for the repairs) afterward...

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#2931428 - 06/06/18 09:13 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: p90jr]
p90jr Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 3160
I remembered something... my band was playing a show that had two opening bands (I think that was the situation) and the first band was a young band doing its first show... in the middle of the second song the rhythm guitarist broke a string on his guitar, and didn't have a spare... and from the look on his face when the song ended and the band all looked at him, didn't have an extra set of strings, either... so I hopped onstage and grabbed my backup guitar from my rack - which was my 1965 Gibson SG Special - and a stringwinder and box of bulk strings and handed him the guitar and took his... he said "are you SERIOUS!?!?!?!" "Yeah, just don't smash it..." I put on a string for him and tuned it and put it on the corner of the stage and let him play the SG for the rest of the night. I think his guitar was Fender Jagstang or something... he was very grateful.

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#2931431 - 06/06/18 09:16 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: p90jr]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 3523
Loc: Inside the Beltway
FFS!!!!

I have refused to even touch a friend's Guitar, as they were saying, "Here, check this out!", because my hands were dirty! Seriously!

There's an old, seldom-used word, that perfectly describes the mind-set behind such a dick move: the word is "Effrontery". Some words deserve a comeback . . .
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#2931435 - 06/06/18 09:32 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Winston Psmith]
p90jr Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 3160
I was trying to find the original post on the internet to repost, but since I can't remember which band posted it... I'll have to do it from memory:

Their band loaded in and did a soundcheck at a club, when the promoter walked up and says the words NO band EVER wants to hear:

"Hey, my friends The Dwarves are here and they were wondering if they could play short set on your gear?"

For those not in the know, The Dwarves are a notoriously nihilistic and destructive and violent punk band from Seattle... like, trying to live up to what people feared "punk rock" was like when they heard about it...

So they said "FU@K NO!!!!" and promoter got pissy...

Then, the guys in The Dwarves came over, out of costume and talked with them... and they were very nice and friendly and intelligent and charming and funny and seemed like very sensible human beings. And after a while they asked again... "hey, can we play a short set on your equipment... and the band said "well... you guys are very nice... if you promise not to break it... we're a broke band on tour..." "Of course not, man... we understand..."

So, The Dwarves change into their costumes, go onstage when the crowd gets there... plays 6 of their one-minute songs and destroy all of the equipment.

When one of the guys in the other band said "Man... you promised..." the response he got was "We're The Dwarves... you can't trust us!!!"

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#2931436 - 06/06/18 09:32 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: p90jr]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5219
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: p90jr
I remembered something... my band was playing a show that had two opening bands (I think that was the situation) and the first band was a young band doing its first show... in the middle of the second song the rhythm guitarist broke a string on his guitar, and didn't have a spare... and from the look on his face when the song ended and the band all looked at him, didn't have an extra set of strings, either... so I hopped onstage and grabbed my backup guitar from my rack - which was my 1965 Gibson SG Special - and a stringwinder and box of bulk strings and handed him the guitar and took his... he said "are you SERIOUS!?!?!?!" "Yeah, just don't smash it..." I put on a string for him and tuned it and put it on the corner of the stage and let him play the SG for the rest of the night. I think his guitar was Fender Jagstang or something... he was very grateful.


That guy is probably still telling everyone how his very first gig was saved by the intervention of an absolutely awesome stranger. Good on you, you're a mensch.
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#2931455 - 06/06/18 11:50 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Scott Fraser]
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 3160
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: p90jr
I remembered something... my band was playing a show that had two opening bands (I think that was the situation) and the first band was a young band doing its first show... in the middle of the second song the rhythm guitarist broke a string on his guitar, and didn't have a spare... and from the look on his face when the song ended and the band all looked at him, didn't have an extra set of strings, either... so I hopped onstage and grabbed my backup guitar from my rack - which was my 1965 Gibson SG Special - and a stringwinder and box of bulk strings and handed him the guitar and took his... he said "are you SERIOUS!?!?!?!" "Yeah, just don't smash it..." I put on a string for him and tuned it and put it on the corner of the stage and let him play the SG for the rest of the night. I think his guitar was Fender Jagstang or something... he was very grateful.


That guy is probably still telling everyone how his very first gig was saved by the intervention of an absolutely awesome stranger. Good on you, you're a mensch.


I've had my butt saved by strangers in bands I was opening for... or just by strangers in the crowd, so many times... especially when I was younger, I feel a karmic duty to help. Even now - and people make fun of me being redundantly over-prepared, with a big bag of every kind of cable and power cord and extra one-spots and strings and tubes and fuses - the universe will throw a curveball and something goes wrong, and thankfully someone is always there if I need something.

Especially when I was a young gigging bassist with nothing more than a Peavey Basic 40 that in a pinch I could just use as a direct box that was pumped through the monitors and sounded acceptable at best, other bassists on shows would say "no, man... let's plug you into my SVT/GK/Trace Elliot/whatever rig... there you go!"

Also, that guy I helped... the cute girl he was dating at the time and I ended up dating later, and she said that moment made her have a huge crush on me... which was not my motivation and I hadn't even seen her, yet.

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#2931457 - 06/06/18 11:56 AM Re: "Can I borrow your Guitar?" conundrum [Re: Scott Fraser]
surfergirl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/12/17
Posts: 109
Loc: Waialua, Hi
I only have 2 guitars, so I wouldn't loan one. I need, using the word need loosely, 1 for a backup. If I get another guitar I would loan my Squier Strat, but not my Deluxe Player. The DP was a blemished model, so only coat $500, but I love it.

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