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#2931302 - 06/05/18 01:25 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: Fusker]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Well after 3 pages we have clearly ended this debate once and for all. Bwah ha ha. roll

Maybe we just leave it at... Nords are expensive - the Stage is the most compelling model and the priciest. There are some decent reasons why some users are willing to pony up for one. And there are some decent reasons why others choose their competitors at lower price points (especially true in the US). Even at the $4500 there isn't a holy grail swiss army knife board that meets everyone's needs and there will likely never be one.
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#2931303 - 06/05/18 01:26 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: Fusker]
jeffinpghpa Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 495
Loc: Charlotte, NC
I'm glad to see so much love for Sledge here. More than I've seen ever on this forum. I think the Sledge 2.0 is my next purchase.
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#2931307 - 06/05/18 01:53 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: AnotherScott]
Delaware Dave Online   content
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
spending $3599 and immediately feeling the desire to get better organs and EPs off an $1149 Gemini to total $4748 is crazy talk (ymmv).

It's not a matter of immediately feeling the desire to get better organs and EPs. The organs and EPs are nice and more than usable... I liked them in my NE5D, which I sold to get the NS3. They are not the very best, but they are plenty good enough, and certainly the best you'll find in a 22 lb 7x key board that also includes aftertouch, a knobby synth, and some of the best acoustic piano sounds available!

I'm not suggesting that Nord owners need to buy Gemini modules. But if one does want the very best at the lowest travel weight, budget aside, adding a Gemini module to an NS3 is arguably a way to do it, if you do indeed prefer the EPs and organs of the Mojo.

The other thing about sound satisfaction is that people can be perfectly happy with their sounds, until they hear something better. Lots of people probably thought they'd never need another piano sound once the Korg M1 came out.

For multi-sound (piano/EP/organ/synth/rompler) players, any single board is a compromise. Any pair of boards is a compromise. Heck, I don't think I could come up with a THREE board rig that wasn't a compromise. The question is one of how far you are willing to go to minimize compromises. Admitting that the Nord isn't perfect at everything it does is not a knock on the Nord. Nothing is perfect. For many people, the Nord is simply the least imperfect.

So let's assume that your favorite pianos are Nord, your favorite organs/EPs are Mojo (which again, does not mean the ones in the Nord aren't "good enough," they're just not your favorites), and you want a knobby synth with aftertouch and custom sample loading. Turning the premise around, instead of starting with the Nord and thinking about ideally adding Mojo calibre organ and EP via the Gemini, let's start with the Mojo 61. What do you add to get what you're now missing by not having gotten the Nord? A Sledge gives you back the knobby synth with aftertouch and sample loading, at reasonable price. Now where do you get your Nord-caliber acoustic pianos driven from a board with more than 61 keys? Well, you still need a Nord of some sort (since our goal is to get this set of common favorite sounds, i.e. Nord-calibre piano and Mojo-calibre organ and EP). But it doesn't have to be a Stage, it can be a cheaper Nord. Still, the cheapest 7x key Nord plus a Sledge plus a Mojo61 comes to $4,900. That's more expensive than adding the Gemini module to the NS3, and a bunch more travel weight, setup time, and stage footprint. And, btw, we're still missing a quality rompler. I add that as a second tier with the NS3. In this alternate scenario, that becomes a fourth board!

The more practical way to build this system around a Mojo61 and Sledge would probably be to add a laptop, and some inexpensive 73+ board you can use as a controller. The laptop could give you the best in piano and rompler sounds, while this combo still leaves you with dedicated hardware for the stuff that's hardest to do through software (knobby synth and drawbar ergonomics, and VB3 sound that beats their VST equivalent). You're still at three boards, though, and it's still not cheap, and will require a bunch of effort to make it all work smoothly.

Bottom line, I do find the NS3 good enough for everything I need it for, but if I want to get closer to perfection, it's much easier to add Mojo organ/EP to an NS3 than to add the rest of what an NS3 does to a Mojo61.

(I'm not actually sure how seamlessly one could get that to work, though. Driving the Gemini through the EXT function is a logical and easy way to add an external sound source, but drawbars don't transmit through the EXT function. Driving the module from the Nord's Global channel will give you all the front panel organ control, but complicates integrating internal and external sounds. I have some ideas on how it could be done, but that's a topic for another thread at another time, and it's nothing I'm imminently pursuing anyway)
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#2931311 - 06/05/18 02:09 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: MojoGuyPan]
jeffinpghpa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 495
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
[quote=kbrkr]
Like other have said, With a 61 and Seven you're still $1250 less than the Stage and you have an optimal keybed for organs and a sweet hammer action keybed for piano and EPs. You need a synth? Bring a Sledge and you still have cash in your pocket for night of fun.


