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#2929799 - 05/29/18 12:23 AM OT: 2018 Formula One Season
zephonic Offline
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The American sports threads on this forum are fairly active, and the FIFA World Cup thread is, too, whenever the tournament is happening.
So I wonder if there are enough closet F1 geeks here to have a discussion?
I know Joe Muscara and Marino are fans, so that makes three of us. Anybody else?
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#2929811 - 05/29/18 04:30 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Phreakay Offline
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Having attended all but one GP in Melbourne since 1995 I'll join in.

Danny had a superb drive minus 2 gears for 50 laps to win in Monaco. How come Vettel couldn't take advantage of the Red Bull's 30kph disadvantage and grab first?

This season heart picks Ricciardo, but Red Bull doesn't have the top speed, so head says MB. A fast track next at Montreal so we will see if the red cars can match MB.

Kontroversy Corner - the Red Cars have returned to their long term form of only winning when the other cars fail.
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#2929839 - 05/29/18 06:39 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Phreakay]
FJR Offline
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I'm a motorsports fan, so F1 is a must! I miss Leigh, Dobbs, Steve, and Will, but it was initially exciting to see Ferrari (or someone other than Lewis smile ) actually winning a race!

I know he's not everyones favorite, but I think its very exciting watching Max! Crazy unpredictable sometimes, but what reflexes and talent (when it works out, that is... smile )

Its high on my list to make it to Austin sometime to take in the spectacle of actually attending a race!

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#2929843 - 05/29/18 06:46 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: FJR]
Synthaholic Offline
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I’m a Button fan.

Edit to add: I just googled to see where he sits on the leaderboard and found out he retired in 2017. Shows how much I keep up these days. I also like Lewis Hamilton.


Edited by Synthaholic (05/29/18 06:52 AM)
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#2929846 - 05/29/18 07:03 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Synthaholic]
MojoGuyPan Offline
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F1 kinda blows. Don't get me wrong, I've been into since the late 80's but the "race" this weekend in Monaco really sucked. They should just give up on the race and hand out trophies based on qualifying.

There have been a few good races this year but even those were because of the magic of the safety car or VSC.

I really wish it were better, more competitive. The only time you get something good is when you've got two great drivers on the same team like Prost v Senna. Right now the best race within a race is Ricciardo v Verstappen. Bottas and Raikonnen are nowhere close to Hamilton and Vettel. If Ferrari and Mercedes picked up some real talent for the #2 spot maybe it'd be interesting again. Hopefully Ricciardo ends up at one of the big two and makes things fun again.

They really need to cut back on the aerodynamic BS. Kill the downforce big time and go to narrower tires. Also this BS with limiting the engines and gearboxes is killing the sport too. I want to see these guys run flat out like Senna. Not run a handful of hot laps before each pit and nurse the car the rest of the race. With how they have it set up you only get to see the drivers "perform" for a little bit. It needs to be so that they are on the rivet, pushing hard the whole race.

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#2929869 - 05/29/18 08:54 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: MojoGuyPan]
Tomkeen Offline
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There's a lot of talent on the grid right now. I think Ocon and Leclerc (he really surprised me) are excellent drivers. I agree with Mojoguypan though, it has to get more competetive. Mercedes dominating the sport is getting boring, though Ferrari is really catching up. It sucks that Renault cannot seem to deliver a good engine, because Red Bull has the best chassis.

As a Dutchie, I'm Verstappen biased. Though it has to be said that he has really messed up some races this year. I hope he finds his form back soon. I can never forget him overtaking so many cars in the rain in Brazil a few years back in the Toro Rosso.

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#2929876 - 05/29/18 09:40 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: MojoGuyPan]
dje31 Offline
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Registered: 09/09/13
Posts: 199
Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
... < Snip > They should just give up on the race and hand out trophies based on qualifying < Snip > ...


Sad, but all too true, all too often. Unless there's a wreck, mechanical, and / or weather issue, pretty much the pole sitter or #2 ends up winning. Yawn...anticlimactic.

Which is the total opposite of how it should be...potentially the most exciting, challenging, competitive of most motorsports, and yet, not.


Edited by dje31 (05/29/18 09:40 AM)

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#2929883 - 05/29/18 10:11 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: dje31]
zephonic Offline
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To me there isn't much wrong with F1. If you want a level playing field with plenty of overtaking, watch a spec series. F1 is about technological excellence as much as it is about driver skill.

My main beef is with the tires and DRS. Both are designed to create artificial excitement, something F1 does not need IMO.

I'm an Alonso fan, and I'm sure you can imagine that hasn't been great for me these last ten years. But I like Hamilton and Ricciardo as well, so I still have someone to root for when Alonso isn't setting the midfield on fire.

Although I'm a Dutchie, Verstappen doesn't do much for me. He's quick for sure, but I think the hype gets the better of him. This is his fourth season in F1 and he's been making rookie mistakes every race.


Originally Posted By: Markay

Danny had a superb drive minus 2 gears for 50 laps to win in Monaco. How come Vettel couldn't take advantage of the Red Bull's 30kph disadvantage and grab first?


His gearbox didn't actually fail. The MGU-K did, which meant he lost about 160 BHP. To ameliorate this he was advised not to use gear 7 (gear 8 is never used in Monaco anyway), and shift the brake balance to the front so as not to overheat and destroy the rear brakes (the ones that recover kinetic energy). Vettel had severe graining on the left front tire, which meant he couldn't really force the issue.

Yeah, I nerd out on this stuff. If you really want to understand what goes on during a GP weekend, I highly recommend Mark Hughes' excellent race reports for Motorsport Magazine:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-monaco-grand-prix-report


Edited by zephonic (05/29/18 10:43 AM)
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#2929924 - 05/29/18 12:06 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Yeah, I'm a big fan, and while I rue losing Matchett on the U.S. broadcast, I don't miss Leigh Diffey one bit. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but I can't stand commentators who yell stuff like, "oh! Oh! Look at this! Here he goes!" instead of info about who is doing what and where. Once I noticed that about Diffey, it was downhill from there for me. I felt like he talked to hear himself talk.

Quote:
My main beef is with the tires
The best season as far as that was in 2012 when the tires would disintegrate if you drove on them too long. I don't think F1 has ever had that many winners in a season! roll

The problem in reality is that if the tire tech was allowed to be whatever, they'd last the entire race and there would be no degradation. Most of the tech that could be used in F1 is too good at this point.

I've often thought they should have to use intermediates or wets instead of slicks. There wasn't anything dumber than those grooved tires. At least if they had to run on rain tires of some sort, when it actually rained something useful might come of them.

I'm glad Ricciardo got that win. I'm a big fan of his. Meanwhile, like Menno says, Max is still making rookie mistakes. I was actually pleased that he kept his head and brought it home in Monaco. Maybe it's finally sinking in.

As far as the lack of racing on track, yeah, but I kind of see it like a chess match. It has become more about strategy than on track action. There's something to be said for that. Some poor decisions have cost some guys races.
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#2930058 - 05/30/18 05:47 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Phreakay Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic

Yeah, I nerd out on this stuff. If you really want to understand what goes on during a GP weekend, I highly recommend Mark Hughes' excellent race reports for Motorsport Magazine:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-monaco-grand-prix-report

Thanks for posting that link. I will visit it for updates.

Max has talent and while not yet as clinical as Danny when passing he is the most aggressive driver out there ATM. It will interesting to see how the 2019 driver contracts work out.
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#2930106 - 05/30/18 08:55 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Phreakay]
JohnH Offline
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Big fan, and I always enjoyed Sky when I missed US Broadcasts. Sky coverage is way better and I don't miss the old team, who were so irrelevant and way past their sell by date. Hobbs hadn't sat in an F1 car since 1974 and Matched hadn't turned a wrench on one in 20 years. Sky has team members that drove as recently as November at the Abu Dhabi test- Di Resta. Not a Diffie fan, but I was used to his voice by the end. I'm glad I slept through most of Monaco- so I could stay awake for the real race- The Indy 500. It's funny I texted a friend that then found out Alonso said almost the same thing- the real race Sunday was Indy.

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#2930133 - 05/30/18 10:33 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Phreakay]
KorgyPorky Offline
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Registered: 03/03/17
Posts: 117
Originally Posted By: Markay
Originally Posted By: zephonic

Yeah, I nerd out on this stuff. If you really want to understand what goes on during a GP weekend, I highly recommend Mark Hughes' excellent race reports for Motorsport Magazine:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-monaco-grand-prix-report

Thanks for posting that link. I will visit it for updates.

Max has talent and while not yet as clinical as Danny when passing he is the most aggressive driver out there ATM. It will interesting to see how the 2019 driver contracts work out.



Since Max is practically Familly, i am a huge Max fan, and so is the rest of our Nation, i think espescially in Monaco, it became apparent that the F1 has need for more Maxes... even tough Riciardo had a broken car several secconds/round slower then the rest, noboddy dared to overtale him... Max overtook 14 cars in this race...

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#2930140 - 05/30/18 10:56 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: KorgyPorky]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
even tough Riciardo had a broken car several secconds/round slower then the rest, noboddy dared to overtale him... Max overtook 14 cars in this race...


Neither of those statements is accurate.

Feel free to peruse this:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-monaco-grand-prix-report
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#2930166 - 05/30/18 01:13 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
MojoGuyPan Offline
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Loc: Mainland Florida
Korgy,

Come on. I know you're a Max fan but he only passed a handful of cars. He was in the fastest car on the grid and started dead last. He _should_ have been passing those cars.

Ricciardo, down 160 HP / 20-30KM/H at the chicane, keeping Vettel at distance and eventually pulling away from Vettel and Hamilton was way more impressive.

I like Max's crazy-aggressive style though. Wish he would've been more crazy at Monaco. I hope these incidents don't douse his flame.

