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#2929799 - 05/29/18 12:23 AM OT: 2018 Formula One Season
zephonic Offline
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The American sports threads on this forum are fairly active, and the FIFA World Cup thread is, too, whenever the tournament is happening.
So I wonder if there are enough closet F1 geeks here to have a discussion?
I know Joe Muscara and Marino are fans, so that makes three of us. Anybody else?
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#2929811 - 05/29/18 04:30 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Markay Offline
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Having attended all but one GP in Melbourne since 1995 I'll join in.

Danny had a superb drive minus 2 gears for 50 laps to win in Monaco. How come Vettel couldn't take advantage of the Red Bull's 30kph disadvantage and grab first?

This season heart picks Ricciardo, but Red Bull doesn't have the top speed, so head says MB. A fast track next at Montreal so we will see if the red cars can match MB.

Kontroversy Corner - the Red Cars have returned to their long term form of only winning when the other cars fail.
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#2929839 - 05/29/18 06:39 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Markay]
FJR Offline
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Loc: SF Bay
I'm a motorsports fan, so F1 is a must! I miss Leigh, Dobbs, Steve, and Will, but it was initially exciting to see Ferrari (or someone other than Lewis smile ) actually winning a race!

I know he's not everyones favorite, but I think its very exciting watching Max! Crazy unpredictable sometimes, but what reflexes and talent (when it works out, that is... smile )

Its high on my list to make it to Austin sometime to take in the spectacle of actually attending a race!

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#2929843 - 05/29/18 06:46 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: FJR]
Synthaholic Offline
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I’m a Button fan.

Edit to add: I just googled to see where he sits on the leaderboard and found out he retired in 2017. Shows how much I keep up these days. I also like Lewis Hamilton.


Edited by Synthaholic (05/29/18 06:52 AM)
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#2929846 - 05/29/18 07:03 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Synthaholic]
MojoGuyPan Offline
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F1 kinda blows. Don't get me wrong, I've been into since the late 80's but the "race" this weekend in Monaco really sucked. They should just give up on the race and hand out trophies based on qualifying.

There have been a few good races this year but even those were because of the magic of the safety car or VSC.

I really wish it were better, more competitive. The only time you get something good is when you've got two great drivers on the same team like Prost v Senna. Right now the best race within a race is Ricciardo v Verstappen. Bottas and Raikonnen are nowhere close to Hamilton and Vettel. If Ferrari and Mercedes picked up some real talent for the #2 spot maybe it'd be interesting again. Hopefully Ricciardo ends up at one of the big two and makes things fun again.

They really need to cut back on the aerodynamic BS. Kill the downforce big time and go to narrower tires. Also this BS with limiting the engines and gearboxes is killing the sport too. I want to see these guys run flat out like Senna. Not run a handful of hot laps before each pit and nurse the car the rest of the race. With how they have it set up you only get to see the drivers "perform" for a little bit. It needs to be so that they are on the rivet, pushing hard the whole race.

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#2929869 - 05/29/18 08:54 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: MojoGuyPan]
Tomkeen Offline
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There's a lot of talent on the grid right now. I think Ocon and Leclerc (he really surprised me) are excellent drivers. I agree with Mojoguypan though, it has to get more competetive. Mercedes dominating the sport is getting boring, though Ferrari is really catching up. It sucks that Renault cannot seem to deliver a good engine, because Red Bull has the best chassis.

As a Dutchie, I'm Verstappen biased. Though it has to be said that he has really messed up some races this year. I hope he finds his form back soon. I can never forget him overtaking so many cars in the rain in Brazil a few years back in the Toro Rosso.

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#2929876 - 05/29/18 09:40 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: MojoGuyPan]
dje31 Offline
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Registered: 09/09/13
Posts: 195
Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
... < Snip > They should just give up on the race and hand out trophies based on qualifying < Snip > ...


Sad, but all too true, all too often. Unless there's a wreck, mechanical, and / or weather issue, pretty much the pole sitter or #2 ends up winning. Yawn...anticlimactic.

Which is the total opposite of how it should be...potentially the most exciting, challenging, competitive of most motorsports, and yet, not.


Edited by dje31 (05/29/18 09:40 AM)

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#2929883 - 05/29/18 10:11 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: dje31]
zephonic Offline
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Registered: 10/06/05
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To me there isn't much wrong with F1. If you want a level playing field with plenty of overtaking, watch a spec series. F1 is about technological excellence as much as it is about driver skill.