That rig could have a very cool vibe to it and could be a lot of fun to play (Seven's action aside - we agree to disagree), but the box I don't really have checked in the Seven + 61 + Sledge combo is the acoustic piano. I think a strong contender in the AP category in the bottom board is pretty critical and perhaps some richer pads.

I think it could be very high on the fun factor, but carrying 3 keyboards is a lot of schlep when one of them is a Seven and has a heavier case/form factor.
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#2931314 - 06/05/18 02:42 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: Stokely]
GregC Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5710
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: Stokely
Originally Posted By: GregC
Originally Posted By: Stokely
Look out guitar players, keyboard players can be gear-judgemental douches too! We're coming for your crown! Geez....



I think you are joking mostly. The gear analysis threads are fun.
( correct me if I am misunderstanding).

Imagine, Nord can did this up in a minute and have instant product assessment at a customer level. For free.

I think almost every post is fact based . opinions, preferences for sure but backed up with fact.

Folks here have excellent product knowledge. They are dedicated and serious about their craft.

I also enjoy joking around. Just wanted to give my input as a non-Nord person.


Yeah I was joking and didn't mean to sound so over-the-top, there were a few posts sprinkled in that seemed a bit weird in a brand-snob way (like guitarists!) but overall there's a lot of great info in here.

AnotherScott has me looking into the Gemini, for instance! I sure wish the Mojo 61 had those extra engines...




Thats cool.

And I apologize for being the instigator of a 7 page post. wink

I also expect a huge factory discount when I buy a Stage
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#2931322 - 06/05/18 03:58 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: GregC]
gg22 Online   content
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Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 117
Brand loyalty plays a big role here (same happens with cars, phones and everything else). People are willing to pay more for the brand they trust and are familiar with. Korg Grandstage or Roland RD-2000 give you most of the Stage functionality at half the cost, and when you shell $$$ for your first Nord, it's easy to upgrade considering it's high resale value.
I've seen many people using Stage 88 just as a stage piano, as well people buying $1000 iPhones just for texting.
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#2931324 - 06/05/18 04:09 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: gg22]
GregC Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5710
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: gg22
Brand loyalty plays a big role here (same happens with cars, phones and everything else). People are willing to pay more for the brand they trust and are familiar with. Korg Grandstage or Roland RD-2000 give you most of the Stage functionality at half the cost, and when you shell $$$ for your first Nord, it's easy to upgrade considering it's high resale value.
I've seen many people using Stage 88 just as a stage piano, as well people buying $1000 iPhones just for texting.


I worked for Sony for 10 years- they rode that brand loyalty hard. This was back in the 80's/90's.

Just the same, there is always competition. Often compelling competition. I consider the RD-2000 to be excellent , low cost alternative.

And as you say, plus this post topic, both show brand loyalty. I think its well deserved.
Most working keyboard musicians are not wealthy is my guess. For them to let go of $4000 ( vs $2000 for the Rd-2000) is a big deal. Even with expected Nord resale value.

I disagree with the Porsche analogy. Lots of service involved. Very expensive service.
A Porsche on the outside, yes. Then again, most analogies are flawed.
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#2931325 - 06/05/18 04:10 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: gg22]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12807
Originally Posted By: gg22
Korg Grandstage or Roland RD-2000 give you most of the Stage functionality at half the cost

I don't know about he RD2000 which I've never looked at in depth, but Grandstage, nice as it is, doesn't give you nearly the Stage functionality. No drawbar-adjustable organ. No knobby synth. Those are huge differences. Then there's stuff like no aftertouch, 64 savable sounds instead of 400+. I think you can only split/layer two sounds, right? And there's basically no control of external sound sources over MIDI, no custom sample loading...
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#2931328 - 06/05/18 04:37 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: GregC]
bennyray Offline
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Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 933
Originally Posted By: GregC
Originally Posted By: gg22
Brand loyalty plays a big role here (same happens with cars, phones and everything else). People are willing to pay more for the brand they trust and are familiar with. Korg Grandstage or Roland RD-2000 give you most of the Stage functionality at half the cost, and when you shell $$$ for your first Nord, it's easy to upgrade considering it's high resale value.
I've seen many people using Stage 88 just as a stage piano, as well people buying $1000 iPhones just for texting.


