Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Topic Options
#2929712 - 05/28/18 11:37 AM Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5143
Loc: Los Angeles
Howdy,
As I mentioned in another thread, I want to downsize my amp collection, since I really only do the FRFR thing with PA speakers for gigs anymore. And I could use the space, both physically & psychologically. The one amp I think I should keep is an early 70s silver face Deluxe Reverb. This amp sounds great but currently has a cheap replacement Carvin speaker in it. To return it to its fullest capability what speaker should I throw in there, given (A) I only want an amp for clean tone, & (B) this will be the only amp left in the house?
Thx for any & all insights, my friends.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
GP Island
#2929736 - 05/28/18 03:11 PM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: Scott Fraser]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11977
Loc: St. Louis, MO
_________________________
Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

Top
#2929744 - 05/28/18 05:17 PM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: J. Dan]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6645
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Got no specific brand suggestion but a few ideas you might consider, if y've not had them already.
[1]
Considering suggestions from highly stylized or genre specialist players might be filtered by their specialty.
[2]
While there are distinctions between brands, sizes, etc, the enclosure [even the room, particularly if consistently used in the same place(s)] can affect sound as well, as you know.
No matter what suggestions you consider, it may be worth using yer local retailer connections to test drive some gear...maybe a few amps loaded w/diff spkrs or even some loose spkrs that you could place in some cabs of diff sizes or construction to audit any diffs, not forgetting whatever settings you tend to use.
[3]
You might even chk out some spkr emulation programs. idk

_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2929761 - 05/28/18 07:35 PM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: d]
CEB Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 12835
There are several great speakers.

Playing clean. I like the EVM 12L. The amp will get louder because the speaker is efficient. Downsides include... It will be a tight fit. Because of the weight you will probably want to replace the baffle with a birch plywood baffle. And like I said Its HEAVY.

Boogie has the Filmore 75. It adds a nice bottom end to an open back amp. It is voiced to sound like an old Altec. The Mesa C90 for that matter has a good bottom end. It is a Celestion designed to give more bottom end to an open back.

All three have a definite break end period.

A speaker I've wanted to try is the Hemp Dog.
_________________________
"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

Top
#2929835 - 05/29/18 06:19 AM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: CEB]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11028
Loc: Northern California
I would check into a Jensen P12Q...Fender used them back in the day so the re-issues might just fit. The demos on YT sound pretty good:



cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2929943 - 05/29/18 02:00 PM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: Larryz]
desertbluesman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4624
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
I would use an Eminence Cannabis Rex 12" speaker for any small amp. light, fat, bright yet not to ice pickeee. I also have 2 EVM 12L's heavy, but they also sound great.
_________________________
dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

Top
#2929966 - 05/29/18 04:27 PM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: desertbluesman]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6645
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
I'm not tryna steer the discussion---or hijack it from Scott--- but I notice that all the sizes mentioned are 12"...perhaps b/c of the specific amp SF mentioned.
What are opinions on using something like a 15" spkr for standard gtr range or rigs w/diff sizes combined ?
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2930002 - 05/29/18 07:59 PM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: d]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11977
Loc: St. Louis, MO
First, a 15" is not necessary from a physics standpoint to reproduce the lowest frequencies of a guitar. Off the top of my head, I think the fundamental frequency of Low E on a standard tuned guitar would be in something like the 83 Hz range. If you oversize a speaker, you sacrifice tightness (technically group delay due to damping, moving mass, etc). Also larger speakers do a worse job at reproducing the highs. So technically, you would want to go with the smallest speaker that can move enough air to reproduce the lowest frequencies. For the frequency range of a guitar, 12" happens to be the sweet spot.
_________________________
Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

Top
#2930021 - 05/29/18 09:11 PM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: J. Dan]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5143
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
First, a 15" is not necessary from a physics standpoint to reproduce the lowest frequencies of a guitar. Off the top of my head, I think the fundamental frequency of Low E on a standard tuned guitar would be in something like the 83 Hz range. If you oversize a speaker, you sacrifice tightness (technically group delay due to damping, moving mass, etc). Also larger speakers do a worse job at reproducing the highs. So technically, you would want to go with the smallest speaker that can move enough air to reproduce the lowest frequencies. For the frequency range of a guitar, 12" happens to be the sweet spot.


All very true, but that being said, the JBL 15" in my Standel Imperial XV sounds awesome on guitars, & provides all the chime one could ever ask for on single coils. Actually the low frequency response may end up having more to do with the cabinet design than the cone size. Witness all the bass rigs built around multiple 10" speakers, like the Ampeg SVT.

Thanks for all the input, guys. Plenty to keep me occupied with Google for the near future.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2930027 - 05/29/18 09:37 PM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: Scott Fraser]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11977
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Yes the box is as big a part as the speaker. Was that a sealed, vented, or open back box? I'm going to guess sealed, which would make it much tighter but reduce low end response, which you wouldn't care about with a 15 because you had plenty with a 15.

The box is actually a HIGHPASS filter as far as the speaker is concerned. This is because the back wave behind the speaker would normally cancel out the front wave. For an open back, it's all about the room and how that back wave interacts with the front based on reflections and the speed of sound. Vented/ported enclosures are very efficient. What comes out the port is in phase above and out of phase below the tuning frequency of the box. So you get a boost down to the port frequency, but roll of fast below that - 24db/oct. In a sealed box, the size of the box will dictate the resonant frequency (usually much higher) below which it rolls off at 12dB/oct (half the rate of vented, but beginning a much higher frequency)

So yes, size, design, tuning all come into play.
_________________________
Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

Top
#2930071 - 05/30/18 06:37 AM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: J. Dan]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6645
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
First, a 15" is not necessary from a physics standpoint to reproduce the lowest frequencies of a guitar. Off the top of my head, I think the fundamental frequency of Low E on a standard tuned guitar would be in something like the 83 Hz range. If you oversize a speaker, you sacrifice tightness (technically group delay due to damping, moving mass, etc). Also larger speakers do a worse job at reproducing the highs. So technically, you would want to go with the smallest speaker that can move enough air to reproduce the lowest frequencies. For the frequency range of a guitar, 12" happens to be the sweet spot.