My main beef is with the tires and DRS. Both are designed to create artificial excitement, something F1 does not need IMO.

I'm an Alonso fan, and I'm sure you can imagine that hasn't been great for me these last ten years. But I like Hamilton and Ricciardo as well, so I still have someone to root for when Alonso isn't setting the midfield on fire.

Although I'm a Dutchie, Verstappen doesn't do much for me. He's quick for sure, but I think the hype gets the better of him. This is his fourth season in F1 and he's been making rookie mistakes every race.


Originally Posted By: Markay

Danny had a superb drive minus 2 gears for 50 laps to win in Monaco. How come Vettel couldn't take advantage of the Red Bull's 30kph disadvantage and grab first?


His gearbox didn't actually fail. The MGU-K did, which meant he lost about 160 BHP. To ameliorate this he was advised not to use gear 7 (gear 8 is never used in Monaco anyway), and shift the brake balance to the front so as not to overheat and destroy the rear brakes (the ones that recover kinetic energy). Vettel had severe graining on the left front tire, which meant he couldn't really force the issue.

Yeah, I nerd out on this stuff. If you really want to understand what goes on during a GP weekend, I highly recommend Mark Hughes' excellent race reports for Motorsport Magazine:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-monaco-grand-prix-report


Edited by zephonic (05/29/18 10:43 AM)
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#2929924 - 05/29/18 12:06 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Yeah, I'm a big fan, and while I rue losing Matchett on the U.S. broadcast, I don't miss Leigh Diffey one bit. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but I can't stand commentators who yell stuff like, "oh! Oh! Look at this! Here he goes!" instead of info about who is doing what and where. Once I noticed that about Diffey, it was downhill from there for me. I felt like he talked to hear himself talk.

Quote:
My main beef is with the tires
The best season as far as that was in 2012 when the tires would disintegrate if you drove on them too long. I don't think F1 has ever had that many winners in a season! roll

The problem in reality is that if the tire tech was allowed to be whatever, they'd last the entire race and there would be no degradation. Most of the tech that could be used in F1 is too good at this point.

I've often thought they should have to use intermediates or wets instead of slicks. There wasn't anything dumber than those grooved tires. At least if they had to run on rain tires of some sort, when it actually rained something useful might come of them.

I'm glad Ricciardo got that win. I'm a big fan of his. Meanwhile, like Menno says, Max is still making rookie mistakes. I was actually pleased that he kept his head and brought it home in Monaco. Maybe it's finally sinking in.

As far as the lack of racing on track, yeah, but I kind of see it like a chess match. It has become more about strategy than on track action. There's something to be said for that. Some poor decisions have cost some guys races.
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#2930058 - 05/30/18 05:47 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Markay Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic

Yeah, I nerd out on this stuff. If you really want to understand what goes on during a GP weekend, I highly recommend Mark Hughes' excellent race reports for Motorsport Magazine:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-monaco-grand-prix-report

Thanks for posting that link. I will visit it for updates.

Max has talent and while not yet as clinical as Danny when passing he is the most aggressive driver out there ATM. It will interesting to see how the 2019 driver contracts work out.
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#2930106 - 05/30/18 08:55 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Markay]
JohnH Offline
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Big fan, and I always enjoyed Sky when I missed US Broadcasts. Sky coverage is way better and I don't miss the old team, who were so irrelevant and way past their sell by date. Hobbs hadn't sat in an F1 car since 1974 and Matched hadn't turned a wrench on one in 20 years. Sky has team members that drove as recently as November at the Abu Dhabi test- Di Resta. Not a Diffie fan, but I was used to his voice by the end. I'm glad I slept through most of Monaco- so I could stay awake for the real race- The Indy 500. It's funny I texted a friend that then found out Alonso said almost the same thing- the real race Sunday was Indy.

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#2930133 - 05/30/18 10:33 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Markay]
KorgyPorky Offline
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Registered: 03/03/17
Posts: 70
Originally Posted By: Markay
Originally Posted By: zephonic

Yeah, I nerd out on this stuff. If you really want to understand what goes on during a GP weekend, I highly recommend Mark Hughes' excellent race reports for Motorsport Magazine:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-monaco-grand-prix-report

Thanks for posting that link. I will visit it for updates.

Max has talent and while not yet as clinical as Danny when passing he is the most aggressive driver out there ATM. It will interesting to see how the 2019 driver contracts work out.