I worked for Sony for 10 years- they rode that brand loyalty hard. This was back in the 80's/90's.

Just the same, there is always competition. Often compelling competition. I consider the RD-2000 to be excellent , low cost alternative.

And as you say, plus this post topic, both show brand loyalty. I think its well deserved.
Most working keyboard musicians are not wealthy is my guess. For them to let go of $4000 ( vs $2000 for the Rd-2000) is a big deal. Even with expected Nord resale value.

I disagree with the Porsche analogy. Lots of service involved. Very expensive service.
A Porsche on the outside, yes. Then again, most analogies are flawed.


Easy Greg you are making too much sense!
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#2931332 - 06/05/18 05:14 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: AnotherScott]
gg22 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 117
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: gg22
Korg Grandstage or Roland RD-2000 give you most of the Stage functionality at half the cost

I don't know about he RD2000 which I've never looked at in depth, but Grandstage, nice as it is, doesn't give you nearly the Stage functionality. No drawbar-adjustable organ. No knobby synth. Those are huge differences. Then there's stuff like no aftertouch, 64 savable sounds instead of 400+. I think you can only split/layer two sounds, right? And there's basically no control of external sound sources over MIDI, no custom sample loading...


You are correct about the Grandstage - no drawbars, aftertouch, knobs and very limited sound adjustments. But AP's are comparable, ROMpler sounds are better, and EP's are just in another league. I was actually planning to buy the Stage 3 88, but ended up with the Grandstage. Paying $3000 CAD more for drawbars, knobs and aftertouch (especially on a 88 keyboard) seemed a bit steep to me. Now I'm considering adding Electro 6 though ... but who knows, once I'm in the store - may end up with something else again, lol.
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#2931340 - 06/05/18 06:57 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: Delaware Dave]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
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TL;DR
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#2931344 - 06/05/18 07:13 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: gg22]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6416
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: gg22
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: gg22
Korg Grandstage or Roland RD-2000 give you most of the Stage functionality at half the cost

I don't know about he RD2000 which I've never looked at in depth, but Grandstage, nice as it is, doesn't give you nearly the Stage functionality. No drawbar-adjustable organ. No knobby synth. Those are huge differences. Then there's stuff like no aftertouch, 64 savable sounds instead of 400+. I think you can only split/layer two sounds, right? And there's basically no control of external sound sources over MIDI, no custom sample loading...


You are correct about the Grandstage - no drawbars, aftertouch, knobs and very limited sound adjustments. But AP's are comparable, ROMpler sounds are better, and EP's are just in another league. I was actually planning to buy the Stage 3 88, but ended up with the Grandstage. Paying $3000 CAD more for drawbars, knobs and aftertouch (especially on a 88 keyboard) seemed a bit steep to me. Now I'm considering adding Electro 6 though ... but who knows, once I'm in the store - may end up with something else again, lol.


Having the Grand Stage - you could do Electro 6 up top, or the Mojo 61, SK1, or XK-1c. The new VOX Continental would be too much Korg for me in that pairing. Depends what sounds, action and controls you are after.
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#2931515 - 06/06/18 11:12 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: ElmerJFudd]
MaskOfInsects Online   content
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When I first bought my Stage it took me a long time to work up the need for a second board. To be sure this was pre-organ-playing days for me. Occasional pads at best, set to whatever the default pushbuttons were. But even after I started gateway organ-playing, I could get by on most gigs by being ninja at splits and layers.

Fast forward through a couple of rig refreshes, all with two boards, and now my NS3 Compact has become the second-board killer. I tried, really tried, to add a second board. I tried, really tried, to go non-Nord. My rig and my gigs would seem to need a fully weighted vintage-keys component in addition to the board I theoretically use mostly for organ and synth, and there other options out there for both.

But the NS3 is too good. The stiff waterfall action makes piano playing actually sorta workable, vintage keys good, clav responsive, and synth fine. On the flip side, it's sprung a bit stiffer than an organ, but also completely workable on that end as well. Obviously not the best emulation out there, but for a one-board solution? Righteous.

