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#2932422 - 06/12/18 10:34 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
JohnH Offline
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The writing is on the wall. Alonso to Indy Car? It's been 25 years since Mansell came here- that was huge and this will be too. That would be awesome. McLaren are in the stages of looking into this, so for sure he's going to be the driver if they do it.

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#2932481 - 06/12/18 06:17 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: JohnH]
marino Offline
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I'm an oldtime fan, and I'm following all the races I can follow despite them being utterly boring, more and more as the years pass. Who cares if the cars can run faster, when they can't overtake?! Hopefully, the simplification of aerodynamics proposed for the next years by Liberty Media will bring a bit more show for the fans.

It's almost too obvious to say that I'm a Ferrari fan, since I'm Italian - fact is, my family comes from the same area where Maranello is... the motorsport heart of Italy. It was Ferrari and racing since I was a child. Perhaps not coincidentally, this is also close to the area where the Italian electronic instruments industries (Siel, Elka, Crumar, FBT, etc.) used to be. Sadly, they are almost entirely gone by now; just Fatar/Studiologic and a very few others are still working.

I was really happy to hear that Seb was going to join Ferrari, as I had always enjoyed his driving. Perhaps he's a bit "too respectful" in this world of bloodthirsty beasts, but his sheer talent is impressive. In this era, btw, very few drivers still have that killer instinct that you could find in Villeneuve, Senna, Schumacher etc. Alonso has it perhaps, and sometimes Hamilton. Max has some of it, but I just can't stand his childish arrogance, and his propension to attack no matter what, often ruining other drivers' races. A great talent, to be sure, but...

About Alonso, I can only agree with this:

Originally Posted By: JohnH
Sad to see Alonso in that boat anchor. This is sad sad sad. He's the master of making the wrong moves. Honda goes to Toro now the engine is doing good. He leaves Ferrari and they start winning again.

It also has to be said that Alonso is not a team man. When things go wrong, he tends to detach himself from his team, and blame them for the problems. I mean, even if he was right every time, that's not the right way to build a team spirit, and mutual confidence, which is so necessary when you are the main point of reference of such a large organization.

Seb is the opposite of this. He's always with the team, despite the fact that they still haven't given him a car good enough to beat Mercedes. It took five years for Schumi in the early 2000s... and now Seb is in his fourth year with them....... wink

Speaking of Ferrari: I was really doubtful when Marchionne became president. He knew about road cars, not racing. And when, a couple of years ago, he fired their chief motorist in a moment of crisis, *without replacing him*, I thought, "this man is nuts"... he was talking about a collaborative, "horizontal" structure. And most fans were convinced that Ferrari would never return to victory under Marchionne's guidance.

Well, at the start of the 2017 season, everyone could see that he was right. Mattia Binotto and his team of engineers have designed a superior engine, and Vettel is on the fight for the title again. I keep my finger crossed - although I know that Mercedes is still one step ahead. The victory in Canada was made easier by the fact that Ferrari had the new engines, while Merceds, with the old one, had to limit power to reduce the risk of breakup.

Enough for today... smile

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#2932504 - 06/12/18 11:51 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Theo Verelst Offline
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Amoung you die-hard and even (previously) active racing guys I got to say I didn't follow that many races. I enjoyed some of the e events because that's a new technical challenge. Not as incredibly competitive as those 1000(?) horsepower F1 horses, but still the electric speed is incredible.

I had to read up on what happened after the heavy powered engines of long ago, the additions of electric drive, turbo and regeneration abilities, the 100 liters fuel (the environment!) and the rules against active suspension. As a long time (though not at the moment) Audi 100 driver I find it interesting how those hydraulics can keep the cars safe in all the manoeuvres they make, including the powerful changes of course you can see well in camera shots from the front during strong direction changes, looks vicious.

T

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#2932507 - 06/13/18 12:27 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Theo Verelst]
Gary75 Offline
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It's all gearing up to turn fully electric unfortunately, certainly down to V4 at some point. I'm pleased I was just old enough to follow from late 80's with the V10/12 cars up to mid 2000's. Never liked the sound of V8's

Formula E has now got top speeds of 180mph without car change during a race. Anybody getting into F1 now have missed the boat if they want the sound.
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#2932508 - 06/13/18 02:03 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
Markay Offline
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As someone who attends 1 GP each year I have mixed feelings about the sound. Up until 2016 earplugs were mandatory, 2016 the sound was atrocious, as aurally exciting as a MB C200 Kompressor going flat out. (That is what my 97 year old mother in law drives).

Better in 2017 and better again in 2018 but you don't need earplugs so a happy compromise. The old Minardi 2 seater V10 still takes corporates for a ride from 7am on Thursday through to Saturday mornings and although I stay 2 klms from the track it serves as my alarm clock.