Since Max is practically Familly, i am a huge Max fan, and so is the rest of our Nation, i think espescially in Monaco, it became apparent that the F1 has need for more Maxes... even tough Riciardo had a broken car several secconds/round slower then the rest, noboddy dared to overtale him... Max overtook 14 cars in this race...

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#2930140 - 05/30/18 10:56 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: KorgyPorky]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
even tough Riciardo had a broken car several secconds/round slower then the rest, noboddy dared to overtale him... Max overtook 14 cars in this race...


Neither of those statements is accurate.

Feel free to peruse this:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-monaco-grand-prix-report
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#2930166 - 05/30/18 01:13 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
MojoGuyPan Offline
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Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 418
Loc: Mainland Florida
Korgy,

Come on. I know you're a Max fan but he only passed a handful of cars. He was in the fastest car on the grid and started dead last. He _should_ have been passing those cars.

Ricciardo, down 160 HP / 20-30KM/H at the chicane, keeping Vettel at distance and eventually pulling away from Vettel and Hamilton was way more impressive.

I like Max's crazy-aggressive style though. Wish he would've been more crazy at Monaco. I hope these incidents don't douse his flame.

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#2930193 - 05/30/18 04:16 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: JohnH]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: JohnH
Matched hadn't turned a wrench on one in 20 years.
The big thing that Matchett continued to bring to the broadcasts was that he still knew a lot of guys in the paddock. He would often say, "I spoke to some of the engineers last night and they told me..." He also kept up with the tech as much as he could. OTOH, I remember a few years ago when they had a recent driver sub for Hobbs one weekend, and he brought lots of info about what the drivers need to do with all those controls throughout the laps. Hobbs has no idea.
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#2930204 - 05/30/18 05:44 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
Mizu Offline
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Long time fan here. I like how the '18 season is shaping up, there has been more action in the first few races than for most of the 16 or 17 season. Don't mind the Sky broadcast either, I think they have a very knowledgeable group of commentators.

For color: I think Alonso is driving the wheels off the McLaren - wish we had a wet race so the playing field was more level and he might have a shot at a podium. I wonder how long Mateschitz is going to put up with Max throwing away points. Similar with Grosjean - 0 points for Haas from his side of the Garage so far. I think there's a lot of musical chairs for the '19 season.
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#2932110 - 06/10/18 08:24 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Mizu]
zephonic Offline
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Looking forward to the race today, Canada is always an interesting event.

First Ricciardo, then Bottas, and finally Vettel all set new lap records during qualifying yesterday.

It's amazing that these PU's are faster than the V10's of yore, and consume roughly half the fuel. The engineering is impressive.

Hamilton is typically unassailable around here, but he looked out of it yesterday. Not sure what's going on with him.

The McLarens are tragically slow, and can't hide behind the Honda PU's anymore. I feel for Alonso, and wonder if he'll stick around for next season. They have no realistic chance at winning until 2021, I reckon.
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#2932167 - 06/10/18 06:17 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Markay Offline
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Only seen the results and not the race yet. Looking forward to reading Mark Hughes full report, thanks again Zephonic.

Vettel now leading the F1 Championship points. Bottas came second so Mercedes were up for it, Hamilton's state of mind seems to be his issue. Chequered flag waved one lap early, what went on there?
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#2932169 - 06/10/18 06:47 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Markay]
Dr88s Offline
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I'm not a fan of racing at all and have never attended a race but the event was local and the surrounding festivities downtown today were a real treat on a lovely day.
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#2932175 - 06/10/18 07:33 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Dr88s]
Markay Offline
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The Melbourne GP is a four day event in a Park 3klm's from the city. The 4 days are packed with support events. There is also a sound stage that books local acts for one set each and runs 7 hours a day for the 4 days.

That plus the live music in the various hospitality venues probably makes the F1 the largest non music event source of gigs each year.

Plus the Australian Army Rock Covers Band The Rising Sons, plays endlessly on their own stage for the 4 days. I always check them out as they have the latest and greatest gear including a desk with a tablet mixer. That gets updated each year and their sound guy is a great source of info on what works and the issues they had with last years mixer. They also happen to be a really tight band with excellent singers.
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#2932195 - 06/11/18 05:14 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Markay]
Losendoskeys Offline
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Love F1 and Lewis Hamilton.
Lewis was pissed over this weekend - mainly with himself.
Hopefully he will get over it and grab the lead back from Vettel.
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#2932197 - 06/11/18 05:15 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Markay]
Losendoskeys Offline
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Originally Posted By: Markay
Only seen the results and not the race yet. Looking forward to reading Mark Hughes full report, thanks again Zephonic.