I honestly tried to set up a two-board, non-Nord rig this time, but this thing keeps working too well. Just sold my second board (again). I'm going to snag a weighted-key controller to leave in my studio and take on occasional gigs, and ride with wave with my new red-headed dream girl.
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#2931530 - 06/07/18 05:00 AM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: MaskOfInsects]
stoken6 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1967
MoI are you saying you're happy with a one-board Nord rig? I couldn't imagine playing what I do on just one board (not enough real estate) but Nord+controller is da bomb.

Cheers, Mike.
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#2931533 - 06/07/18 05:18 AM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: MaskOfInsects]
cphollis Online   content
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Registered: 10/05/13
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Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
When I first bought my Stage it took me a long time to work up the need for a second board. To be sure this was pre-organ-playing days for me. Occasional pads at best, set to whatever the default pushbuttons were. But even after I started gateway organ-playing, I could get by on most gigs by being ninja at splits and layers.

Fast forward through a couple of rig refreshes, all with two boards, and now my NS3 Compact has become the second-board killer. I tried, really tried, to add a second board. I tried, really tried, to go non-Nord. My rig and my gigs would seem to need a fully weighted vintage-keys component in addition to the board I theoretically use mostly for organ and synth, and there other options out there for both.

But the NS3 is too good. The stiff waterfall action makes piano playing actually sorta workable, vintage keys good, clav responsive, and synth fine. On the flip side, it's sprung a bit stiffer than an organ, but also completely workable on that end as well. Obviously not the best emulation out there, but for a one-board solution? Righteous.

I honestly tried to set up a two-board, non-Nord rig this time, but this thing keeps working too well. Just sold my second board (again). I'm going to snag a weighted-key controller to leave in my studio and take on occasional gigs, and ride with wave with my new red-headed dream girl.


This is weirdly similar to my own experience. The NS3C may not be the best at any one thing, but it's so damn good at most things. It's cured my GAS for a good long while now.

I play mine with a weighted board below (NP2 HA88) just doing midi, as I want/need a more AP-like action. The NS3C gives me control surface for everything.

And it's a blast. Throw in my IEMs, and I'm now in full sell-off-a-bunch-of-stuff mode. A bunch of older Nord boards. Several pairs of PA units. Mixers.

None of it no longer needed or wanted. Very liberating.
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#2931544 - 06/07/18 07:05 AM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: Adan]
MojoGuyPan Offline
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Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 427
Loc: Mainland Florida
Originally Posted By: Adan

It should also be said that you are possibly the kookiest commentator on this board . . . but I think everyone already knows that.

And yet sometimes you absolutely nail it. Good days and bad days?

Let's get that $2300 monotrimbral Crumar Seven into your living room so you can start really enjoying that Fatar action.

edit: I guess Scott beat me to the irony punch.


I've got the Seven in my living room, pics of Chez GuyPan to follow.

I get your sarcastic remark about enjoying the Fater TP100 in the Seven. What I don't get is how this is a knock against the Seven in a Stage thread. Yesterday afternoon by means of cosmic serendipity I went into a local music store that was loaded with Nord and Casio boards. I played the Stage 3 and Stage 2 EX both marked $4500. When playing the 3 I was reminded of your snide "enjoy the Fatar" comment. The Stage 3 action felt the exact same as the action in the Seven and in the Numa Stage, the Fatar TP100. They are the exact same. So I say to you enjoy the Fatar in your dual-timbral $4500 Stage 3.

I knew that the Nords had Fatar action but I thought it was the TP40 like the Kurzweil 88s or the Numa Concert. But no, the 3 had the TP100. The Stage 2 EX felt like it had a plastic version of the TP40 and was much smoother than the Stage 3.

On the plus side they sounded really nice and I had fun playing them for a half hour or so. But $4500 is very steep.

I must say both Stage actions killed the Casio PX-5 action which felt absolutely bargain bin in comparison and that the Numa Compact 2 they had sounded really good and felt solid.

You're gonna love my decor.