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#2930193 - 05/30/18 04:16 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: JohnH]
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Originally Posted By: JohnH
Matched hadn't turned a wrench on one in 20 years.
The big thing that Matchett continued to bring to the broadcasts was that he still knew a lot of guys in the paddock. He would often say, "I spoke to some of the engineers last night and they told me..." He also kept up with the tech as much as he could. OTOH, I remember a few years ago when they had a recent driver sub for Hobbs one weekend, and he brought lots of info about what the drivers need to do with all those controls throughout the laps. Hobbs has no idea.
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#2930204 - 05/30/18 05:44 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
Mizu Offline
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Long time fan here. I like how the '18 season is shaping up, there has been more action in the first few races than for most of the 16 or 17 season. Don't mind the Sky broadcast either, I think they have a very knowledgeable group of commentators.

For color: I think Alonso is driving the wheels off the McLaren - wish we had a wet race so the playing field was more level and he might have a shot at a podium. I wonder how long Mateschitz is going to put up with Max throwing away points. Similar with Grosjean - 0 points for Haas from his side of the Garage so far. I think there's a lot of musical chairs for the '19 season.
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#2932110 - 06/10/18 08:24 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Mizu]
zephonic Offline
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Looking forward to the race today, Canada is always an interesting event.

First Ricciardo, then Bottas, and finally Vettel all set new lap records during qualifying yesterday.

It's amazing that these PU's are faster than the V10's of yore, and consume roughly half the fuel. The engineering is impressive.

Hamilton is typically unassailable around here, but he looked out of it yesterday. Not sure what's going on with him.

The McLarens are tragically slow, and can't hide behind the Honda PU's anymore. I feel for Alonso, and wonder if he'll stick around for next season. They have no realistic chance at winning until 2021, I reckon.
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#2932167 - 06/10/18 06:17 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Phreakay Offline
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Only seen the results and not the race yet. Looking forward to reading Mark Hughes full report, thanks again Zephonic.

Vettel now leading the F1 Championship points. Bottas came second so Mercedes were up for it, Hamilton's state of mind seems to be his issue. Chequered flag waved one lap early, what went on there?
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#2932169 - 06/10/18 06:47 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Phreakay]
Dr88s Offline
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I'm not a fan of racing at all and have never attended a race but the event was local and the surrounding festivities downtown today were a real treat on a lovely day.
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#2932175 - 06/10/18 07:33 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Dr88s]
Phreakay Offline
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The Melbourne GP is a four day event in a Park 3klm's from the city. The 4 days are packed with support events. There is also a sound stage that books local acts for one set each and runs 7 hours a day for the 4 days.

That plus the live music in the various hospitality venues probably makes the F1 the largest non music event source of gigs each year.

Plus the Australian Army Rock Covers Band The Rising Sons, plays endlessly on their own stage for the 4 days. I always check them out as they have the latest and greatest gear including a desk with a tablet mixer. That gets updated each year and their sound guy is a great source of info on what works and the issues they had with last years mixer. They also happen to be a really tight band with excellent singers.
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#2932195 - 06/11/18 05:14 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Phreakay]
Losendoskeys Offline
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Love F1 and Lewis Hamilton.
Lewis was pissed over this weekend - mainly with himself.
Hopefully he will get over it and grab the lead back from Vettel.
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#2932197 - 06/11/18 05:15 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Phreakay]
Losendoskeys Offline
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Originally Posted By: Markay
Only seen the results and not the race yet. Looking forward to reading Mark Hughes full report, thanks again Zephonic.

Vettel now leading the F1 Championship points. Bottas came second so Mercedes were up for it, Hamilton's state of mind seems to be his issue. Chequered flag waved one lap early, what went on there?


They gave the flag to a "model" and probably gave her the wrong instructions...........or she was blonde. smile
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#2932261 - 06/11/18 10:00 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: MojoGuyPan]
EscapeRocks Offline
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I love all manner of motorsports.

F1, NHRA, NASCAR, SCCA, MotoGP, and so forth.
I used to compete in SCCA Pro SoloII and NHRA

I was fortunate to get really good seats for the F1 down in Austin a couple years ago, when my band played one of the official parties. Let's say those European drivers and the Euro women can party. Those stories later smile
Circuit of Americas is a really good track (and the excellent music venue Austin 360 is part of it.)

Regarding the Canadian race yesterday, it was not the model's fault that she waved the checkered a lap early.

Here's what director of F1 racing said

Quote:
After the race Whiting explained what had led to the error. He said: "The chequered flag was shown a lap early because of a miscommunication with the guy that they call the starter here, who starts and finishes the races.

"He thought it was the last lap, he asked race control to confirm it, they confirmed it, but they thought he was making a statement when he was asking a question.

"He told the flag waver to show it a lap early"
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#2932278 - 06/11/18 11:39 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: EscapeRocks]
zephonic Offline
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Well, the race wasn't as exciting as I expected it to be, but Vettel's win and Hamilton's 5th place means that the fight for championship is wide open once again.

Until yesterday I still believed Mercedes had the strongest over-all package, but there's really no getting around the fact that Ferrari is right up there with them, and easier on the tires to boot.

As an aside, I'm trying to get used to those halos, but they really are fugly. Wish they'd ditch those, but that doesn't seem likely.

Originally Posted By: Markay
Looking forward to reading Mark Hughes full report, thanks again Zephonic.


Yeah, his in-depth knowledge and understanding of the sport is second to none, as is his ability to explain the minutiae in plain language. The MM readers often joke that his reports are more exciting than the boring races themselves!

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-canadian-grand-prix-report
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#2932302 - 06/11/18 01:37 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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The championship is turning out to be interesting again like last year. What would be great is if Ricciardo, Bottas, and/or Max get themselves deep into the fight, too.

Speaking of Max, it was nice to see that he once again is using his head while driving. I'm hoping he's finally got it figured out.

I might say the best part of the broadcast was when Brundle asked Bono (Lewis' engineer, not the singer) on the grid if Lewis ever apologizes for what he says on the radio during the race, to which Bono said, "every time! It's part of the job. It doesn't bother me." grin
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#2932306 - 06/11/18 01:46 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
Grave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Quick note:

I just had to delete a post that was more appropriate for a sports bar than this forum.

Keep it civil, please.

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#2932312 - 06/11/18 02:36 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Grave Bryce]
JohnH Offline
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Sad to see Alonso in that boat anchor. This is sad sad sad. He's the master of making the wrong moves. Honda goes to Toro now the engine is doing good. He leaves Ferrari and they start winning again.

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#2932321 - 06/11/18 04:18 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Phreakay]
Gary75 Offline
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Ferrari are on par with Merc this year no question. Big fan of Danny Ric
Saddest part is seeing Williams with a driver like Stroll bankrolled by his father. He's chronic as a driver as just seen in his home race. I feel the Stroll family have an unhealthy grip on Williams. Kubica kicked both their arses in testing yet because he's not either bankrolled by his family or the state, he's reserve.
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#2932344 - 06/11/18 11:57 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
zephonic Offline
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In the comments section of Mark Hughes’ GP report, he actually replies to someone’s question: “If I was a betting man, I'd bet that Honda will win races next season.”

At the very least they seem to have the reliability sorted, so if they can manage to increase the power to fuel consumption ratio, who knows?
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#2932345 - 06/12/18 12:16 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Gary75 Offline
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Alonso will never win another F1 race that's for sure, he's spending his 5th season kicking around McLaren not because he wants to but because no one else wants him despite him being seen as a great driver. No going backbtonFerrari and Merc don't want the issues McLaren had in 2007. I'm convinced he'll call it a day this season and race in America.
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#2932422 - 06/12/18 10:34 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
JohnH Offline
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The writing is on the wall. Alonso to Indy Car? It's been 25 years since Mansell came here- that was huge and this will be too. That would be awesome. McLaren are in the stages of looking into this, so for sure he's going to be the driver if they do it.

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#2932481 - 06/12/18 06:17 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: JohnH]
marino Offline
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I'm an oldtime fan, and I'm following all the races I can follow despite them being utterly boring, more and more as the years pass. Who cares if the cars can run faster, when they can't overtake?! Hopefully, the simplification of aerodynamics proposed for the next years by Liberty Media will bring a bit more show for the fans.

It's almost too obvious to say that I'm a Ferrari fan, since I'm Italian - fact is, my family comes from the same area where Maranello is... the motorsport heart of Italy. It was Ferrari and racing since I was a child. Perhaps not coincidentally, this is also close to the area where the Italian electronic instruments industries (Siel, Elka, Crumar, FBT, etc.) used to be. Sadly, they are almost entirely gone by now; just Fatar/Studiologic and a very few others are still working.

I was really happy to hear that Seb was going to join Ferrari, as I had always enjoyed his driving. Perhaps he's a bit "too respectful" in this world of bloodthirsty beasts, but his sheer talent is impressive. In this era, btw, very few drivers still have that killer instinct that you could find in Villeneuve, Senna, Schumacher etc. Alonso has it perhaps, and sometimes Hamilton. Max has some of it, but I just can't stand his childish arrogance, and his propension to attack no matter what, often ruining other drivers' races. A great talent, to be sure, but...

About Alonso, I can only agree with this:

Originally Posted By: JohnH
Sad to see Alonso in that boat anchor. This is sad sad sad. He's the master of making the wrong moves. Honda goes to Toro now the engine is doing good. He leaves Ferrari and they start winning again.

It also has to be said that Alonso is not a team man. When things go wrong, he tends to detach himself from his team, and blame them for the problems. I mean, even if he was right every time, that's not the right way to build a team spirit, and mutual confidence, which is so necessary when you are the main point of reference of such a large organization.