Vettel now leading the F1 Championship points. Bottas came second so Mercedes were up for it, Hamilton's state of mind seems to be his issue. Chequered flag waved one lap early, what went on there?


They gave the flag to a "model" and probably gave her the wrong instructions...........or she was blonde. smile
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#2932261 - 06/11/18 10:00 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: MojoGuyPan]
EscapeRocks Offline
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I love all manner of motorsports.

F1, NHRA, NASCAR, SCCA, MotoGP, and so forth.
I used to compete in SCCA Pro SoloII and NHRA

I was fortunate to get really good seats for the F1 down in Austin a couple years ago, when my band played one of the official parties. Let's say those European drivers and the Euro women can party. Those stories later smile
Circuit of Americas is a really good track (and the excellent music venue Austin 360 is part of it.)

Regarding the Canadian race yesterday, it was not the model's fault that she waved the checkered a lap early.

Here's what director of F1 racing said

Quote:
After the race Whiting explained what had led to the error. He said: "The chequered flag was shown a lap early because of a miscommunication with the guy that they call the starter here, who starts and finishes the races.

"He thought it was the last lap, he asked race control to confirm it, they confirmed it, but they thought he was making a statement when he was asking a question.

"He told the flag waver to show it a lap early"
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#2932278 - 06/11/18 11:39 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: EscapeRocks]
zephonic Offline
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Well, the race wasn't as exciting as I expected it to be, but Vettel's win and Hamilton's 5th place means that the fight for championship is wide open once again.

Until yesterday I still believed Mercedes had the strongest over-all package, but there's really no getting around the fact that Ferrari is right up there with them, and easier on the tires to boot.

As an aside, I'm trying to get used to those halos, but they really are fugly. Wish they'd ditch those, but that doesn't seem likely.

Originally Posted By: Markay
Looking forward to reading Mark Hughes full report, thanks again Zephonic.


Yeah, his in-depth knowledge and understanding of the sport is second to none, as is his ability to explain the minutiae in plain language. The MM readers often joke that his reports are more exciting than the boring races themselves!

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-canadian-grand-prix-report
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#2932302 - 06/11/18 01:37 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Joe Muscara Offline
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The championship is turning out to be interesting again like last year. What would be great is if Ricciardo, Bottas, and/or Max get themselves deep into the fight, too.

Speaking of Max, it was nice to see that he once again is using his head while driving. I'm hoping he's finally got it figured out.

I might say the best part of the broadcast was when Brundle asked Bono (Lewis' engineer, not the singer) on the grid if Lewis ever apologizes for what he says on the radio during the race, to which Bono said, "every time! It's part of the job. It doesn't bother me." grin
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#2932306 - 06/11/18 01:46 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Quick note:

I just had to delete a post that was more appropriate for a sports bar than this forum.

Keep it civil, please.

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#2932312 - 06/11/18 02:36 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Dave Bryce]
JohnH Offline
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Sad to see Alonso in that boat anchor. This is sad sad sad. He's the master of making the wrong moves. Honda goes to Toro now the engine is doing good. He leaves Ferrari and they start winning again.

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#2932321 - 06/11/18 04:18 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Markay]
Gary75 Offline
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Ferrari are on par with Merc this year no question. Big fan of Danny Ric
Saddest part is seeing Williams with a driver like Stroll bankrolled by his father. He's chronic as a driver as just seen in his home race. I feel the Stroll family have an unhealthy grip on Williams. Kubica kicked both their arses in testing yet because he's not either bankrolled by his family or the state, he's reserve.
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#2932344 - 06/11/18 11:57 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
zephonic Offline
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In the comments section of Mark Hughes’ GP report, he actually replies to someone’s question: “If I was a betting man, I'd bet that Honda will win races next season.”

At the very least they seem to have the reliability sorted, so if they can manage to increase the power to fuel consumption ratio, who knows?
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#2932345 - 06/12/18 12:16 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Gary75 Offline
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Alonso will never win another F1 race that's for sure, he's spending his 5th season kicking around McLaren not because he wants to but because no one else wants him despite him being seen as a great driver. No going backbtonFerrari and Merc don't want the issues McLaren had in 2007. I'm convinced he'll call it a day this season and race in America.
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#2932422 - 06/12/18 10:34 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
JohnH Offline
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The writing is on the wall. Alonso to Indy Car? It's been 25 years since Mansell came here- that was huge and this will be too. That would be awesome. McLaren are in the stages of looking into this, so for sure he's going to be the driver if they do it.