Fortunately the Aussie Super Car V8's are the main support race and the thunderous noise and snap, crackle, pop on deceleration keeps us all happy and aurally excited for 4 days. The Porsches and GTP's in other support races don't come close.
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#2932512 - 06/13/18 03:21 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Markay]
Theo Verelst Offline
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The only time I've been on an actual track's environment was for a anti-skid course, so I'm wondering: are those e-cars producing closer to silence or closer to an incredible whining noise?

T

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#2932527 - 06/13/18 05:45 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Theo Verelst]
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I like Formula E, though a lot of it is about potential. The races and tracks are too short, but that will change with time. I'm looking forward to what the races are like next year without that crazy car change. Will they make them have a mandatory stop for tires?

The tracks are nutty sometimes, but I get that they want to bring the races to the cities. OTOH, I love the classic road courses.
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#2932578 - 06/13/18 10:13 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
marino Offline
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I like Formula E too (we have had the first Rome Eprix recently), but I think they should get rid of that FanBoost thing. It's stupid and ridiculous, and it takes away much of the sporting value.

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#2932609 - 06/13/18 01:03 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Joe Muscara Online   content
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Originally Posted By: marino
I like Formula E too (we have had the first Rome Eprix recently), but I think they should get rid of that FanBoost thing. It's stupid and ridiculous, and it takes away much of the sporting value.
I hear ya. It's right up there with the DRS in F1. And don't F1 cars have another boost or did that go away recently? I haven't heard it mentioned lately. I don't think racing series should have "tricks" to make passes, they should have cars and drivers and tracks that make is possible (but not necessarily easy).
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#2932633 - 06/13/18 03:50 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
marino Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: marino
I like Formula E too (we have had the first Rome Eprix recently), but I think they should get rid of that FanBoost thing. It's stupid and ridiculous, and it takes away much of the sporting value.
I hear ya. It's right up there with the DRS in F1. And don't F1 cars have another boost or did that go away recently? I haven't heard it mentioned lately. I don't think racing series should have "tricks" to make passes, they should have cars and drivers and tracks that make is possible (but not necessarily easy).

Yeah, DRS is sporting nonsense. I actually understand that one better, though, as it was a kind of desperate attempt to have more on-track overtaking. It worked for a while - then last year they made the tyres and the cars themselves much wider, so the overtaking was gone again!
Thinking about it, many of the rule changes during the last 25 years have been attempts to make F1 races less boring. From refueling and tyre change, to having to keep the same setup from Q3 to race start... to me, they look like attempts to shuffle the cards a bit and make the results less predictable. Of course, all this makes a F1 race look more like a gamble, and detracts a lot from the sheer sporting merits of drivers and teams.

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#2932742 - 06/14/18 10:03 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Joe Muscara Online   content
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Originally Posted By: marino
Thinking about it, many of the rule changes during the last 25 years have been attempts to make F1 races less boring. From refueling and tyre change, to having to keep the same setup from Q3 to race start... to me, they look like attempts to shuffle the cards a bit and make the results less predictable. Of course, all this makes a F1 race look more like a gamble, and detracts a lot from the sheer sporting merits of drivers and teams.
I agree, though the one thing I'd keep is the bit where the car you qualify with has to be the same as the car you start the race with. Using separate tech for qually vs. the race was just silly.
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#2932756 - 06/14/18 10:40 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: marino
I like Formula E too (we have had the first Rome Eprix recently), but I think they should get rid of that FanBoost thing. It's stupid and ridiculous, and it takes away much of the sporting value.


I hear ya. It's right up there with the DRS in F1. And don't F1 cars have another boost or did that go away recently? I haven't heard it mentioned lately. I don't think racing series should have "tricks" to make passes, they should have cars and drivers and tracks that make is possible (but not necessarily easy).


Before the hybrid era (2014-now), they outfitted the V8's with KERS (kinetic energy recovery system) which harvested electricity from the brakes. It could deploy that energy for about 6 secs per lap, and the boost was about 60 kW (80bhp).

Since 2014, KERS is now called ERS (energy recovery system) and an integral part of the power unit. It's good for around 120 kW (160bhp) and active at all times. It now consists of two parts, the MGU-K (which recovers kinetic energy from braking), and the MGU-H (which recovers energy from residual engine heat). The latter is the most complex part of the power unit, and it will most likely disappear in 2021, as the new regulations will attempt to reduce cost and level the playing field.

DRS is BS. It needs to go, and the tires need a rethink, too. I'm okay with different compounds for different strategies, but there should be at least one tire that can go a full race distance, and mandatory stops should be abolished.