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#2931546 - 06/07/18 07:06 AM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: cphollis]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
Fast forward through a couple of rig refreshes, all with two boards, and now my NS3 Compact has become the second-board killer. I tried, really tried, to add a second board. I tried, really tried, to go non-Nord.
...
My rig and my gigs would seem to need a fully weighted vintage-keys component in addition to the board I theoretically use mostly for organ and synth, and there other options out there for both.
...
I'm going to snag a weighted-key controller to leave in my studio and take on occasional gigs, and ride with wave with my new red-headed dream girl.
In your situation, my second board of choice would be an SV1, it is the archetypal fully weighted vintage-keys component. It's EPs are more satisfying than Nord's, it provides the same kind of hands-on manipulation you enjoy on the Nord, it has a nice action to trigger the SW Nord's pianos from, it gives you a smattering of other sounds that are arguably better than any equivalents in the NS3, and you can also get it in red. ;-) With the right stand, you can even get the Nord to sit nicely right on top (despite its curved top), which looks cool and minimizes distance between the actions. Not terribly pricey, either. The only downside is dealing with is 38.5 lbs.

As for my own second board NS3-73 complements, lately it's been a Roland DS61 or a small Yamaha. I just like having a super-light extra board for grabbing sounds on the fly without having to think about splits, plus some superior rompler-style sounds (strings, brass, woodwinds), though I could address the latter in an even lighter iPad. Another advantage over the NS3 alone, though, is that it's simpler and more convenient/flexible to have the second board when doing LH bass. (My Kronos 61 or Artis7 could do the trick too, but for my needs on these gigs, have not been worth the additional travel weight over the DS61/Yamaha.) But it's still tempting to bring a weighted action!

Originally Posted By: cphollis
I play mine with a weighted board below (NP2 HA88) just doing midi, as I want/need a more AP-like action. The NS3C gives me control surface for everything.
That makes sense since you already owned the NP2. Though it would be more cost-effective to use an SL88 Grand which has a similar action. Again, an iPad could serve as an extra sound source if you'd miss the safety of redundancy.

Other reasonably lightweight 88s I'd consider a nice sonic and functional complement to the NS3 Compact would be the SP6 and MX88/MOXF8. But if you don't need their sounds, you might as well focus on the action you prefer.

As for redundancy, an old topic here, yeah, I'd still want a second board in case of disaster, even if it was my Microstation that I could leave in the car. Though in hundreds of gigs over the past decade or so, I can only think of three times I couldn't use a board... and twice it was because I was missing the right power adapter. ;-)
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#2931550 - 06/07/18 07:24 AM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: MojoGuyPan]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12807
Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
I get your sarcastic remark about enjoying the Fater TP100 in the Seven. What I don't get is how this is a knock against the Seven in a Stage thread.

You may have gotten the sarcasm, but I think you missed the point, which isn't sarcasm but irony. You knocked the Nord Stage 3 for "using Fatar just like everybody else" while you also extoll the virtues of the Seven, which, at $2300, uses the exact same Fatar action as the $4200 NS3-76... and EP sound quality aside, the Seven isn't half the keyboard the NS3 is in sound or functionality. Add a clonewheel, a knobby synth, and a high quality acoustic piano to your $2300 Seven, and the NS3 can look like a bargain. I'm not saying the Seven isn't a great keyboard, but it is at least as extravagantly priced for what you get as the Nord is. Not that it isn't worth it. Both boards are worth it if they put the right smile on your face. But I can't see how anyone who thinks a Seven is reasonably priced for what you get can possibly say that a Nord Stage isn't.

Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
The Stage 3 action felt the exact same as the action in the Seven and in the Numa Stage, the Fatar TP100. They are the exact same.
...
I knew that the Nords had Fatar action but I thought it was the TP40 like the Kurzweil 88s or the Numa Concert. But no, the 3 had the TP100. The Stage 2 EX felt like it had a plastic version of the TP40 and was much smoother than the Stage 3.

The 76 key versions of the NS2EX and NS3 use the TP100. The 88 key versions use the TP40.
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#2931582 - 06/07/18 09:29 AM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: AnotherScott]
MaskOfInsects Online   content
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Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 3553
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
In your situation, my second board of choice would be an SV1


That was my choice. Bought it. Didn't use it. Sold it.
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#2931585 - 06/07/18 09:46 AM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: stoken6]
MaskOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 3553
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: stoken6
MoI are you saying you're happy with a one-board Nord rig? I couldn't imagine playing what I do on just one board (not enough real estate) but Nord+controller is da bomb.


Here's the thing. In theory, I should not be happy with one board. I do lots of gigs where the obvious set-up is a double stack.