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#2932481 - 06/12/18 06:17 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: JohnH]
marino Offline
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I'm an oldtime fan, and I'm following all the races I can follow despite them being utterly boring, more and more as the years pass. Who cares if the cars can run faster, when they can't overtake?! Hopefully, the simplification of aerodynamics proposed for the next years by Liberty Media will bring a bit more show for the fans.

It's almost too obvious to say that I'm a Ferrari fan, since I'm Italian - fact is, my family comes from the same area where Maranello is... the motorsport heart of Italy. It was Ferrari and racing since I was a child. Perhaps not coincidentally, this is also close to the area where the Italian electronic instruments industries (Siel, Elka, Crumar, FBT, etc.) used to be. Sadly, they are almost entirely gone by now; just Fatar/Studiologic and a very few others are still working.

I was really happy to hear that Seb was going to join Ferrari, as I had always enjoyed his driving. Perhaps he's a bit "too respectful" in this world of bloodthirsty beasts, but his sheer talent is impressive. In this era, btw, very few drivers still have that killer instinct that you could find in Villeneuve, Senna, Schumacher etc. Alonso has it perhaps, and sometimes Hamilton. Max has some of it, but I just can't stand his childish arrogance, and his propension to attack no matter what, often ruining other drivers' races. A great talent, to be sure, but...

About Alonso, I can only agree with this:

Originally Posted By: JohnH
Sad to see Alonso in that boat anchor. This is sad sad sad. He's the master of making the wrong moves. Honda goes to Toro now the engine is doing good. He leaves Ferrari and they start winning again.

It also has to be said that Alonso is not a team man. When things go wrong, he tends to detach himself from his team, and blame them for the problems. I mean, even if he was right every time, that's not the right way to build a team spirit, and mutual confidence, which is so necessary when you are the main point of reference of such a large organization.

Seb is the opposite of this. He's always with the team, despite the fact that they still haven't given him a car good enough to beat Mercedes. It took five years for Schumi in the early 2000s... and now Seb is in his fourth year with them....... wink

Speaking of Ferrari: I was really doubtful when Marchionne became president. He knew about road cars, not racing. And when, a couple of years ago, he fired their chief motorist in a moment of crisis, *without replacing him*, I thought, "this man is nuts"... he was talking about a collaborative, "horizontal" structure. And most fans were convinced that Ferrari would never return to victory under Marchionne's guidance.

Well, at the start of the 2017 season, everyone could see that he was right. Mattia Binotto and his team of engineers have designed a superior engine, and Vettel is on the fight for the title again. I keep my finger crossed - although I know that Mercedes is still one step ahead. The victory in Canada was made easier by the fact that Ferrari had the new engines, while Merceds, with the old one, had to limit power to reduce the risk of breakup.

Enough for today... smile

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#2932504 - 06/12/18 11:51 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Theo Verelst Offline
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Amoung you die-hard and even (previously) active racing guys I got to say I didn't follow that many races. I enjoyed some of the e events because that's a new technical challenge. Not as incredibly competitive as those 1000(?) horsepower F1 horses, but still the electric speed is incredible.

I had to read up on what happened after the heavy powered engines of long ago, the additions of electric drive, turbo and regeneration abilities, the 100 liters fuel (the environment!) and the rules against active suspension. As a long time (though not at the moment) Audi 100 driver I find it interesting how those hydraulics can keep the cars safe in all the manoeuvres they make, including the powerful changes of course you can see well in camera shots from the front during strong direction changes, looks vicious.

T

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#2932507 - 06/13/18 12:27 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Theo Verelst]
Gary75 Offline
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It's all gearing up to turn fully electric unfortunately, certainly down to V4 at some point. I'm pleased I was just old enough to follow from late 80's with the V10/12 cars up to mid 2000's. Never liked the sound of V8's

Formula E has now got top speeds of 180mph without car change during a race. Anybody getting into F1 now have missed the boat if they want the sound.
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#2932508 - 06/13/18 02:03 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
Markay Offline
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As someone who attends 1 GP each year I have mixed feelings about the sound. Up until 2016 earplugs were mandatory, 2016 the sound was atrocious, as aurally exciting as a MB C200 Kompressor going flat out. (That is what my 97 year old mother in law drives).

Better in 2017 and better again in 2018 but you don't need earplugs so a happy compromise. The old Minardi 2 seater V10 still takes corporates for a ride from 7am on Thursday through to Saturday mornings and although I stay 2 klms from the track it serves as my alarm clock.