Seb is the opposite of this. He's always with the team, despite the fact that they still haven't given him a car good enough to beat Mercedes. It took five years for Schumi in the early 2000s... and now Seb is in his fourth year with them....... wink

Speaking of Ferrari: I was really doubtful when Marchionne became president. He knew about road cars, not racing. And when, a couple of years ago, he fired their chief motorist in a moment of crisis, *without replacing him*, I thought, "this man is nuts"... he was talking about a collaborative, "horizontal" structure. And most fans were convinced that Ferrari would never return to victory under Marchionne's guidance.

Well, at the start of the 2017 season, everyone could see that he was right. Mattia Binotto and his team of engineers have designed a superior engine, and Vettel is on the fight for the title again. I keep my finger crossed - although I know that Mercedes is still one step ahead. The victory in Canada was made easier by the fact that Ferrari had the new engines, while Merceds, with the old one, had to limit power to reduce the risk of breakup.

Enough for today... smile

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#2932504 - 06/12/18 11:51 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Theo Verelst Offline
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Amoung you die-hard and even (previously) active racing guys I got to say I didn't follow that many races. I enjoyed some of the e events because that's a new technical challenge. Not as incredibly competitive as those 1000(?) horsepower F1 horses, but still the electric speed is incredible.

I had to read up on what happened after the heavy powered engines of long ago, the additions of electric drive, turbo and regeneration abilities, the 100 liters fuel (the environment!) and the rules against active suspension. As a long time (though not at the moment) Audi 100 driver I find it interesting how those hydraulics can keep the cars safe in all the manoeuvres they make, including the powerful changes of course you can see well in camera shots from the front during strong direction changes, looks vicious.

T

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#2932507 - 06/13/18 12:27 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Theo Verelst]
Gary75 Offline
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It's all gearing up to turn fully electric unfortunately, certainly down to V4 at some point. I'm pleased I was just old enough to follow from late 80's with the V10/12 cars up to mid 2000's. Never liked the sound of V8's

Formula E has now got top speeds of 180mph without car change during a race. Anybody getting into F1 now have missed the boat if they want the sound.
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#2932508 - 06/13/18 02:03 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
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As someone who attends 1 GP each year I have mixed feelings about the sound. Up until 2016 earplugs were mandatory, 2016 the sound was atrocious, as aurally exciting as a MB C200 Kompressor going flat out. (That is what my 97 year old mother in law drives).

Better in 2017 and better again in 2018 but you don't need earplugs so a happy compromise. The old Minardi 2 seater V10 still takes corporates for a ride from 7am on Thursday through to Saturday mornings and although I stay 2 klms from the track it serves as my alarm clock.

Fortunately the Aussie Super Car V8's are the main support race and the thunderous noise and snap, crackle, pop on deceleration keeps us all happy and aurally excited for 4 days. The Porsches and GTP's in other support races don't come close.
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#2932512 - 06/13/18 03:21 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Phreakay]
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The only time I've been on an actual track's environment was for a anti-skid course, so I'm wondering: are those e-cars producing closer to silence or closer to an incredible whining noise?

T

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#2932527 - 06/13/18 05:45 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Theo Verelst]
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I like Formula E, though a lot of it is about potential. The races and tracks are too short, but that will change with time. I'm looking forward to what the races are like next year without that crazy car change. Will they make them have a mandatory stop for tires?

The tracks are nutty sometimes, but I get that they want to bring the races to the cities. OTOH, I love the classic road courses.
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#2932578 - 06/13/18 10:13 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
marino Offline
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I like Formula E too (we have had the first Rome Eprix recently), but I think they should get rid of that FanBoost thing. It's stupid and ridiculous, and it takes away much of the sporting value.

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#2932609 - 06/13/18 01:03 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Originally Posted By: marino
I like Formula E too (we have had the first Rome Eprix recently), but I think they should get rid of that FanBoost thing. It's stupid and ridiculous, and it takes away much of the sporting value.
I hear ya. It's right up there with the DRS in F1. And don't F1 cars have another boost or did that go away recently? I haven't heard it mentioned lately. I don't think racing series should have "tricks" to make passes, they should have cars and drivers and tracks that make is possible (but not necessarily easy).
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#2932633 - 06/13/18 03:50 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
marino Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: marino
I like Formula E too (we have had the first Rome Eprix recently), but I think they should get rid of that FanBoost thing. It's stupid and ridiculous, and it takes away much of the sporting value.
I hear ya. It's right up there with the DRS in F1. And don't F1 cars have another boost or did that go away recently? I haven't heard it mentioned lately. I don't think racing series should have "tricks" to make passes, they should have cars and drivers and tracks that make is possible (but not necessarily easy).

Yeah, DRS is sporting nonsense. I actually understand that one better, though, as it was a kind of desperate attempt to have more on-track overtaking. It worked for a while - then last year they made the tyres and the cars themselves much wider, so the overtaking was gone again!
Thinking about it, many of the rule changes during the last 25 years have been attempts to make F1 races less boring. From refueling and tyre change, to having to keep the same setup from Q3 to race start... to me, they look like attempts to shuffle the cards a bit and make the results less predictable. Of course, all this makes a F1 race look more like a gamble, and detracts a lot from the sheer sporting merits of drivers and teams.

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#2932742 - 06/14/18 10:03 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Originally Posted By: marino
Thinking about it, many of the rule changes during the last 25 years have been attempts to make F1 races less boring. From refueling and tyre change, to having to keep the same setup from Q3 to race start... to me, they look like attempts to shuffle the cards a bit and make the results less predictable. Of course, all this makes a F1 race look more like a gamble, and detracts a lot from the sheer sporting merits of drivers and teams.
I agree, though the one thing I'd keep is the bit where the car you qualify with has to be the same as the car you start the race with. Using separate tech for qually vs. the race was just silly.
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#2932756 - 06/14/18 10:40 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: marino
I like Formula E too (we have had the first Rome Eprix recently), but I think they should get rid of that FanBoost thing. It's stupid and ridiculous, and it takes away much of the sporting value.


I hear ya. It's right up there with the DRS in F1. And don't F1 cars have another boost or did that go away recently? I haven't heard it mentioned lately. I don't think racing series should have "tricks" to make passes, they should have cars and drivers and tracks that make is possible (but not necessarily easy).


Before the hybrid era (2014-now), they outfitted the V8's with KERS (kinetic energy recovery system) which harvested electricity from the brakes. It could deploy that energy for about 6 secs per lap, and the boost was about 60 kW (80bhp).

Since 2014, KERS is now called ERS (energy recovery system) and an integral part of the power unit. It's good for around 120 kW (160bhp) and active at all times. It now consists of two parts, the MGU-K (which recovers kinetic energy from braking), and the MGU-H (which recovers energy from residual engine heat). The latter is the most complex part of the power unit, and it will most likely disappear in 2021, as the new regulations will attempt to reduce cost and level the playing field.

DRS is BS. It needs to go, and the tires need a rethink, too. I'm okay with different compounds for different strategies, but there should be at least one tire that can go a full race distance, and mandatory stops should be abolished.

I have always thought that the Brabham BT46B fan car was the perfect solution for F1's aerodynamic problems. The cars get all the downforce they need, and there's less "dirty" air behind the car, which should facilitate slipstreaming and overtaking.

And finally, all the complaints about the lack of noise baffle me, but not as much as the decision to bring the noise back! I thought the 2014 cars sounded awesome, a low, menacing growl, rather than the shrieking of the atmospheric V8 era. I thought it was great that people didn't need ear plugs at the track anymore.




Edited by zephonic (06/14/18 11:10 AM)
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#2932784 - 06/14/18 01:14 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Gary75 Offline
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I don't know what it is, but it feels like the v12 are really guttural, and I seem to connect with it more than a turbo whistle with v6. I'm sure there's a scientific reason why many prefer the sound of 10/12 cylinders despite them being slower than the hybrid era.

Here's a comparison

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#2932958 - 06/15/18 12:40 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
zephonic Offline
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It is ever more likely that RBR will use Honda power for 2019 and 2020. https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/mph-hot-honda-sets-red-bull-deal

If this really happens and RBR-Honda ends up being competitive, there's going to be much gnashing of teeth in Woking.

Alonso racked up some seriously bad karma. I feel for the guy.
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#2933066 - 06/16/18 07:49 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Gary75 Offline
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Yeah, he's always been a couple of years out of phase with competitiveness. Hindsight is a wonderful thing as they say. At least he managed to bag 2 WDC before the rot set in. It's too late now to do anything, he's essentially boxed himself into a corner and there's a lot of young talent without the baggage.
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#2933077 - 06/16/18 09:11 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
Phreakay Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gary75
I don't know what it is, but it feels like the v12 are really guttural, and I seem to connect with it more than a turbo whistle with v6. I'm sure there's a scientific reason why many prefer the sound of 10/12 cylinders despite them being slower than the hybrid era.

Here's a comparison






Time flies when you are having fun, and I will correct my earlier comment mentioning 2016 as the start of the silent era when it was 2014 as shown in the vid. I saw that lap from my seat in the Brabham stand on the inside of turn 1.

But they sound a lot better now than in 2014. And there is no audio system that can replicate the deafening sound of the earlier cars. The only thing louder I have heard is the RAAF F/A 18 Super Hornet that does a low level fly by and aerobatics at the Melbourne GP.
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#2933118 - 06/16/18 11:44 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Phreakay]
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OTOH, Alonso is doing quite well at Le Mans right now. Not all his moves are bad. wink
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#2933140 - 06/16/18 01:08 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
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Those V12 cars look like a handful! I would imagine the driver was pretty "wrung-out" after a full race in those! smile

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#2933256 - 06/17/18 10:26 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: FJR]
marino Offline
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So Fernando won the Le Mans 24. Not by himself, for sure - that's WEC after all grin - but I'm very glad to see this greatly talented driver back on the podium after so many years. Probably, a nice injection of positivity for his spirit, after all the frustrations and bad choices in F1. Since the chances of winning another F1 title seem to be very dim, I wish him years of victories and success in WEC and Indycar, the Triple Crown, etc. smile Despite his fame of not being easy to deal with, he remains one of the greatest drivers of the last 25 years.