I have always thought that the Brabham BT46B fan car was the perfect solution for F1's aerodynamic problems. The cars get all the downforce they need, and there's less "dirty" air behind the car, which should facilitate slipstreaming and overtaking.

And finally, all the complaints about the lack of noise baffle me, but not as much as the decision to bring the noise back! I thought the 2014 cars sounded awesome, a low, menacing growl, rather than the shrieking of the atmospheric V8 era. I thought it was great that people didn't need ear plugs at the track anymore.




Edited by zephonic (06/14/18 11:10 AM)
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#2932784 - 06/14/18 01:14 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Gary75 Offline
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I don't know what it is, but it feels like the v12 are really guttural, and I seem to connect with it more than a turbo whistle with v6. I'm sure there's a scientific reason why many prefer the sound of 10/12 cylinders despite them being slower than the hybrid era.

Here's a comparison

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#2932958 - 06/15/18 12:40 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
zephonic Offline
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It is ever more likely that RBR will use Honda power for 2019 and 2020. https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/mph-hot-honda-sets-red-bull-deal

If this really happens and RBR-Honda ends up being competitive, there's going to be much gnashing of teeth in Woking.

Alonso racked up some seriously bad karma. I feel for the guy.
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#2933066 - 06/16/18 07:49 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Gary75 Offline
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Yeah, he's always been a couple of years out of phase with competitiveness. Hindsight is a wonderful thing as they say. At least he managed to bag 2 WDC before the rot set in. It's too late now to do anything, he's essentially boxed himself into a corner and there's a lot of young talent without the baggage.
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#2933077 - 06/16/18 09:11 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Gary75]
Markay Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gary75
I don't know what it is, but it feels like the v12 are really guttural, and I seem to connect with it more than a turbo whistle with v6. I'm sure there's a scientific reason why many prefer the sound of 10/12 cylinders despite them being slower than the hybrid era.

Here's a comparison






Time flies when you are having fun, and I will correct my earlier comment mentioning 2016 as the start of the silent era when it was 2014 as shown in the vid. I saw that lap from my seat in the Brabham stand on the inside of turn 1.

But they sound a lot better now than in 2014. And there is no audio system that can replicate the deafening sound of the earlier cars. The only thing louder I have heard is the RAAF F/A 18 Super Hornet that does a low level fly by and aerobatics at the Melbourne GP.
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#2933118 - 06/16/18 11:44 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Markay]
Joe Muscara Online   content
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OTOH, Alonso is doing quite well at Le Mans right now. Not all his moves are bad. wink
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#2933140 - 06/16/18 01:08 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
FJR Online   content
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Those V12 cars look like a handful! I would imagine the driver was pretty "wrung-out" after a full race in those! smile

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#2933256 - 06/17/18 10:26 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: FJR]
marino Offline
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So Fernando won the Le Mans 24. Not by himself, for sure - that's WEC after all grin - but I'm very glad to see this greatly talented driver back on the podium after so many years. Probably, a nice injection of positivity for his spirit, after all the frustrations and bad choices in F1. Since the chances of winning another F1 title seem to be very dim, I wish him years of victories and success in WEC and Indycar, the Triple Crown, etc. smile Despite his fame of not being easy to deal with, he remains one of the greatest drivers of the last 25 years.

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#2933257 - 06/17/18 10:29 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Joe Muscara Online   content
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Originally Posted By: marino
So Fernando won the Le Mans 24. Not by himself, for sure - that's WEC after all grin - but I'm very glad to see this greatly talented driver back on the podium after so many years. Probably, a nice injection of positivity for his spirit, after all the frustrations and bad choices in F1. Since the chances of winning another F1 title seem to be very dim, I wish him years of victories and success in WEC and Indycar, the Triple Crown, etc. smile Despite his fame of not being easy to deal with, he remains one of the greatest drivers of the last 25 years.
He won the 24 Hours of Spa as well, and there's a decent chance he'll be part of the winning team of the 2018-2019 WEC title if I heard it right.

It would be cool to see him win Indy as well.
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#2933260 - 06/17/18 10:47 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
marino Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
He won the 24 Hours of Spa as well
The 6 hours of Spa, surely? grin wink

Quote:
there's a decent chance he'll be part of the winning team of the 2018-2019 WEC title if I heard it right.
He will contest both WEC and F1 this year, but I don't know about conflicting dates.

Quote:
It would be cool to see him win Indy as well.
He already had excellent chances to win last year... before the Honda engine abandoned him.