Fortunately the Aussie Super Car V8's are the main support race and the thunderous noise and snap, crackle, pop on deceleration keeps us all happy and aurally excited for 4 days. The Porsches and GTP's in other support races don't come close.
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#2932512 - 06/13/18 03:21 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Markay]
Theo Verelst Offline
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The only time I've been on an actual track's environment was for a anti-skid course, so I'm wondering: are those e-cars producing closer to silence or closer to an incredible whining noise?

T

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#2932527 - 06/13/18 05:45 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Theo Verelst]
Joe Muscara Offline
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I like Formula E, though a lot of it is about potential. The races and tracks are too short, but that will change with time. I'm looking forward to what the races are like next year without that crazy car change. Will they make them have a mandatory stop for tires?

The tracks are nutty sometimes, but I get that they want to bring the races to the cities. OTOH, I love the classic road courses.
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#2932578 - 06/13/18 10:13 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
marino Offline
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I like Formula E too (we have had the first Rome Eprix recently), but I think they should get rid of that FanBoost thing. It's stupid and ridiculous, and it takes away much of the sporting value.

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#2932609 - 06/13/18 01:03 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino
I like Formula E too (we have had the first Rome Eprix recently), but I think they should get rid of that FanBoost thing. It's stupid and ridiculous, and it takes away much of the sporting value.
I hear ya. It's right up there with the DRS in F1. And don't F1 cars have another boost or did that go away recently? I haven't heard it mentioned lately. I don't think racing series should have "tricks" to make passes, they should have cars and drivers and tracks that make is possible (but not necessarily easy).
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#2932633 - 06/13/18 03:50 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
marino Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: marino
I like Formula E too (we have had the first Rome Eprix recently), but I think they should get rid of that FanBoost thing. It's stupid and ridiculous, and it takes away much of the sporting value.
I hear ya. It's right up there with the DRS in F1. And don't F1 cars have another boost or did that go away recently? I haven't heard it mentioned lately. I don't think racing series should have "tricks" to make passes, they should have cars and drivers and tracks that make is possible (but not necessarily easy).

Yeah, DRS is sporting nonsense. I actually understand that one better, though, as it was a kind of desperate attempt to have more on-track overtaking. It worked for a while - then last year they made the tyres and the cars themselves much wider, so the overtaking was gone again!
Thinking about it, many of the rule changes during the last 25 years have been attempts to make F1 races less boring. From refueling and tyre change, to having to keep the same setup from Q3 to race start... to me, they look like attempts to shuffle the cards a bit and make the results less predictable. Of course, all this makes a F1 race look more like a gamble, and detracts a lot from the sheer sporting merits of drivers and teams.

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#2932742 - 06/14/18 10:03 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino
Thinking about it, many of the rule changes during the last 25 years have been attempts to make F1 races less boring. From refueling and tyre change, to having to keep the same setup from Q3 to race start... to me, they look like attempts to shuffle the cards a bit and make the results less predictable. Of course, all this makes a F1 race look more like a gamble, and detracts a lot from the sheer sporting merits of drivers and teams.
I agree, though the one thing I'd keep is the bit where the car you qualify with has to be the same as the car you start the race with. Using separate tech for qually vs. the race was just silly.
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#2932756 - 06/14/18 10:40 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: marino
I like Formula E too (we have had the first Rome Eprix recently), but I think they should get rid of that FanBoost thing. It's stupid and ridiculous, and it takes away much of the sporting value.


I hear ya. It's right up there with the DRS in F1. And don't F1 cars have another boost or did that go away recently? I haven't heard it mentioned lately. I don't think racing series should have "tricks" to make passes, they should have cars and drivers and tracks that make is possible (but not necessarily easy).


Before the hybrid era (2014-now), they outfitted the V8's with KERS (kinetic energy recovery system) which harvested electricity from the brakes. It could deploy that energy for about 6 secs per lap, and the boost was about 60 kW (80bhp).

Since 2014, KERS is now called ERS (energy recovery system) and an integral part of the power unit. It's good for around 120 kW (160bhp) and active at all times. It now consists of two parts, the MGU-K (which recovers kinetic energy from braking), and the MGU-H (which recovers energy from residual engine heat). The latter is the most complex part of the power unit, and it will most likely disappear in 2021, as the new regulations will attempt to reduce cost and level the playing field.