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#2933257 - 06/17/18 10:29 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Originally Posted By: marino
So Fernando won the Le Mans 24. Not by himself, for sure - that's WEC after all grin - but I'm very glad to see this greatly talented driver back on the podium after so many years. Probably, a nice injection of positivity for his spirit, after all the frustrations and bad choices in F1. Since the chances of winning another F1 title seem to be very dim, I wish him years of victories and success in WEC and Indycar, the Triple Crown, etc. smile Despite his fame of not being easy to deal with, he remains one of the greatest drivers of the last 25 years.
He won the 24 Hours of Spa as well, and there's a decent chance he'll be part of the winning team of the 2018-2019 WEC title if I heard it right.

It would be cool to see him win Indy as well.
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#2933260 - 06/17/18 10:47 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
marino Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
He won the 24 Hours of Spa as well
The 6 hours of Spa, surely? grin wink

Quote:
there's a decent chance he'll be part of the winning team of the 2018-2019 WEC title if I heard it right.
He will contest both WEC and F1 this year, but I don't know about conflicting dates.

Quote:
It would be cool to see him win Indy as well.
He already had excellent chances to win last year... before the Honda engine abandoned him.

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#2933264 - 06/17/18 12:26 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
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Alonso was always going to win LeMans, his and the the other Toyota car were the only hybrid entries with far more speed. It was between the Toyota cars and it creates a lot of interest having Alonso win. It's a hollow win. He did well at Indy before his engine went but this is BS. Graham Hill had to graft for his triple crown and I hope he remains the only man to achieve it for a lot longer.
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#2933349 - 06/18/18 05:29 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Originally Posted By: Gary75
It's a hollow win.
Completing 24 hours at Le Mans isn't easy. Toyota will tell you that. While it would have been better if it were a year when there were more cars in the class with Toyota, it's still a win.

Originally Posted By: marino
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
He won the 24 Hours of Spa as well
The 6 hours of Spa, surely? grin wink
Oops, you're right. That's a different event altogether.
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#2933561 - 06/19/18 07:56 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
Theo Verelst Offline
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I recall a strange similarity in atmosphere driving through Le Mans that I pick up from seeing a piece the race on TV (in the evening).

Seems after the Audi etrons have left, toyota is introducing electrics.

T

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#2933615 - 06/19/18 10:34 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Theo Verelst]
zephonic Offline
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So, it's official! RedBullRacing and Honda are partnering up next season.

If they are competitive, there's going to be a warehouse full of sour grapes over at McLaren, even though they didn't have much of a choice.

I think the McLaren/Honda saga perfectly illustrates how hubris can ruin great potential:
1) If Ron Dennis hadn't insisted Honda come in a year earlier than they wanted or were ready for, McLaren would have coasted through 2015 with a competitive Mercedes PU. Honda would have had enough time to adequately prepare for 2016.
2) If McLaren's technical team hadn't insisted on the size-zero concept, which presented an insurmountable challenge for the Honda engineers, the PU could have been competitive sooner.

Still, the split was necessary, if only for McLaren to acknowledge their chassis isn't one of the best on the grid, and for Honda to develop outside the limelight.

But man, Alonso's career is a life lesson about karma, f--k.
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#2933624 - 06/19/18 10:59 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
So, it's official! RedBullRacing and Honda are partnering up next season.
Wow.

From the article on formula1.com:

"Red Bull have grown frustrated with current power unit suppliers Renault"

That's a bit of an understatement, isn't it? In fact, this season they've been less trouble than previous ones AFAIK, but they've not been happy with Renault for a while.
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#2933682 - 06/19/18 03:07 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
"Red Bull have grown frustrated with current power unit suppliers Renault"

That's a bit of an understatement, isn't it? In fact, this season they've been less trouble than previous ones AFAIK, but they've not been happy with Renault for a while.


It was mostly in 2015. When the new hybrid era started in 2014, Renault was pretty far behind Mercedes. The Merc was so superior that even a backmarker team like Williams scored points and podiums regularly. Nonetheless, Renault was still better than Ferrari, who really were nowhere, which was one of the reasons Alonso asked to be released. RBR did win a few GP's when Mercedes had a failure or shot themselves in the foot.

Come 2015, Ferrari took a huge step forward, but Mercedes remained superior. However, Renault figured they needed a different approach and came up with an altered design, which totally backfired (pun not intended) and turned out to be worse than the 2014 PU.
RBR instantly forgot they won four double championships with a Renault engine and publicly derided them. However, neither Mercedes nor Ferrari were willing to supply them so in the end they were forced to stick it out, although they got the nonsensical TAG-Heuer designation out of it.

Presumably, this falling out also prompted Renault to re-enter F1 with a works team.

By comparison, McLaren's public comments on the Honda PU last year are positively sanguine. If RBR-Honda are competitive right away everything will be great. But with RBR's history of airing dirty laundry in public, I don't know what will happen if they are off the pace again.



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#2933687 - 06/19/18 04:18 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino

Speaking of Ferrari: I was really doubtful when Marchionne became president. He knew about road cars, not racing. And when, a couple of years ago, he fired their chief motorist in a moment of crisis, *without replacing him*, I thought, "this man is nuts"... he was talking about a collaborative, "horizontal" structure. And most fans were convinced that Ferrari would never return to victory under Marchionne's guidance.

Well, at the start of the 2017 season, everyone could see that he was right. Mattia Binotto and his team of engineers have designed a superior engine, and Vettel is on the fight for the title again.


Indeed. I thought Marchionne was all hubris and no clue about F1. But he has proven me wrong, Ferrari is in the best shape it has been in since Todt's departure.
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#2934170 - 06/23/18 04:17 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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OMFG - That paint job on Paul Ricard Circuit is just horrendous. It makes the place look absolutely silly, and is nearly headache-inducing.
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#2934251 - 06/23/18 01:07 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
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How the mighty have fallen; McLaren and Williams starting last...


...and how did Grosjean manage to bin that?!?
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#2934584 - 06/25/18 02:11 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
How the mighty have fallen; McLaren and Williams starting last...
That was unbelievable. Though Williams has been up and down seemingly forever. Just when you think they're coming back, they step back. It's been kind of sad, really.


Originally Posted By: zephonic
...and how did Grosjean manage to bin that?!?
It wasn't a good day for most of the French drivers, ironically.
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#2934658 - 06/26/18 04:04 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
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https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fcsylt%2Ffiles%2F2018%2F01%2FViewing-figures-1200x676.jpg

Viewership has fallen nearly 50% since 2008, a freind works for a sports network that broadcasts F1. One of the biggest concerns in viewership relates to the very low interest in the under 35 age group.

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#2934674 - 06/26/18 06:20 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: gd1]
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Well F1 is tremendously boring. I use to love it in the 80's and early 90's but really have had to force myself to watch the past 15 years or so.

I don't see how they can attract young kids with the races as lame as they are. Even back in the 80's when I got into it as a teenager it was kind of boring but much much better than what's been going on.

They really need to do something to make it fun to watch. The only people I can see who watch it are the ones who got sucked in when it was a little better to watch.

The hover board was really cool though.

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#2934795 - 06/26/18 05:27 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: gd1]
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Originally Posted By: gd1
https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fcsylt%2Ffiles%2F2018%2F01%2FViewing-figures-1200x676.jpg

Viewership has fallen nearly 50% since 2008, a freind works for a sports network that broadcasts F1. One of the biggest concerns in viewership relates to the very low interest in the under 35 age group.
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#2934801 - 06/26/18 05:51 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
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Before the race, everyone was complaining about the "chicken"* on the long straight, but that's where just about all the passes happened! They're probably better off leaving it in.

Also, I had a thought about DRS and what we were saying about it previously in this thread. While it is contrived, I've noticed that the majority of the time, when someone passes someone else using DRS, the passee usually doesn't get him back. It is allowing faster cars to pass, so it might be alleviating the problem of the downforce and dirty air screwing up passing. It's a band-aid, but it's something for now.

* They were in France, and that's how they pronounce it!
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#2935498 - 07/01/18 07:50 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
marino Offline
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Austrian GP just ended. In a hurry:

Congrats to Max for a masterfully conducted race.

Now, from a "ferrarista" point of view: Why Kimi didn't let Seb pass in the end is beyond me. Four more points could show to be invaluable at the end of the season. Kimi is so beyond in the Driver's classification that he should have done the right thing for the team.

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#2935501 - 07/01/18 08:02 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Tomkeen Offline
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I'm glad he didn't though. Vettel hasn't been performing as good as he could/should lately. Kimi deserved second place. I never like it when a driver let's his teammate pass.

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#2935524 - 07/01/18 09:14 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino


Now, from a "ferrarista" point of view: Why Kimi didn't let Seb pass in the end is beyond me. Four more points could show to be invaluable at the end of the season. Kimi is so beyond in the Driver's classification that he should have done the right thing for the team.



From a racing point of view: I’m glad he did not. He has been sacrificed for Vettel’s benefit time and time again, and today Seb simply wasn’t fast enough to get close. I believe Raikkonen would be higher up in the championship if Ferrari offered a level playing field.

Other than that, I though this was an entertaining race, although a double DNF for Mercedes is unusual. They really lost the race with first VSC, when everybody else pitted.