But...somehow it's been working. Nearly every patch I make is "backed up" with organ volume controlled by the wheel, so I can always switch on the fly. Wheel up = organ volume up and all others down (unless I'm working with a split where one should stay active). There are a couple of occasional patches where I might want some other morph on the wheel, but it's so rare that it hasn't mattered. And for those, I just drop organ in a live slot and it's easy enough to get there in a hurry.

I used to do a one-board thing and got to the point years ago where I really needed a second one, so I double-stacked ever since. I keep waiting to get to that point again. I bought the SV-1 because I was sure I wasn't going to get by with one board. But I just keep getting by with it...
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#2931600 - 06/07/18 10:46 AM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: MaskOfInsects]
stoken6 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1967
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
I was sure I wasn't going to get by with one board. But I just keep getting by with it...


Nice situation to be in thu

Cheers, Mike.
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#2931620 - 06/07/18 11:30 AM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: stillearning]
David Emm Offline
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Registered: 09/14/12
Posts: 1217
Loc: Solder Huffer's Gulch
Originally Posted By: stillearning
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
... I'll add expressivity of playing. That's kind of related to all the real-time controls, that you can grab so many things to tweak the sound as you play, but also the aftertouch, the pitch stick (which is my favorite pitch bender), the multiple pedals...

I feel like I'm working on an instrument, not a computer.


My sentiments exactly.

My Stage is the first keyboard Ive had in years that I just connect with. If something happened to it, Id get another.


THIS, above all else. My best music has come from instruments that really called me to them. I was meh over the Rhodes, but really took to the odd delicacy of a Wurly. There is a wide chasm between making do and having a real fire in you. Yamaha's OS paradigm made me feel like a cat with scotch tape on its feet. (Don't do this. Its cruel, they are vindictive and you will pay dearly.) With Korg, I simply started playing. Same with M-Tron Pro. I tried faking it, but I wised up and went for the nearest thing to the real deal. Its added synth-type controls are outstanding for making a sound the best 'tron for the job. You drop several thousand on a major 'board because you're going to marry it and cleave unto it above all others. Nord sells well because they nailed a solid demographic. You know you will FIND the money, because Rod Serling says so and because you are on KC reading this in the first place.
rawk cheers
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#2931649 - 06/07/18 12:46 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: MaskOfInsects]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12807
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
In your situation, my second board of choice would be an SV1

That was my choice. Bought it. Didn't use it. Sold it.

Ha!

Okay, next suggestion would probably be an SP6, for a weighted action that has a lot of flexibility, reasonably light weight, pretty straight-forward operation, and some sounds that would complement Nord's well.

Or just stick with one board. ;-)

Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
Nearly every patch I make is "backed up" with organ volume controlled by the wheel, so I can always switch on the fly. Wheel up = organ volume up and all others down (unless I'm working with a split where one should stay active). There are a couple of occasional patches where I might want some other morph on the wheel, but it's so rare that it hasn't mattered. And for those, I just drop organ in a live slot and it's easy enough to get there in a hurry.

Nice trick. I've used some other methods to do similar things, like including a turned-off organ sound in patches, so I can still always get my main organ sound by pressing a button. Yes, I"d have to press another button to, for example, simultaneously turn the piano off, but here's another trick... just hit the keys softly. The organ will be full, and you'll hardly hear the piano. I have a patch where I use those finger dynamics and the organ swell pedal to alternately emphasize either piano or organ as I play... mostly one, mostly the other, or plenty of each, all without requiring that I use my hands for anything but playing (no buttons, knobs, or wheels).
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#2931650 - 06/07/18 12:49 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: AnotherScott]
MaskOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 3553
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
here's another trick... just hit the keys softly.


I've made it this long without ever having done that even once, so I think at this point it'll be a clean sweep to the end of my days.
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#2931661 - 06/07/18 01:40 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: MaskOfInsects]
Adan Offline
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Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 2644
Loc: San Francisco
I get why some people don't think Nords are right for them. I don't get the concern over whether they are "overpriced." You should be playing your keyboard almost daily for at least 3-4 years if not longer. If the keyboard that's right for you costs $500 or even $1,000 more than one that's not right, why is it a rational decision to get the cheaper one?

Sure, there are times when you just can't afford the extra $1K. I've been there myself. But that's the exception. Most of us can find a way . . . sell your vintage baseball cards or something.