DRS is BS. It needs to go, and the tires need a rethink, too. I'm okay with different compounds for different strategies, but there should be at least one tire that can go a full race distance, and mandatory stops should be abolished.

I have always thought that the Brabham BT46B fan car was the perfect solution for F1's aerodynamic problems. The cars get all the downforce they need, and there's less "dirty" air behind the car, which should facilitate slipstreaming and overtaking.

And finally, all the complaints about the lack of noise baffle me, but not as much as the decision to bring the noise back! I thought the 2014 cars sounded awesome, a low, menacing growl, rather than the shrieking of the atmospheric V8 era. I thought it was great that people didn't need ear plugs at the track anymore.




Edited by zephonic (06/14/18 11:10 AM)
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#2932784 - 06/14/18 01:14 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Gary75 Offline
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I don't know what it is, but it feels like the v12 are really guttural, and I seem to connect with it more than a turbo whistle with v6. I'm sure there's a scientific reason why many prefer the sound of 10/12 cylinders despite them being slower than the hybrid era.

Here's a comparison

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#2932958 - 06/15/18 12:40 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
zephonic Offline
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It is ever more likely that RBR will use Honda power for 2019 and 2020. https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/mph-hot-honda-sets-red-bull-deal

If this really happens and RBR-Honda ends up being competitive, there's going to be much gnashing of teeth in Woking.

Alonso racked up some seriously bad karma. I feel for the guy.
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#2933066 - 06/16/18 07:49 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Gary75 Offline
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Yeah, he's always been a couple of years out of phase with competitiveness. Hindsight is a wonderful thing as they say. At least he managed to bag 2 WDC before the rot set in. It's too late now to do anything, he's essentially boxed himself into a corner and there's a lot of young talent without the baggage.
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#2933077 - 06/16/18 09:11 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
Markay Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gary75
I don't know what it is, but it feels like the v12 are really guttural, and I seem to connect with it more than a turbo whistle with v6. I'm sure there's a scientific reason why many prefer the sound of 10/12 cylinders despite them being slower than the hybrid era.

Here's a comparison






Time flies when you are having fun, and I will correct my earlier comment mentioning 2016 as the start of the silent era when it was 2014 as shown in the vid. I saw that lap from my seat in the Brabham stand on the inside of turn 1.

But they sound a lot better now than in 2014. And there is no audio system that can replicate the deafening sound of the earlier cars. The only thing louder I have heard is the RAAF F/A 18 Super Hornet that does a low level fly by and aerobatics at the Melbourne GP.
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#2933118 - 06/16/18 11:44 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Markay]
Joe Muscara Offline
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OTOH, Alonso is doing quite well at Le Mans right now. Not all his moves are bad. wink
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#2933140 - 06/16/18 01:08 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
FJR Offline
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Those V12 cars look like a handful! I would imagine the driver was pretty "wrung-out" after a full race in those! smile

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#2933256 - 06/17/18 10:26 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: FJR]
marino Offline
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So Fernando won the Le Mans 24. Not by himself, for sure - that's WEC after all grin - but I'm very glad to see this greatly talented driver back on the podium after so many years. Probably, a nice injection of positivity for his spirit, after all the frustrations and bad choices in F1. Since the chances of winning another F1 title seem to be very dim, I wish him years of victories and success in WEC and Indycar, the Triple Crown, etc. smile Despite his fame of not being easy to deal with, he remains one of the greatest drivers of the last 25 years.

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#2933257 - 06/17/18 10:29 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino
So Fernando won the Le Mans 24. Not by himself, for sure - that's WEC after all grin - but I'm very glad to see this greatly talented driver back on the podium after so many years. Probably, a nice injection of positivity for his spirit, after all the frustrations and bad choices in F1. Since the chances of winning another F1 title seem to be very dim, I wish him years of victories and success in WEC and Indycar, the Triple Crown, etc. smile Despite his fame of not being easy to deal with, he remains one of the greatest drivers of the last 25 years.
He won the 24 Hours of Spa as well, and there's a decent chance he'll be part of the winning team of the 2018-2019 WEC title if I heard it right.

It would be cool to see him win Indy as well.
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#2933260 - 06/17/18 10:47 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
marino Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
He won the 24 Hours of Spa as well
The 6 hours of Spa, surely? grin wink

Quote:
there's a decent chance he'll be part of the winning team of the 2018-2019 WEC title if I heard it right.
He will contest both WEC and F1 this year, but I don't know about conflicting dates.

Quote:
It would be cool to see him win Indy as well.
He already had excellent chances to win last year... before the Honda engine abandoned him.