Also, I think Spielberg is my favorite track. I love the way it flows, and the alpine scenery is beyond gorgeous.
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#2935529 - 07/01/18 09:31 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
marino Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: marino
Now, from a "ferrarista" point of view: Why Kimi didn't let Seb pass in the end is beyond me. Four more points could show to be invaluable at the end of the season. Kimi is so beyond in the Driver's classification that he should have done the right thing for the team.
From a racing point of view: I’m glad he did not. He has been sacrificed for Vettel’s benefit time and time again, and today Seb simply wasn’t fast enough to get close. I believe Raikkonen would be higher up in the championship if Ferrari offered a level playing field.

I'm not sure about that. As much as I love his driving, Kimi's performance has been *very* erratic in the last couple of years. And, despite his sporting merits and claims to the contrary, he's been hired to be Vettel's sidekick from the beginning, just like Bottas at MB. So it's silly not to behave like one when it's most needed - as he already did a few times.
Should Seb lose the championship by two or three points, this race will be remembered.

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#2935530 - 07/01/18 09:39 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
marino Offline
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Oh, and just to reiterate that I'm *not* unbiased when it comes to F1... grin

About the penalty inflicted to Seb in Q2, here's what the legendary Mario Andretti has to say:
"Dear stewards, a penalty that could affect a championship should not be imposed unless it's flagrant. In this case it clearly was NOT! #shame."

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#2935535 - 07/01/18 09:56 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Tomkeen Offline
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I think it's too early to affect the championship. Maybe if there are three or four races left and have similar points, but so many things can happen still.

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#2935572 - 07/01/18 02:10 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
Also, I think Spielberg is my favorite track. I love the way it flows, and the alpine scenery is beyond gorgeous.
Yes, though I think my favorite part is that it reminds me of the way tracks and races looked in the early 90s when I really started watching F1.

For a pro-American viewpoint (I'm not, but I think it's great for the team), Kevin Magnussen is seventh in the championship behind the big three of Merc, Ferrari, and RB. Haas has their best-ever result in their 50th race (and even if all of the big three had finished, they likely would have been 6th and 7th), and they're fifth in the championship. Grosjean finally got his first points this season. Good for all of them!
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#2935579 - 07/01/18 02:31 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino

So it's silly not to behave like one when it's most needed - as he already did a few times.
Should Seb lose the championship by two or three points, this race will be remembered.


Originally Posted By: marino

About the penalty inflicted to Seb in Q2, here's what the legendary Mario Andretti has to say:
"Dear stewards, a penalty that could affect a championship should not be imposed unless it's flagrant. In this case it clearly was NOT! #shame."


I have to agree with Tom here:

Originally Posted By: Tomkeen
I think it's too early to affect the championship. Maybe if there are three or four races left and have similar points, but so many things can happen still.


We're not even halfway into the season, too early to start denying drivers their dues.

Also, do we know if Raikkonen was instructed by the team to move over? I didn't hear anything on the broadcast. If he was not so instructed, he was racing for position and had every right to defend it. Not that I saw Vettel even coming close, so he would have had to actually slow down and let him through to make it happen, which would make Ferrari look really bad.



Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara

For a pro-American viewpoint (I'm not, but I think it's great for the team), Kevin Magnussen is seventh in the championship behind the big three of Merc, Ferrari, and RB. Haas has their best-ever result in their 50th race (and even if all of the big three had finished, they likely would have been 6th and 7th), and they're fifth in the championship. Grosjean finally got his first points this season. Good for all of them!


Yes, team Haas has been consistently impressive, even if Grosjean hasn't. They are definitely the best of the rest; let's hope it will generate more American interest in F1.
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#2935612 - 07/01/18 06:02 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
marino Offline
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Guys, you are *all* right about Kimi doing his race and not letting Seb pass; it was the right decision in the spirit of fair racing.

But, as I said, this is Ferrari, and in these cases, I'm only seeing Red. grin grin

More seriously, I see *everybody* doing shameless team strategies. Besides the obvious lie that "both our drivers have equal opportunities" repeated by Mercedes and Ferrari at every GP, you might remember that at Monaco, Mercedes asked the driver of a *different* team - that was Ocon - to let the two MB cars pass him easily. And he was not lapped if memory serves; he was fighting for position. Toto Wolff admitted it himself with no problem. And no penality for that; not even a fine or a reprimand.

So why should Ferrari follow strict sporting rules, when their main opponents are ignoring them so blatantly?

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#2936715 - 07/08/18 08:55 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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#2936733 - 07/08/18 12:42 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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That race was a good 'un.
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#2936736 - 07/08/18 12:54 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Congrats with today's victory, Carlo. Ferrari were the team to beat at Silverstone, Mercedes need to step up their game. The car is good, but they're not on top of things when it comes to strategy.

The last couple of years it didn't matter as their car was usually miles ahead of the rest anyway. But with Ferrari this competitive, they need to bring their A-game every time.

It's been an interesting season so far.
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#2936759 - 07/08/18 03:24 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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To be sure, I still think that MB will be the car to beat during the last part of the championship. They have a lot of money to spend on development, and a lot of determination; and they have Lewis Hamilton.

I like Lewis like a kick on my front teeth, but it can't be denied that he's a first-rate champion. He performed a stunning comeback today, worthy of the incredible driver that he is.
Seb overtaking Bottas, and the Kimi/Max duel also were stunning highlights of this race, one of the best of the last years.

I really regret about Kimi hitting Hamilton on Lap 1. It was Kimi's mistake, as he said himself, and the 10 sec penalty wasn't out of place. Unfortunately, that also deprived us of a possible dogfight confrontation between the two championship leaders, which I would have loved to see. Btw, Lewis had a dreadful start.

Speaking of which... I heard Wolff saying something about Kimi hitting Lewis intentionally. Now, if you have vaguely been into Formula 1 for the past 20 years, you do *not* accuse Kimi Raikkonen of such a move. Despite being a hard fighter, he's the most correct driver I have ever watched in my life. Everybody knows that. So stop the insinuations and learn to lose with dignity.

The Max report: After an incredible move on Kimi, Verstappen gave his worst by spinning off by himself. Looks like this is Max, take it or leave it.

I really can't wait to see Charles Leclerc on a Ferrari, possibly next year. For now, I'm enjoying this great championship.

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#2936766 - 07/08/18 05:12 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino
To be sure, I still think that MB will be the car to beat during the last part of the championship. They have a lot of money to spend on development, and a lot of determination; and they have Lewis Hamilton.


I'm pretty sure Ferrari's budget is right up there with Mercedes', and they get a disproportionally large slice of the F1 pie just for showing up.
In my observation, Ferrari and Mercedes are neck to neck. Certain tracks suit Ferrari better, others suit the Mercedes better. Ferrari does seem to be better on the tires, though.

Originally Posted By: marino

I really regret about Kimi hitting Hamilton on Lap 1. It was Kimi's mistake, as he said himself, and the 10 sec penalty wasn't out of place. Unfortunately, that also deprived us of a possible dogfight confrontation between the two championship leaders, which I would have loved to see. Btw, Lewis had a dreadful start.


Yeah, but I thought it was just a racing incident, and the penalty a bit harsh. Vettel got only a 5s penalty last week for something similar.
Originally Posted By: marino

Speaking of which... I heard Wolff saying something about Kimi hitting Lewis intentionally. Now, if you have vaguely been into Formula 1 for the past 20 years, you do *not* accuse Kimi Raikkonen of such a move. Despite being a hard fighter, he's the most correct driver I have ever watched in my life.


I didn't hear Wolff say that, but I don't believe Raikkonen would do anything like that, ever.


Originally Posted By: marino

The Max report: After an incredible move on Kimi, Verstappen gave his worst by spinning off by himself. Looks like this is Max, take it or leave it.


"Fast and Flawed In Equal Measure", is the saying, I believe.

Originally Posted By: marino

I really can't wait to see Charles Leclerc on a Ferrari, possibly next year. For now, I'm enjoying this great championship.


Yeah, it's great to finally have Vettel and Hamilton slug it out. I haven't been much of a Vettel fan since Turkey 2010, but having both of them gun for their fifth title is the stuff legends are made off.
And Charles Leclerc is very impressive. I bet he'd give Seb a run for his money!
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#2936772 - 07/08/18 06:05 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: marino

The Max report: After an incredible move on Kimi, Verstappen gave his worst by spinning off by himself. Looks like this is Max, take it or leave it.


"Fast and Flawed In Equal Measure", is the saying, I believe.
The team is saying that he had a brake-by-wire issue that first appeared on the first lap, went away, and then came back.

Quote:
Then after the second safety car I braked for Turn 16 and the pedal literally went to the floor, the rear brakes locked up and I spun off the track.


If so, not his fault. He's been really steady lately and until that point in the race was fighting hard and fair. I'd say he's looking good if he keeps it up.
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#2936788 - 07/08/18 07:59 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
marino Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
I'm pretty sure Ferrari's budget is right up there with Mercedes', and they get a disproportionally large slice of the F1 pie just for showing up.
I'm not sure about the first statement; Mercedes' budget is really huge. Ferrari money come from FIAT, which is not in its best shape.
The second statement is absolutely true, though; not quite fair, obviously. I think it will end soon.

Quote:
Charles Leclerc is very impressive. I bet he'd give Seb a run for his money!
I would die for a Ferrari team with Leclerc and Ricciardo!! grin

Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
He's been really steady lately and until that point in the race was fighting hard and fair. I'd say he's looking good if he keeps it up.
Max is an incredible talent already. His counter-move on Kimi was fabulous. Unfortunately, it looks like his dad has taught him a kind of "hit first at all cost" attitude... probably, he will need to get rid of that as an essential step toward maturity.