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#2933264 - 06/17/18 12:26 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
Gary75 Offline
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Alonso was always going to win LeMans, his and the the other Toyota car were the only hybrid entries with far more speed. It was between the Toyota cars and it creates a lot of interest having Alonso win. It's a hollow win. He did well at Indy before his engine went but this is BS. Graham Hill had to graft for his triple crown and I hope he remains the only man to achieve it for a lot longer.
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#2933349 - 06/18/18 05:29 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
Joe Muscara Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Gary75
It's a hollow win.
Completing 24 hours at Le Mans isn't easy. Toyota will tell you that. While it would have been better if it were a year when there were more cars in the class with Toyota, it's still a win.

Originally Posted By: marino
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
He won the 24 Hours of Spa as well
The 6 hours of Spa, surely? grin wink
Oops, you're right. That's a different event altogether.
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#2933561 - 06/19/18 07:56 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
Theo Verelst Offline
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I recall a strange similarity in atmosphere driving through Le Mans that I pick up from seeing a piece the race on TV (in the evening).

Seems after the Audi etrons have left, toyota is introducing electrics.

T

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#2933615 - 06/19/18 10:34 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Theo Verelst]
zephonic Offline
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So, it's official! RedBullRacing and Honda are partnering up next season.

If they are competitive, there's going to be a warehouse full of sour grapes over at McLaren, even though they didn't have much of a choice.

I think the McLaren/Honda saga perfectly illustrates how hubris can ruin great potential:
1) If Ron Dennis hadn't insisted Honda come in a year earlier than they wanted or were ready for, McLaren would have coasted through 2015 with a competitive Mercedes PU. Honda would have had enough time to adequately prepare for 2016.
2) If McLaren's technical team hadn't insisted on the size-zero concept, which presented an insurmountable challenge for the Honda engineers, the PU could have been competitive sooner.

Still, the split was necessary, if only for McLaren to acknowledge their chassis isn't one of the best on the grid, and for Honda to develop outside the limelight.

But man, Alonso's career is a life lesson about karma, f--k.
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#2933624 - 06/19/18 10:59 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Joe Muscara Online   content
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
So, it's official! RedBullRacing and Honda are partnering up next season.
Wow.

From the article on formula1.com:

"Red Bull have grown frustrated with current power unit suppliers Renault"

That's a bit of an understatement, isn't it? In fact, this season they've been less trouble than previous ones AFAIK, but they've not been happy with Renault for a while.
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#2933682 - 06/19/18 03:07 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
"Red Bull have grown frustrated with current power unit suppliers Renault"

That's a bit of an understatement, isn't it? In fact, this season they've been less trouble than previous ones AFAIK, but they've not been happy with Renault for a while.


It was mostly in 2015. When the new hybrid era started in 2014, Renault was pretty far behind Mercedes. The Merc was so superior that even a backmarker team like Williams scored points and podiums regularly. Nonetheless, Renault was still better than Ferrari, who really were nowhere, which was one of the reasons Alonso asked to be released. RBR did win a few GP's when Mercedes had a failure or shot themselves in the foot.

Come 2015, Ferrari took a huge step forward, but Mercedes remained superior. However, Renault figured they needed a different approach and came up with an altered design, which totally backfired (pun not intended) and turned out to be worse than the 2014 PU.
RBR instantly forgot they won four double championships with a Renault engine and publicly derided them. However, neither Mercedes nor Ferrari were willing to supply them so in the end they were forced to stick it out, although they got the nonsensical TAG-Heuer designation out of it.

Presumably, this falling out also prompted Renault to re-enter F1 with a works team.

By comparison, McLaren's public comments on the Honda PU last year are positively sanguine. If RBR-Honda are competitive right away everything will be great. But with RBR's history of airing dirty laundry in public, I don't know what will happen if they are off the pace again.



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#2933687 - 06/19/18 04:18 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: marino]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: marino

Speaking of Ferrari: I was really doubtful when Marchionne became president. He knew about road cars, not racing. And when, a couple of years ago, he fired their chief motorist in a moment of crisis, *without replacing him*, I thought, "this man is nuts"... he was talking about a collaborative, "horizontal" structure. And most fans were convinced that Ferrari would never return to victory under Marchionne's guidance.

Well, at the start of the 2017 season, everyone could see that he was right. Mattia Binotto and his team of engineers have designed a superior engine, and Vettel is on the fight for the title again.


Indeed. I thought Marchionne was all hubris and no clue about F1. But he has proven me wrong, Ferrari is in the best shape it has been in since Todt's departure.
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#2934170 - 06/23/18 04:17 AM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: zephonic]
Joe Muscara Online   content
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OMFG - That paint job on Paul Ricard Circuit is just horrendous. It makes the place look absolutely silly, and is nearly headache-inducing.
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#2934251 - 06/23/18 01:07 PM Re: OT: 2018 Formula One Season [Re: Joe Muscara]
zephonic Offline
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How the mighty have fallen; McLaren and Williams starting last...


...and how did Grosjean manage to bin that?!?
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