Some people change keyboards too often. I might be one of those people. If you keep a keyboard less than a year then you've probably screwed yourself out of a good bit of money, but you can't blame the Swedes for that.
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#2931663 - 06/07/18 01:45 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: AnotherScott]
Adan Offline
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Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 2644
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
I get your sarcastic remark about enjoying the Fater TP100 in the Seven. What I don't get is how this is a knock against the Seven in a Stage thread.

You may have gotten the sarcasm, but I think you missed the point, which isn't sarcasm but irony. You knocked the Nord Stage 3 for "using Fatar just like everybody else" while you also extoll the virtues of the Seven, which, at $2300, uses the exact same Fatar action


This. But if you're going to get all sensitive on us MGP then I'll stop poking fun at you.

By the way I am once again scheming to get a Seven in my living room, so we're on the same page.
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#2931664 - 06/07/18 01:49 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: Adan]
DOhm Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/06/14
Posts: 243
Loc: Colorado
I keep looking for alternatives...but I loved the NS2. I now have the NS3 and love it too. The NE4 was a good second board, but did not exceed any expectations, so I eventually sold it. Did I already mention I love the NS3?

Yes, they are pricy, but they keep me from wanting/needing any other workstations and the resell value always makes me happy.


Edited by Dave Ohm (06/07/18 01:50 PM)
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#2931669 - 06/07/18 02:00 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: GregC]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
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Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5703
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
Originally Posted By: GregC

I am interested in objective reasons why the money conscious, scrutinizing musician pays the premium for a Nord Stage.

And why its so much more distinctive/preferable and valuable vs its worthy competitors.


"Tell me where is fancy bred? In the heart, or in the head?" - Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice
"The heart knows reason that reason knows nothing about" - Blaise Pascal, Pensees

The free market advocate would argue that having choice clarifies value; that is, providing a wealth of options to buyers, each of whom makes a non-coerced purchase decision, self-determines where the aggregate of value is. The fact that the Nord Stage continues to sell well would naturally suggest sufficient value is perceived by non-coerced, rational buyers, where of course:

Value = is it worth it to me?

That being said, one might posit that Value may not always embrace your premise that 1) all musicians are money conscious to the degree you are, and 2) a musician needs to be wealthy, making a certain income, or other factors to justify the price tag of a Nord Stage. Value is a very personal decision that is only partially determined by revenue and income. Sometimes we want what we want simply because...we want it.

Not all love (or purchase decisions) are made because of rational personal economic decisions. Over the years, I've made plenty of keyboard purchases because I had to have it. And I later landed on reasons why that purchase was justified. In the panoply of human behavior, I don't think that's uncommon, nor do I think it's "unwise" or "not worth it" - it just acknowledges that some purchase decisions transcend the cold logic of pecuniary valuation and exchange.

A fancy way of saying what Pascal observed a long time ago. Some decisions are heart decisions. Some folks drive a Nord Stage because...they want to. And that doesn't need justification.

Or, to put it more eloquently, I'll remind us of the Prefab Sprout lyric,

"They say the spirit moves in mysterious ways
Sometimes the way it moves looks plain berserk
But two things you should be slow to criticize,
A man's choice of woman and his choice of work"

...and I might add, a man's choice of keyboard.

Tim
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#2931673 - 06/07/18 02:08 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: GregC]
davedoerfler Offline
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MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 7773
Loc: the swamp
Originally Posted By: GregC

I also expect a huge factory discount when I buy a Stage


well this is "THE" contributing factor to expense.
The factory sells to a distributer, who then sells to a retailer, who then sells to the end user. All three levels need to be profitable to stay in business.
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#2931675 - 06/07/18 02:10 PM Re: Nord Stage Keyboards; The $3400 to $4500 decision [Re: timwat]
MaskOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 3553
Loc: California
Right. Cost vs. value. A $1 keyboard you never use costs $1 too much. A $5000 board you use constantly and productively is a steal.

I'm a cheapskate, and fundamentally disrespectful. If everyone likes something, I am usually included to hate it. Accordingly I truly bristled when all the hipsters started using the red board I'd early-adopted years before because it meant (to me) I was going to have to get rid of it.

Instead I taped over the nameplate, as I've done with every board since, because when it comes down it, that was the board with the greatest ongoing value to me.

A brand is a detriment to me. (I wear no clothes or products with visible brand names). It's just the board that has offered me the greatest value over time--which makes it underpriced.
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