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#2936801 - 07/08/18 11:08 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Like with soccer, my interest is only moderate when excitement is about injuries and rigged games, orchestrated moves, etc. Sports as communication is logical, but new rules are needed when competition is replaced by lack of putting the competition really behind. Sport isn't dancing, I say. Not that it should be war, but acting like a good sports person with team spirit and achieving the kind of victory people can relate to and learn from isn't just about technology and some fun rituals. In that sense logical developments in F1 must include allowing the parameters of the race to talk about character and even the risk of using new technology. The risk to lose I mean, not to get hurt.

T

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#2936804 - 07/09/18 12:24 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino
Originally Posted By: zephonic
I'm pretty sure Ferrari's budget is right up there with Mercedes', and they get a disproportionally large slice of the F1 pie just for showing up.
I'm not sure about the first statement; Mercedes' budget is really huge. Ferrari money come from FIAT, which is not in its best shape.
The second statement is absolutely true, though; not quite fair, obviously. I think it will end soon.


A quick google search unearths the following:

https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/236949/budgets-for-the-formula-1-teams-for-2018

Mercedes ~€450 million
Ferrari ~€430 million
Red Bull ~€350 million
McLaren ~€250 million
Renault ~€200 million
Sauber ~€135 million
Williams ~€135 million
Toro Rosso ~€125 million
Haas ~€110 million
Force India ~€110 million

AFAIK, most of the teams are run as for-profit businesses and largely self-sufficient. For example, parent company Daimler AG only funds about 10% of Mercedes F1's total budget. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132202/mercedes-f1-finances-explained

In terms of marketing and advertising, ~€45 million per year is an absolute bargain for the kind of exposure and brand awareness that F1 offers.


Originally Posted By: marino

I would die for a Ferrari team with Leclerc and Ricciardo!! grin


Fire!


Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
The team is saying that he had a brake-by-wire issue that first appeared on the first lap, went away, and then came back.

Quote:
Then after the second safety car I braked for Turn 16 and the pedal literally went to the floor, the rear brakes locked up and I spun off the track.


If so, not his fault. He's been really steady lately and until that point in the race was fighting hard and fair. I'd say he's looking good if he keeps it up.


You're right, of course. But I saw Verstappen spin and just assumed he was being rash again! grin
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#2936824 - 07/09/18 05:27 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
Tedi Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: gd1
https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fcsylt%2Ffiles%2F2018%2F01%2FViewing-figures-1200x676.jpg

Viewership has fallen nearly 50% since 2008, a freind works for a sports network that broadcasts F1. One of the biggest concerns in viewership relates to the very low interest in the under 35 age group.


very interesting and also have a lot of sense

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#2936859 - 07/09/18 08:46 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
You're right, of course. But I saw Verstappen spin and just assumed he was being rash again! grin
roll
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#2938890 - 07/22/18 07:48 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
zephonic Offline
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Sorry, Carlo, but I have to bite my tongue not to make jokes about the way Vettel binned it today. Reminiscent of Singapore last year, but worse.

Seems like a bit of karmic payback for the way they told Raikkonen to let him pass.


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#2938893 - 07/22/18 08:06 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
marino Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
Sorry, Carlo, but I have to bite my tongue not to make jokes about the way Vettel binned it today.

Go ahead, please....


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#2938896 - 07/22/18 08:11 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
zephonic Offline
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Sorry, my friend. Not all is lost!

Frankly, I feel like Raikkonen could have won it today if Ferrari had given him a better strategy. If he had pitted one lap after Hamilton, he'd have been in business.
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#2938920 - 07/22/18 12:32 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Ok, I think I had enough of motor racing for today.

First, we learn that Marchionne is suddendly at the point of death... then Seb makes a stupid mistake and hits the wall all by himself (nobody else did it in such a spectacular way, even during the rain showers)... Kimi, seemingly half-asleep (not for the first time) doesn't even attempt to get to the Mercedeses after the SC... AND my favorite young driver, Charles Leclerc, who has hit the points zone most of times this year, ended up last, more or less...

Better to get back to music, and dreaming of a Ricciardo-Leclerc duo at Ferrari. grin

Congrats to Hamilton and the MB team; they lead a perfect race today.

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#2938922 - 07/22/18 12:37 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
marino Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
Seems like a bit of karmic payback for the way they told Raikkonen to let him pass.

Again: *Everybody* does it; especially Mercedes. That's Bottas main role at MB. Did you notice when Valtteri was told to "keep position, sorry", after his attempts to attack Hamilton toward the end?

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#2938953 - 07/22/18 06:26 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Bummer about Marchionne. It seems like that was a shock and surprise for nearly everyone.
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#2938966 - 07/22/18 08:58 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Seems like a bit of karmic payback for the way they told Raikkonen to let him pass.

Again: *Everybody* does it; especially Mercedes. That's Bottas main role at MB. Did you notice when Valtteri was told to "keep position, sorry", after his attempts to attack Hamilton toward the end?


I know you are a true tifosi (tifoso?), but I don't entirely agree with you there. Rosberg's WDC in 2016 was proof positive that Mercedes will let its drivers race when they are both in contention.

Raikkonen was ahead of Vettel and was told to let him through. Bottas was behind Hamilton and had a go at it, but he couldn't make it stick and they told him to hold station so as not to jeopardize the double.

Both cases absolutely, positively qualify as team orders, I agree, but two very different situations.
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#2938969 - 07/22/18 11:14 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
marino Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: marino
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Seems like a bit of karmic payback for the way they told Raikkonen to let him pass.

Again: *Everybody* does it; especially Mercedes. That's Bottas main role at MB. Did you notice when Valtteri was told to "keep position, sorry", after his attempts to attack Hamilton toward the end?


I know you are a true tifosi (tifoso?), but I don't entirely agree with you there. Rosberg's WDC in 2016 was proof positive that Mercedes will let its drivers race when they are both in contention.

That was different; Hamilton and Rosberg were fighting for the title all along the 2016 championship. So Mercedes didn't care which one would get the title, as long as it was one of their drivers.
Here, we have two clear contenders, Lewis and Seb, and their teammates are rather behind in the rankings, so both teams have the interest to push their main drivers to the more fruitful positions.
And BTW, Ferrari let Kimi finish 2nd in Austria.

Quote:
Raikkonen was ahead of Vettel and was told to let him through. Bottas was behind Hamilton and had a go at it, but he couldn't make it stick and they told him to hold station so as not to jeopardize the double.

Both cases absolutely, positively qualify as team orders, I agree, but two very different situations.

Um, I have re-watched the last laps, and Bottas was clearly assaulting Lewis; he seemed to have that extra speed left. I think that without the team orders, Bottas could have won the race. I could be wrong, of course.
And yes, I am a true tifoso. grin OTOH, I like to think that this doesn't prevent me from seeing things... wink ...most of the time, at least. grin

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#2938973 - 07/23/18 01:01 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino

Um, I have re-watched the last laps, and Bottas was clearly assaulting Lewis; he seemed to have that extra speed left. I think that without the team orders, Bottas could have won the race.


Bottas was on fresher tires, and yes he seemed to be a bit faster. But could he have muscled his way past a determined Hamilton in changing track conditions? I don't know about that.

Hamilton was driving with his knife between his teeth and was not going to let Bottas through. If Bottas had launched a sustainable attack, I think it could have easily ended with a double DNF.


I think Bottas is a great driver, but he's more like a Jenson Button or Nico Rosberg. Both were world champions, and both beat Hamilton over a season (2011 and 2016). I think Bottas is capable of doing the same, but he will have to dig deeper and be more lucky.
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#2941186 - 08/03/18 12:31 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Wow, this is totally unexpected!

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/news/f1/updated-daniel-ricciardo-leave-red-bull-racing-renault

It's a brave decision, will it be like Hamilton's move to Mercedes or like Alonso's move to McLaren? Only time will tell.

I wish him the best, he's one of the most sympathetic characters in F1.
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#2941254 - 08/03/18 08:59 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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shocked
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#2941261 - 08/03/18 11:14 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
marino Offline
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Mmmmm. A two-year contract. To my understanding, Ricciardo had not signed with Red Bull because he absolutely wanted a one-year deal... (presumably, in order to be ready for Mercedes or Ferrari in 2020)
A curious move, really. Perhaps Renault agreed to pay Daniel the huge amount of money that Ferrari wasn't willing to pay... or perhaps, he just prefers to stay away from Honda engines... wink

I would really have liked to see Ricciardo at Ferrari btw. Behind his captivating smile, he's one of the toughest - and correct at the same time - drivers in the Circus.

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#2941267 - 08/04/18 01:14 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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I think it may have played out like this. Had Ricciardo gone to either Mercedes or Ferrari he would have been a second string driver to either Hamilton or Vettel. Given both are strong teams and as the manufacturers now control F1 the best result he could have expected is to be is 2nd behind either of the number 1 drivers.

So faced with decision of driving for the best of the rest. Given Honda's form this year I guess he figured he has a better chance of being a front runner powered by Renault than by Honda. Plus if he gets in front of Vettel or Hamilton he is not going to be told to pull over and let them through.

With the proliferation of virtual teams for example, Haas and Ferrari, Mercedes and Force India the same thing can happen. Being the No 1 driver with Renault power means he is free to race. Lets hope the car is good enough to compete in 2019.
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#2941273 - 08/04/18 03:25 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Phreakay]
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Originally Posted By: Markay
Lets hope the car is good enough to compete in 2019.
That's the gamble he's taking, ain't it? RB has had problems with the Renault power unit for years. Maybe they have plans to address that next year and beyond. It could be similar to MB, where they were also-rans and many thought Hamilton was crazy to switch, but he knew something we didn't. I've long suspected they told him in negotiations that they had something up their sleeve. Perhaps the same has happened with Ricciardo and Renault.