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#2933264 - 06/17/18 12:26 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
Gary75 Offline
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Alonso was always going to win LeMans, his and the the other Toyota car were the only hybrid entries with far more speed. It was between the Toyota cars and it creates a lot of interest having Alonso win. It's a hollow win. He did well at Indy before his engine went but this is BS. Graham Hill had to graft for his triple crown and I hope he remains the only man to achieve it for a lot longer.
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#2933349 - Yesterday at 05:29 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gary75
It's a hollow win.
Completing 24 hours at Le Mans isn't easy. Toyota will tell you that. While it would have been better if it were a year when there were more cars in the class with Toyota, it's still a win.

Originally Posted By: marino
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
He won the 24 Hours of Spa as well
The 6 hours of Spa, surely? grin wink
Oops, you're right. That's a different event altogether.
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#2933561 - Today at 07:56 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
Theo Verelst Offline
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I recall a strange similarity in atmosphere driving through Le Mans that I pick up from seeing a piece the race on TV (in the evening).

Seems after the Audi etrons have left, toyota is introducing electrics.

T

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#2933615 - Today at 10:34 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Theo Verelst]
zephonic Offline
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So, it's official! RedBullRacing and Honda are partnering up next season.

If they are competitive, there's going to be a warehouse full of sour grapes over at McLaren, even though they didn't have much of a choice.

I think the McLaren/Honda saga perfectly illustrates how hubris can ruin great potential:
1) If Ron Dennis hadn't insisted Honda come in a year earlier than they wanted or were ready for, McLaren would have coasted through 2015 with a competitive Mercedes PU. Honda would have had enough time to adequately prepare for 2016.
2) If McLaren's technical team hadn't insisted on the size-zero concept, which presented an insurmountable challenge for the Honda engineers, the PU could have been competitive sooner.

Still, the split was necessary, if only for McLaren to acknowledge their chassis isn't one of the best on the grid, and for Honda to develop outside the limelight.

But man, Alonso's career is a life lesson about karma, f--k.
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#2933624 - Today at 10:59 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
So, it's official! RedBullRacing and Honda are partnering up next season.
Wow.

From the article on formula1.com:

"Red Bull have grown frustrated with current power unit suppliers Renault"

That's a bit of an understatement, isn't it? In fact, this season they've been less trouble than previous ones AFAIK, but they've not been happy with Renault for a while.
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#2933682 - Today at 03:07 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
"Red Bull have grown frustrated with current power unit suppliers Renault"

That's a bit of an understatement, isn't it? In fact, this season they've been less trouble than previous ones AFAIK, but they've not been happy with Renault for a while.


It was mostly in 2015. When the new hybrid era started in 2014, Renault was pretty far behind Mercedes. The Merc was so superior that even a backmarker team like Williams scored points and podiums regularly. Nonetheless, Renault was still better than Ferrari, who really were nowhere, which was one of the reasons Alonso asked to be released. RBR did win a few GP's when Mercedes had a failure or shot themselves in the foot.

Come 2015, Ferrari took a huge step forward, but Mercedes remained superior. However, Renault figured they needed a different approach and came up with an altered design, which totally backfired (pun not intended) and turned out to be worse than the 2014 PU.
RBR instantly forgot they won four double championships with a Renault engine and publicly derided them. However, neither Mercedes nor Ferrari were willing to supply them so in the end they were forced to stick it out, although they got the nonsensical TAG-Heuer designation out of it.

Presumably, this falling out also prompted Renault to re-enter F1 with a works team.

By comparison, McLaren's public comments on the Honda PU last year are positively sanguine. If RBR-Honda are competitive right away everything will be great. But with RBR's history of airing dirty laundry in public, I don't know what will happen if they are off the pace again.



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#2933687 - Today at 04:18 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino

Speaking of Ferrari: I was really doubtful when Marchionne became president. He knew about road cars, not racing. And when, a couple of years ago, he fired their chief motorist in a moment of crisis, *without replacing him*, I thought, "this man is nuts"... he was talking about a collaborative, "horizontal" structure. And most fans were convinced that Ferrari would never return to victory under Marchionne's guidance.

Well, at the start of the 2017 season, everyone could see that he was right. Mattia Binotto and his team of engineers have designed a superior engine, and Vettel is on the fight for the title again.


Indeed. I thought Marchionne was all hubris and no clue about F1. But he has proven me wrong, Ferrari is in the best shape it has been in since Todt's departure.
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