As SF's already noted, that's all true but I have read (& seen) that some guitarists use 15" spkrs, either as their main voice or as adjuncts (although I'd have to actually look up some on-the-record examples of well-known players).

FWIW, I wonder abt the effects of diff, materials regarding cab construction...an area worth exploring ? idk
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2930226 - 05/30/18 08:29 PM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: d]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11977
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: d

FWIW, I wonder abt the effects of diff, materials regarding cab construction...an area worth exploring ? idk


That's all very well understood science. Speaking more broadly than guitar, there are sealed, bass reflex (vented), open back, transmission line, band pass, etc. in it's simplest form, the box acts as a high pass filter. Sealed boxes when coupled with the speaker (which is a basic spring and mass system physically), based in internal volume will have a resonant frequency below which the frequencies roll off at a rate of 12dB per octave. A vented box has a resonant frequency dependent on the volume as well as size and length of the vents which will determine how much of a peak there is above the resonant frequency. Those roll off at 24dB per octave but are more efficient and can have the cutoff frequency lower without over working the cone. Open backs are a factor of the wavelength of the frequency relative to the speed of sound and distance from the front wave to the back wave.

If box materials are not sufficiently rigid, energy can be lost in vibration of the panels. Likewise, based on dimensions relative to wavelengths there can be standing waves within the box generating unwanted buzzes or frequency response anomalies. Materials can be added to the inside of the box to increase the effective volume, which is generally desirable for achieving the required response while minimizing cabinet size and weights, it all ends up coming down to a balance between size/weight, and optimizing response while avoiding unwanted resonances, as well as peaks/dips in the response.
_________________________
Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

Top
#2930731 - 06/02/18 03:36 PM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: J. Dan]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24709
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
'S worth noting that, as far as I know, a 15" speaker will not fit in a bf or sf Fender Deluxe Reverb enclosure.

Might sound and feel great, though, if a Deluxe Reverb were fitted to a larger cab, and/or a head and cab arrangement; particularly if a rounder, cushier bottom and a slightly softened attack were desired.

In general, I personally love 12" speakers the most for electric guitar, finding them to have richer harmonic-overtone complexity, 'swirl' and 'shimmer' than 10" speakers, though some prefer the faster, more pronounced attack and peakier fundamental emphasis of 10" speakers. 15" speakers may take the characteristics that I perceive and appreciate in 12" speakers to even further extremes... "YMMV".
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

Top
#2930814 - 06/03/18 09:55 AM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: Scott Fraser]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24709
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Scott- How 'bout either one of these, that we'd discussed before?

Eminence Delta Pro 12A
Bass/Mid-Bass Speaker/Guitar Speaker


Originally Posted By: Loudspeakers Plus dot com
As a guitar Speaker, The Delta Pro 12A became popular as a guitar speaker through the public, Eminence didn't have anything to do with it, as an alternative to the EVM12L. It ironically has similar specs. It's clean, relatively neutral - you get out what you put in....hear more amp than speaker coloration, big low end, warm/smooth mids and highs.


And another Eminence speaker that might suit your stated needs, this one a JBL D120-like model:

Eminence Commonwealth 12 Guitar Speaker

Originally Posted By: Loudspeakers Plus dot com
Clean, warm, full, non-distorted, un-adulterated guitar tone. Coloration: Warm and rich, but also very clean and well defined. Great presence! Very full and smooth. Very little cone break-up, but likes Overdrive. Genre: All Genres.

Cast aluminum frame an aluminum dust cap. Compares favorably to JBL D120.
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

Top
#2930843 - 06/03/18 01:22 PM Re: Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb [Re: J. Dan]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6645
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
Originally Posted By: d

FWIW, I wonder abt the effects of diff, materials regarding cab construction...an area worth exploring ? idk


That's all very well understood science. Speaking more broadly than guitar, there are sealed, bass reflex (vented), open back, transmission line, band pass, etc. in it's simplest form, the box acts as a high pass filter. Sealed boxes when coupled with the speaker (which is a basic spring and mass system physically), based in internal volume will have a resonant frequency below which the frequencies roll off at a rate of 12dB per octave. A vented box has a resonant frequency dependent on the volume as well as size and length of the vents which will determine how much of a peak there is above the resonant frequency. Those roll off at 24dB per octave but are more efficient and can have the cutoff frequency lower without over working the cone. Open backs are a factor of the wavelength of the frequency relative to the speed of sound and distance from the front wave to the back wave.

If box materials are not sufficiently rigid, energy can be lost in vibration of the panels. Likewise, based on dimensions relative to wavelengths there can be standing waves within the box generating unwanted buzzes or frequency response anomalies. Materials can be added to the inside of the box to increase the effective volume, which is generally desirable for achieving the required response while minimizing cabinet size and weights, it all ends up coming down to a balance between size/weight, and optimizing response while avoiding unwanted resonances, as well as peaks/dips in the response.


Informative & thank you but ya missed my point, Dan.
I wonder abt specific materials, i.e., diff woods types & non-wood materials.
That, too, may be "well understood", even documented.
Can't blame me for looking for easy answers, can ya ?

_________________________
d=halfnote

Top


Moderator:  A String, Bluesape, myles_rose