It will also be interesting to see who takes that seat at RB. I presume it will be Gasly or Hartley, but I haven't paid too much attention to either. I guess Gasly is doing better. Or they could recall Sainz and see if he and Max can get along this time...
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#2941473 - 08/05/18 03:04 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino
Mmmmm. A two-year contract. To my understanding, Ricciardo had not signed with Red Bull because he absolutely wanted a one-year deal... (presumably, in order to be ready for Mercedes or Ferrari in 2020)
A curious move, really. Perhaps Renault agreed to pay Daniel the huge amount of money that Ferrari wasn't willing to pay... or perhaps, he just prefers to stay away from Honda engines... wink

I would really have liked to see Ricciardo at Ferrari btw. Behind his captivating smile, he's one of the toughest - and correct at the same time - drivers in the Circus.



Where it gets odd is that Horner said they agreed to a one-year deal with Ricciardo. It is understood in the paddock that Ricciardo is not welcome at Ferrari as long as Vettel is there, who hasn't forgotten how he was comprehensively beaten by RIC in 2014.

My best guess is that he sees RBR is steadily becoming Verstappen's team, and he simply doesn't want to play second fiddle, especially as he has outscored his teammates in every season since he came to RBR.

While money is certainly a factor, I think the thought of being molded into Webber 2.0 is ultimately what made him decide to jump ship. Perhaps he hopes his move to Renault will work out the way Hamilton's move to Mercedes did. Or he believes Honda will simply not be up to the task.



Originally Posted By: Markay
I think it may have played out like this. Had Ricciardo gone to either Mercedes or Ferrari he would have been a second string driver to either Hamilton or Vettel. Given both are strong teams and as the manufacturers now control F1 the best result he could have expected is to be is 2nd behind either of the number 1 drivers.

So faced with decision of driving for the best of the rest. Given Honda's form this year I guess he figured he has a better chance of being a front runner powered by Renault than by Honda. Plus if he gets in front of Vettel or Hamilton he is not going to be told to pull over and let them through.

With the proliferation of virtual teams for example, Haas and Ferrari, Mercedes and Force India the same thing can happen. Being the No 1 driver with Renault power means he is free to race. Lets hope the car is good enough to compete in 2019.


Mercedes had already inked both Hamilton and Bottas for 2019. Like I said above, Ferrari was always gonna be a long shot with Vettel there. It was generally believed RIC would stay put, even RBR was surprised by this announcement as they had more or less agreed on the terms.

But indeed, Renault was the only works team available, the only place where he would be allowed to just race. I'm not convinced it will be a success, but I respect his decision as it is somewhat of a leap into the unknown, it takes courage.


Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
RB has had problems with the Renault power unit for years. Maybe they have plans to address that next year and beyond.


Well, if Honda makes good, it's all gonna work out brilliantly for RBR. McLaren provided the test mule and they get a competitive PU.

If it is gonna be more of what we have already seen, Honda is going to wish they never hooked up with them. Whatever public criticism McLaren expressed pales in comparison to the load of garbage RBR unleashed on Renault when they had one uncompetitive season.


And finally, there is a rumor floating around that Adrian Newey might leave RBR, possibly for Renault. I don't see that happening (Newey is part-owner of RBR), but if it did, it will be like two gigantic middle fingers from the Regié to RedBull.
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#2941506 - 08/05/18 08:17 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
RB has had problems with the Renault power unit for years. Maybe they have plans to address that next year and beyond.


Well, if Honda makes good, it's all gonna work out brilliantly for RBR. McLaren provided the test mule and they get a competitive PU.

If it is gonna be more of what we have already seen, Honda is going to wish they never hooked up with them. Whatever public criticism McLaren expressed pales in comparison to the load of garbage RBR unleashed on Renault when they had one uncompetitive season.


And finally, there is a rumor floating around that Adrian Newey might leave RBR, possibly for Renault. I don't see that happening (Newey is part-owner of RBR), but if it did, it will be like two gigantic middle fingers from the Regié to RedBull.
What I meant was that "Maybe Renault have plans to address that next year and beyond." See, that makes this similar to what Hamilton did. He left McLaren to go to the team of the engine supplier and now Ricciardo is doing the same thing and I'm sure hoping for a similar result.

As far as the Honda power plant, I'd like to think they're going to get it right, but their last foray into F1 didn't work out well. Of course, things are different now. They always are.

I've always been surprised Newey stayed at RBR so long. He seems to like moving around. He could always sell his shares, I'm sure.
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#2943116 - 08/14/18 10:26 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
zephonic Offline
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So sad to hear this, but not unexpected.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138025/alonso-will-not-race-in-f1-in-2019

I guess it’s better than him struggling in the back of the field for scraps, but I will miss him. One of my favs of all time, and certainly my fav driver currently in F1.
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#2943130 - 08/14/18 11:08 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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That sucks. I've always been a fan of his, but he's struggled with the right ride and luck since those early championships.
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#2946233 - 09/02/18 07:56 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
marino Offline
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Just fantastic...

First, Seb makes a mistake on the first lap, ruining his race.

Then, Ferrari fall for Mercedes's dirty trick, and call Kimi to pit too early, ruining his race too.

Then, the Italian tifosi give the umpteenth demonstration of their unability to take a defeat, booing the winners just for having done a better job. Congratulations.

Bleaaaargh. I might start following the Indycar series next year. I think Fernando is going to be in it....

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#2946236 - 09/02/18 08:23 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Almost forgot... an applause to Hamilton and the Mecedes team; they led a perfect race with no mistakes. I say (reluctantly) that they are strong favorites for the final championship victory, and deservedly so.

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#2946269 - 09/02/18 02:46 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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I thought of you, Carlo, when the pass and the win happened. It was a great race, but Ferrari just pushed too much on that set of tires. Seb has made a few crucial mistakes this season. Does he realize it? Will he learn from them? I hope so as it will make the championship more interesting.
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#2946278 - 09/02/18 05:48 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
marino Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Ferrari just pushed too much on that set of tires.
They were too naive. The Mercedes people went out of the box with their tires, so Ferrari thought that Lewis was coming in, and called Kimi in to react. But Lewis stayed out for several more laps. The result obviously, was that Kimi's tires were destroyed at the end.

Quote:
Seb has made a few crucial mistakes this season. Does he realize it?
Of course he does - he's a clever guy. But Ferrari fans are losing their trust in Seb. A racing champion in a red car has to be absolutely focused and ready for everything. I'm sure that I'd like him a lot in person - but he's not *ferocious* enough at the moment. Not as much as Hamilton, anyway.

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#2946319 - 09/03/18 06:02 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Originally Posted By: marino
Quote:
Seb has made a few crucial mistakes this season. Does he realize it?
Of course he does - he's a clever guy. But Ferrari fans are losing their trust in Seb. A racing champion in a red car has to be absolutely focused and ready for everything. I'm sure that I'd like him a lot in person - but he's not *ferocious* enough at the moment. Not as much as Hamilton, anyway.
I don't know. He seemed to think that what happened in Variante della Roggia wasn't his fault at all. Maybe after seeing the replay he will (hopefully for his sake), but it seems like a little more thought on his part could have minimized his losses there.

At the very least, I agree that he doesn't seem to have the drive that Hamilton does right now. And, he's been making mistakes at Ferrari for years, pushing at times he shouldn't and maximizing instead of minimizing his losses. This one, Germany this year, running into Hamilton at Azerbajan the other year, run ins he's had with backmarkers when he's been mixed up with those at times, as you probably know, the list goes on and on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not down on the guy. Quite the opposite, I'd like to see him do better, Kimi too. But right now it seems like it's Lewis (the man) vs. Ferrari (the car) so while Ferrari seems to have the better car right now, Lewis and Merc are outdriving them.
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#2946339 - 09/03/18 07:46 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
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I think you are sadly (for me) right. I like the guy a lot, at least as much as I dislike Hamilton - but we are talking about pure racing, Ham has the edge right now - and Kimi's performances have been rather intermittent since he rejoined Ferrari. I was hopeful that having a better car (in the last couple of years) would motivate Seb to give his very best - but he seems to surrender, at least in part, to the *huge* pressure of being a Ferrari driver. To be fair, the expectations are so ridiculous that very few individuals can bear them. You are constantly under scrutiny, both from the fans and the bosses. But Vettel is showing such fragility that the championship seems at danger mainly because of that.
As I said before, I'm dreaming of a Ferrari team with Ricciardo and Leclerc...

Edit: Oh, and I'm pretty sure that Seb is very aware of his mistakes, in spite of what he says to the media....

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#2946362 - 09/03/18 11:12 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Yeah, you guys are pretty tough on your Ferrari drivers. It's all your fault, Carlo. poke wink

I wonder if anything will push Seb to really go for it again. Will having 4 championships to Lewis' apparently inevitable 5 do it? Or does he have it at all anymore? In his post race interview, he said things like "it's not the end of the world," "life goes on," etc. While I do agree with those thoughts in general, they don't sound like a competitive racing driver. It's like he's swung too far the other way.
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#2946368 - 09/03/18 11:44 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Yeah, you guys are pretty tough on your Ferrari drivers. It's all your fault, Carlo. poke wink

I wonder if anything will push Seb to really go for it again. Will having 4 championships to Lewis' apparently inevitable 5 do it? Or does he have it at all anymore? In his post race interview, he said things like "it's not the end of the world," "life goes on," etc. While I do agree with those thoughts in general, they don't sound like a competitive racing driver. It's like he's swung too far the other way.
I think he might be just trying to anesthetize the embarassment for having let down all those millions Ferrari fans... playing it down might be a way to avoid endless, ferocious polemics - for a while at least.
Now if you would kindly launch some other discussion topic, like Lewis' sex life or something, while I'm trying to focus on something else for a couple of minutes, that would be terrific... grin freak

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#2946369 - 09/03/18 11:45 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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(...I'm *joking*, ok?!) wink

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#2946437 - 09/03/18 07:54 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Originally Posted By: marino
(...I'm *joking*, ok?!) wink
roll

Get to work, you! cop
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#2947773 - 09/12/18 04:55 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
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#2947793 - 09/12/18 06:42 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Makes sense for Ferrari, they are looking to the future when Alonso Vettel moves on. Kimi's beyond his best and if he wants to go round for another two years a second league team is his only option.


Edited by Markay (09/13/18 01:48 AM)
Edit Reason: Brain fade
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#2947879 - 09/12/18 12:30 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Phreakay]
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Leclerc has been the talk of the paddock so it will be interesting to see what he can do with a top car. Also, maybe he will push Vettel to be better than he has been with Ferrari (see the discussion Carlo and I had above for what I mean).
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#2947950 - 09/12/18 05:08 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
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I have mixed feelings about Ferrari hiring Leclerc. Usually, Ferrari have a definite lead driver at any given time, so we could see the youngster forced to play a supporting role to Vettel, a role which he could take well or less well.
In my view, Kimi was already doing a good job of pushing Seb - although a bit intermittent...
I would almost prefer to see Leclerc outperform Vettel from the start - and become first drive, and win the next championship... one can dream, right? grin

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#2947953 - 09/12/18 05:24 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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And another reason for concern: The row of errors that Vettel seems to be making could be due in part to the *huge* pressure of being a Ferrari driver, where they put your every move under scrutiny. And if this is taking its toll on a four-time world champion, I can't imagine what it will mean for a 20-year old. Leclerc will learn on his first mistake, that spinning off in a Ferrari has a very different weight that doing the same in a Sauber...

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#2948086 - 09/13/18 11:09 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Originally Posted By: marino
I would almost prefer to see Leclerc outperform Vettel from the start - and become first drive, and win the next championship... one can dream, right? grin
grin thu
Originally Posted By: marino
And if this is taking its toll on a four-time world champion, I can't imagine what it will mean for a 20-year old.
I just realized that. Has Ferrari had anyone that young or inexperienced on the team ever, much less in the last 20 or 30 years? I just looked at a list and a quick glance didn't strike me as them ever having a driver as young as Leclerc. If so, best wishes to him. I hope he thrives.
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#2948098 - 09/13/18 11:43 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Has Ferrari had anyone that young or inexperienced on the team ever, much less in the last 20 or 30 years? I just looked at a list and a quick glance didn't strike me as them ever having a driver as young as Leclerc.


Ricardo Rodriguez was 19 y.o. when he joined Ferrari. It was 1961... freak

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#2948099 - 09/13/18 11:45 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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Because Kimi is Kimi!! grin


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#2948116 - 09/13/18 01:09 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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I've been following Kimi on instagram, and it's hilarious. It's really reflective of him (though sometimes with his kid it's cute or whatever) when you read his caption. For example

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmz-dVShl_F/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmqQq1ghpeO/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
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#2948948 - 09/18/18 01:36 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
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After Singapore my conclusion is that this is Hamilton’s championship to lose. The Ferrari may still be a marginally faster car all around, but Mercedes is firing on all cylinders and the Scuderia will need to bring their A game every time if they want to have a shot at it.

Curious to see Ricciardo almost neutered after announcing his departure.
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#2949048 - 09/19/18 06:22 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Probably, at this point Hamilton couldn't lose this championship even if he tried.

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#2949088 - 09/19/18 08:38 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Tomkeen Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic

Curious to see Ricciardo almost neutered after announcing his departure.


He's trying so hard not to say anything negative about the Renault engine. Poor guy snax snax

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#2949124 - 09/19/18 12:03 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Tomkeen]
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Originally Posted By: Tomkeen
Originally Posted By: zephonic

Curious to see Ricciardo almost neutered after announcing his departure.


He's trying so hard not to say anything negative about the Renault engine. Poor guy snax snax


That, but also Max seems to have outgrown him in almost every way(except humor)...

We will see next year who laughs last, Honda still might be a step down from Renault..
And he might end up battling Max again for 5th next season...

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#2951824 - 10/07/18 12:26 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: KorgyPorky]
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That Max is just too funny, sometimes!!

"Unfortunately, Kimi chose the wrong line, he also could have just waited for me!" roll

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#2951942 - 10/08/18 08:58 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: FJR]
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This championship is pretty much over; Ferrari are in disarray and Mercedes is bringing their A game every time.

Apparently, since Marchionne’s passing there has been a power struggle between Arrivabene and Binotto at the Scuderia.

Or at least I read that is what is being reported in the Italian media. Carlo, have you read/heard anything specific about that?
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#2951943 - 10/08/18 09:06 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
there has been a power struggle between Arrivabene and Binotto at the Scuderia.


Is that anything like Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra? laugh
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#2951946 - 10/08/18 09:21 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Synthoid]
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Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: zephonic
there has been a power struggle between Arrivabene and Binotto at the Scuderia.


Is that anything like Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra? laugh
roll

Vettel says he wasn't desperate when he made the move on Max. I thought it looked like the Red Mist to me.

I'm hoping the Scuderia turn it on these last few races and make it a championship again. Merc has been unbelievable the past few events and if they win it all they deserve it, but it kind of sucks that this will go down as another season where Hamilton&Merc/Vettel&Ferrari started out competitive but Ferrari slid as the season went on (that happened before, right?).
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#2952010 - 10/08/18 03:27 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
Apparently, since Marchionne’s passing there has been a power struggle between Arrivabene and Binotto at the Scuderia.

Or at least I read that is what is being reported in the Italian media. Carlo, have you read/heard anything specific about that?

I have read something about it, but I've also read every other kind of speculations, and I just don't know where the truth is.
What's obvious is - either something strange is going on at Ferrari, or simply, in the last month or two, Mercedes have developed their car at a level and pace that Ferrari haven't been able to match.

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#2952041 - 10/09/18 12:48 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
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I just read an article by Mark Hughes about post-Marchionne Ferrari in the November issue of Motorsport Magazine.

The name of the article is "Scuderia's succession scramble" and I'll leave a few quotes here:

[about Arrivabene] "His job was to carry out Marchionne's instructions regarding the running of the team. He wasn't empowered in the same way as other team principals, he was there to keep the ship steady."

[about Binotto] "Increasingly, Marchionne was taking his readings from Binotto - and not Arrivabene - of how things were going and what was needed."

"The rumors strongly suggested that for 2019 Marchionne planned on replacing Arrivabene as team principal with Binotto."

"With the technical group re-energized and now consistently the most creative and effective of all, outstripping even Mercedes, now Marchionne needed to get the team operation running to a similar level. These were going to be his first moves towards achieving that. But he died before they came to be. So Arrivabene gets to stay and Binotto's promotion to team principal is delayed indefinitely - probably for as long as Arrivabene is there."

"In the emergency restructuring following Marchionne's death, he wasn't replaced by one man, but two. John Elkann [member of the Agnelli family, owners of Fiat and Ferrari] was named chairman. Louis Camilleri was appointed CEO. Camilleri and Arrivabene have a relationship going back more than 15 years and are said to be close.

"Camilleri seems not to be planning the sort of hands-on approach of Marchionne. Asked at Monza about driver choice, he said "That's a matter for Maurizio [Arrivabene]."

"It seems pretty clear the alliance with Mercedes forged by Marchionne is a thing of the past. Arrivabene seems to be trying to block anything Toto Wolff is suggesting and appears to be trying now to align Ferrari more with Red Bull."

"There is a part of the [Agnelli] family that resented the power Marchionne had. He had radically restructured things and worryingly there seems to be a mood among them of the need to fix what they perceive he did wrong."

https://shop.motorsportmagazine.com/product/backIssueView/backIssue/MSM9411/november-2018


I did suspect that Marchionne's untimely death would have a profound effect on Ferrari (and the FIAT group). That seems to have come to pass.


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#2952046 - 10/09/18 02:29 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Phreakay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3089
Loc: Australia
Well given Ferrari have the largest budget and team members in F1 there is something seriously wrong with their driver management.

The poor on track decisions from Vettel and Raikkonen seem to be made against a background of desperation. Doesn't bode well for Leclerc being nutured and developed to his full potential.

Maybe Kimi took all this into account in deciding to move to the junior Ferrari team, Alfa Romeo Sauber.

Aligning with Red Bull in FIA negotiations? Christian Horner has already said he is ambivalent about remaining in F1 post 2020. A poor Honda powered 2019 season might help him make up his mind.
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#2952253 - 10/09/18 06:22 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
marino Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/20/00
Posts: 7999
Loc: Rome, Italy
Originally Posted By: zephonic
I just read an article by Mark Hughes about post-Marchionne Ferrari in the November issue of Motorsport Magazine.

Thanks. There seems to be some truth in that, as well as some debatable statements. Also, Ross Brawn recently spoke about the same subject.
However, I'm more inclined to consider a more mundane hypothesis:

Mercedes spent 30 million extra-budget to beat Ferrari

It's from the Italian Motorsport.com site, and it goes into rather precise details. Add to this the stellar financial bonus that has been promised to Toto for winning a fifth consecutive title, and you will have a rather convincing scenario.
Unfortunately, the article is in Italian only; it's not on the International version of Motorsport.com.

I'm not bashing Mercedes for doing that; all the money in the world can't help you if you aren't able to do a great job, and they obviously did it.

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#2952363 - 10/10/18 09:59 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
JohnH Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 1327
I am starting to lose interest as F1 is returning back to the 2000-2004 days, as Nigel Roebuck says- "when you left the house certain of the outcome of the weekend. " All Louis all the time. Not sure why I'm even bothering with qualifying also- same thing every week and no surprises. Indy Car is climbing and getting more exciting with terrific competion-the new car that looks like the old one and nobody is winning every session and race. There's no stopping Louis any time in the near future.

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